[Strategy / Risk] Space themed 4x type game.

[Ixxl]

I have been developing this game for months now and I am at a crossroads of where to go. A lot of the core mechanics are done but every good map needs a good story and lore to help dictate the rest of the game and what the game ultimately is. The map was not really influenced by anything specific but I drew a lot of inspiration from the following:

INFLUENCES:
(this map is a mix of all of the bellow, especially board game style. I know it will not be for everyone)

- Board games (serious lack of these types of games on hive)
- 4x Games (most of them on hive are very poorly done)
- The Expanse (current favorite space drama TV / Book series)
- A love of Risk / Politics / Diplomacy style games
FYI: THERE ARE NO ALIENS - Just humans. (For now at least)

GAME PLAY:
(as of right now, there are no people units. It is all space units / spaceships, stations, etc)

Currently, a player will start with their own planet and expand from this location. They will start with little to nothing besides basic starting resources and will have to unlock / learn tech to expand off the planet and into space.
(I may make multiple versions of the map, with this being a fast version of the ideas I have in mind)

OPTIONS / DILEMMA:
As of right now, each player will start this way BUT - what would be the story behind several humans (players) starting on different earth like planets all over the universe but lack the tech to even be in that position to begin with?

So, a straight to the action game is not possible in my opinion (unless you say to hell with story) and we have to start with some sort of pre game play / event, event.

Example: All players start from " Earth " (as a shared / neutral unit) and build / grow from there.
This is the direction I have picked and I am running with right now - At the start of the game, each player will pick a faction (the pre event) and those factions will compete with each other as they expand.

QUESTIONS / ADVICE NEEDED:
OPTION ONE:
I am considering making Earth an actual location, a ground view / and the space view (main game area)
All players start first on earth, join a faction, and expand from there.

OPTION TWO:
Keep it all space units, pick a faction, expand from earth. Do some sort of earth had a civil war and that is why other factions, human colonies exist. Or some variation of this.

OPTION THREE:
To hell with story, everyone starts on their own planet and move on from here.

OVERALL, I have so many directions/versions, of this map that I can take that I am kind of stuck on where to go from here. I have to many ideas, basically.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

Spoiler

A lot has already been added to this map that goes far beyond what I mentioned here. Full colony systems, custom movement, attacking, gathering systems, nukes in space and so on. Truth is, I started this project with the idea of making a few maps. An RPG, a less board game, more live action style game, an actual adaptation of the Expanse or maybe even Star Wars themed one. Who knows. I designed the game in layers (templates) So it can be used in so many ways.

 

[Ixxl]

I thought I would give a small example of what the game currently looks like:

SCREENSHOTS:


Generic starting planet view. You come into the game controlling your first planet, Earth currently, and its surrounding zone (red square) as well as an orbiting moon.



You would then start the game by picking one of Eight factions. Each faction giving you specific +'s and -'s for the games duration.

Players would expand at this point to new systems, currently 3000+ zones, for resources and new colonies.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Might I suggest you look at Solar Conquest for inspiration, as it uses a lot of the mechanics you listed. Notably, it has planets as separate battlefields, starts with two players per planet and has an option to start at the Space Age, with all relevant technologies researched.

As for the reason for starting out slow, how about this:
The various factions all sent out a colony ship to the exoplanet(s). Every player's start building represents a colony module, with robots working on making the place suitable for human life before the colonists are awoken from cryosleep. Their respective spaceships were lost in a meteor storm (or contact with the ship was lost, etc.), and now they need to work their way back up with stored schematics and local materials. If a fast game is agreed on, the game starts at the point where the required techs are already researched and the necessary buildings are pre-built.

Earth could still be a reachable location, with the first player to make contact getting a trade agreement or some kind of bonus.

 

[Ixxl]

I am familiar with Solar Conquest. What I am making is a bit different. It plays more like a table top game without players taking turns. The game is played in real time but the action is all zone by zone (like in a board game, moving a piece from one tile to another) For example, the movement system is all triggered. You select your ship in one zone and order him to move to another zone. That ship is longer controllable until it reaches its destination. The entire map is like a checker board but with 3,400 regions. (Yes it took me weeks to make them) So, nothing against those games, I just have a different creation. More realism, physics, mechanics etc, and 10 times the polish. I thank you for your suggestion.

I also like your story idea and its kind of the idea I was thinking. I didn't want to do a Battle Star Galactic rip off of there being 12 tribes or some post apocalyptic event, or other common tropes. Something like what you are saying; lost generation ships sent out 100s of years ago. I bounced ideas around with others and they brought me right back to where I am right now, both ideas are good, why not do both, lol. I think I will stay the course and continue with the 8 factions / lost colonies/ generation ships, etc idea.

The side event of reaching earth as a soft win condition is also an awesome idea and potentially another cool thing to incorporate. Thanks for that!

 

[cleavinghammer]

What are the factions?

How about a planetary upgrade mechanic, where some research affects planets as a whole (defense, population generation, etc.) but planets can be upgraded on an individual basis. For example, a blanket upgrade increases population generation, but every planet-type has a different population limit: Pluto-like planets have a much lower limit than Earth-like planets and need a lot of individual upgrades to become habitable.

Planet types: Planets could be divided into various types that provide different amounts of various resources (e.g. gas planets provide little minerals but can support large orbital structures like shipyards, telluric planets provide minerals but can't build huge capital ships, some planets are devoted to pumping out huge amounts of people, some to research, etc.) Planets can be made uninhabitable (scorched earth, destroyed atmosphere, irradiation...), and then terraformed back into useful planets.

Linked research: Blanket upgrades and research (defense, productivity, units...) take a set amount of time, but the more research buildings (number and type of research buildings limited by planet type) you have total the less time they will take.

 

[Ixxl]

In the very first version of the map, from almost a year ago, I had exactly that. The game was designed around 4 factions, each had a key dependency built into them that made it very difficult to go to war with another faction. You would lose access to a key resources or have some other handicap. War could be profitable, but you better guarantee you win.

As far as your planet suggestions go, I already have that added . One very important aspect is the type / level of colony you can support on a planet. There are 6+ types (cant remember right now) with A class (Earth like) being the most rare. The whole map is also procedurally generated FYI and so far in my testing, another Earth like planet has only appeared once.

We have a lot of the same ideas. Glad to see I am not alone on my thinking and that there will be interest in this project.

Back to your first question: I haven't really started fleshing them out yet in the current version. The 8 factions will have some co-dependency still but not nearly as much as the very first/original map that I have stopped making in favor of the board game (current map) but there is a Pirate faction, of course, and other typical things, UN, dictatorships, etc. That's kind of the fun stuff to make so I will save a lot of it for last but its also the hard part, balancing, which will also come last.

 

[cleavinghammer]

How does income work?

Regarding planetary generation: Maybe have every player start with certain planet types guaranteed to spawn near him.

 

[Ixxl]

Planets and colonies periodically gain citizens or colonists. Each provides supply but will also pay taxes in the form of credits, aka gold. Gold will be used specifically for anything non construction; research and upgrades especially.

Resources aka lumber, will be used specifically for construction. Ships, stations, etc. A small amount will be auto generated from planet and colony ownership as well as some buildings.

Influence, aka supply / food, works as normal but will also act as points to influence. Spending influence for diplomacy, setting policy, and trade etc and a voting system I would like to add. It is also intended as an addition limitation to hold players back from massing cheap units. You will need lots of open influence to do certain things.

I am not opposed to using multi boards but I have never liked them and they look even uglier with 1.29. There will be at least one other resource for very advanced tech / construction but I have a whole other system for that other than using a multi board.

UPDATE:
I decided I am going to go with planet/land units and started implementing a template for each players starting planet. There is something I really wanted to try and might be able to add into the game now with land based locations. Anyways, I will post screenshots later and other updates. Thanks everyonr for throwing out all the ideas guys!

 

[cleavinghammer]

An idea for taking planets from orbit: the planet itself has no attack, is ethereal (so only specialized units and orbital bombardments affect them) and its population is represented by mana.
Only certain ships have the ability to take planets by basically manaburning them into submission, representing them dropping off troops on the planet's surface. Similarly, these ships have a Magic attack and Feedback (both renamed as appropriate), but dropping troops goes faster. The planet switches once population is below a certain threshold. Can be combined with the land units by dropping reinforcements into the battle, but this cancels the switching mechanism.
The planet-takers have no mana regen, and must replenish their troops by going to a friendly planet and taking mana from them. One upgrade gives them very slow regen thanks to cloning or cyborg tech.

Slaver ships that remove smaller amounts of mana from planets, and can then be used to refuel the planet takers or give it to newly-claimed planets.

Orbital bombardment spells that cause damage to the planet and population (standard bombings) or just the population (virus bombs).

Asteroid mining: Asteroids can be mined for construction resources, or fitted with an engine to become a one-use weapon against capital ships and planets (the more resource left, the more damage it does).

Destroying a planet: possible, but time-consuming. It leaves construction resources as powerups and an asteroid field.


When it's up for testing, have the pirates regularly spawn units (based on the player's current tech level so you can see what works well).

 

[Ixxl]

Lots of interesting ideas, cleavinghammer. I have many similar systems, but all of them a little different.

I like your idea of using mana to represent population and I think I will test that when I get off work.

Mana is is already partially used as resource for construction. I'll try and explain: In my game lumber is simply called "resources" so I am using mana as a resource for "resources" on some ships. It is also how piracy works kill a ship, you get "resources" equal to that ships mana.

I have a lot of systems already made in the game and didn't want to spoil all of them until people can play it but I love some of these ideas and glad I already have a lot of similar ones.

It's awesome to see a ship launch an asteroid at a planet! Although nukes in the game look pretty cool right now too.

In the far future that's exactly what you would do. Why waste nukes when you can skill shot an asteroid into a planet. Trying to keep a certain level of realism into the game and when I started it, this was one of my priorities.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Although there are some who disagree as to the cost-effectiveness of the asteroids.

Well, since it would only work on planets (boarding actions are presumably not part of the game) you could keep using ship mana as its own resource. The SC2 map I got the idea from (and whose name I do not remember) had planetary (Protoss) shields used in determining when they switched sides, but with the mana=pop idea the implications of giving planets Mana Shield are highly disturbing.

Some more ideas:
Planetary Shields: Turns the planet invulnerable as long as the shield is up. Shields can fail through damage or sabotage.
Asteroid Shield: Uses tractor beams to hold an asteroid in front of a capital ship to absorb hits (or throw it at something).

Planetary Bombardment: Causes AoE damage with friendly fire at a random location on the planet.
Precision Bombardment: Deals less AoE damage but will actually hit something. Alternately, using it on a planet takes one of its associated structures offline for a while.
Drop Pods: Deploys a small number of land troops on the target planet.
Orbital Takeoff: Deploys aircraft on the target planet.

Possible game mechanic: different damage types for different targets: Kinetic does horrifying damage at long range but keeps going and deal friendly fire, Explosives have shorter range and enemy-only AoE, Lasers have short range and high attack speed, and Planetary Siege (the aforementioned Magic) hurts planets.

 

[Wark]

with the mana=pop idea the implications of giving planets Mana Shield are highly disturbing.

I lol'd at this pretty hard (dark sense of humor).
I REALLY like the idea of another take on space strategy. It's been a while since I played one that does things right. The idea of ethereal planets to mitigate ship-to-ship damage is creative.

 

[Ixxl]

Haha, I chuckled at that too.
There will be some sort of planetary bombardment and landing system but first I have to create the locations. So here is where I am at, and would love some serious input because I kind of don't like the direction this is going. I will explain.

Original Idea:
Option A: Keep the game how it was (before this post) and keep it all space based.

Option B: Keep things as they are currently with a simple location for each planet / colony, for invasions. buildings, etc. <----- We are here

Option C: When I first made this post, this is what was in the back of my minded and what I really wanted to try. Earth was a small zone divided into 3 or 4 sections, resource area, airport area, residential area, and the headquarters type area. All players start in a random area, pre start of the space portion of the game. Each player is a "Senator" and has to run around the map collecting X (can be anything) in a small mini game. X gives you credits and at the end of the mini game a vote is launched. Players vote for a President with the player collecting the most gold getting extra votes. I wont go into further detail here about this idea yet.

Spoiler

I have a lot more thought up after this and I can not understate how much is already designed and planned into this map as far as space systems go. I have a ton of ideas for character/land based systems and creative things I could add to this game. I am seriously putting in a lot of effort to make a very polished game, complete with physics (where possible) and attention to detail, realism, and creating a rich atmosphere where choices matter and actions have consequences. This is why I said I could so many versions of the game based off of what I have already. This idea is ripe for a space RPG!

PROs and CONs:
Option A:
This is the easiest and a lot of the systems for this are already made. The whole idea and concept for the game was meant to mostly be a space combat and diplomacy game. But deep in serious strategy, the whole board game element. Problem is, when trying to keep the game as realistic as possible to how things would work in real life, it start to feel hollow without characters and story behind the reasoning and logic of the game.

Option B:
I started thinking, how would all of this work if it was in real life. Bombing a planet is a bit of an all or none strategy. Like I mentioned before, all of the factions are meant to be somewhat codependent. In this game, bombing the planet would mean potentially killing your own team/faction and also making the planet potentially useless. Also, if the object was to just kill the "leader" you wouldn't bomb a whole planet. Likewise, where would a leader hide? Nothing will stop a small rock flying at you! So naturally, the only place to hide would be in secret among high population. Collateral damage. High death tolls and lots of innocent civilians killed. Turn support agains tthe attacker, etc. So I started making terrain based on that idea.





BUT - If i did this, I would still need "game play" areas where you do stuff, resource, airport/spaceport, HQ areas, etc. And that's just getting farther and farther away from what the majority of the game actually is, a space game. Not to mention, it will start eating up valuable game space. Right now, 12 players plus at least 2 colonies each takes away 1/4 of the map at least. I want space to stay huge / travel times long.

Option C:
I like this idea lot personally but it has the most problems. It also has the most potential. The more I add that is non space related - the more systems I have to be changed or modified or scrapped entirely. For example, right click is disable in the game for most things. You cant have a board map if a player can just right click and move wherever. Because of this, a lot of things have to be triggered with other triggers to prevent abuse.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, this will slow down an already very slow game even more. If you look at my profile - I have never posted any of my creations - the reason why... they are mostly all slow games that I only play with friends.

TL;DR; This is all a work in progress but I am set on adding land locations. No going back on that now (troop landings are too fun). Just how in depth I want to go with it is the issue. WITHOUT - having to redesign too much if I ever want to get to a playable demo.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Well, "realism" is going to cause problems. Yes, space is big, but if it takes more than thirty seconds to get from one place to another I can guarantee there's going to be people complaining about it. And if it's mostly empty it's going to get boring fast.

The "don't destroy the planet" thing could be a mechanic: you have access to several types of bombs, but are of small enough size that the planet can take it (much like wars today don't involve slinging nukes and calling it a day). Actually using the big ones requires you to rebuild the planet afterwards if you want to make use of it, and so expensive it'd be an endgame strategy.

How about all leaders are on a designated neutral territory with all diplomacy and non-automated trade happening there, and attacking this territory automatically turns everyone else against you (and has a good chance of getting your leader killed) and spawns a big pirate wave headed towards you, so you need to be truly certain that killing off the enemy leadership is worth the sudden difficulty spike.

 

[Ixxl]

It is very slow - from farthest corner to corner, it takes about 15/20 minutes.
HOWEVER...
There is no need to A, ever want to do that in a game usually; B, The game is about expanding outwards from your position but after a point (very easily and quickly achieved) there is little need to do so, except for wanting a new planet / colony OR if you are at war with a far away planet. Being at war with that planet has a lot of risk so unless its personal, you wouldn't bother unless you know you can win. So yes, although the distance is large, it is mitigated by other aspects of the game; trade, diplomacy, and the fact that I don't need to send my ships if I can just launch nukes or an asteroid, but again, risk /reward. Mutual assured destruction and all.

As the game progresses, jump engines / warp gates are a thing that players can research, so there will be some instant travel as well. I haven't added this yet though. In any case - its a randomly generated map so there will be reasons and incentives to play nice and explore if someone wants to - the downside is it will take time in the beginning.

Spoiler

I like the idea of a player being able to say eff you guys, I will travel so far away, you'll never see me again... going back to a generation ships type of situation; and resettle a new world. Even better, what if said player, starting from scratch finds an amazing planet, builds a massive fleet, researches jump engines and then warps in and slaughters everyone. Its possibilities like this, why I want the map to be huge.

The reason why I wanted it originally to be all players on Planet earth was to balance out the game speed, slower start but also more of the action up front. Your last point is exactly how the game is supposed to play, always competing but interconnected with everyone else. Makes for a lot of risk / reward but with dire consequences for yourself or everyone else if you play poorly or do something drastic.

This game is a WIP - things will be tuned down for sure once I have something testable.

EDIT: I just arrived at work and on my phone now but during the drive I think I figured it all out. I was stuck on so many ideas and versions of the game I couldn't see all the answers. Then I realised I have a good system in another map of mine that solves most of my problems. I'll post details later.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Here's a thought: Make the warp gates part of that codependency mechanic by making them neutral-allied once built. If a player ends up going PvE, they don't get to use the warp gate network unless they take it over. If they have the tech, they can build their own gates which won't switch over, but this involves a lot of time and resources. The tech to build them is shared, so for example, there are 12 separate upgrades needed to build gates but two allies only need to research 6 each, to encourage alliances.

Also, jump interdictors that prevent jumping over a large area (the jumping unit is automatically booted to the edge of the interdictor's AoE, or is stunned, or some other undesirable effect.

Detection: Passive and Active detection: passive detection is for smaller range (basically covers units with high sight range and True Sight), active detection has a much bigger range (things like Far Sight and Dust of Appearance), but the scanned area is shown to all players.

Building capture: Like a channeled Charm for buildings where a space building is occupied and taken over. Channeling time depends on target's HP (max and current).