Soul/Vault Idea - Thoughts/Suggestions?

[S0ulseeker]

What's your thought on allowing players to re-random one stat on a soul for a price? The re-rolled stat would have slightly lower stat multipliers so a legit soul would still be superior and it would change the souls level back to level 1 so you would have to relevel it. You would only be allowed to re-random a single stat on a soul and once you select which stat you want to change you can pay to re-roll that stat again but the cost to do so increases and that is the ONLY stat that you will ever be able to re-roll on to change its stats the other ones will no longer be able to be changed.

-My thought breakdown-

Green souls (2 random stats):
Cost: 2,000g to change 1 stat. The other stat will forever be unchangeable.
-Cost to change the stat a 2nd time goes up to 2,400g (20% increase)
-Cost to change the stat a 3rd time goes up to 2,880g
- etc. etc.

Blue souls (3 random stats):
Cost: 7,500g + 5MC to change 1 stat. The other two stats will forever be unchangeable.
-Cost to change the stat a 2nd time goes up to 9,000g + 6MC (20% increase)
-Cost to change the stat a 3rd time goes up to 10,800g + 7MC rounded
- etc. etc.

Legendary souls (3 random stats + Aura) - [Auras can NEVER be changed]
Cost 10,000g + 5MC + item dropped off D4 or new world bosses
-Cost to change the stat a 2nd time goes up to 12,000g + 6MC (20% increase) + 1 item dropped off D4 or new world bosses (this item shouldn't go up towards the increased price)
- Cost to change the stat a 3rd time goes up to 14,400g + 7MC rounded + 1 item


As stated earlier the newly randomed ability will have weakened stat multipliers so if a level 1 blue soul gave for example:
+0.1% Str from items
+0.1% SP from Items
+0.2% Fire damage

The changed Soul would be:
+0.08% Int from items (Changed soul stat down from 0.1% to 0.08%)
+0.1% SP from items
+0.2% Fire damage

As a result of changing the souls stat not only would the cost go up if you wanted to change the int on this soul again ( the other two would be unchangeable) but the soul would revert back to level 1 had it been a higher level soul initially.


Overall:

I think this would be a great addition to the current system. A straight up soul with all the stats you want would still always be 100% superior so farming for a legit soul would still be encouraged. It adds a substantial gold sink to the game. It still requires you to level the soul again & you still need to find a soul with 2 stats you want with the right aura (for a legendary) on high end game which still might take a while so it still encourages soul farming on that regard too.

EDIT: I think a list somewhere in the vault of what potential stats a stat can change into would be beneficial so people can have an idea what they are rolling towards

 

[BoxOfFaith]

With such a steep cost to reroll a stat I don't see the purpose in weakening its multiplier. Even if you repick scum your way into getting the stat you want, its still a hefty cost of farming resources.

Either way, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea .

 

[S0ulseeker]

It's not a substantial weakening and the value between the differences could be closed more, but the way I see it it's more of a temp place holder until you find the perfect soul you're waiting and searching for. It's going to take a LONG time to wait for a soul with the exact 4 stats you are looking for (on a legendary soul) to drop and to have something that's almost as great is a great substitute. Once that soul FINALLY does drop for you you'll be like "holy shit, yes finally!" and you increase 0.02% in power but feel like such a boss doing so.

Plus the important thing about having a diminished affect on a altered soul is it devalues souls as a whole if you don't do that. Before too long no one will need souls because they will have farmed the one they are looking for. There should a smidge of luck involved in getting that perfect random soul that gives you just that little bit of edge in my opinion

 

[Ihazdialup]

Theres a problem with having a gold/mc cost because Souls save to your account instead of each character, so you can keep repicking a char with 50k gold and 100 mc and eventually scum your way to your desired stat without really spending gold

 

[S0ulseeker]

Shoot I guess I overlooked that lol. You also have to consider though just because someone doesn't get the ideal stat they were looking for it maybe still an upgrade for them compared to what they had so maybe you'd end up keeping it and still end up trying a second time on changing it. It still sinks some gold. And this is why the decreased modifier is a must for this to work. That way even if people are abusing the system it still wouldn't grant them the best soul.

However having said that, looking at alternative methods:

What if changing a stat on a soul prevents you from repicking the rest of the game. That way it would at least sink some gold one one of your chars if you want to keep the soul


What if the prices were exchanged somehow to a vault type currency (perhaps food) where say 10,000g + MCs = 1 vault currency and exchanging currency would 'force' a save on vault/hero after a warning. Likewise every time you purchase something with vault currency. The vault currency would be saved via vault code. Granted you could just make a copy of your original code, but those looking to abuse systems will do it regardless.


Or maybe some other way to implement it where the gold /mc isn't the deciding factor. Zwiebel mentioned a while back some kind of random dungeon thing he was talking about maybe adding where you play as a lvl1 and have to find the exit in a random dungeon before you can teleport out and any loot you aquire in the dungeon you keep on your real char if you can get out alive. Maybe one of the treasures could be the soul respec slot

Anyone else have any ideas how to implement it if abuse is a concern?

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

For any new system regarding souls to be unabusable, it would have to be a new currency/counter that can't be bought with gold/MC and is saved on the vault code. One way would be to require releasing a soul to reset another (of equal rarity).

I don't like the idea of re-randoming soul stats though, even if it's weaker it devalues getting those premium souls. The randomness is the best part of this system. I understand your frustration in farming souls (at this point I've farmed over 30 legendaries but only 3 of them had good combos), but having just this to grind doesn't hurt since they can drop all over the place.

 

[Hawajska]

I'm afraid, it will be easier to farm new soul than farm mats for stat change..
It may be good alternative.. for those who have too much "cash", but if rerolled stat goes weaker it makes all this cash-farming kinda pointless...


I think it would be better to also add option, to use fresh soul as reroll stat toker.
For example:
u have Red soul, with
-str (bad)
-spx2 (good)
-aura ele dmg% (good)

Instead of farming 50 red souls x 500 boss kills, you could use freshly picked red soul,
for reseting 1 stat. (strenght in this case)
It will take few red souls.. few rolls... but in the end u will get (intellect)


Fair effort for this resoult. (remember u sacrifice red(unknow stats) soul

 

[ALEXz407]

A bit of criticism...

Adding a gamble with worse rewards on top of a gamble? Plus vulnerable to save/load scumming.
And why you want "reward" player for spending time for farming with reduced randomized stats? It doesn't feel relevant.

From technical side Hawajska's suggestion looks best: player can not save/load exploit it, it keep soul progression, and still is a some kind of gamble.


I suggest to add more managing thing to soul vault. Currently it's have "gamble + time spending" formula. And when you acquire a better soul, all your investments just go to trash, because you must level up it from a scratch.
So, I bring to your attention:

Soul Link
Mysterious ritual twists two souls together and then divides them back. This weaken souls, but transform their powers.

Rules are simple:
- You can swap 1 stat between two souls of same type (defensive/offensive).
- Sum of souls experience divided by 3 and set to both souls.
- Swap have some restrictions:

Green		Blue		Red
Stat 1	\-/	Stat 1*	\-/	Stat 1*
Stat 2	/-\	Stat 2*	/-\	Stat 2*
		Stat 3	<>	Stat 3
				Aura

*Can not be same with Stat 3

Calculation examples

For example, you have level 50 [ STR, STR, INT ] Blue Soul.
With Soul Link you can exchange INT <> AP with another 50 [ ASPD, SP, AP ] Blue Soul.
After that you will have 40 [ STR, STR, AP ] Blue Soul and another 40 [ ASPD, SP, INT ] Blue Soul.
Math: ( 127400 + 127400 ) / 3 = 84933 exp for each Soul

Or you want to make it pure SP soul and combine it with 1 [ SP, DEX ] Green Soul and 1 [ SP, AP ] Green Soul.
From first iteration you will have 28 [ STR, SP, INT ] Blue Soul and 28 [ STR, DEX ] Green Soul.
And after second iteration: 16 [ SP, SP, INT ] Blue Soul and 16 [ STR, AP ] Green Soul ( don't forget about 28 Green Soul from first iteration ).
Math:
( 127400 + 0 ) / 3 = 42467 exp
( 42467 + 0 ) / 3 = 14156 exp

And restrictions examples:
50 [ STR, STR, INT ] Blue & 1 [ INT, DEX ] Green. You can not swap STR <> INT, because INT is in Stat 3 slot.
50 [ STR, AP, INT ] Blue & 30 [ CR, CR.DMG, STR ]. You can not swap INT <> STR, because STR is in Stat 1 slot.

Data for calculations

Level | Required experience
1 | 0
2 | 200
3 | 500
4 | 900
5 | 1400
6 | 2000
7 | 2700
8 | 3500
9 | 4400
10 | 5400
11 | 6500
12 | 7700
13 | 9000
14 | 10400
15 | 11900
16 | 13500
17 | 15200
18 | 17000
19 | 18900
20 | 20900
21 | 23000
22 | 25200
23 | 27500
24 | 29900
25 | 32400
26 | 35000
27 | 37700
28 | 40500
29 | 43400
30 | 46400
31 | 49500
32 | 52700
33 | 56000
34 | 59400
35 | 62900
36 | 66500
37 | 70200
38 | 74000
39 | 77900
40 | 81900
41 | 86000
42 | 90200
43 | 94500
44 | 98900
45 | 103400
46 | 108000
47 | 112700
48 | 117500
49 | 122400
50 | 127400

- This will add more depth to Soul system and ability to make nice combinations with enough time. (with random you can acquire nice souls right from game start, or never... whatever)
- It's save/load exploit safe
- Adds more value to green souls - you can take 2 stats from them, but for 3 stat you must craft blue soul anyway
- Can't be overused, because of exp penalty

 

[Zwiebelchen]

As was already pointed out: any resource used for anything in the vault must be stored to the vault code or save-scumming can (and will) happen.

This is why souls can not be bought or crafted and are drops only and can not be saved until learned.


However, regarding the problem that it's hard to get good souls, please remember that the soul system and vault itself is pretty much still in a beta state. I haven't decided about how the system will be improved in the future; however, there will definitely be more ways to acquire new souls in future content.

For example, I could imagine souls being awarded by random treasure chests or repeatable quests, just to give players a way to "farm" souls with higher effectivity than just slaying random monsters 24/7.
There might also be "unique" named souls with predefined stat combinations, etc.
But this is more a soonish thing to be added than a thing that will actually come in any of the foreseeable updates.


Mounts, 1.2C and the Ancient Cave have a much higher priority than this.

 

[Manipulation]

I'm afraid, it will be easier to farm new soul than farm mats for stat change..
It may be good alternative.. for those who have too much "cash", but if rerolled stat goes weaker it makes all this cash-farming kinda pointless...


I think it would be better to also add option, to use fresh soul as reroll stat toker.
For example:
u have Red soul, with
-str (bad)
-spx2 (good)
-aura ele dmg% (good)

Instead of farming 50 red souls x 500 boss kills, you could use freshly picked red soul,
for reseting 1 stat. (strenght in this case)
It will take few red souls.. few rolls... but in the end u will get (intellect)


Fair effort for this resoult. (remember u sacrifice red(unknow stats) soul

damn my bad english...

If you are saying what i think then i was thinking the same
Like: You have a red soul with 1-2 stats on it that you dont really want. So when u drop another red soul, you use that red soul to re-roll one stat from your "base" soul.

Also.
1)The re-roll must be possible after you activate the soul (maybe its the one you were waiting for all your life!! so why waste it?).
2)After the re-roll the soul becomes lvl 1.
3)It should be possible to use for re-roll use any soul in your valut, no matter how lvl it is or how long its been there or if it has been re-rolled itself.