Should I Still Use WIDGETIZER

[FhelZone]

The tool that increases loading time by converting the objects into SLKs. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to use widgetizer especially in the upcoming patch 1.29

 

[Marcos_M]

Why wouldn't be a good idea? btw, it DECREASES, not increases, otherwise it would be pointless

 

[Xonok]

I'd say it's better than ever now that the map size limit is so much more generous.

 

[Daffa]

Decrease load time, increase map size.

 

[Wareditor]

Using widgetizer is a very bad idea. it breaks maps and make it so when you play a widgetized map you will probably desync next time you play another map. So you have to restart your wacraft 3 each time you play a widgetized map.

 

[FhelZone]

Sorry, type in increase instead of decrease. Anyway, I have played with my old map and it does not have problems with desyncs. I'm just wondering maybe something messed up in the new patch. Seems safe right now though.

 

[Wareditor]

Using widgetizer is unsafe.
The problem will not occur when you are only playing your map but when you switch from a widgetized map to almost any other map in multiplayer.
The bigger is the map, the most chance you have to desycn. The desync comes from cache collision as far as I know.
This is why most big maps will tell you to restart Warcraft 3 before playing them.
Restarting Warcraft 3 clear the cache.

Basically people using widgetizer are making playing in multiplayer a pain.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

The benefits outweigh the costs, the u9 one seems to be the best for this. Even has an option that I still don't know how it works which lets maps use more then one core finally, maybe it doesn't work however my maps and others I know about which use this run far faster with this program which is basically a widgetizer.

 

[FhelZone]

Using widgetizer is unsafe.
The problem will not occur when you are only playing your map but when you switch from a widgetized map to almost any other map in multiplayer.
The bigger is the map, the most chance you have to desycn. The desync comes from cache collision as far as I know.
This is why most big maps will tell you to restart Warcraft 3 before playing them.
Restarting Warcraft 3 clear the cache.

Basically people using widgetizer are making playing in multiplayer a pain.

Will this happen no matter what settings? I currently create hundreds of levels for abilities so I thought widgetizing the map would help loading time, since I would prefer abilities preloaded than lag on cast.

 

[Wareditor]

What is the use of so many abilities level?

You can use Vexorian's Optimizer. It's 100% safe and will improve your load time.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Widigitzer has some bugs. Some of its settings will remove all destructables on the map and such.

Generally I would only recommend looking into using it if your map suffers from long load times. It is not a tool you want to use without good reason.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Vexorian's optimizer won't do anything for the object editor load time. Ultimate Map SLK Optimizer-10 seconds,Make your map Smaller And Faster - Wc3C.net Once you find the right options for this, just keep trying to use it until it works.

To make vex's work, you need a custom common.j and blizzard.j in the tweaks section.

 

[FhelZone]

What is the use of so many abilities level?

You can use Vexorian's Optimizer. It's 100% safe and will improve your load time.

I'm developing a custom hero map, as I have previously

Widigitzer has some bugs. Some of its settings will remove all destructables on the map and such.

Generally I would only recommend looking into using it if your map suffers from long load times. It is not a tool you want to use without good reason.

Used it previously and it seemed to have not caused any bug with the destructibles.

Vexorian's optimizer won't do anything for the object editor load time. Ultimate Map SLK Optimizer-10 seconds,Make your map Smaller And Faster - Wc3C.net Once you find the right options for this, just keep trying to use it until it works.

To make vex's work, you need a custom common.j and blizzard.j in the tweaks section.

Should it yield better results than Widgetizer?

 

[Wareditor]

@FhelZone You didn't answer the question? Why would you need so many levels?
Usually, so many levels is hardly justified and is generally a sign of bad design.

 

[FhelZone]

They bind properly to the QWER hotkeys

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Should it yield better results than Widgetizer?

Yes, it will.

 

[Xonok]

Well, binding properly is around 7x abilities as normal, but does not explain the hundreds of levels.
I can give a tip for loading times though. A single letter in any object editor text costs as much as an entire number field, so most of the loading time most likely comes from ability descriptions. You can use ctrl-D in the object editor if you're unsure whether a specific field is text or not. It shows everything the way it really is in the map file.
Also, abilities are only loaded when they are actually put on a unit on the map, meaning that the loading time only applies to initial units. Abilities loaded later will only cause a lag spike once a unit with them is actually on the map. You can manipulate this to have things load whenever you want instead of all at first. You can basically choose when the lag spike happens and if you reduce the amount of text in object editor you can also reduce it.
All this without any external tool and without any technical issues.

 

[FhelZone]

Yes, it will.

I shall test that then

Well, binding properly is around 7x abilities as normal, but does not explain the hundreds of levels.
I can give a tip for loading times though. A single letter in any object editor text costs as much as an entire number field, so most of the loading time most likely comes from ability descriptions. You can use ctrl-D in the object editor if you're unsure whether a specific field is text or not. It shows everything the way it really is in the map file.
Also, abilities are only loaded when they are actually put on a unit on the map, meaning that the loading time only applies to initial units. Abilities loaded later will only cause a lag spike once a unit with them is actually on the map. You can manipulate this to have things load whenever you want instead of all at first. You can basically choose when the lag spike happens and if you reduce the amount of text in object editor you can also reduce it.
All this without any external tool and without any technical issues.

Dummy abilities and loads of level up
Well I choose to put the strain to the loading time instead, the game completely freezes for a second if I add something out of nowhere.

 

[Xonok]

Depending on how the levelup works you might be able to reduce the text by only defining lvl 1 text. Depends a lot on the abilities though, I guess.

 

[FhelZone]

Downside is the player would be computing a lot more. I made description for every level as detailed as they can be. So I guess this is a pretty reasonable case to use something that would throw data into SLK for loading enhancements.

 

[Xonok]

Well, if you literally see no other way out, then I guess it can't be helped.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Used it previously and it seemed to have not caused any bug with the destructibles.

Yet for dozens of people it has. It really depends on what doodads and what destructables are used.

Dummy abilities and loads of level up

Use trigger scaling instead. That way 1 level for abilities is all that is needed. Simplified game design, easier to use and easier for WC3 to load.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

If U9 and vexorian's together don't improve your map load time, I would really like to try it out myself and see that @topic starter.

Yet for dozens of people it has. It really depends on what doodads and what destructables are used.
Use trigger scaling instead. That way 1 level for abilities is all that is needed. Simplified game design, easier to use and easier for WC3 to load.

JASS isn't able to do everything object editor can, not even 1.29 offers that yet.

 

[pick-a-chew]

Widgetizer is acceptable if you tell people your map is widgetized. Purely anecdotal but i feel like people prefer to steer away from widgetized maps just because of the hassle they cause players i.e. having to restart WC3 AND having to remember to restart WC3 (nothing more irritating than starting a game only to have 2-3 people desync at start because they played a widgetized map prior). Generally it doesn't take long for people to realize what maps corrupt their cache, and once they do, they may avoid playing it (i know i do ).

But i have to agree with the sentiment here, abilities with a hundred levels are usually only ever used for applying a scaling effect/stat (e.g. 1-100 armour) and should be used sparingly. If you have a spell like holy light with 10+ levels, and one copy for Q, W, E and R and you're doing that for many hero abilities, then stop right there, because that's exactly how not to use the world editor in a sustainable way.

 

[mr po]

Is DOTA widgetized? The map seems to have lots of SLK files and usually don't desync.

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

Oh god please don't, that app is awful. It causes desyncs -> into the trash it goes.
Dota's not widgetized.
I don't like having to restart WC3 after each game I play. Then there's always someone who forgot to do it and desyncs and ruins the game anyways.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Yeah use the u9 and vex instead, u9 does something similar to widgetizer however way better. Dota has to be widgetized because its object editor data is in slk files? Though I actually don't know what widgetized means besides storing object editor data files into .slk's.

Edit: Which map optimizer to use?

 

[EdgeOfChaos]

I'm no expert on this either, all I know is that widgetized maps desync players if you play it more than one time, and DotA does not have that behavior.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

I do know that by definition dota is widgetized so what seems to be assumed isn't correct.

edit: just use u9 or other stuff and not the actual program called widgetizer.

 

[mr po]

u9 works? It still seem very buggy.

 

[Lt_Hawkeye]

You can try this one instead Wc3 Ultimate Optimizer: Better version of Widgetizer?.