Shining Waters (v. 1.04b)

[Zenonoth]

Perfect Terrain..I must say, +Rep

 

[-Kobas-]

Ok lets see...

Things that I like:

1st - Rain + water terrain
2nd - Balanced
3th - Gold Mines have (15.000 + 12.500 exp ones)
4th - Gold Mines x2
5th - Large number of Neutral Hostile Creeps

Things that I don't like:

1st - Tavern is in water -.-
2nd - Mercenary Camp is in water
3th - Some trees are in water
4th - Map size is larger than playable map
Map Size:160x160
Playable Map Size:87x90
Just resize map!
5th - Shadows aren't calculated
6th - Terrain is empty at some places
7th - Cobble Path tile isn't best choice for random terrain like mud or grass, use it for road!
8th - Add Sky
9th - Only 12 Neutral Passive units -.-
10th - No birds, bats
11th - Neutral Hostile units don't drop items when they die

Word or 2 to Author:

All else look ok! Fix that above and mark will be far more better for now only 1/5. Maybe monsters/creeps can be changed a little (how can mud golem, troll priest and bandit, guard together Gold Mine -.^)
Btw pictures can help you map to become famous why not to add some???

2/5

EDIT: Sry I found birds (12) but it's still small number, and they are placed randomly so that don't make a large difference!
Also items will drop!

This will change mark from 1 to 1.5 -> 2/5
Sorry once again!

 

[Hawk]

Someone is looking for reputation...

 

[-Kobas-]

Well no, terrain is perfect but on some places!
It is simple for me ofc but Zenonoth find it perfect! And that is ok each user has his own opinion!

 

[Hawk]

Sorry for that i think it wont be mad...Yap nice terrain

 

[Lifee_72]

Good terrain +rep

 

[R.Gaming_Strike]

I will quote:

"1st - Tavern is in water -.-
2nd - Mercenary Camp is in water "

Dude have you seen the map called Twisted Meadows?
I mean if youre so realistic go and play Crysis or whatever...

"3th - Some trees are in water"

4th - Map size is larger than playable map
Map Size:160x160
Playable Map Size:87x90
Just resize map!

I dont give a shit - its my way of terraining/creating maps

you still play on playable and nothing would change - just the fact that the map will lose some kb´s

5th - Shadows aren't calculated

they are - tard

6th - Terrain is empty at some places

You should still see your units on the ground and not bushes all the way

ITS A F*CKING MEELE MAP!!!

7th - Cobble Path tile isn't best choice for random terrain like mud or grass, use it for road!

First point some people could agree

8th - Add Sky

Its a meelemap made for league gaming - none of meelemaps have a sky
JUST OPEN A NORMAL BLIZZARD MEELEMAP AND WATCH THAT THEY DONT USE SKYBOXES!!

9th - Only 12 Neutral Passive units -.-

You want that I spam them?
TM have 35 critters - and its a 4 player map - so 13-17 are enough for a map - also they are nasty if you spam them - you know they block

10th - No birds, bats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj2kGpKZV6E

Title of this song!

11th - Neutral Hostile units don't drop items when they die [/COLOR]

Should that be a fucking joke?

If you mean creeps - they actualy do drop items -
If you mean critters -then youre a fucking idiot.

Word or 2 to Author:

All else look ok! Fix that above and mark will be far more better for now only 1/5. Maybe monsters/creeps can be changed a little (how can mud golem, troll priest and bandit, guard together Gold Mine -.^)
Btw pictures can help you map to become famous why not to add some???

1/5 Vote for Rejection

Word or 2 to you guy:

First of all - do not fucking comment meele maps if you have 0 !!! knowledge in wc3 gaming - real wc3 - no Dota shit or any fun-maps

Second - So if you say that trolls and bandits cant guard together - then how the heck human people ride dragon hawks??? - dude its a fantasy game...

Thrid - if you think that youre a terrainer - then go to the terrain section and comment there - but if you want to mess a meelemap with a terrain-screen-shot then you can also compare a golf with pizza - no sense to compare both.

And some last words dedicated to all the hivers out here - If you think that a league ready map deserve 1/5 - die. Just die. Sure you all are allowed to critique - its even important - but If you found so many points (no matter that theyre true or smth.) you could just give a rating like
4/5



Ah - and last word -
you know what make a meele map famous ? If you present them on sites like WcReplays or let them be played by good players.
Even BoX - whos the first in american ladder (pardonmyfernch) played on this map and he found it good

 

[Zenonoth]

Gentlemen, let us please settle down, we don't want this map to be a drama-thread now, would we? the map is really good for a melee map, I never looked for reputation, but it's good to appreciate someone's work knowing that he put some real hard work within it. And just to leave a remark if anyone would care, Kobas already has made a melee map.

 

[Septimus]

Dude have you seen the map called Twisted Meadows?
I mean if youre so realistic go and play Crysis or whatever...

some ppl want exact reality while some want fantasy. well, you cannot expect to please everybody. In this case, you want fantasy and he want realism.

"3th - Some trees are in water"

It depends on what kind of tree was used for the terrain actually. XD

so, kobas might be wrong unless you use the wrong type of tree. XD

I dont give a shit - its my way of terraining/creating maps

you still play on playable and nothing would change - just the fact that the map will lose some kb´s

If you could reduce the map kb, then try to reduce it. You can do it via scenario > size and camera bounds > modify map bounds.

everybody have their own way of creating map, but if we could reduce/remove inperfection. Why not?

6th - Terrain is empty at some places

You should still see your units on the ground and not bushes all the way

ITS A F*CKING MEELE MAP!!!

actually it depends on the location. both side are right and nobody wrong at this issues.

for example, not every forest was thick with bushes such as tundra forest.. perhaps?

First point some people could agree

glad to see that both of you agree.

Its a meelemap made for league gaming - none of meelemaps have a sky
JUST OPEN A NORMAL BLIZZARD MEELEMAP AND WATCH THAT THEY DONT USE SKYBOXES!!

Both side are right, but kobas point seem to be much valid if we think it this way.

"If we could make it better, why not make it much better than blizzard map?"

You want that I spam them?
TM have 35 critters - and its a 4 player map - so 13-17 are enough for a map - also they are nasty if you spam them - you know they block

Everybody have their own opinion of min/max of critter, it depends on the size of the map as well. Larger map might need more critter.

But you are right about spam issues as well.

Should that be a fucking joke?

If you mean creeps - they actualy do drop items -
If you mean critters -then youre a fucking idiot.

I suggest you to cut off at trolling.

And some last words dedicated to all the hivers out here - If you think that a league ready map deserve 1/5 - die. Just die. Sure you all are allowed to critique - its even important - but If you found so many points (no matter that theyre true or smth.) you could just give a rating like
4/5

The rating are given based on how the user feel about it, even though some of it gives an rather overkill rating due to their strictness and quality standard.

from what i see, it look like kobas was very strict in terrain standard.

Oh - do that... Then Ill delete my acc here on Hive cuz most users are complete idiots.

You're welcome to do it, nobody forces you anyway.

As far as I see, kobas does not troll and neither flame while you did.

You cannot expect all comment to be positive all the time even though you disagree with it.

Ok I might have overreacted - but its really annoying to get 2/5 (now) even If the best mappers of the wc3 scene gave a good critique

different place, differ standard.. that is 1 thing i guarantee you.

But I noticed that he made a lot of false comments on meele maps

Comment are valid as long as it was proven or sensible enough to be acceptable.

 

[MorkZe]

The terrain is good but has some minor flaws as Kobas pointed out. Since it's a melee map, "bad" spots in terrain shouldn't matter that much; there's got to be some empty open scapes to have room for big fights and building bases and people playing the map intensively shouldn't notice or be bothered of some partly floating buildings and missing skyboxes. It's hard to spot those things without zooming in and I doubt anyone playing a melee match uses the zoom-in feature anyway.

The map itself is balanced and having 2 expansions per player is always good thing. There's lots of creep camps but maybe a bit too much of them. Item drops are ok and I like the idea of the dragons dropping lvl 2 tomes, excluding tomes of experience.
The position of the gnoll camps near middle with 2 wardens and chief are kinda bad as they are almost in the middle of open spaces and might interfere with waypointed units.

 

[WaremDarkslayer]

Well I dled it and....

Firstly I will (respectfully) disagree with -Kobas- about the water level issues with the tavern as in a melee map not everything is as realistic as in RPG or campaign maps. (By the way you are right the twisted meadows has got its tavern below water level but it is the ONLY building to be in that state)Well I must agree with -Kobas- in the fact that the creeps are a little off. Maybe just put forest trolls and mud golems together and bandits with other creeps in other groups.

Your terrain is nicely made although I don't much like seeing cobble tiles every few inches (just exaggerating).Overall I will give your map a 3/5 because it (no matter what flaws it may have) has the signs of a map that has been worked on very much.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Well I dled it and....

Firstly I will (respectfully) disagree with -Kobas- about the water level issues with the tavern as in a melee map not everything is as realistic as in RPG or campaign maps. (By the way you are right the twisted meadows has got its tavern below water level but it is the ONLY building to be in that state)Well I must agree with -Kobas- in the fact that the creeps are a little off. Maybe just put forest trolls and mud golems together and bandits with other creeps in other groups.

Your terrain is nicely made although I don't much like seeing cobble tiles every few inches (just exaggerating).Overall I will give your map a 3/5 because it (no matter what flaws it may have) has the signs of a map that has been worked on very much.

Hands up to your sir. You are the second most sensible human being here after Septimus. Also, putting Forest Troll, Bandit, and Mud Golem together isn't that bad. Blizzard is never right on Creep Group Placement. Although Bandit and Golem in a Creep Camp would make more sense, especially if there are Bandit Mages.

Also, R.Gaming_Strike, I think you have some problems. I've never seen you gone into such a rage. If something's wrong IRL, don't take it here.

 

[BrookLyn]

i can understand why he was raging. u put a lot of effort into making a good map, testing it etc. & then he has to read critics that are completely overexaggerated/just wrong in every possible way.

anyway, now to my critique. actually i thought silver river didn't really need updates, but when i played it, it felt a lot better to do so. the creeps and the terrain has a lot of variety and it just looks a lot more complex and better thought out. in the old version some spots looked a little cramped and dull terrain-wise. the "bridge"-area is just beautiful, some other spots like the goblin creeps and the red dragon camps have been put into the right atmosphere. i have no problems with some buildings/trees put into water level, just makes it look more "alive" so to speak ^^ the only really complaints i have are some textures/missing doodads. the starting positions could need some flowers/bushes/shrubs etc. texture-wise the only parts i don't like are the city street tiles, somehow they don't fit in (they look too squared & don't merge that well with the other tiles, maybe look at that again) overall awesome work with some minor flaws, i'd give it 4,5 => 5

 

[Septimus]

But the last one thing I should mention - this map is dedicated only for those who are playing real meele games. Not for those frequently users.

I agree with this issues and disagree it at the same time.

Sometimes, we got to exclude some of the melee aspect to enchances our map (As long as it doesn't overkill the aspect).

For example, when making an Tower Defense map; add some unique stuff into it that no other tower defense map have it and not just blantantly remake another version of it which just build build build, upgrade upgrade upgrade and the constant ho hum in TD genre.

When a person make a map, surely cannot make another cheap copy. If make an cheap copy, the popularity of the map would not improve no matter how hard a person promote his work.

Of course, this issues was rather complex and often change from time to time that often have all map maker like us baffled and stump.

Many people often say that melee map should not contain a custom model in it which I certainly say Yes/No at the same time. Custom model could be use as long as it was only for destructible/doodad which is to enchant the beauty of the terrain and not for custom unit.

I have seen an melee map using custom model for destructible/doodad which are rather impressive and yet retain the melee generic in it. Unfortunately, the resources are no longer available.

 

[ap0calypse]

Thread cleaned.

@R.Gaming Strike: watch what you're saying... you've just called nearly everyone on this site an idiot because your opinions don't match with another person's opinions.
I've -repped you for trolling, I hope that doesn't make me an idiot according to you.

 

[R.Gaming_Strike]

I don't care about my rep - so its not a that big problem.
Thanks for cleaning the thread anyways.

And if I find any reason for you beeing an idiot - I will contact you

(supposed to be a joke)

 

[Septimus]

I don't care about my rep - so its not a that big problem.
Thanks for cleaning the thread anyways.

And if I find any reason for you beeing an idiot - I will contact you

(supposed to be a joke)

that is why we have infraction.

 

[Ironside]

THW Description: Good description (5/5)
Map Description: Not bad (4/5)

For both (9/10)

I like the terrain, you did a good job with it (10/10)

The creep camps are placed very well, I liked the Kobold camp. (10/10)

The rule 2x amount of players is reached. (10/10)

As already said above,they placement is good. (10/10)

Their drops seem to be balanced. (10/10)

Their ok, you might try to add some more, as you have free space. (8/10)

0%-49% = 1/5 vote for rejection
50%-60% = 2/5 but i vote for reviewed
61%-70% = 2/5 but i vote for Aproval
71%-80% = 3/5 vote for aproval
81%-92% = 4/5 vote for aproval
93%-100% = 5/5 vote for aproval

Total: 67/70
= 96%

Vote for Aproval?= Yes
Vote for Rejection?= No

Final Rating: 5/5

 

[lonepair]

Really perfect map I must say. It deserves a 5/5.