RTS style zombie slaughter?

[ELFoglalt]

Hello hive!
I've been thinking for a while now and I came up with a 'zombie survival' game but in a bit different fashion. Okay, wall of text incoming!

The basic concept:
Most survival games put a small group of soldiers against a huge amount of zombies and the point of the game is the struggle for survival. What I'd like to create is more of an RTS in which you command multiple squads of soldiers to achieve objectives in infected environment. The survival part would be relatively easy to overcome with proper tactics and planning. The game would take place in urban environment with many houses that can be entered.

Game modes
Single player; zombie hunting co-op; multilayer firefight ([team A vs team B] + zombies)

Systems:
To make the map as fun as it should be it would require a projectile system and ammo count/inventory for soldiers.
- The projectile system would be crucial for the multiplayer as you could move your soldiers to cover and hide behind walls, cars, etc. Otherwise, it's just a nice touch, a little plus for snipers, and close quarter combat. (I never made a map using projectile systems yet so I don't know the technical details. Common sense says that 20 soldiers firing their rifles could cause some lag so the projectile system it might be off the agenda.)
- Ammo would increase the need for proper tactics. Each soldier on the map has a maximum amount of ammo he can carry while APCs would be able to resupply nearby allies. More about this below.

Units:
I'm not sure how it should be.
- The first setup would give you at maximum 4 soldiers (1 squad), each you control on their own.
- The second setup would be a bit more tricky. You get 2 squads or 1 APC. You can issue direct orders to a Squad Leader (SL), and use his spells to issue orders to squad mates who follow the SL. I favor the 2nd one but it could get annoying if not done properly. -> Needs rethinking

Unit types:
Basic military divisions seen in games:
- Fireteam (SL, Automatic rifleman, 2 Riflemen -> all purpose sq, good in clearing buildings, and fighting zombies in general)
- AT squad (SL, 1 AT rifleman, 1 carries extra ammo for AT -> good against APCs, special infecteds, not so good against zombies on it's own)
- Sniper squad (Spotter, Sniper -> good against special infected, enemy infantry)
- Combat engineer squad (SL, 3 combat enigneers -> can place sandbags set explosive charges or lay minefields if supported by an APC; can blow up bridges, maybe buildings walls?)
- APC or IFV (Good against infantry, can transport 2 squads, resupplies nearby infantry. Limited mobility, can't reach every area on the map.)
- Specialist squad (3 specialist infantry equipped with chemical protection suits and a flamethrower -> can clean highly infected areas, good against the mob, invulnerable to infection but has slow walk speed)
- Officer squad (Platoon leader, combat medic, rifleman, automatic rifleman -> Allows the placement of objective marks to help player coordination, medic can establish medical base to cure infection and heal soldiers; possible off-map support?)

APCs might look overpowered in a zombie game, and they actually are. The downside is that they can only move on the streets and take up the place of 2 squads. You will gain an upper hand on the streets, but clearing buildings is harder.

Infecteds:
Dunno. Had the idea of a guy who explodes, doing high damage, someone who infects nearby soldiers trough the air if not shot down in time. Maybe a tough guy like the tank from L4D. Need more ideas.

Objectives:
The objectives would be like missions you can pick at start. Things like, defend an area, clear an area, assault an infected hive/whatever-zombies-have, escort survivors, establish base etc.
For multiplayer, you have to higher score rating by the end of the match while you can constantly call in new units unimitedly, OR you have a limited amount of supplies and need to eliminate all enemies.

====================================

Duh. That's a tad longer than expected. Thoughts? Is this project worth starting or should I scrap the idea and go learn Galaxy Editor? ^^
(Note: I suck at map making so if anyone likes the idea, that much, go for it.)

 

[x3GlikE]

The idea is very good, but it has flaws altho I would make the map ect. if i had a team.
If you want to make this map count me in,

 

[-W3SK3R-]

This is really good idea a RTS map with zombies it's original i think.

 

[supertoinkz]

I like the idea but, does the Extra Ammo Carrier on the AT Squad attacks?

 

[ELFoglalt]

@X3GlikE: Could you explain those flaws to me? I'm curious. If we can get enough people (modeler/animator and JASSer would be the real deal), I'll sure try to make the map. I kinda want to flesh out the idea a bit, and then if we don't have enough people, I'll post it in the recruitment forums or try to convince some of my friends to team up with me.
What are you interested in btw? I saw your awesome 2d art, so I guess that's your main skill but correct me if I'm wrong.

@DEMIGOD123: Thanks!

@supertoinkz: Yes. Here's how I imagined it:
- SL leader, who is equipped with a basic assault rifle
- AT rifleman who has a submachine gun AND the ability to fire one rocket
- a rifleman equipped with an assault rifle, who has the ability to resupply the AT infantry with one rocket if he has none.

If the ammo carry rifleman is dead, the AT guy can still use it's AT but has half the ammo. If the AT guy is dead... Well I'm thinking about the ability to pick up AT guns, and MGs from dead bodies but that might get a bit complicated. In that case every unit should have an inventory and non specialized equipment (sniper rifles, mines, maybe explosive charges) could be switched between units. So if the AT guy gets shot down, the ammo man can still grab the launcher and use it, or a regular fireteam rifleman can pick up a machine gun if the AR (automatic rifleman) is dead.

Duh I feel like getting overambitious...

 

[supertoinkz]

More ideas

-How about the engineer squad is composed of only 3 combat engineer? Then one of them got a flamethrower (I won't suggest Incendiary Rockets) and the other two will use submachine guns (to be fair).
-Medic Squad - Composed of 3 Medics (one of them is the leader) with submachine guns. They can heal nearby units.

Also, what will happen if the Squad Leader dies?

 

[GhostThruster]

Really cool idea actually

May I suggest instead of pre-designated squad members, you make it customizable.

eg. You are allowed to choose a maximum of 4 squad members out of these classes:
Marine - wields basic assault rifle. has 'flare' and 'frag grenade'.
Engineer - wields a grenade launcher. has 'land mine'. can repair vehicles.
Sniper - wields a sniper rifle. has 'camouflage' and 'combat knife'.
Spec Ops - wields a shotgun. has 'smoke grenade' and 'nightvision'.
Medic - wields a standard pistol. has 'stimpack' and 'bandages'.
Flamer - wields a flamethrower. has 'oil drench'.

 

[x3GlikE]

@X3GlikE: Could you explain those flaws to me? I'm curious. If we can get enough people (modeler/animator and JASSer would be the real deal), I'll sure try to make the map. I kinda want to flesh out the idea a bit, and then if we don't have enough people, I'll post it in the recruitment forums or try to convince some of my friends to team up with me.
What are you interested in btw? I saw your awesome 2d art, so I guess that's your main skill but correct me if I'm wrong.

I can do anything but terrain and make models.
Also is it like building or like you start with a set amount of units and you build like a base but not like meele if you get me.

 

[supertoinkz]

/@ Ghosthruster : No.

Engineers should be in different group, because they need a different command set.
Snipers also (would be too imba if they are protected with soldiers).
And Spec Ops shouldn't be in there. Why would a country send Spec Ops in a middle of a battle against merciless and brainless zombies?

/@ ELFoglalt : If you're making the map, I wish it won't disappoint me.

 

[GhostThruster]

@supertoinkz: To me, it allows you more depth and strategy and makes your choice count more. It was only an idea anyways.

Engineers have a different command set? What?
I believe the term is called 'nerfing'
Yeah, absolutely true, why would anyone send the most elite soldiers when the Earth and humanity itself is on the edge of annihilation?

 

[supertoinkz]

-The thing on the lower right.
-......
-Then, they should be on another squad, like their focus will be rescuing survivors (uhm, extra money), taking down elite zombies or special infecteds. I meant that they should be in the frontline, but they should be protected.

 

[ELFoglalt]

Woah! Lots of posts

To answer the questions:
1. As already mentioned, mixing squad members would result in overpowered compositions. You could simply get 4 automatic riflemans into a single squad and pwn every zombie. (Of course this could be balanced, I'm open to ideas ^^)

2. Flamethrowers... I was thinking of an alternative squad, 'specialists', wearing protective clothes that makes them immune to infection. It would be a 3 men squad with a flamethrower and shotgun. They could burn corpses (and kill zombies in general) to avoid your other units getting infected, but they would be slower than normal infantry. As long as flamethrowers are not too nerfed, I guess it's a really cool idea.

3. Medics. I forgot to add this in the first post. Medics will be part of an 'officer squad' which looks like this:
- platoon leader (SL) -> has grenade launcher, can place operation marks seen by all players. Gives the ability to coordinate better. (Maybe able to call in off-map air support/artillery?)
- combat medic -> carries firstaid, but not effective on the field. To use a combat medic appropriately you have to set up a medical base, (build stuff just like engineers do, needs APC again) where the medic can fully heal teammates and remove infections. Using first-aid on the field is ok too in case of minor injuries. There should be missions that can't be completed without a medic. (Collecting samples, curing important personnel who is not yet zombie but has very little time left, etc.)
- automatic rifleman and rifleman -> just to cover the important guys

4. Game type. You call in units at the beginning of the match and you are avaliable to get some more if the mission allows. You have 'command points' (CP) and if they are depleted you can call in no more reinforcements. You have a maximum limit of 2 squads, so even if you have 10 CP, you can't call in all of them at the same time.
Buildings would be help for units, not the other way around. Units are not trained in the game area, but dropped in with heli/spawned at the edge of the map (?). Buildings should only include supplemental stuff like: sandbags, 0.50cal emplacement, mines, supply rack (resupplies infantry just like APC, but has limited supplies), firstaid station (a tent in which medic cures and heals everyone who enters). Stuff like this. (Ideas needed)

5. SL dieing? Eh uh. Ideas? >.< I think I don't like the commanding trough SL idea anymore... Still I want to help players to use their squads as squads so there should be some negative effect if they are too separated. Ideas?

 

[GhostThruster]

I'd prefer no SL system, it requires players to micro-manage and utilize squad members individual, which is more challenging, yet more rewarding at the same time.

 

[ELFoglalt]

Yeah dropping the SL idea... Tho I guess every squad will have a 'dummy hero' associated with it. You can select the whole squad by clicking on the dummy hero's icon at the top left corner. (The health bar could indicate the number of soldiers alive (Whole squad = full; 3 out of 4 men = 75%, etc.))

I'll probably post tomorrow in the recruitment thread. Already working on the project forums. Also working on a well understandable description of units, game modes and game objectives.

Did some quick concept art too. Looks like crap tho...

 

[Symon]

3. Medics. I forgot to add this in the first post. Medics will be part of an 'officer squad' which looks like this:
- platoon leader (SL) -> has grenade launcher, can place operation marks seen by all players. Gives the ability to coordinate better. (Maybe able to call in off-map air support/artillery?)
- combat medic -> carries firstaid, but not effective on the field. To use a combat medic appropriately you have to set up a medical base, (build stuff just like engineers do, needs APC again) where the medic can fully heal teammates and remove infections. Using first-aid on the field is ok too in case of minor injuries. There should be missions that can't be completed without a medic. (Collecting samples, curing important personnel who is not yet zombie but has very little time left, etc.)
- automatic rifleman and rifleman -> just to cover the important guys

Medic as a special unit? That's not realy realistic... You should place medic in a simple squad, like 1 Rifleman, 3 SMG, 1 Medic or something like this.

 

[Trillium]

Making medic a special unit would force the player to make more complex tactical decisions. That's perfect, IMO. medic as common unit can be compensated with bonus hit points for everyone.

 

[ELFoglalt]

Making medic a specila unit would force the player to make more complex tactical decisions.

What Trillium said.

And actually it's much more realistic than you think. ^^ A fireteam has no medics, while a platoon does. (Based on US stuff, because it's fairly simple.)

 

[Symon]

Huh, everytime thought that squads& fireteams got medics..

 

[ELFoglalt]

Duh this kinda stopped. I just came to the conclusion that zombies are boring and we need something else to shoot at... Ideas? Zombies are somewhat OK, but all the 'special infected' stuff is just stupid IMO.

(The problem is that I always end up at the zerg xD "Hmm we need small meele units, probably with some more intelligent force that controls them... Not zombies. Then... Aliens! Duh. Zerg. Cliché. AARRRGH." )

Maybe I'm just over complicating things?