[Crash] Returned to World Editor

Level 13
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
651
Hello All! I bought & downloaded warcraft 3 reforged to return map making. All my old stuff, previous map folders which is from 2015-2019 are not working. WE instantly closes without any error. Tried to import triggers and objectives into new map on reforged. And I can't see many in-game models like missles, doodaads on objective editor interface model showcase and editor keeps crashing.

I got error named Popcorn FX: Unable to load particle effects. I googled and I found no solution. So I have question about Reforged World Editor:

Is it not working properly after many years from launch? or should I return to classic editor?
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 75
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Jun 4, 2009
Messages
20,215
So, I need to convert into SD then remove all SD imported models to change it HD? I would like to continue my project on HD version
From what I understood of what Chaosium wrote, is that you go in the game, open its options/settings and put the graphics mode to SD. Then, launch the editor. Not sure if you have to leave the game on or not.
 
Level 30
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So, I need to convert into SD then remove all SD imported models to change it HD? I would like to continue my project on HD version

You shouldn't necessarily need to remove them, HD mode supports having imported SD assets

That being said, perhaps that's not the issue. Do you have triggers in your map? You could try removing them (or exporting them) to see whether they're causing the issue or not
 
Level 13
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
651
You shouldn't necessarily need to remove them, HD mode supports having imported SD assets

That being said, perhaps that's not the issue. Do you have triggers in your map? You could try removing them (or exporting them) to see whether they're causing the issue or not
I converted to SD as you said then open the project and everything works fine. Then I deleted all the units, doodads which is placed on map and deleted all the imported things. Now it works on HD version. I think some old model replacement on map causes crashes.

I think it's working now. I haven't seen lots of new HD maps on hivework. I guess many ppl keep going on classic versions.
I remember there were issues with the popcorn FXs, @Retera made a video about fixing the issue but I can't find it.
It's nice to see you again Deep. What do you recommend to making custom maps? SD or HD version?
 
On August 17th, 2022 there was a new patch released for Warcraft 3 with the new people -- after Activision fired the old people. The purpose of the new patch was to add a Ladder so that users would stop threatening to sue about removed features versus the original Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne game that Reforged deleted that had all of these features.

But the patch was like a folder on some guys computer, created by another guy who got fired. So it had a ton of code changes in there that had nothing to do with melee ladder. This included a new format for all 3D models in the game, both HD and SD and also a new format for all Reforged Particles. The Reforged particles were made with a program Activision rented from another company and doesn't control, so that they could make pretty looking effects without learning how to fit them into the existing Warcraft 3 code system.

The general design of Warcraft 3 is that when you get a new patch, your old map still opens on that new patch. The general design of PopcornFX game making technology is that each new version of the format is no backwards compatible with the previous. So it's out of Activision's hands. Because they upgraded PopcornFX, all effects in the game had to upgrade for the August 17, 2022 patch and also all user maps had to upgrade their contents or else crash. So, this is different than the usual backwards compatible philosophy of Warcraft 3 maps across patches. Classic does not use this kind of third party code outside the hands of Activision, so classic keeps working mostly across patches, although certain models like Naga models were broken on classic for 1 year after that patch released because of the Activision people who made a new model format then got fired, and the new people who published that folder into production without studying it.

When a bunch of people complained, the new guy(s) at Activision tried to hack together a fix to tell you to rebake your custom assets whenever world editor encounters an out of date particle. But he made two mistakes:
  • world editor users dont know how to rebake assets -- they just download and import them from Hive and dont have the original source files
  • his error message shows up for the particles inside the game itself for some reason, because he made some typo when he was programming the fix, and he never fixed it for the year(s) since then, so now World Editor always shows an error that you should rebake assets all the time in HD. There is nothing you can do about this error, and it shows incorrect for ingame models, even though they are the correct format and work ingame

The video that I made that @deepstrasz was probably referring to does not help you with Reforged particle effects. Instead, it complained about the Warcraft 3 model file format change, which is a different problem. The video is here:

But the video is no longer relevant. In late 2023, about 1 year after the bad patch released, apparently the video got enough attention and now the specific problem it describes was resolved on Reforged, or so I'm told. I kind of stopped using Reforged, because it's stupid to let people enforce their authority over how my computer works if they know less about how it works than I do.

But this video says nothing about Particle Effects on Reforged so that is an entirely different issue, and because of Activision's bad choices, there is nothing you can do about it other than to recreate or "rebake" any custom particles, depending on how you got them.

My PKBlaster tool on hive was updated so it can PKBlast the new format as well, if you ever used that.
 
Level 13
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
651
On August 17th, 2022 there was a new patch released for Warcraft 3 with the new people -- after Activision fired the old people. The purpose of the new patch was to add a Ladder so that users would stop threatening to sue about removed features versus the original Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne game that Reforged deleted that had all of these features.

But the patch was like a folder on some guys computer, created by another guy who got fired. So it had a ton of code changes in there that had nothing to do with melee ladder. This included a new format for all 3D models in the game, both HD and SD and also a new format for all Reforged Particles. The Reforged particles were made with a program Activision rented from another company and doesn't control, so that they could make pretty looking effects without learning how to fit them into the existing Warcraft 3 code system.

The general design of Warcraft 3 is that when you get a new patch, your old map still opens on that new patch. The general design of PopcornFX game making technology is that each new version of the format is no backwards compatible with the previous. So it's out of Activision's hands. Because they upgraded PopcornFX, all effects in the game had to upgrade for the August 17, 2022 patch and also all user maps had to upgrade their contents or else crash. So, this is different than the usual backwards compatible philosophy of Warcraft 3 maps across patches. Classic does not use this kind of third party code outside the hands of Activision, so classic keeps working mostly across patches, although certain models like Naga models were broken on classic for 1 year after that patch released because of the Activision people who made a new model format then got fired, and the new people who published that folder into production without studying it.

When a bunch of people complained, the new guy(s) at Activision tried to hack together a fix to tell you to rebake your custom assets whenever world editor encounters an out of date particle. But he made two mistakes:
  • world editor users dont know how to rebake assets -- they just download and import them from Hive and dont have the original source files
  • his error message shows up for the particles inside the game itself for some reason, because he made some typo when he was programming the fix, and he never fixed it for the year(s) since then, so now World Editor always shows an error that you should rebake assets all the time in HD. There is nothing you can do about this error, and it shows incorrect for ingame models, even though they are the correct format and work ingame

The video that I made that @deepstrasz was probably referring to does not help you with Reforged particle effects. Instead, it complained about the Warcraft 3 model file format change, which is a different problem. The video is here:

But the video is no longer relevant. In late 2023, about 1 year after the bad patch released, apparently the video got enough attention and now the specific problem it describes was resolved on Reforged, or so I'm told. I kind of stopped using Reforged, because it's stupid to let people enforce their authority over how my computer works if they know less about how it works than I do.

But this video says nothing about Particle Effects on Reforged so that is an entirely different issue, and because of Activision's bad choices, there is nothing you can do about it other than to recreate or "rebake" any custom particles, depending on how you got them.

My PKBlaster tool on hive was updated so it can PKBlast the new format as well, if you ever used that.
Thanks for deep diving. I appreciated it.

I tried so many variations to understand where problem is. Even when I play old maps on reforged, it causes crash and it might be about these particle effect problem as you mentioned on above. Convert it to SD, and it keeps continue on crash while playing.

I exported all the triggers, object data and configuration of my map. I'll create a new map and import all of database stuff and try it if it works or not. The only thing I afraid is keep changing Gameplay Constants/Interface on every new map. I'll probably do it one by one.

I was waited for more than 3 years to keep continue creating maps and re-make old projects for Reforged, and it still not stable as I see. I hope they will ressurect reforged idea.
 
it still not stable as I see.
My impression was that after the August 17, 2022 patch, the world editor became much less stable than the original Reforged release was. They gradually fixed some things, but it seems like they mostly only want to do melee now.

I heard some people back then say that the really skilled folks were using a backup of the 2021 or early 2022 versions of the game, and using their backups to develop maps but using the latest live client to play the maps. That way, they have a Reforged world editor that can open all their old maps and never crash, but a game that can do latest multiplayer - and play those maps.

But I guess if you didn't save a literal backup of your game install from then, you might be out of luck and unable to do that kind of thing.

In most cases, they have been fixing game crash bugs introduced after the August 17, 2022 update, even though they did not seem to care about the World Editor. This is probably a paradigm shift for whoever is in charge of it now, that they assume world editor things are left to skilled custom users to figure out, whereas the game itself crashing is dumb and bad enough for them to fix.

But it might be worth acknowledging my bias and noting how I have been spending less time with the most recent versions of Reforged, and my information might be out of date, because around the time Reforged released I moved my Warcraft 3 mapping projects to my own rewrite of the game part of the system, so that I can have this experience but where the bugs actually get fixed. And so I'm slowly turning in to this kind of troll, who seems to know how the Warcraft 3 technology works (by trying to do a remake of it independent of Microsoft/Activision) but the reason I know that is toxic to the company interest instead of in line with them, so I have this subtle bias to make people think Reforged is broken when in reality people who want to do Reforged probably love the Reforged or whatever.
But my experiences can make for nice montages of rewriting the game, or whatever.
 
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