RageFul Frenzies

[Moderator]

21:16, 29th Jul 2010
ap0calypse: Rejected

Whatever.

 

[Falzelo]

Your Description should be improved: tell something about game play, special things in your map... and use some BB codes
(It makes people don't want to read it in the first glance)
From the map preview, I guess that your terrain has only 1 tile. However I will download and try.

 

[-Kobas-]

Dl and Testing...

EDIT:

Ok let see... RageFul Frenzies

Things that I like

1st - Custom models
2nd - Damage Show System

Things that I don't like

1st - Map Description
2nd - Terrain is poor
3th - 1 unit type, building, and 4 upgrades -.-
4th - Poor ingame description
5th - No hints etc
6th - Upgrade cost is very very expensive
7th - Movement speed is very very slow
8th - Icons are poor (For example all 4 upgrades are created on x=0,y=0)

Word or 2 to Author:

I think that map isn't finished jet, use Map Development forum for that! You can make thread there upload your map so people can tell you what they think just like here! Also for any help with triggers or how to clean memory leaks post triggers and create threads here Triggers & Scripts! Btw if you need any help with WE we have World Editor Help Zone here on THW! And at the end if you need any resource from icons to loading screens check this out Requests!

1/5 Vote for Rejection
Map Reported

 

[WarManta]

You gave me a 1/5 and vote for rejection and even reported? Mind telling me why?
Map description is pretty good... I improved the terrain/ the terrain was extremely good compared to all the other frenzies...., thats meant to be like that for now, for your third thing. I agree there for your 4th one, I did give hints in quests.... upgrades cost is lowered next version. movement speed can be upgraded and is surpost to be slow, how is that a minus? icons are poor? you kidding me? seriously wow...... If i put this in map development it will just get forgotten, don't deny me because I know its true.

 

[ap0calypse]

You gave me a 1/5 and vote for rejection and even reported? Mind telling me why?
Map description is pretty good... I improved the terrain/ the terrain was extremely good compared to all the other frenzies...., thats meant to be like that for now, for your third thing. I agree there for your 4th one, I did give hints in quests.... upgrades cost is lowered next version. movement speed can be upgraded and is surpost to be slow, how is that a minus? icons are poor? you kidding me? seriously wow...... If i put this in map development it will just get forgotten, don't deny me because I know its true.

He reported the map so I would take a look at it.

Every mistake is one too many.
Although icon positions are a 'minor' factor, it's extremely annoying (at least for me) if icons aren't in the correct position.
I can't even imagine a good map with wrong icon positions.
The terrain is horrible, saying the terrain of other maps suck is no excuse.
The movement speed is indeed a pain in the ass, there is only 1 quest which gives only a bit of information, there are no in-games messages (as far as I've seen), there was a huge invulnerable thing in the middle, there is a lack of units/upgrades/items.
Oh yeah, the damage upgrade doesn't do anything? I upgraded it to level 3 and the damage was still 0-10.
(And 2200 gold for +5HP? That's seriously not worth it).

Aside from that, I took a look at your triggers and had to say that these are also bad.
You did not remove leaks and the coding in general (mainly efficiency) is not how it should be.

1/5, rejected.
If you wish any further comments, please say so.

1 More thing: don't hate -kobas- for reviewing your map, you should be grateful.
He gave you a list of things you need to change and how you can improve the map, I can see that you really need the information he's given, because your map does deserve a 1/5 and nothing more.
-kobas- reviewed your map on his own free will, with his spare time - he could've done something else and you start whining about how most of the things he said were unfair.


Edit: about the 2 good things -kobas- listed, one of them was a 100% critical strike (not that much of a system) and the other is a negative point in my eyes.
Don't import models, unless you need them.
Although this time it's not really much of a problem, since there is only 1 imported model.

 

[WarManta]

So you deprotected my map? I wish that mpq blocker still worked.... The huge invulnerable dummy unit in the middle was for you to click on to issue a attack mass order to center...
It appears you didn't test my map very well or look at it, the damage upgrade is not what you think, not your real damage and it does do more. just not that much more... I am not hating anyone, just saying this is better then most frenzies I see...

 

[-Kobas-]

I don't want to find way to deprotect or whatever people maps so I wasn't able to see triggers and WE stuff!

Well I now understand why each unit has Damage ability icon -.-

ap0calypse thanks!

 

[ap0calypse]

So you deprotected my map? I wish that mpq blocker still worked.... The huge invulnerable dummy unit in the middle was for you to click on to issue a attack mass order to center...
It appears you didn't test my map very well or look at it, the damage upgrade is not what you think, not your real damage and it does do more. just not that much more... I am not hating anyone, just saying this is better then most frenzies I see...

That huge invulnerable thing was an enemy for me, so clicking it really didn't help a lot.
I now realise that you just upgrade the critical strike with the damage upgrade, but it would be a lot better if you actually upgraded the damage instead.

And yes: I deprotected your map, but only for private use.
People tend to help out those who are having troubles with triggering, but this is only possible with maps that aren't protected.
Protection keeps people away from learning (both you as other people could learn from that map), the only good protection is the kind that alo lowers the file-size (optimizing), but there isn't even a use for that in your case: the file-size doesn't need to get any smaller.

 

[WarManta]

I had it 0 - 10 dmg because I liked that idea since it'd be fair and the ways you are suggesting would make my map just as bad as all those other footies....

 

[-Kobas-]

Idea is ok, but then change Damage Ability description, and remove that damage index!

Here this one is new but epic tutorial, learn 30% from there and your map will become really good: Click

 

[WarManta]

My map is already really good though, thank you for helping me out unlike ap0calyspe did.
Ap0calyspe goes exactly correct by his name below his acc name called a map repeller, he is very good at repelling.
That huge invulnerable thing is the dummy unit to use mass order commands as I said earlier.

 

[-Kobas-]

Well don't be hard on ap0calypse, he check, lets say over 20 maps per day, he need a lot of time for each map, so he can't spare more time to show each one of you where you made error, what to improve, or to give ideas! Guys like me are here to do that instead of him, once when he thinks that map is good enough for approval he will approve it! You must understand that we have life!

You can always use Map Development forum for new ideas, ask people what they think, bother them and someone will leave comment for sure!

 

[WarManta]

I know you guys have lives and I thank you now for using your time to review my map.
I doubt it that he checks over twenty per day, I would say at most five at the maximum.
If I put this in the map development forum as I said before I won't get much out of it.
Before anybody gets harsh again do try to test the map as best as you can if you have the time to do so before rating or rejecting my map.
Oh, update as well I hate terraining with a passion so before you judge my skills in the arts of terrain data please remember that next time. ( I might just paint my terrain in a .tga file next time and convert it to warcraft terrains file format and import it that way. )

 

[ap0calypse]

I had it 0 - 10 dmg because I liked that idea since it'd be fair and the ways you are suggesting would make my map just as bad as all those other footies....

Because having a 100% crit with x1.2 damage and a base damage of 0-10 is different from 0-12 damage?
I beg to differ.

My map is already really good though, thank you for helping me out unlike ap0calyspe did.
Ap0calyspe goes exactly correct by his name below his acc name called a map repeller, he is very good at repelling.
That huge invulnerable thing is the dummy unit to use mass order commands as I said earlier.

I didn't even give your map an actual review and I never said I did.
I just played it for 5 minutes and saw that there was no way it could be approved, made a small list of things I noticed at first and then posted them.

That big invulnerable thing is a pain in the ass, you can do stuff like that a hell lot better.
If you accidentally click it in a war, you're screwed.
Yes: I repel maps... I'm also a map critic, a mistake is a mistake and shouldn't be there.

I know you guys have lives and I thank you now for using your time to review my map.
I doubt it that he checks over twenty per day, I would say at most five at the maximum.
If I put this in the map development forum as I said before I won't get much out of it.
Before anybody gets harsh again do try to test the map as best as you can if you have the time to do so before rating or rejecting my map.
Oh, update as well I hate terraining with a passion so before you judge my skills in the arts of terrain data please remember that next time. ( I might just paint my terrain in a .tga file next time and convert it to warcraft terrains file format and import it that way. )

I check about 10 maps a day (not 20, not 5 either).
This becomes significantly less if I've got a lot to do in real life, or give a real review (and it becomes more if I don't have a lot to do as well).
I don't only need to moderate this section here, I'm a global mod on another site and need I'm also a mod in the mod's lobby, where I regularly clean up as well.
Sorry if I didn't test your map thoroughly, though you can learn from my initial post, so I suggest you do that.

Perhaps you just didn't present your map well enough?
Waste some time on creating a perfect thread, with lots of BB-codes (apart from color codes, they're a pain as well) and you'll get a lot more reactions than with a plain text such as your map description.
Check other threads with a lot of responses and try to be original.

 

[WarManta]

If i upgrade output damage I upgrade input damage too making it 1-11.... If you played it for five minutes then maybe reject everyone's map because you seem to not get the idea of what I am trying to do, I do not want normal damage, or maybe the people you do know about, you will only approve their maps because you don't have twenty minutes to waste just to test a map. which is usually the case for you moderators, because I myself know this is better then some of the maps approved on this site.... Well if I can do it better then tell me how to make a better attack command instead of this. How can I learn more from your first post? I was original and I didn't want to waste a full day on making a description where literally nobody will bother to read it. I did everything you said in your first post and you still reject my map? I bet you didn't try it again after I updated it.

 

[ap0calypse]

If i upgrade output damage I upgrade input damage too making it 1-11.... If you played it for five minutes then maybe reject everyone's map because you seem to not get the idea of what I am trying to do, I do not want normal damage, or maybe the people you do know about, you will only approve their maps because you don't have twenty minutes to waste just to test a map. which is usually the case for you moderators, because I myself know this is better then some of the maps approved on this site.... Well if I can do it better then tell me how to make a better attack command instead of this. How can I learn more from your first post? I was original and I didn't want to waste a full day on making a description where literally nobody will bother to read it. I did everything you said in your first post and you still reject my map? I bet you didn't try it again after I updated it.

Yes, I only played it for 5 minutes.
Is there anything else I really need to see? I've seen the triggers, the terrain, all possible upgrades and units.
There just isn't that much to see in this game, I didn't like anything I've seen, how can it then get approved?

Yeah, sure: some approved maps here date back from 2006 (or even earlier, from wc3s), the approval standard was very low back then compared to as it is now.
I didn't reject this based only on what I saw, but also based on what kobas said.

I indeed didn't try it again, am I supposed to?
Are you going to tell me what I have to do?

Perhaps you don't read the description, doesn't mean other people don't.
A description does more than you think it does.

 

[WarManta]

Yes, I only played it for 5 minutes.
Is there anything else I really need to see? I've seen the triggers, the terrain, all possible upgrades and units.
There just isn't that much to see in this game, I didn't like anything I've seen, how can it then get approved?

Yeah, sure: some approved maps here date back from 2006 (or even earlier, from wc3s), the approval standard was very low back then compared to as it is now.
I didn't reject this based only on what I saw, but also based on what kobas said.

I indeed didn't try it again, am I supposed to?
Are you going to tell me what I have to do?

Perhaps you don't read the description, doesn't mean other people don't.
A description does more than you think it does.

I knew it, you only rejected it because you don't like it.
I am talking about the 2007 or 2008 or even 2009 one's....
kobas tried the poor version same as you meaning what your opinions mean right now are worthless because I changed everything and made it better while I keep telling you to stay out of my map... Your using XDep aren't you? below 1.23 I could block that
It can get approved by re testing the map and you haven't seen all possible upgrades and stop using XDep and there is only one unit I know that.

 

[ap0calypse]

I knew it, you only rejected it because you don't like it.
I am talking about the 2007 or 2008 or even 2009 one's....
kobas tried the poor version same as you meaning what your opinions mean right now are worthless because I changed everything and made it better while I keep telling you to stay out of my map... Your using XDep aren't you? below 1.23 I could block that
It can get approved by re testing the map and you haven't seen all possible upgrades and stop using XDep and there is only one unit I know that.

I have various programs, not only xdep, I think you're underestimating how many programs have been developed just to deprotect maps.
However, that does not mean I steal: I don't copy ideas, I don't take triggers, objects, nothing - I only use it for moderation purposes or to help someone.
You only had to ask me not to deprotect your map, though I will once again say that protecting a map doesn't only limit others from learning, but it limits you as well.
Protecting a map because you fear that I will look at your triggers is completely the opposite of what you're trying to achieve: a better map.

I have reset the map back to pending, but I will not test it, in general because I don't like your attitude towards a fair comment.
And yes: I rejected it because I disliked it (not 'only' because I disliked it, but because of kobas' post as well).
Anything wrong with a map moderator rejecting a map he and another user do not like? Can't see the problem here.

And if you're wondering: Ralle told me not to pay too much attention to the maps section (I don't even need to moderate maps anymore, since Ralle is working on a system).
So yeah, I still do it anyways.

 

[WarManta]

You don't like my attitude to a "fair" comment? Explain further into that for me if you don't mind please... I also think it is very nice of you to still review maps even if Ralle is working on something I have no idea of.

"Anything wrong with a map moderator rejecting a map he and another user do not like? Can't see the problem here."
Huge problem there, You and one user do not like my map... what about the thousands of other users on this site? How is it fair to them to block my map and only you and two others seen it?

If I wanted help, would I of posted this in the maps section then? Thank you for trying to tell me to leave my map unprotected but I would prefer to rather let RoC users play it too meaning I have to protect/corrupt it in the process as well I dislike people adding small cheats to my map even if you don't, others will.

 

[Falzelo]

You should not blame, Ap0, repelling map is his job already.
He has been doing this job for long, and you are the first one I have seen who blame him this hard.
He did not reject your map just for he didn't like it; It has its own problem that you need to fix
5-minutes testing is enough. In 5 minutes you can have the very first feeling of what this map is like, and many problem can be found in these minutes. Further more, Ap0 open your map, so he doesn't have to test much (Not to mention that some map ends in 5 mins)
Last thing, you should improve your description. I'm serious, you should decorate it, give some screen shots, and so on.
I'm downloading your map and testing it. Wait for my further comments

 

[Septimus]

You gave me a 1/5 and vote for rejection and even reported? Mind telling me why?

It already well written right infront of your eyes.

Map description is pretty good...

No, it isn't.

The description look dull, unorganise and does not garner enough attention.

What't you're merely doing was describe it with a couple of paragraph and sentences without even organise it.

Come on, you're suppose to sell your product and you got to make it look as interesting as possible; not trying to demolish your product.

If i put this in map development it will just get forgotten, don't deny me because I know its true.

It is true and only true if your map presentation was completely boring, messy and unorganise. People would paid attention if you make a good presentation of what is your map all about.

It just like guy would look at hot chicks, but stay far away and does not bother the ugly one.

But it was QFT.

I am not hating anyone, just saying this is better then most frenzies I see...

How good is your map was were determine by the community that play it, not by yourself.

My map is already really good though, thank you for helping me out unlike ap0calyspe did.

apo help more than you think, if you really paid attention to it.

Oh, update as well I hate terraining with a passion so before you judge my skills in the arts of terrain data please remember that next time. ( I might just paint my terrain in a .tga file next time and convert it to warcraft terrains file format and import it that way. )

If you have trouble, you should recruit people to assist you instead of blatantly leaving it blank.

There is a clear line between a bland, decent, lacking and horrible terrain.

.... If you played it for five minutes then maybe reject everyone's map because you seem to not get the idea of what I am trying to do, I do not want normal damage, or maybe the people you do know about, you will only approve their maps because you don't have twenty minutes to waste just to test a map.

For your information, you do not need to play a map an hour or 2 just to find out how bad it was.

Map with serious fundamental flaws could have all it's weakness, error and bug notice in the first glances.

because I myself know this is better then some of the maps approved on this site....

For your information, approve doesn't mean it was approve forever.

If any map deem to be unfit, contain bug and etc etc after it's approval; we could still reject it.

And some map was at approve stage cause they're uploaded around year 2006, the time where map moderator have not exist yet.

And well, apo edi mention it.

Yeah, sure: some approved maps here date back from 2006 (or even earlier, from wc3s), the approval standard was very low back then compared to as it is now.

I was original and I didn't want to waste a full day on making a description where literally nobody will bother to read it.

It isn't, originality was hard to come by and in this case of yours, it isn't as original as you think it was.

And if you're thinking nobody bother to read it, then you're awfully dead wrong.

It depends on how well you present your work, if you did it well enough; people would simply read it or else they would ignore it.

It was just like how you got the enthusiasm to read a novel full of mysteries rather than a dull novel.

I did everything you said in your first post and you still reject my map?

If you think a minor update would get you an approval, then you're dead wrong.

An update cannot just contain a few 5-9 changes in it, but it got to have more than that especially if it was rejected by staff.

My melee map was once rejected by Gilles, but it was approve after it gone through a rather tremendous changes. Just ask him how much differt it was and he could tell you about it.

"Anything wrong with a map moderator rejecting a map he and another user do not like? Can't see the problem here."

Map moderator deserves the right to give or not to give review about your map and that is why we have 2 status for approve map (Review and Approve).

If you want review, you're suppose to use map development section as this section was reserve for complete work.

In this case of yours, your map isn't as good as you think it was unless you want to learn it the hard way.

Huge problem there, You and one user do not like my map... what about the thousands of other users on this site? How is it fair to them to block my map and only you and two others seen it?

They already mention sufficient flaw in your work and they have the experience in map making better than you do. The flaw they mention could be valuable asset in improving your work.

And if you don't do so, you are turning people away since the quality of the map would stay the same and you would never improve it.

Do you seriously know why nobody commenting your map apart from both of them? Because your current post show your current attitude towards other who post an honest opinion about your map and all they see was a map maker that refuse to accept other people opinion and keep on bragging on how good his map was.

This leave people the impression to leave this guy and his own map at his own imaginary world.

If I wanted help, would I of posted this in the maps section then?

You're obviously at wrong place then, this section are not for help and feedback. Map Development section are.

I dislike people adding small cheats to my map even if you don't, others will.

If people really wanted to add cheat, they could simply deprotect it. Deprotecting was getting easier and easier with release of new deprotect program.

I would be brutally honest, with your map at this current stage; it isn't even worth to be deprotect just to add cheat into it.

At hive, approved map means the map already reach the most min/decent standard of a good quality work. If your map was rejected at here, rest assured that it would be rejected at other side.

You could not even avoid an minor issues such as icon position and memory leak, what's possibly makes you think it would make it good.

 

[dead-man-walking]

[...]Map description is pretty good... [...]

Dead wrong sonny. This map is used to have a much better Description. And it's still good for today's standards.

These Links can be helpful for your Description.

My map is already really good though, thank you for helping me out unlike ap0calyspe did.
Ap0calyspe goes exactly correct by his name below his acc name called a map repeller, he is very good at repelling.[...]

Already good? Naahh. Another Footies. Very original. [/sarcasm]
And ap0 has a life too. He's also a Mod on Horde Studio.

[...]I was original and I didn't want to waste a full day on making a description where literally nobody will bother to read it.[...]

Dead wrong. Again. In here, people judge books by their cover.

 

[WarManta]

Quote

For your information, you do not need to play a map an hour or 2 just to find out how bad it was.

Map with serious fundamental flaws could have all it's weakness, error and bug notice in the first glances.

Well I don't recall saying a hour or two, I actually think it was twenty minutes I said. Sometimes first glances can't tell if a map is good or bad.

Quote

"If you have trouble, you should recruit people to assist you instead of blatantly leaving it blank.

There is a clear line between a bland, decent, lacking and horrible terrain."

Terrain usually never mattes in a footmen frenzy if you ever paid attention to the others out there, I am still working on that though.

Quote

"It isn't, originality was hard to come by and in this case of yours, it isn't as original as you think it was.

And if you're thinking nobody bother to read it, then you're awfully dead wrong.

It depends on how well you present your work, if you did it well enough; people would simply read it or else they would ignore it.

It was just like how you got the enthusiasm to read a novel full of mysteries rather than a dull novel."

Well care to tell me what peoples maps are just like mine? I do think barely anyone reads and I am right.
I thought I presented my work just fine but it seems I have to add colours for the children.
I don't have enthusiasm and I would read either if I had the time.

Quote

"If you think a minor update would get you an approval, then you're dead wrong.

An update cannot just contain a few 5-9 changes in it, but it got to have more than that especially if it was rejected by staff.

My melee map was once rejected by Gilles, but it was approve after it gone through a rather tremendous changes.
Just ask him how much differt it was and he could tell you about it."

It wasn't a minor update. I definately need to remeber to add a changelog....
It was over ten changes and what does it matter if its rejected by the staff? your comment there tells me the staff matters more then the community.
Your melee map had a terrain makeover and more creatures added in right?

Quote

"They already mention sufficient flaw in your work and they have the experience in map making better than you do. The flaw they mention could be valuable asset in improving your work.

And if you don't do so, you are turning people away since the quality of the map would stay the same and you would never improve it.

Do you seriously know why nobody commenting your map apart from both of them? Because your current post show your current attitude towards other who post an honest opinion about your map and all they see was a map maker that refuse to accept other people opinion and keep on bragging on how good his map was.

This leave people the impression to leave this guy and his own map at his own imaginary world."

I fixed those flaws for one and for two how would you know who spent more time wasting away in map making for warcraft three, thats right you don't know who has more experiance.
What they did mention did improve my map and I thanked them twice I do think. The quality of my map will be improved and I improve this map as much as I can considering this is a side project.
Nobody is commenting because it wasn't seen for everyone else, that is why plus I need to add colours still. "dead" wrong there, honest opinion of testing a map for five minutes? That one made me Lol
We all live in a imaginary world here on the internet...

Quote

"If people really wanted to add cheat, they could simply deprotect it. Deprotecting was getting easier and easier with release of new deprotect program.

I would be brutally honest, with your map at this current stage; it isn't even worth to be deprotect just to add cheat into it.

At hive, approved map means the map already reach the most min/decent standard of a good quality work. If your map was rejected at here, rest assured that it would be rejected at other side.

You could not even avoid an minor issues such as icon position and memory leak, what's possibly makes you think it would make it good. "

Deprotection was able to be nearly 100% blocked until the patch that broke over half of the maps on wc3.
I have to be honest to this one too, my map at this current stage seems to suck to you and your giving nothing to help me improve it besides this bullcrap.
My map seems to be liked by my clan so the other side wouldn't be rejecting me.
I fixed icon positioning and memory leak I am working on now, don't you ever pay attention or even test my map before commenting here... or did you just read what you saw and do it that way?

Quote

"You're obviously at wrong place then, this section are not for help and feedback. Map Development section are."

Map Development wouldn't be the place since nobody would come and comment since I have posted other stuff there and barely anyone commented. Though they did view it a lot.

Quote

"Dead wrong sonny. This map is used to have a much better Description. And it's still good for today's standards.

These Links can be helpful for your Description."

Whats up with everyone saying dead all of a sudden? ( gives me a feeling your all zombies.... ) I am currently working on improving my description and today's standards seem high.
Thank you for leaving a nicer comment atleast.

Quote

"Already good? Naahh. Another Footies. Very original. [/sarcasm]
And ap0 has a life too. He's also a Mod on Horde Studio."

This will soon not just be another footies, I will be changing that shortly...
If ap0 has so much going on then why bother with me/ the seemingly raging noob?

Quote

"Dead wrong. Again. In here, people judge books by their cover. "

You said dead again, lol. If everyone judges books by their cover then wouldn't that mean this is not a place for real maps then now is it?

 

[Falzelo]

A word or two to War Manta

Note

Well, it's a bit illegal saying these words here but not pm, but I don't only want to send these words to you, but every body which are in the same situation of yours

I can understand the feeling of receiving too many negative opinions at the same time. You must feel that people are having a negative look on you. But don't think that. Listen to what they said instead of saying that they are wrong; They are possibly better than you. What they are doing is giving you honest opinion about your map, things that you are lacking, and then you can make your map better in future.
Don't hate a mod when he reject a map of yours; instead, do something instead of arguing; proof that you can make something better than a reject-able map.

About the description, to be honest, you MUST improve it. You can open some "Director's Cut" map and learn a thing or two from how they write their description. And you will see that it worth your time.

About the 5-minutes test, I said, and Septimus said, many faults can be seen in the first 5 minutes of game play. If you are complaining that people didn't test your map longer, then you should do something to make them test your map for longer

If you are having trouble with terraining, you can ask for help on Forum. You can also ask directly Kobas. He's nice and will certainly help. Just don't forget to add him into your Credit

My last words: you should improve your map instead of writing page-long posts which criticize people about how they are commenting about your map and helping you. My map got rejected, but I asked the one who rejected my map to reset it to pending, and now it's approved.

Good luck

 

[ACdestinydream]

i like your style manta. if i was given such answers by ap0 and sep and those good guys i would feel like a saint because my map would be better. BUT, in your case, u blatantly rejected their suggestions. Dude, theres a difference between MAP PLAYERS and MAP MAKERS. MAP PLAYERS are those stupid dumbass you can cheat with mediocre triggering work and they will say good job and MAP MAKERS are those who wants high quality standards for their map. It seems like you liked your map being just as it is, but why?

judge the book by their cover? nonono. the mods have read, analysed and even scanned the book and they give 1/5 for the book. Well, everyone hates their own stuff getting rejected but this is how it works here: if your map isnt good, mods will reject it and tell you why. And you improve it till they feel it is possible to approve it. Then, you continue working on it. Thats how it works. Your in stage one and you do not want to go to stage 2. ap0c have gave ample (more than ample) reasons why he rejected it. Instead of screaming at mods, why not ask mods kindly how to improve in those matters? No designer would want to force-sell some crap which is hardly working to the public and lose money. think about it. If u feel that you need to ask questions (triggering, improving) you can pm me or any kind souls here in hive.

good luck and hope this excels.

edit: falzelo, seems like we had the same ideas lol.

 

[WarManta]

The mods have read,scanned and everything you said the first post of my map, they never touched the update and apparently you two can't see that either while I do agree about that 5 min thing but it doesn't work anymore since I added more. Possibly better but nobody knows that for sure and the only way to get a map back to pending from rejected around here is to argue it seems since I asked repeatedly how to fix my map.

I am working extremely hard on this side project right now and trying to add hero's because I think it needed a new unit since people dislike only one unit type.

I never rejected anything they said, I actually used all of what they said so....
I don't mind my stuff being rejected but when someone in power won't look at the update but look at the first update instead just makes me a little upset since that's what happens around here and I as a user am trying to change that, I apologize deeply for any harsh remarks I made.

I don't hate anyone, I only try to make it so people can get the entire experience of what I create.

Instead of commenting on how I argued/battled with a mod how about try testing the map for like 10 minutes and suggest upgrades or something else I could add.

Oh as well nobody is a good or bad guy, everyone has two sides.

I forgot to mention that I couldn't find a way to improve my map description since there is only typing for it and you can't do anything else unless I post it here which would seem useless.
I do not know how people added screen-shots or video's and color and whatever to their descriptions because it seems pretty impossible.

 

[Septimus]

Well I don't recall saying a hour or two, I actually think it was twenty minutes I said. Sometimes first glances can't tell if a map is good or bad.

Do not forgot that majority of the map reviewer here are also an map maker and most of them have sufficient experience in map making to notice what is wrong with it in just a single glance.

Go ahead and read tutorial about polishing your map, you would notice why it was very easy to notice flaw that are deem to be critical with just a single glance.

Terrain usually never mattes in a footmen frenzy if you ever paid attention to the others out there, I am still working on that though.

It depends on the sitution. If there is way too much same map like this out there, why not make your map outstanding in comparison with the others instead of just another cheap copy of it?

Well care to tell me what peoples maps are just like mine? I do think barely anyone reads and I am right.

We do read and we only read if it garner enough attention and sounds interesting.

I thought I presented my work just fine but it seems I have to add colours for the children.

You seriously think colouring is the way to attract attention? You obviously have no idea what we are talking about then.

The way you presenting your map does not need to use a flashly colouring, but it need an approprite and neat description of how it goes.

It wasn't a minor update. I definately need to remeber to add a changelog...

10 changes or 20 changes or hundred of changes are not enough if an appropriate resolution are never been used.

Karawasa Elemental TD for example, gone through a huge changes and revolutionary in just a single update that makes it almost unrecogniseable and incomparable with the older version and if my memory serves me right, it took him about an year for just an single update of it considering he is trying to use an resolution that are as good as possible.

It was over ten changes and what does it matter if its rejected by the staff? your comment there tells me the staff matters more then the community.

They're not merely appoint as staff just because of their good conduct, but is because they are also a good reviewer and have sufficient knowledge of what suppose an resources got to be and what it should avoid.

I learn a lot of new stuff especially about cinematic making technique from infrane (cinematic moderator of wc3c) when he was evaluating my work. Without him, my skill might still be the same.

Of course, their decision to give whether an brief or indepth detail about your work depends on their decision.

Your melee map had a terrain makeover and more creatures added in right?

Terrain makeover are never as easy as you think it was and if you think a little adjusment get an approval, then it isn't.

Nobody is commenting because it wasn't seen for everyone else, that is why plus I need to add colours still. "dead" wrong there, honest opinion of testing a map for five minutes? That one made me Lol

as i say, it was easy to detect a serious fundemental flaw in a map that are not properly polish.

My map seems to be liked by my clan so the other side wouldn't be rejecting me.

Getting an opinion from friends are likely to be bad idea because..

1) Do they have the skill in map making and know what must be done?
2) Do you seriously think they are giving honest opinion? They might not want to hurt your feeling actually.

I get a lot of positive comment from my friend at garena who play my map, but not at this site when the staff mention what I did not polish in my map.

your giving nothing to help me improve it besides this bullcrap.

What is the point of reviewing your map and assist you if you been stubborn and stick to your decision that you're right all the time and the rest are wrong? I already mention about this at my preview post.

Map Development wouldn't be the place since nobody would come and comment since I have posted other stuff there and barely anyone commented. Though they did view it a lot.

The question is, do you present your work well enough just like I mention in my previous post?

i

like your style manta. if i was given such answers by ap0 and sep and those good guys i would feel like a saint because my map would be better. BUT, in your case, u blatantly rejected their suggestions. Dude, theres a difference between MAP PLAYERS and MAP MAKERS. MAP PLAYERS are those stupid dumbass you can cheat with mediocre triggering work and they will say good job and MAP MAKERS are those who wants high quality standards for their map. It seems like you liked your map being just as it is, but why?

This is what I call a rather solid point.

The mods have read,scanned and everything you said the first post of my map, they never touched the update and apparently you two can't see that either while I do agree about that 5 min thing but it doesn't work anymore since I added more. Possibly better but nobody knows that for sure and the only way to get a map back to pending from rejected around here is to argue it seems since I asked repeatedly how to fix my map.

Just look at the way you describe your map, do you call that an update? You got to be kidding.

I am working extremely hard on this side project right now and trying to add hero's because I think it needed a new unit since people dislike only one unit type.

You might be pouring in 100% effort, but some people are pouring in 1,000% or even 10,000% or 100,000% effort into their map.

Just look at Cloudwolf and Aeroblyctos, do you know how much dedication and motivation they pour into their map like Diablo 3 and The Chosen One only to have it have such an success today?

I don't mind my stuff being rejected but when someone in power won't look at the update but look at the first update instead just makes me a little upset since that's what happens around here and I as a user am trying to change that, I apologize deeply for any harsh remarks I made.

The problem is, you do not pour in enough effort. Sometimes you might think you pour a lot only to find out you do not.

Believe me, I have been in this shoes before.

Instead of commenting on how I argued/battled with a mod how about try testing the map for like 10 minutes and suggest upgrades or something else I could add.

If you cannot find any volunteer, then you should try to spend some time at tutorial section.

I forgot to mention that I couldn't find a way to improve my map description since there is only typing for it and you can't do anything else unless I post it here which would seem useless.
I do not know how people added screen-shots or video's and color and whatever to their descriptions because it seems pretty impossible.

It is possible, just use the BB codes to do so.

 

[WarManta]

No such thing as over 100% and what is a BB code? I know what i poured into my map and you do not, I doubt you've been in my shoes before lol. I am not right all the time, when did I say that hmph?

"Possibly better but nobody knows that for sure"

That wasn't my map, I was replying to "They are possibly better than you." which is Falzelo's comment.

 

[ap0calypse]

If ap0 has so much going on then why bother with me/ the seemingly raging noob?

Because I care.
I've seen hundreds of people come and go at the hive, a first submission is always the hardest one.
However: that doesn't mean that I should just let everyone and everything that isn't good enough in it's current stage go.

Terrain usually never mattes in a footmen frenzy if you ever paid attention to the others out there, I am still working on that though.

Because nobody has ever done it, it means that it doesn't matter?
That's a false statement: I've been helping out another guy who was creating a footmen Frenzy before, I told him that he had to change the terrain to make it more original.
In the end, he clearly thanked me for my support and ideas: the new terrain is a lot better than 95% of all frenzies on wc3 and it really paid off, it added a strategical factor in the game as well.

Well I don't recall saying a hour or two, I actually think it was twenty minutes I said. Sometimes first glances can't tell if a map is good or bad.

This only counts for maps with a huge gameplay (usually RPG's): this map didn't seem to vary a lot, if I played it more than 5 minutes I would probably find more bugs and/or things that weren't as they're supposed to be.

I thought I presented my work just fine but it seems I have to add colours for the children.

Certainly not! Please refrain yourself from using too much color codes.
It needs structure, and structure can be added with BB-codes (I hope the link explains what they are).


So yeah okay: at the moment I don't have the will to test your map again, I've done so before and posted everything I've seen.
I did, however, reset the map back to pending so other users can comment on it (if they feel like it: nobody is forced to download or play your map, you've got to attract them - main way to do that is with a good description).

Now if you agree, I could clean this thread.

 

[Septimus]

No such thing as over 100%

You obviously did't get it.

I doubt you've been in my shoes before lol.

Laugh all the way you want if you don't believe me.

As you progress through the time and learning more new skills, you would be slapping your forehead and ask yourself "Why I never think about it?" when you're looking back at your old map.

 

[-Kobas-]

Lol just stop already, he will never get it -.-'
Damn I lost 20 min to read all that above

 

[Falzelo]

I don't know why this dude spent too much time on this arguing instead of making his map better himself? Though it's surely more useful
btw nice signature Sept
WarManta I really hope that I will see a better map of yours in future.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Quote

"Dead wrong sonny. This map is used to have a much better Description. And it's still good for today's standards.

These Links can be helpful for your Description."

Whats up with everyone saying dead all of a sudden? ( gives me a feeling your all zombies.... ) I am currently working on improving my description and today's standards seem high.
Thank you for leaving a nicer comment atleast.

Quote

"Already good? Naahh. Another Footies. Very original. [/sarcasm]
And ap0 has a life too. He's also a Mod on Horde Studio."

This will soon not just be another footies, I will be changing that shortly...
If ap0 has so much going on then why bother with me/ the seemingly raging noob?

Quote

"Dead wrong. Again. In here, people judge books by their cover. "

You said dead again, lol. If everyone judges books by their cover then wouldn't that mean this is not a place for real maps then now is it?

FIRST: Yes, today's standard is very high. You're lucky Hive is not as elitist as Wc3C

SECOND: Show us what is so "special" about this then

THIRD: In here, Cover = Description

FOURTH: Dead Wrong = Very Wrong

 

[WarManta]

I would add screen-shots but nobody likes me anyways so I can't get a game going to show screen-shots, working on AI so I can play by myself and do it that way.

Apologies everyone, I am just not easy to get along with so I will ignore what happen and thank you for your helpful information.

I am done arguing with you guys since it seems I would most likely win but have a negative effect on myself.

WarManta's Argued Replies Back To People Who "Care"

Quote

Because I care.
I've seen hundreds of people come and go at the hive, a first submission is always the hardest one.
However: that doesn't mean that I should just let everyone and everything that isn't good enough in it's current stage go.

Well if you cared so much why bother with this arguing and just test my map instead? Always though a last submission was hardest. Never let anything go if its not good enough I agree but you barely gave me a chance.

Quote

Because nobody has ever done it, it means that it doesn't matter?
That's a false statement: I've been helping out another guy who was creating a footmen Frenzy before, I told him that he had to change the terrain to make it more original.
In the end, he clearly thanked me for my support and ideas: the new terrain is a lot better than 95% of all frenzies on wc3 and it really paid off, it added a strategical factor in the game as well.

It does matter in a way how you degraded my map, of course it did succeed but the way I had my terrain is what I liked...

Quote

This only counts for maps with a huge game-play (usually RPG's): this map didn't seem to vary a lot, if I played it more than 5 minutes I would probably find more bugs and/or things that weren't as they're supposed to be.

You really only test rpgs for twenty minutes? Finding more bugs is lovely and things that shouldn't is even better then the public finding it for me.

Quote

You obviously didn't get it.

Obviously I did but you didn't get it.

Quote

Laugh all the way you want if you don't believe me.

As you progress through the time and learning more new skills, you would be slapping your forehead and ask yourself "Why I never think about it?" when you're looking back at your old map.

Why would I believe someone that is just being rude here? As I progress through time I haven't learnt anything new for a year now, I will wonder why such a argument happened when I look back at this...

Quote

Lol just stop already, he will never get it -.-'
Damn I lost 20 min to read all that above

You should stop I know, I did get it earlier as I said. About your rating mind changing that any time soon? Twenty minutes?

Quote

I don't know why this dude spent too much time on this arguing instead of making his map better himself? Though it's surely more useful
btw nice signature Sept
WarManta I really hope that I will see a better map of yours in future.

I don't know why people love to argue here either, I made my map better as I was arguing . Haven't seen a good map by you yet, I should learn to check profiles though....

Quote

FIRST: Yes, today's standard is very high. You're lucky Hive is not as elitist as Wc3C

SECOND: Show us what is so "special" about this then

THIRD: In here, Cover = Description

FOURTH: Dead Wrong = Very Wrong

Wc3C sucks in my opinion, I have tried to show whats so special, the cover shouldn't be everything... that just shows how rude everyone is then. You guys seem to rather like Dead Wrong though.

Well, this tells me so much about you guys by this argument, thank-you for proving a point for myself.

 

[Septimus]

Well if you cared so much why bother with this arguing and just test my map instead?

We are not here to argue with you, what we are merely doing was to told you that you need to change your attitude.

You want people to give opinion about your map and yet you constantly being stubborn enough by being way too defensive and defending your point being right while it being proven to be wrong by the majority of the people.

If you do not change this attitude of yours, the first thing that comes into the map reviewer mind was "What's is the point of reviewing and commenting the map if the author itself refuse to improve it?".

The first thing you need to do was to change your attitude, just look at all those post over here. It already a clear sign of what you should do.

Wc3C sucks in my opinion, I have tried to show whats so special, the cover shouldn't be everything...

Presentation are crucial and also a sign of how much incentive you pour into your map. It been my past experience that map with terrible packaging often does not have the quality of a good map should be.

Good description play several critical roles and that is why we have a rules that map must contain a proper description.

I can assured you that if you stick to this attitude of yours, your map making skills would always been consisten and never improve. Anyway, you already admit it by yourself that you never learn anything new for over a year and that is already a clear prove of it.

 

[WarManta]

Quote

We are not here to argue with you, what we are merely doing was to told you that you need to change your attitude.

You want people to give opinion about your map and yet you constantly being stubborn enough by being way too defensive and defending your point being right while it being proven to be wrong by the majority of the people.

If you do not change this attitude of yours, the first thing that comes into the map reviewer mind was "What's is the point of reviewing and commenting the map if the author itself refuse to improve it?".

The first thing you need to do was to change your attitude, just look at all those post over here. It already a clear sign of what you should do.

Well your proving my point still you are here to argue with me and I have no need to change my attitude when you continue this, I do want feedback and I do listen to it and I can not see how I am proven wrong while defending myself which is a good thing at-least I can do it while others could be picked on. Well if the map reviewer tested the map then there would be no need to question that, I did look at those posts and did everything they said besides become defenseless.

Quote

Presentation are crucial and also a sign of how much incentive you pour into your map. It been my past experience that map with terrible packaging often does not have the quality of a good map should be.

Good description play several critical roles and that is why we have a rules that map must contain a proper description.

Good thing I fixed it then eh?

 

[dead-man-walking]

I would add screen-shots but nobody likes me anyways so I can't get a game going to show screen-shots, working on AI so I can play by myself and do it that way.

Apologies everyone, I am just not easy to get along with so I will ignore what happen and thank you for your helpful information.

I am done arguing with you guys since it seems I would most likely win but have a negative effect on myself.

WarManta's Argued Replies Back To People Who "Care"

Quote

FIRST: Yes, today's standard is very high. You're lucky Hive is not as elitist as Wc3C

SECOND: Show us what is so "special" about this then

THIRD: In here, Cover = Description

FOURTH: Dead Wrong = Very Wrong

Wc3C sucks in my opinion, I have tried to show whats so special, the cover shouldn't be everything... that just shows how rude everyone is then. You guys seem to rather like Dead Wrong though.

Well, this tells me so much about you guys by this argument, thank-you for proving a point for myself.

It's not that people hate you. You are just being a jerk on opinions at the beginning, that's all. I've seen some good changes on your attitude, though. And stop arguing. This is a friendly advice from your random Average Joe.

Wc3C seems sucks on first sight. But it's the only place where you can legally download JNGP, if memory serves me right.

So, your Map is, basically, a combination of Footies and Defense? Seems interesting in my opinion.

The cover is not everything IF you are well known.You are yet to be known.

By the way, do you read the links that I posted?

It's not rude. It's a part of the rule. Once you are able to arse yourself into making a better description, you will always make it.

Always.

Now excuse me but my coughing is getting worse by the dust.

 

[WarManta]

How am I being a jerk? I can't stop arguing if others don't stop, being known and not known is definitely a problem that needs to be fixed on hive....
Thanks for your opinion, as I said earlier descriptions are the least to worry about.
No wonder why barely anybody makes it to be able to post resources in hive, I now fully understand why.

 

[Falzelo]

I'm bored reading pages-long posts. Now I want to say something:
People don't even want to argue with you. Instead, They are trying to help and make you improve your skills. But, look at your attitude. You listen to none of them, things that are suppose to make you be better
Your attitude is just like when you help someone, he shouts at your face "I don't care"
You know why Mods haven't rejected your map yet? Because they still want people to help you can make you understand what they are trying to do, but it seems that you don't understand that.
Really think that you should change your attitude or you can never learn anything.

 

[WarManta]

Well apparently they're only arguing with me and I haven't seen anything new to help me improve my map or even my skills.... Look at their attitudes..... I do listen all the time, I never shouted.. Yet. I knew it, was waiting for you to say that, I am not nothing I am better then nothing but you can be nothing if you wish. I might just be a member, so what? People don't deserve the right to keep bashing someone in. Duh, I know I don't rule here. Quite obvious if you ask me. I am learning that some members are just here to argue so I guess I am learning after all. I have stopped trying to argue but you continue it with the rest of them. Maybe if someone tried to drop this conversation and start a new it could get better around here but like that'll ever happen.

 

[ap0calypse]

Well if you cared so much why bother with this arguing and just test my map instead? Always though a last submission was hardest. Never let anything go if its not good enough I agree but you barely gave me a chance.

Because I didn't feel like playing the map again, of course!
The last submission isn't the hardest... really, a map should be good in general, not in comparison to other maps (such as your previous ones).
So if one of your maps is an overachievement and you create another one, the overachievement won't do anything with the new map's rating.
And I didn't 'barely give you a chance': I rejected the map because I really hated it and reset it back to pending on your request, that's what I do for everyone, you're no exception.

It does matter in a way how you degraded my map, of course it did succeed but the way I had my terrain is what I liked...

Your terrain was crap, end of story.

You really only test rpgs for twenty minutes? Finding more bugs is lovely and things that shouldn't is even better then the public finding it for me.

Nope, I test all maps I like for a longer period (time spent on it depends on the map).
Like I said before: I hated your map, so why should I play it any longer if I had enough material to reject it?

Haven't seen a good map by you yet, I should learn to check profiles though....

You've never seen a good map of me either, does that mean I suck at mapping/reviewing?

I have tried to show whats so special, the cover shouldn't be everything... that just shows how rude everyone is then.

Nobody said the cover is everything, though if you want people to review your map, give comments and find bugs, then you'd better have a decent cover.
Also, a nice cover is required here on the hive... There are several reasons for that, but my main reason is the easier reviewing.

That defiantly boosted my self esteem didn't it? No wonder why people usually leave the hive.

I have removed that from his comment.

If this is turning out to be a thread where people flame you, I'll clean everything.
Falzelo, watch your words: the map did get rejected, but I reset it because of Manta's request, all members of the hive have more to say than they think (public polls still decide major changes, public votes/comments can change a mod's decision for example).



I'll be watching this thread for a while, when I see the discussion is ending I'll clean everything.
All this arguing deters people I think.

 

[WarManta]

Why don't you like my map? By the way I have seen worst terrain then mine.

 

[Falzelo]

Why don't you like my map? By the way I have seen worst terrain then mine.

That means you don't have to improve your terrain?
anyway, this is my last comment in this thread.

 

[WarManta]

So, I explored a little on Ap0c and found these two maps, they appear to have bad terrain don't they? http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/elemental-chaos-td-119124/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/chaotic-sphere-v1-2-a-151395/

 

[ap0calypse]

So, I explored a little on Ap0c and found these two maps, they appear to have bad terrain don't they? http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/elemental-chaos-td-119124/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/chaotic-sphere-v1-2-a-151395/

1) Yes, so? I don't like that map either... it's not approved, is it?
2) ...Figure this one out yourself, you look stupid just by mentioning it.

Why don't you like my map? By the way I have seen worst terrain then mine.

I've said this before.
And I really doubt an approved map has a worse terrain than your first version.

 

[WarManta]

Good thing that was only my first version eh?

 

[Septimus]

So, I explored a little on Ap0c and found these two maps, they appear to have bad terrain don't they? http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/elemental-chaos-td-119124/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/spells-569/chaotic-sphere-v1-2-a-151395/

First of all, elemental chaos td was under pending stage. They are not approve yet.

Second, Chaotic Sphere map are map that are used to import spells to another map. Spells map are suppose to be a map that contain nothing apart from scripting of GUI/JASS/VJASS of a spells.

Adding any resources that are not unentirely necessary to spells map was a complete waste of bandwidth of the site and download time.

People download spells map just to import the spells material inside the map to their map, thus the spells map have no particular use apart from being a test map.

Third, your map are not rejected under the reason of terrain only.

 

[WarManta]

Thank you for repeating it, you got a habit of that it seems.

 

[Septimus]

Thank you for repeating it, you got a habit of that it seems.

What i am doing was further elaborate what apo was saying.

And you're using custom model in your map, isn't it?

Do you know it was rather a serious offense to use someone else resources and does not credit them in your map?