Raging River

[WolfFarkas]

You should write in the contest page that you want to participate.

 

[Leo-speo]

You should write in the contest page that you want to participate.

did

 

[ometotchtli]

Like it!

 

[Mr.Henci]

Here is a little bit of feedback:

- There are huge gaps in treeline, in which wisps can hide.
- The map is rather flat with rough cliffs. I would advice to use raise/lower tool to make it more natural.
- Black map border can be reached by non-air units. Try using cliffs/water/doodads to hide it.
- Goldmine creeps are set to "camp" mode (200 agro distance) while they should be set to normal (500 agro distance) - on the other hand some creeps camps are set to 500 while they should be at 200.
- There are no critters, giving undead players certain handicap.
- 7500g expansion seems to be too low on gold. Try rising it to 9000 - 9500g.
- Creeps seems to be in a good shape in general, though I found few spots with questionable item drops.

All in all, nice map that requires some polish before it could be considered melee ready.

 

[Leo-speo]

hey Mr henci Thx for the feedback ; )

1) if you could tell me the spots ill be glad to fix that (even tho i dont know any map in the pool which hasnt at least some of those places)
2) having different highs is done on purpose to give the terrain more charm and not make it too boring, i dont think its an issue and the players liked it so far. (especially the riverbed allows for some plays)
3) good idea to use that but i dont think its critical?
4) tested the creeps a lot and to avoid pathway attacks at scouts etc i had to set most creeps to 200 since its a rather small map. the troll at the expansion is set to 500 to avoid to close aow here, u shouldve noticed that when trying to build nearby. we tryed all the spots for aows and proxys so i have to disagree on this point.
5) True! had only 1 at top but will fix that.
6) most of the meele players testing it advised me to set the naturals on low gold since it has an advantage of highground alrdy. might think about a bit more for sure tho but the intention is to not rely on it to heavily here.
7) which item drops are questionable in your oppinion?

all in all u should keep in mind that i am not trying to create a map which is alrdy existent. a new map should create its own meta.

but i would like to get some more details to be able to look at some points of ur feedback. appriciate it

 

[Mr.Henci]

Hey, no problem. All things I have mentioned are just my opinions which you can take or leave them be It's all up to you.

if you could tell me the spots ill be glad to fix that (even tho i dont know any map in the pool which hasnt at least some of those places)

This is pathing in your's base treeline. Do you see all those gaps? Wisps and other units can easilly hide there.

Now look for example at Echo Isles pathing of treelines.

You can bring up this view by selecting units palete (as if you wanted to place untis) and pressing Ctrl + D and Ctrl + T twice. Press P for pathing and you will see how walkable your map is. (This is usefull for every map you are planning to create even in the future.)

2) having different highs is done on purpose...
3) good idea...

Those are indeed only my personal preferences, you can leave it as it is if you prefer your maps to look that way.

4) tested the creeps a lot and to avoid pathway attacks at scouts etc i had to set most creeps to 200 since its a rather small map. the troll at the expansion is set to 500 to avoid to close aow here, u shouldve noticed that when trying to build nearby. we tryed all the spots for aows and proxys so i have to disagree on this point.

Good, seems you have done fair bit of testin than. I was just pointing out that it is usual to have all goldmine creeps set to 500 (the southern expo is set to 200 to avoid agro I guess) while northern red camp is set to 500, which may or may not be usual. I'm not sure. If you feel this is the right way to have it, leave it as it is. In the end this is yours map, not mine so you are the one deciding how it will play out.

6) most of the meele players testing it advised me to set the naturals on low gold since it has an advantage of highground alrdy. might think about a bit more for sure tho but the intention is to not rely on it to heavily here.

Again, personal preference. If you feel 7500 is enough that it is enough.

7) which item drops are questionable in your oppinion?

I'm not sure and am no expert when it comes to item drops, so take it with a grain of salt:
- I would give tome at natural to the berserker
- I would probably go for only Perm lvl 5 at Ogre lord creep camp, but I'm unsure about that one.
- Also, I'm not sure how random items work, but I guess you have it figure it out, so that threw me away a bit.

all in all u should keep in mind that i am not trying to create a map which is alrdy existent. a new map should create its own meta.

Sure thing, the map seems allright. Good luck in contest

 

[Leo-speo]

thanks for using ur time to give tipps! some of those rly help! will dive in on some of ur points : ).

yeah i tested a lot with higher lvl meele players and its rly hard sometimes at who you want to listen since some ppl just have diff oppinions, but if i hear smth more than once im always trying to work at it.

thanks again

 

[mafe]

Alright, the map is quite good with respect to creeps, items and layouts, but there are many technical errors which happen to anyone who has just not that much experience with the editor.
It's best explained in this screenshot (the examples on this screenshot also appear on various other locations of the map):

Yellow: Small gaps where (in theory at least) small units like footmen can pass through while bigger units and heroes cant. These can lead confusing army movement if small units take an unexpected shortcut. (It's not relevant in these exact places on th screenshot, but there are others).
Red: Buggy ramps. These tiles are unpathable, units will walk around them. This happens typcially if you change ramps too often, inparticular if they are not streight or lead down to shallow water.
Black: Gaps between trees. Wisps can use these to to hide from vision and be safe from harass, for example (there is other potential abuse too). To avoid this, place at most 7 trees at once with the size 2 circular tool. So trees will be placed as in the white circle, and do this all over the map, leaving no gaps.
Blue: A wisp can enter this tree from the direction of the arrow, but melee units cannot attack it from the direction of the arrow. This does not happen if you use the 7-tree-method to create forests.

While this sounds like a lot, you dont have to fix all of it, unless you aspire to make a map that is of the same quality as ladder maps.

Some other questions:
-Some itemdrops dont have a class (charged, permanent, powerup,...) defined. Is this intentional?
-Creeps are facing weird directions. Make them turn by selecting them, holding CTRL and clicking towards the direction they are supposed to face.
-The unbuildable terrain makes AoW-Creeping the lab in the west slightly harder than in the west.
-Natural expansions on highground might be too easy to defend (edit: I missed the 7500 gold part. It's ok then).
-There's a creecamp north of the shop which is not on camp stance (i.e. "blue")?

Good stuff: Generally good layout, creeps and itemdrops.

Conclusion: Fix at least the buggy ramps, and as many of the yellow small gaps as possible. Consider if you want to make some further changes to the other things I mentioned. Until then, map set to Awaiting Update.

 

[mafe]

No update in more than 3 months. Therefore map set to substandard.