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Question about submitting other peoples work.

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Level 8
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Hey there.

I just found out that no none has uploaded Med.MapGuy´s great Deandras Tale -campaign here.

All other parts of Joes Quest serie have been uploaded here, so I tought maybe I should upload Deandras Tale too.

What you think? Should I do it? ( Well, Im probably going to do it anyways. )
 
Level 25
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I say upload them. It's great maps, why would anyone want their creation that they've uploaded to several other places, not to be downloaded and played just cause it's from another site? ^_^

Just give him all credit.
 
Level 8
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Actually, I just found it already exist in here. I couldnt find it before, because its not clasified as a campaign.

:grin:
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
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Here's the offical line. Myself, griffen, HINDY, Ralle and a few others written these rules, so if you've got an issue you'd like to bring up about them, best talk to one of us about it.

rules said:
You may only submit maps that either:

* You created, or
* You have the creator's permission to upload here. A map publicly hosted on battle.net is considered permission to upload. However:
o The author can request it to be removed at any time, and
o You must give credit to the original author, and comply with any conditions of previous developers.
+ If you edit an open source map, any edited versions must remain open source, unless you have permission otherwise from the author.

The specific part you will want to look at is this:

* You have the creator's permission to upload here. A map publicly hosted on battle.net is considered permission to upload. However:
o The author can request it to be removed at any time, and
o You must give credit to the original author, and comply with any conditions of previous developers.

And, if it's unprotected--or open source, whichever term you prefer--then, according to the rules:

+ If you edit an open source map, any edited versions must remain open source, unless you have permission otherwise from the author.

Permission is quite hard to prove, so it's probably best just to leave the map unprotected.
 
Level 14
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Rules said:
A map publicly hosted on battle.net is considered permission to upload.
I fail to see how this makes sense. Something being publicly hosted on BNet does not mean they want their maps posted on random websites.
 
Level 14
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Only on the player-end. The difference is vast with regards to what websites people want to be associated with. It's very much like publishing a paper in the physics community. Where you have it published means a lot, regardless if random people will read it no matter where it is hosted.
 
Level 14
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I have always been of the belief that resources should only be submitted by the original author, though it always appeared to me that feeling so has put me in the minority here.
 
Level 27
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Only on the player-end. The difference is vast with regards to what websites people want to be associated with. It's very much like publishing a paper in the physics community. Where you have it published means a lot, regardless if random people will read it no matter where it is hosted.
Hosting a map on Battle.net would be akin to publishing it on Battle.net. After that, your map, or paper, could end up anywhere. You want to get it known don't you? ;D
I cease to understand why we need to have things in our database that weren't submitted by the creator. We want to be showing what we're capable of. We want to show what our users are capable of, not just show the public what's out there. If you want maps/campaigns unavailable, find a site where they are available.
Them's a mighty fine ways of puttin' it.
 
Level 25
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I cease to understand why we need to have things in our database that weren't submitted by the creator. We want to be showing what we're capable of. We want to show what our users are capable of, not just show the public what's out there. If you want maps/campaigns unavailable, find a site where they are available.

Am I the only one who uses the map section to download maps that are fun, not cause to show how good a guy is at making jass?
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
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As long as they give credit to the original author (I.E Author field, where it says 'Created by X, uploaded by Y) then I can't see why there's a problem.

If anything, it'll boost the popularity of the map.
 
Level 14
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Some people have this thing called dignity and don't care for that thing called popularity. If I want my work somewhere, I'll put it there myself, otherwise back the heck off and don't act like you've got my permission when you don't.
 
Level 27
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Am I the only one who uses the map section to download maps that are fun, not cause to show how good a guy is at making jass?
Probably not, but I don't really think Hive should be a random map repository.
As long as they give credit to the original author (I.E Author field, where it says 'Created by X, uploaded by Y) then I can't see why there's a problem.

If anything, it'll boost the popularity of the map.
That's all well and fine for the map, but then the Hive is Just Another Warcraft III Map repository. Why not restrict our maps section to maps our users have made themselves? If someone wants to make their map more popular through our site, they can be a member.
 
Level 14
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No, I really don't.

That people can download my maps on Bnet is because I released the map for play on BNet. If I didn't want it played there, I wouldn't make it public. Dignity is preserved, it is being hosted and made available where I put it. If I want my map downloadable from the Hive, I will put it there. If it is made available there without my permission, then you are denying my rights as map author. This means that I am not being respected as the map creator, which turns the site's resource section into a joke as far as I am concerned.
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
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You're saying the resource section isn't currently a joke anyway? The map moderator issue still hasn't been sorted out, and the amount of unapproved/reviewed maps are still increasing--yet, I digress.

If you host the map on battle.net, it's being released into the public domain. It's not really an issue as to whether it gets uploaded to a site, as it carries the same principle as uploading it to battle.net; it still gets downloaded and played by people. If someone uploads a beta that you don't want released, then it's understandable.

Also, as per rules:

* You have the creator's permission to upload here. A map publicly hosted on battle.net is considered permission to upload. However:
o The author can request it to be removed at any time,

If it really narks an author that his map has been uploaded, he requests it taken down.

I can't really understand why you'd object to having your map uploaded, yet the final 'protocol', as per say, was invented for that exact reason :p
 
Level 27
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I'd rather the Hive provides it's resource sections for our users than it be a dumping place for someone to advertise their map.


Let some other site with dedicated upload be a dumping place.
 
Level 14
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Ash, you're entirely missing my point. X person wants his map on Bnet, he doesn't want it at the Hive. It should be the mapmaker's decision where he wants it posted. This applies to any resource too, not just maps. Dozens upon dozens of resource makers specifically say in their readme's that they do not want the resources uploaded anywhere but X or Y specific site. It really isn't just me that feels this way, it's just I'm the only one saying anything about it.

And yes, the user can request it be taken down, but he shouldn't have to. It should only be up in the first place if he puts it there. Skip the step where the user becomes offended that the site allowed it to happen in the first place.

Not everyone makes maps or resources for them to be popular. Please get that out of your head.
 

Ash

Ash

Level 22
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Ash, you're entirely missing my point. X person wants his map on Bnet, he doesn't want it at the Hive. It should be the mapmaker's decision where he wants it posted. This applies to any resource too, not just maps. Dozens upon dozens of resource makers specifically say in their readme's that they do not want the resources uploaded anywhere but X or Y specific site. It really isn't just me that feels this way, it's just I'm the only one saying anything about it.

And yes, the user can request it be taken down, but he shouldn't have to. It should only be up in the first place if he puts it there. Skip the step where the user becomes offended that the site allowed it to happen in the first place.

Not everyone makes maps or resources for them to be popular. Please get that out of your head.

The problem is, you're making your map available to the public domain. Popularity generated because of that is coincidental. When you release your map to battle.net, it ends up everywhere. Regardless of your readme asking for it not to be submitted, however; that brings me to my next point:

If X says he doesn't want his map uploaded to any site but Y, then that would count as a request for the map to be taken down. This, I can fully understand; I remember a map maker who'd only submitted his map to his site because he wanted to generate a larger userbase.

Although, if the creator doesn't say anything about which sites he wants his map uploaded to--not that he actually holds rights to say so anyway, no copyright is held on maps as they're creating it after accepting blizzards licence agreement; I don't believe you have rights (in a legal sense, I would whole heartedly back your rights as an author) [1]--then the map would be reviewed as it would if the original author submitted it, and it's cases like this that the 'public resource provider' was created for; nobody gets credit for your work, and if you ever do turn up, 'rights' are transferred to you.

All in all, if the creator expressly states that he 'does not want the map uploaded to any website excluding that of N' (or something along the lines of that) there doesn't appear to be any issue.

The site functions as normal; maps get reviewed, people--hopefully--become more literate and the map database grows. It's not just a epicwarbin for maps, as people are actually putting thought into what they write when they download it and, suffice to say, it might actually help the creator when he stumbles upon it.

[1] [Source: Segments from the Licence agreement, quoted ad verbatim] All use of the Editor or any New Materials is subject to this License Agreement.

All title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including, but not limited to, any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and "applets" incorporated into the Program) are owned by Blizzard Entertainment or its licensors.
 
Level 14
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Actually, you'd be surprised how copyrights work. Technically Blizzard owns the map, but certain things within the map can and have in the past been copyrighted individually as intellectual property. This prevents Blizzard from taking the story of the game, for instance, and making their own game using it. Blizzard also isn't averse to these kinds of things, since it's not taking anything away from them. It's sticky, though, and things directly related to the editor or the engine, for instance, are still owned by them. It's really only the more immaterial aspects that are not. Anyways, that really doesn't matter at all, but since you found copyrights somehow relevant I decided to humor you.

Ash said:
The problem is, you're making your map available to the public domain. Popularity generated because of that is coincidental. When you release your map to battle.net, it ends up everywhere. Regardless of your readme asking for it not to be submitted, however; that brings me to my next point:
Regardless if that is true, that is not the respectable nor proper way for a site to handle such things. A respectable WC3 modding community would respect the author enough to not allow a non-author to post it without written permission from the author. Hell, if it were my game to play, I'd attempt to contact the author myself before allowing it to be uploaded by someone else.
Ash said:
If X says he doesn't want his map uploaded to any site but Y, then that would count as a request for the map to be taken down. This, I can fully understand; I remember a map maker who'd only submitted his map to his site because he wanted to generate a larger userbase.
Sounds like the responsible website would take this as the standard to me unless approved otherwise by the author. I don't see why you're against not offending whomever doesn't want their map uploaded to a site, and instead are promoting letting them be offended. There is no logic or rational that makes sense behind your support for the current way of things.
Ash said:
The site functions as normal; maps get reviewed, people--hopefully--become more literate and the map database grows. It's not just a epicwarbin for maps, as people are actually putting thought into what they write when they download it and, suffice to say, it might actually help the creator when he stumbles upon it.
This is utterly irrelevant. What happens in the future is washed out by the fact that there are hundreds upon hundreds of worthless maps already in the database.
 
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