Necromancer Discussion Thread

[Vestra]

So, I thought it would be neat to discuss a few classes since they're underplayed or un-needed in comparison to their alternates.

Necromancers end up with a higher base sp than sorcs, for stronger nukes, but overall they'll probably end up falling short on the dps side of things in future versions. At least I hope so, that only seems fair to a class specifically based around magic, where classes like necromancers can have a more solid work of debuffs and minions.

To cover the skills in work already
Skeletons are awful
They just are, they need a change, or maybe some kind of passive that stacks on them, each hit they make on a unti reduces its armor by 1 up to a maximum of 15, making that skull from shade useful, 5 attacks from skeles, 15 armor down, solid support for the melees involved. Or instead of armor reduced, -shadow resist, support the mage, support what I assume will be future necro skills.

As for the mage, someone mentioned to me that crippling stacks, i.e a bishop could cripple, a monk could cripple and the skele mage would cripple and all the damage would still proc. If someone could confirm that, that would be great. If they don't stack, can we can consider an alternate spell to cripple to put on the mage.



Secondly, future progress of the necro

I'd like to see some daggers in use as opposed to staves, since mages can use daggers and the only bloody one they can use is awful and from d2, lets find some better shit to chuck on them. If necros had daggers that could maybe make a corpse for summons, give them solid hp to use with the golem skill I'll mention later on, or just a general buff to their current direct mage build, maybe they could become a more unique class, like druids have the potential to be. Bone daggers, shadow cloaks, whatever you find necro centred, in the future (i.e. d4), they might help build the class into being more unique that a sorc with 3 useless skeletons spamming water globes.

Daggers could also be used to instantly explode a minion for aoe damage, that would be fun. I forget if the explosion shit is still an upcoming necro skill.


Lastly
A flesh golem
Who doesn't want a flesh golem.
Build off a percentage of your mainstats and at the cost of a chunk of hp
Higher stats mean certain values, i.e your strength will = its hp and base damage, agil = attack speed and evasion, int = its spell strength and resists.

The idea is there it just needs to be discussed, reworked and balanced.
It could bring an interesting build to necros where like the monk, a certain skill is based off stats so varying necro builds will have flesh golems that work differently.


If anyone is all for any of those ideas, I'm open to discussion, hopefully zwieb is and maybe we'll see some positive changes for necros in the future

Because those skeletons are shit
They're just shit.

 

[Ihazdialup]

Agreed, the skeleton Mage is really good though, but the melee ones are shit. 3 of them get in the way more than the wolf. But the flesh golem sounds good, maybe like it requires X amount of skeletons to create the golem, or use them as a quick self heal and/or buff. They in my opinion should be suicidal instead of having them attack rather be a potion or buff ready to go. I mean that 3 damage per skeleton isn't gonna save you but a quick small heal or buff might.

 

[LanderZ]

I disagree with most of the points.

Skellies get bonus damage, HP and armor based on caster's level (60 +4 HP/lvl, +1 dmg / 2 lvls, and +1 armor / 4 lvls). 3 of the hacking away is substantial, though not great. Depends on their ArP.

Their resistances are insane. A level 30 Necro's skellies can tank Inferno from Lady without any hastle (and that's 180 hp of critter, taking under 100 dmg). No complaints there.

They aren't meant to truly tank, but moreso increase damage output by a mediocre fashion, in addition to your normal casts. They do this well. And Skellie mage bases its spells off of your SP, which is even better (don't know it's stat gains, yet, beyond armor being the same as Skellies).

Depending on the new spells (bone explosion and some kind of vampire curse), Necro's should be easily able to outstrip Sorc's.

 

[Vestra]

Although they can tank spells and get bonuses, they round out to be roughly useless in the long run, they don't need to be extremely durable considering the number but a bit more damage output wouldn't hurt. I'll trial a necro and consider your points Landerz.

 

[Tsumo]

I would like if Minions (like Wolve Skeletons ect.) could make more threat (settings) to use them as blocking unit(s).
Even the most enemy runs to skeleton mage to attack him before attacking the necro.
You can test if u move necro a little out of battle.

 

[Vestra]

It would be good if skeletons generated some hefty agro but when it comes down to zwiebs balancing I imagine he'd go with the fact that the enemy wants to kill the squishy mage hitting hard before the frustrating but ultimately useless skeletons in front of it

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I think you wouldn't be satisfied with the skeletons dealing threat. Technically, you don't want the skeletons to pull aggro, as they die too fast. Also, if they could tank, necromancer could become too overpowered in solo-play very fast. Keep that in mind when discussing balancing. Most of the time people suggest things that might be balanced in dungeons when playing as a team, but not when playing solo. A "tanking" pet will fuck up the whole balancing in solo play.
Skeletons are meant as a dps boost and they do fine, if you ask me. On my level 38 necromancer, all my skeletons do a 17 damage per hit on bosses flat cause of their armor penetration. With a swing timer of like 2 seconds, this easily adds up to 50 dps for the melee skeletons alone. And this goes without the skeleton mage which deals at least 50-60 dps on its own.

 

[Vestra]

I think you wouldn't be satisfied with the skeletons dealing threat. Technically, you don't want the skeletons to pull aggro, as they die too fast. Also, if they could tank, necromancer could become too overpowered in solo-play very fast. Keep that in mind when discussing balancing. Most of the time people suggest things that might be balanced in dungeons when playing as a team, but not when playing solo. A "tanking" pet will fuck up the whole balancing in solo play.
Skeletons are meant as a dps boost and they do fine, if you ask me. On my level 38 necromancer, all my skeletons do a 17 damage per hit on bosses flat cause of their armor penetration. With a swing timer of like 2 seconds, this easily adds up to 50 dps for the melee skeletons alone. And this goes without the skeleton mage which deals at least 50-60 dps on its own.

The game isn't really meant to be balanced for solo play, is it? Even so, certain classes can solo early bosses, and some can't. Bishops can solo d2, some druids can, no other class can, simply because of their heal outputs against the lack of such.

Can you confirm the whole cripple stacking thing please? and does this work with all DoT, like gaping, poison damage, stacked incinerates etc.

 

[Tsumo]

the skeletons ignores targets armor?

i would suggest that u change the text of Inscribed Skull because of no more skeleton mage than 1

 

[Vestra]

the skeletons ignores targets armor?

i would suggest that u change the text of Inscribed Skull because of no more skeleton mage than 1

Or just '+1 Skeleton Minion'

 

[Zwiebelchen]

The game isn't really meant to be balanced for solo play, is it? Even so, certain classes can solo early bosses, and some can't. Bishops can solo d2, some druids can, no other class can, simply because of their heal outputs against the lack of such.

Can you confirm the whole cripple stacking thing please? and does this work with all DoT, like gaping, poison damage, stacked incinerates etc.

All single target DoTs stack. Incinerate, however, does not stack.

 

[Tsumo]

Minion is for myself just +1 skeleton...can be fighter or mage

All single target DoTs stack. Incinerate, however, does not stack.

Whats with Incinerate + Meteor (DoT)

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Whats with Incinerate + Meteor (DoT)

Meteor does not have a DoT component.

All debuffs that are not of the same kind always stack.
All damage single-target debuffs of the same kind stack too.
Incinerate is the only exception to this.

 

[Tsumo]

Whats with cripple curse from cleric and skeleton mage?
Do they stack? Is the stronger one activ or can it be that mage weaker ones works but clerics not?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Whats with cripple curse from cleric and skeleton mage?
Do they stack? Is the stronger one activ or can it be that mage weaker ones works but clerics not?

>>>> ALL <<<< damage debuffs stack, except incinerate!

 

[lNVlNClBLE]

>>>> ALL <<<< damage debuffs stack, except incinerate!

^Rofl. Good to know, though.