Vendro the Wind Mage Bann
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2022
- Messages
- 60
My Player Experience
I tried playing this tonight and ended up staying up late trying to clear the entire map. This was a wild ride! Although it was not without a few rough patches, my first thoughts while playing are that this map made me feel like a kid again. The first time that I played I accidentally let Kath'ranis die right as I accessed to the Way Gate to leave, and I didn't realize that I might be able to revive him later so I exited the mission and restarted. He was killed by the very last enemy, the Infernal Machine!
Later I realized that maybe if I had just proceeded onward with Aleodosa and built an altar it might have been fine. I did not realize that the first time through.
After exiting that first time, I loaded a save of the game near the start with just Aleodosa when I was worried she might get killed, and then I was more careful. I saved the Demonic Figurine until the end of that area with the Infernal Machine at the WayGate, and then I killed him using the summoned Doom Guard.
During the introductory section, whenever I would free the Warlock to take him home and the two characters would chat, my screen was filled with text and I did not think I would have time to read it -- and combat was going on while the screen was filled with the text. So what I did in that case was to pause the game by opening the Log and reading the text, then closing the log and continuing my gameplay session after I was done reading. So, although some players might feel like too many cinematics can make a map "slow", honestly I think that if you can practice a bit with the Trigger Editor and figure out how to do an ingame cinematic after Aleodosa frees Kath'ranis this might go a long way towards making it easier for players like me to digest all the text on the screen. It does not feel like as much text if the player sees it line by line in an ingame cinematic. Flip side of that, though, is that it takes a little longer in World Editor to create that on your side. You might want to play around with the Camera Palette in World Editor for that as well.
After I finished the introductory portion of the mission and reached the part where the player can build a base, I captured the buildings down in the south and using them to make units until I almost ran out of money. I looked at the allied base workers to see what I was missing, and then realized the text on the screen told me to buy a Felguard mercenary and I did not do it. So I went back and bought a Felguard with my remaining gold but I did not have enough money to build a town hall building with the Felguard after that, and I got worried that I might be stuck because I had already collected the gold coins and then spent them on units at the capturable buildings in the south. It worked out in the end because I killed the lava spawned hiding below the cliff near the southern Fountain of Health, and those lava spawns barely got me the money I needed to build the town hall building and then I could continue playing after that. In my opinion, I might suggest adding a Trigger that once the Warlock is brought home to the Mistress, then maybe it rewards the player with a free Felguard and says "build a base" more directly so someone silly like me can't mess it up. It's up to you though -- since I was able to work it out, maybe it's fine as it is.
Once I had the base things went pretty well for me and I cleared away a lot of the southern parts of the map and forgot about the northern parts. However, when I got to the tight tunnel pathway south of Mephisto I started to doubt whether there would be any good way for me to defeat the enemies and so I spammed building a lot of Demon Gate buildings right outside the tight tunnel there, and then I created troops right next to Mephisto with a lot of gold that I had until I could eventually just take him down by repleneshing my numbers constantly and stuff. This took me a while, and I did all of that while forgetting to do the northern quests to get the items and stuff to make it easier to face Mephisto.
So then after I had killed Mephisto using mostly Maiden of Pain units because they were ranged and could silence enemies and stuff, and also were high enough level that they were immune to Charm, after this I did the map backwards on accident and went up to kill the Void and the Legion up in the north.
Because the gameplay had gone on for this long, I had a really hard time killing those guys. For the Legion I drained through 100000 gold of units just sending stuff at them over and over and it turned out to be fruitless and wasted all of my gold. At this point I was getting kind of tired and would have appreciated probably if the game balance was different so that it was not so exhausting to keep fighting these guys. There base was filled with many units, probably more than what was intended, and their Pit Lord units outclassed anything that I could create it seemed like because they had more than 100 chaos damage.
I suppose I was feeling stubborn, however, so I decided to defeat the endless hordes of heroic-looking nonhero units in this northern base. I ended up using Kath'ranis to basically aggro these demons away from their base a few at a time then try to kill them all outside of their critical mass ball of enemies, because if I attacked them head on even with a 100 food fully upgraded army then my army would usually dissolve in literally a matter of seconds (so it felt very pointless to attack head-on).
In the meantime while this was going on, even though I had killed the Void enemies they kept spawning more Faceless ones seemingly out of nowhere as far as I could tell, and those kept attacking my ally who did a good job defending which was very nice.
Back when I did the Void quest I accidentally triggered the quest twice, and it created the Quest in the Quest Log listed twice. I think this was because the Trigger to create the quest probably has "Turn off (this trigger)" at the bottom of it and not as the first Action. So I was able to fire that trigger twice fast at the start of when it would setup.
That also meant that after I killed the Forgotten One there was a second Forgotten One immediately spawned in on top of it even though the quests congratulated me for killing it. So that fight was also harder and more exhausting for my units probably than what was intended.
So all in all I had a good time but I was really ready for it to be over at the end there because I didn't feel like my techtree had something for me to invest in to really be able to beat the large massed enemies in any fast or efficient way.
Bugs
Suggestions
That's all from me for now. Maybe I'll post some more if I think of it. This map was a creative single player experience for me which was just the type of map I was looking for, so thanks again for making it! I know these things can take time to get right, and players like me never quite do what the map developer intended.
I tried playing this tonight and ended up staying up late trying to clear the entire map. This was a wild ride! Although it was not without a few rough patches, my first thoughts while playing are that this map made me feel like a kid again. The first time that I played I accidentally let Kath'ranis die right as I accessed to the Way Gate to leave, and I didn't realize that I might be able to revive him later so I exited the mission and restarted. He was killed by the very last enemy, the Infernal Machine!
Later I realized that maybe if I had just proceeded onward with Aleodosa and built an altar it might have been fine. I did not realize that the first time through.
After exiting that first time, I loaded a save of the game near the start with just Aleodosa when I was worried she might get killed, and then I was more careful. I saved the Demonic Figurine until the end of that area with the Infernal Machine at the WayGate, and then I killed him using the summoned Doom Guard.
During the introductory section, whenever I would free the Warlock to take him home and the two characters would chat, my screen was filled with text and I did not think I would have time to read it -- and combat was going on while the screen was filled with the text. So what I did in that case was to pause the game by opening the Log and reading the text, then closing the log and continuing my gameplay session after I was done reading. So, although some players might feel like too many cinematics can make a map "slow", honestly I think that if you can practice a bit with the Trigger Editor and figure out how to do an ingame cinematic after Aleodosa frees Kath'ranis this might go a long way towards making it easier for players like me to digest all the text on the screen. It does not feel like as much text if the player sees it line by line in an ingame cinematic. Flip side of that, though, is that it takes a little longer in World Editor to create that on your side. You might want to play around with the Camera Palette in World Editor for that as well.
After I finished the introductory portion of the mission and reached the part where the player can build a base, I captured the buildings down in the south and using them to make units until I almost ran out of money. I looked at the allied base workers to see what I was missing, and then realized the text on the screen told me to buy a Felguard mercenary and I did not do it. So I went back and bought a Felguard with my remaining gold but I did not have enough money to build a town hall building with the Felguard after that, and I got worried that I might be stuck because I had already collected the gold coins and then spent them on units at the capturable buildings in the south. It worked out in the end because I killed the lava spawned hiding below the cliff near the southern Fountain of Health, and those lava spawns barely got me the money I needed to build the town hall building and then I could continue playing after that. In my opinion, I might suggest adding a Trigger that once the Warlock is brought home to the Mistress, then maybe it rewards the player with a free Felguard and says "build a base" more directly so someone silly like me can't mess it up. It's up to you though -- since I was able to work it out, maybe it's fine as it is.
Once I had the base things went pretty well for me and I cleared away a lot of the southern parts of the map and forgot about the northern parts. However, when I got to the tight tunnel pathway south of Mephisto I started to doubt whether there would be any good way for me to defeat the enemies and so I spammed building a lot of Demon Gate buildings right outside the tight tunnel there, and then I created troops right next to Mephisto with a lot of gold that I had until I could eventually just take him down by repleneshing my numbers constantly and stuff. This took me a while, and I did all of that while forgetting to do the northern quests to get the items and stuff to make it easier to face Mephisto.
So then after I had killed Mephisto using mostly Maiden of Pain units because they were ranged and could silence enemies and stuff, and also were high enough level that they were immune to Charm, after this I did the map backwards on accident and went up to kill the Void and the Legion up in the north.
Because the gameplay had gone on for this long, I had a really hard time killing those guys. For the Legion I drained through 100000 gold of units just sending stuff at them over and over and it turned out to be fruitless and wasted all of my gold. At this point I was getting kind of tired and would have appreciated probably if the game balance was different so that it was not so exhausting to keep fighting these guys. There base was filled with many units, probably more than what was intended, and their Pit Lord units outclassed anything that I could create it seemed like because they had more than 100 chaos damage.
I suppose I was feeling stubborn, however, so I decided to defeat the endless hordes of heroic-looking nonhero units in this northern base. I ended up using Kath'ranis to basically aggro these demons away from their base a few at a time then try to kill them all outside of their critical mass ball of enemies, because if I attacked them head on even with a 100 food fully upgraded army then my army would usually dissolve in literally a matter of seconds (so it felt very pointless to attack head-on).
In the meantime while this was going on, even though I had killed the Void enemies they kept spawning more Faceless ones seemingly out of nowhere as far as I could tell, and those kept attacking my ally who did a good job defending which was very nice.
Back when I did the Void quest I accidentally triggered the quest twice, and it created the Quest in the Quest Log listed twice. I think this was because the Trigger to create the quest probably has "Turn off (this trigger)" at the bottom of it and not as the first Action. So I was able to fire that trigger twice fast at the start of when it would setup.
That also meant that after I killed the Forgotten One there was a second Forgotten One immediately spawned in on top of it even though the quests congratulated me for killing it. So that fight was also harder and more exhausting for my units probably than what was intended.
So all in all I had a good time but I was really ready for it to be over at the end there because I didn't feel like my techtree had something for me to invest in to really be able to beat the large massed enemies in any fast or efficient way.
Bugs
- The loading screen said "SIGE" instead of "SIEGE", seems like I typo
- For me there was some bizarre flickering ingame. I did not understand why it was happening and it might have only been my computer. It was unusual for me.
- Summon Fellguard tooltip is spelled "Fellguard" in the tooltip text, but summons a unit with a different spelling on its name "Felguard".
- In the dialogue between Aleodosa and Kath'ranis early on, they refer to "sargeras" but do not capitalize his name as "Sargeras". I think it should be capitalized
- The dimensional gate demon town hall building for the enemies died and then did not explode or anything. Visually it just kept showing its model there even though the unit was dead. I think there's a way you can fix that -- maybe you could ask someone on Hive to change the 3d model and fix it or something like that
- Void Intervention quest is able to be created twice when my unit enters the region twice
- Demon Gate can build on top of itself. There's a way in Unit Editor to make it so that it can only build on "buildable" ground I believe
- Faceless one armies kept attacking my ally even after I killed the Forgotten One (maybe related to the 2x Void Intervention quest bug?)
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[*]In this picture, the Gold Coins that I have my mouse hovering over is not obtainable by the hero because the location is blocked by all the Pile of Treasure doodads
[*]
Suggestions
- I think that thematically it feels "cool" that all the units in the game have chaos damage, but I think it actually also leads towards simpler gameplay where the unit with the biggest damage number wins. In this case that was my enemy, and so I could only beat him but just repeatedly attacking his standing army over and over by the end. If you spend more time on this map, one option would be to keep the idea that all damages are demonic and chaos, but to use the original Warcraft III damage type system with new names for the damage type. For example, maybe "Pierce" damage could be "Piercing Chaos" damage, and "Normal" damage could instead be "Normal Chaos" damage with some custom icons. That way thematically all the units attacks still look like fiery and awesome, but it might become easier to have specializations to how the units fight like in the base melee Warcraft 3 gameplay.
- I thought it would be cool if you customize the "Art - Button Position" setting on the demon town hall upgrades and stuff, so that the buttons didn't shuffle around quite as much
- I think that there should be a trigger in the map that causes Victory to popup and end the game. As far as I could tell this did not happen for me. That might have been because I played a little bit out of order, but I do not know. When I killed Mephisto I did not win or anything.
- Gameplay was really different for me because endgame seemed to revolve a lot around both sides silencing each other's spellcasters who all had crazy spells. I felt like my job became finding the best strongest unit for the given food cost because getting the other resources was pretty easy, and I spammed Maiden of Pains a lot because they seemed to have a lot of good going for them. It was different and that was kind of really cool also, but I feel like there might be a way to add some gameplay depth to the different type of available units that I'm just not describing very well at the moment. Maybe a good way to improve this would be to get input from other users and see what they say about it.
That's all from me for now. Maybe I'll post some more if I think of it. This map was a creative single player experience for me which was just the type of map I was looking for, so thanks again for making it! I know these things can take time to get right, and players like me never quite do what the map developer intended.
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