Map Section issues {A message to all map "reviewers".}

[ap0calypse]

Really? I would have sworn it grew :/

Yeah, a little ^^
But the difference in amount of uploaded maps isn't that great, I said it was about 7 uploaded maps/day now (that's a bit of a guess) while it used to be 6.5 or something last year (even more of a guess ).

What did change is the quality of uploaded maps, I can still remember that there were more really low-quality maps a year ago, which are obviously easier to moderate.
So the community grew a little tiny bit and they became better at modding :/

 

[Pyritie]

But the problem with that is not many people are going to find time to do this, its so much easier to be negative.

That's a shitty way of thinking about this and you know it.

 

[The World Is Flat]

I'm not saying i like it or that it isnt a shitty way to think, But i belive it is true, Its easier, and for some people, funner to troll and be negative.

 

[Pyritie]

That doesn't mean you're justified in doing it. It still isn't allowed.

 

[The World Is Flat]

No it shoulden't be allowed. And no i dont agree with that at all.

 

[Boris_Spider]

I can't think of anyone that could be a map moderator currently anyway, and also 2 moderators are enough as long as the Map Reviewers do reviews and then send the maps links to moderators.

So again I think there should be more mods in the map section... at least 4, and there're 2 major reasons why:
-More quality reviews would be made on maps, because they would have more time to focus on 1 single map.
-Maps would be faster approved-rejected.

The moderators are obligated to write reviews? Normally, that would be done by content staff/community.

I think we're all going about this the wrong way by complicating the hell out of what is really necessary.

Problem:

It's expected that map mods review maps. The problem lies not in that mods are expected to review, but what they're expected to review. From reading all of the posts in here, people are asing the mods to rate gameplay, which takes multiple plays with min. required number of players. Obviously, it isn't possible for them to do this.

Solution:

Have mods focus on reviewing a map's functionality.
Break it down like this,

-Triggers
~Are there any leaks? Note their types (unit group/effect/location/etc...).

-Terrain
~Are there any obvious pathing issues, floating water, or holes along cliffs?
It's ridiculous to expect a masterpiece terrain for each map. It isn't realistic for some gametypes (shouldn't take more then 5 min)

-Gameplay
~Are there any Tech-tree problems or Hot Key conflicts? Mods can list obvious unit imbalances, but shouldn't be expected to hunt them down.
~Are there any bad icons? (green icons)
Most of these can be checked in single player with several cheats (warpten and resource cheats).
---------------------------------

In theory, this is how the map resource section is run.

For rating maps, mods rely on user feedback. If there is a consistent trend, then they rate in accordance. Now we run into the problem of non-existant user reviews.

By having mods focus on function rather then function and fashion, they'll be able to keep up with the map uploads. I'm not saying they should never perform in-depth reviews, but rather they should only do so upon request of the submitter and recommendations from users. (This is where additional mods will come in handy)

I imagine that recommended/highly recommended maps are declared as such in this manner.

Stop glorifying the "Map Reviewers"... they're just users. Their opinions hold no more sway than any other user.

//\\oo//\\

 

[ap0calypse]

I do want to agree with you, but there are some minor flaws in what you said
Maybe you just mixed up terms, I don't know, but here is how it goes:

I moderate maps by testing their functionality and/or the rules and/or user comments (you said review).
I review maps by playing the game (a few times if necessary), because a review should give as much information as possible.
And I rate the map only if I give a complete review (which is based completely on my own experience).

In-depth reviews are very rare though :/ it just drains too much time (exactly what you said ).

 

[Boris_Spider]

I do want to agree with you, but there are some minor flaws in what you said
Maybe you just mixed up terms, I don't know, but here is how it goes:

I moderate maps by testing their functionality and/or the rules and/or user comments (you said review).
I review maps by playing the game (a few times if necessary), because a review should give as much information as possible.
And I rate the map only if I give a complete review (which is based completely on my own experience).

In-depth reviews are very rare though :/ it just drains too much time (exactly what you said ).

It seems I was using review and moderate interchangably... ::/ Then again, all of the arguements do the eexact same thing.

Mods moderate (determine if the map functions, not if it's "fun"). Mods can review the map if the submitter requests it and other users recommend it.

There, hopefully what I'm saying is clearer.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Devine]

Reporting a bad review that doesn't follow the rules should be awarded.
Reported reviews should be deleted and the user should be punished.
What y'all think?

 

[Ramza]

This is not 100% on topic, but I think moderators shouldn't waste their time on checking the triggers of each map. If the leaks are really bad, you'll notice during gameplay. If not, then the triggers are good enough.

Reporting a bad review that doesn't follow the rules should be awarded.
Reported reviews should be deleted and the user should be punished.
What y'all think?

Sounds good to me.

 

[ap0calypse]

Reporting a bad review that doesn't follow the rules should be awarded.
Reported reviews should be deleted and the user should be punished.
What y'all think?

Following the rules is nearly never awarded (it's like when you stop for red light, a police drives by and says "good for you! Have a dollar!").
Although 'reporting' is slightly different, it never got awarded, thus I don't see why it should now.
But reviews that do not follow the 'rules' will be punished (saying "bad gameplay, bad terrain, bad triggers 0/5" for example, will result in a warning => -1 rep => -3 rep).
Constructive reviews, on the other hand, will be awarded

 

[Boris_Spider]

Reporting a bad review that doesn't follow the rules should be awarded.
Reported reviews should be deleted and the user should be punished.
What y'all think?

Reporting posts shouldn't be awarded, it would only incease the number of posts reported, irregardless of whether or not they're actually 'bad posts.'

//\\oo//\\

 

[Icedrake]

/flameguard activate How is this fair?

Type: None >> Fix (Rules violation[1])
Author: Unknown >> Fix (Rules violation[2])
Description >> Improve it (Rules violation[3])

3 rules violation = Instant Rejection (1/5)

Link to where he posted this:http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/journey-2-a-180803/

I highly doubt he even bothered to try out the map before giving such a rating. He is giving really no constructive criticism, only saying that you're breaking the rules and you need to fix it. Why not tell the guy how to fix it? Especially his review of the description; all he is saying is that it is breaking the rules and that the author needs to improve it. Why not say how to improve it? In my opinion, a rating of 1/5 was completely unnecessary, when all he did was look at the description and not at the map itself.

It seems a lot of so called map "reviewers" are doing this lately. They aren't actually reviewing the map by looking at it and testing it out. All they do is look at the description, say the map sucks and give it a horrible rating, like how Barathrum did above. People should actually test out the map first, unless the map contains things that aren't allowed at Hive. /flameguard deactivate

 

[Boris_Spider]

How is this fair?


Link to where he posted this:http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/journey-2-a-180803/

I highly doubt he even bothered to try out the map before giving such a rating. He is giving really no constructive criticism, only saying that you're breaking the rules and you need to fix it. Why not tell the guy how to fix it? Especially his review of the description; all he is saying is that it is breaking the rules and that the author needs to improve it. Why not say how to improve it?

It seems a lot of so called map "reviewers" are doing this lately. They aren't actually reviewing the map by looking at it and testing it out. All they do is look at the description, say the map sucks and give it a horrible rating, like how Barathrum did above. People should actually test out the map first.

Posting user names isn't a good idea. The fact we know who the abusers are is enough. Identifying them encourages them to continue doing what they are doing. It also isn't just 1-2 users doing this. Granted there are 5-6 primary ones, but we're trying to come up with solutions, not point fingers.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Ironside]

/flameguard activate How is this fair?


Link to where he posted this:http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/journey-2-a-180803/

I highly doubt he even bothered to try out the map before giving such a rating. He is giving really no constructive criticism, only saying that you're breaking the rules and you need to fix it. Why not tell the guy how to fix it? Especially his review of the description; all he is saying is that it is breaking the rules and that the author needs to improve it. Why not say how to improve it? In my opinion, a rating of 1/5 was completely unnecessary, when all he did was look at the description and not at the map itself.

It seems a lot of so called map "reviewers" are doing this lately. They aren't actually reviewing the map by looking at it and testing it out. All they do is look at the description, say the map sucks and give it a horrible rating, like how Barathrum did above. People should actually test out the map first, unless the map contains things that aren't allowed at Hive. /flameguard deactivate

Was some time ago, check my newest reviews before posting public names.

 

[Icedrake]

Hmm... I didn't realize it was last month, which isn't too old. I will look at your newest reviews then.

 

[MasterHaosis]

hehe talking about maps... I got Zombie's point. And get back in 2008 since I was map moderator. I have seen so much flaming there, and Ralle was forced to give to us map moderators ability to moderate posts too.
I have seen comments such as: ,,And you are calling this shit a map?" ,,This map is totally crap" and such... People do not check often maps, so they were perfect place for spaming and fights, I had to merge, delete lot of posts, and report to Ralle additionaly (each my action was report to ralle by me personally, as proof what I am doing).
So even then people insulted map authors instead of giving constructive criticism!

However at some point I have to agree with some people, especially with Ralle when says:,,Kill it!" when sees a map called ,,Just another War Craft Map"... Really I have seen totally blank and not working maps. Even I, who was ,,soft" at punishing and rejecting resources, I had to reject a tons of maps, and punish (by spreading neg reps) violators who trolled map author!.
Also, there was another problem, I do not if still exist here, Zombie did not meant that, was down rating resources. Person A hates Person B and goes to his map with his friends and give 1 rating to map. Person B then goes to person A's map and spread with his friends 1 rating! And he comes downrating war... I had special job with that to search resources for down rating. I found so many persons that have in downrating list many reosurces rated by1. For example, he rated 8 resources, all of them was 1, obviously guy is down rater. And Ralle and I deal with them fine. But its not topic now, I mention only to inform you that even then we had such problems.
So I see that here are still problems of violating rules by writing a ,,review"

 

[Ramza]

Why aren't you a map moderator anymore? This site needs them badly.

 

[Garfield1337]

I recently posted a very useless comment on a map,which i got a warning for. But the guy posted blizzard's worm war map,which had no changes and wasn't on english. Though atleast i'm not going to repeat it.

 

[Boris_Spider]

Really I have seen totally blank and not working maps. Even I, who was ,,soft" at punishing and rejecting resources, I had to reject a tons of maps, and punish (by spreading neg reps) violators who trolled map author!.
Also, there was another problem, I do not if still exist here, Zombie did not meant that, was down rating resources. Person A hates Person B and goes to his map with his friends and give 1 rating to map. Person B then goes to person A's map and spread with his friends 1 rating! And he comes downrating war... I had special job with that to search resources for down rating. I found so many persons that have in downrating list many reosurces rated by1. For example, he rated 8 resources, all of them was 1, obviously guy is down rater. And Ralle and I deal with them fine. But its not topic now, I mention only to inform you that even then we had such problems.
So I see that here are still problems of violating rules by writing a ,,review"

Blank and not-working maps should be removed. If they were supposed to be WiPs, you already have the Map Development Thread for those maps.

I just recently enjoyed the company of a raging downrater, not very nice. I'm not sure what to do about them though. Should we report all those who rate maps 1 because they failed utterly at the game or entirely hate the genre?

Why aren't you a map moderator anymore? This site needs them badly.

We do need more map mods. The pending list is growing and I don't see much being done by the mods (not sure if it's an issue of whether they can't or won't), but it's been stated before that 2 map mods aren't enough. If it was, we wouldn't have 10 or so pages of pending maps (most of which have no mod comments what-so-ever).

Mod reviews aren't really done anymore either, not that I can tell. The reason for that is obvious though. Hence the need for more mods.

As for game preferences, most users won't inspect map genres they don't like. For example, I don't check out RPGs or any of their variations. Wouldn't it make sense to have a mod or two for several of the 20 map types we have available for selection? Why have mods reviews game-types they don't like/enjoy?

I.E.
Mods 1,2: Melee, Altered Melee, AoS, RISK, Arena/Hero-Arena
Mods 3,4: LOAP, RPG, CTF, TD, FPS
Mods 5,6: Terrain, Cinematic, Other, Offense, Footman Frenzy
Mods 7,8: Campaign, Defense, Escape, Minigame

The combined categories could be different, but you get the idea

//\\oo//\\

 

[MasterHaosis]

Boris_Spider I do not know about current policy about downrating. In past it was my job to search for downraters, delete downratings and punish offenders, report to Ralle specially so he can punish them harder.
I think that nobody does that anymore, nobody is looking for downratings!

Why aren't you a map moderator anymore? This site needs them badly.

I do not know if site needs them, I came back yesterday after some inactivity.
And why am I not map moderator anymore, that complex question. Well long story and passed long time, so cannot tell you exactly. But I was enough of job, i have real life, new staff came and such...

I recently posted a very useless comment on a map,which i got a warning for. But the guy posted blizzard's worm war map,which had no changes and wasn't on english. Though atleast i'm not going to repeat it.

Hmm.... map which doesnot follow rules, this is problem here. Is that map approved or what?

 

[ap0calypse]

Why aren't you a map moderator anymore? This site needs them badly.

And why am I not map moderator anymore, that complex question. Well long story and passed long time, so cannot tell you exactly. But I was enough of job, i have real life, new staff came and such...

Hahah, honestly... I don't even know it was possible for you to get on the hive ever again xD
Good to see you back, MH! (I guess only the classic members will remember your story not, not the newer ones).

I recently posted a very useless comment on a map,which i got a warning for. But the guy posted blizzard's worm war map,which had no changes and wasn't on english. Though atleast i'm not going to repeat it.

Hmm.... map which doesnot follow rules, this is problem here. Is that map approved or what?

No, it wasn't approved :O
But it's just that the rules are there for everyone: you need to be polite to both people who created an awesome map and those who created a bad map

I don't want to bias anyone, neutral is the way to go


Welcome back, MH! (I'm still surprised you're really on the hive... O_O)

Edit: I just wanted to add that, from time to time, it's really hard to say constructive things when the author has uploaded several maps that were of a really low quality, in that case: I always check other maps made by the same author, so you just need to comment on one map and I'll find them all ^^

 

[Ramza]

Hahah, honestly... I don't even know it was possible for you to get on the hive ever again xD
Good to see you back, MH! (I guess only the classic members will remember your story not, not the newer ones).

Well, I'm a member since 2005. And I don't remember. xO

 

[RiotZ]

Hahah, honestly... I don't even know it was possible for you to get on the hive ever again xD
Good to see you back, MH! (I guess only the classic members will remember your story not, not the newer ones).




No, it wasn't approved :O
But it's just that the rules are there for everyone: you need to be polite to both people who created an awesome map and those who created a bad map

I don't want to bias anyone, neutral is the way to go


Welcome back, MH! (I'm still surprised you're really on the hive... O_O)

Edit: I just wanted to add that, from time to time, it's really hard to say constructive things when the author has uploaded several maps that were of a really low quality, in that case: I always check other maps made by the same author, so you just need to comment on one map and I'll find them all ^^

I can remember the tale of Haosis, a hero among cockroaches he was.

 

[ap0calypse]

Well, I'm a member since 2005. And I don't remember. xO

'Active' member?
It surprises me that you've never even heard of the Haosis-smile (biggrin), or the legacy he left... which kinda meant his own destruction on the hive (exactly the reason it surprises me he's back).

But that's off-topic, if you've got nothing more to say about map reviewing or anything related, please don't say anything

 

[Boris_Spider]

Earlier, I posted an idea to help the map section. It consisted of adding several moderators and limiting what types of maps they moderate. Ideally, mods would moderate map genres they don't hate.

Mods 1,2: Melee, Altered Melee, AoS, RISK, Arena/Hero-Arena
Mods 3,4: LOAP, RPG, CTF, TD, FPS
Mods 5,6: Terrain, Cinematic, Other, Offense, Footman Frenzy
Mods 7,8: Campaign, Defense, Escape, Minigame

What are your views on this?

//\\o0//\\

 

[MasterHaosis]

Hahah, honestly... I don't even know it was possible for you to get on the hive ever again xD

Man I was here all time... Remember user Desolator? Boris_Spider knows.
But I rarely visited site, I had real life and college too.

Good to see you back, MH!

Thanks man! I am glad to see you too!

(I guess only the classic members will remember your story not, not the newer ones).

What is the most interesting, even new members, some of them heard a stories and legends about me, and know me very well. At least in chat.
And you know that I am capable of quick adapting, so new guys are no problem to me, I met lot of them and talk to them already active! haha
I did that in old times remember?

No, it wasn't approved :O
But it's just that the rules are there for everyone: you need to be polite to both people who created an awesome map and those who created a bad map

I know that. I was always same, not matter if someone is expert of mapping or new guy. I tested over 1000 maps (there are records of it) and I did not have any problem with anyone in map section. Can you believe that?
Only in one map, first day at job, some idiot insulted me because I rejected his map. Except that map, I never ever have any problem there or some complainant against me.
Some people were just complain how I approved lot of garbage in Map section.
Well, rules were there just soft. Simply, map mustn't contain viruses, mustn't be stolen and authors of resources must be credited! Thats why we had to approve everything else! But you would be surprised how many maps we rejected them, especially me. People can see only approved ,,garbage", cannot see rejected. At least then.

Welcome back, MH! (I'm still surprised you're really on the hive... O_O)

Thanks you man, I really appreciate that!

Edit: I just wanted to add that, from time to time, it's really hard to say constructive things when the author has uploaded several maps that were of a really low quality, in that case: I always check other maps made by the same author, so you just need to comment on one map and I'll find them all ^^

Well,true that! You have point here.

'Active' member?

I do not know him too.

It surprises me that you've never even heard of the Haosis-smile (biggrin), or the legacy he left...

Hahahaha, legacy!

which kinda meant his own destruction on the hive

Hey hey, what destruction? I am here, I was here.
And now when back people still came to greet me, not just you. Look at my visitor messages last two days. or to show you my PMs. Like I am clone of Obama, to have such greetings and cheers here! Which means here is no destruction! its all faked muahaha!

(exactly the reason it surprises me he's back).

And you will get surprised man! You still need to learn.... kid hahahaha!

But that's off-topic, if you've got nothing more to say about map reviewing or anything related, please don't say anything

Really I havenot seen latest reviews. probably they are as always.

I can remember the tale of Haosis, a hero among cockroaches he was.

Yeah, new people only remember tales, stories and legends wroten by elder here! But you do not look like new guy, I think I know you from before!

Well, I'm a member since 2005. And I don't remember. xO

Sadly! hehe joking.

 

[Septimus]

Earlier, I posted an idea to help the map section. It consisted of adding several moderators and limiting what types of maps they moderate. Ideally, mods would moderate map genres they don't hate.

This is generally a terrible idea. No offense, but specific genre are extremely easy to be review/evaluate as it was simple or require little to none testing at all such as template and cinematic.

For example, we could have 5 mod for aos and cinematic genre; but the time it took for moderating an cinematic depends on the length of the movies while aos require testing in every aspect such as balance, skill and etc etc.

We might have more mod for genre that are popular, but it won't curb the issues of map being piled up if the time it took to moderate are long.

 

[Septimus]

Ok, pardon me for making a new post instead of editing. But I am trying to voice out my opinion in this issues in rather lengthy sentences.

First of all, this issues have been resurrected over and over again and certainly isn't new. To begin with, an in depth review are certainly useful and helpful to newbie as they certainly do improve their performances in map making.

However, the problem lies on the newbie itself when they misinterpret the post as offensive and trolling and then (You know what the shit goes on next, they troll the map reviewer). This certainly isn't new when you can see the same user constantly post map without giving an appropriate description or gone berserk by posting porn/spam map just because they been told the description are not appropriate and breaking the site rules.

This has certainly kill the will of the map reviewer to help the newbie in the future by posting an much details reviews. They either report it to moderator to reject it due to rules violation, ignore it or just wrote a brief note of what's wrong with it.

On the other hand, some map reviewer should be blame as well because their post contain sarcastic remarks. Some newbie especially those kid could not differentiate between sarcasm and troll, thus they assume the map reviewer was flaming them which in the truth, it isn't.

I know map reviewer got to be patients against those newbie sometimes, but some newbie often adopt the attitude of "DON'T CARE, DON'T GIVE A SHIT!". As some adopt this attitude, their map was never improve and they constantly repeat the same mistake all over again despite an complete detail and advice on how to improve it.

Take note that not everybody are map reviewer, some newly register user or other unknown user took the opportunity of the brief note written by map reviewer to troll (a.k.a smart troll). This eventually cause everybody to think it was the map reviewer itself who troll while the fact it isn't them.

At the same time, an in depth reviews took an extremely long hours. I do mean long hours for specific genre if you want to elaborate 100% full detail of what is good and bad about it. There is once it took me about 4 hours to review a single map, (Yes, 4 hours) just to wrote an deep detail of it.

As some map took an extremely long duration to give in depth review, I even been told and authorised by Ralle not to waste time by writing review if the map indeed are not up to the acceptable quality and definitely going to be rejected.

As review took time, Ralle set up 2 approve status for map called Review and Approve. Review means the map was carefully tested, evaluate and details of whats good/bad was clearly written while Approve means the map was briefly tested, evaluate and brief note of why it was acceptable was posted.

While for rejected map, map that are obviously breaking the site rules deserves an rejection without any test being conduct. No matter how good a map could be, it can never been approve in that stats. Like the old saying, either you follow the rules or get lost.

Of course, lot's of people say it does not deserve rejection because the author pour in a lot of hard work which I do agree as well. That is why rejected map could be updated back to pending stages once an proper fix had been done. Unfortunately, many map maker have the misconception that an rejected map stay permanently rejected at this site (Which certainly isn't true).

The same fact can be say about approve map, approve map does not stay permanently approve if it deem to be unacceptable such as bug or incompatible with the current patch. Some people been constantly argue why this map approve, that map approve without knowing the actual fact of what is going on. This is what I often receive back when I was map moderator, when many newbie yelling at me why some map dated back at 2004-2006 was approve without any description.

They yell and scream about those map without description are approve without any acknowledge the map submission system was far simple and does not have any moderator back at that time. Surely it can be rejected, but only on special cases as was stated above.

On some special occasion, an map could be approve/rejected with the exemption of the rules under the consideration and permission by the mod/admin. For example, the clearances of massive map back then was condemned by certain party of being bias and unfair as it was lack of review (Even an brief one).

But it certainly isn't much choices as the amount of map was increasing and either you do the dirty work by clearing it or you don't. If you do it, you would get yell and if you don't, it is the same as well (Just like you are picking between the 2 evil, just see which are lesser).

On the other hand, those people who blame the map reviewer for not doing a good job for spamming the word Approve/Reject are certainly complete ass as well cause instead of whining, yelling and screaming at map reviewer; why not encourage the map reviewer or join them in their crusade fight against those huge mess?

Believe me, I seen so many people yell, scream and blame map reviewer for not conducting good job. But seriously, we only have 24 hours and life to attend to. You cannot expect map reviewer to stare at the computer 24 hours to test map non-stop.

Some say they should take their time, but the question is "Does the flow of map stop even awhile?". Just take a look at how many map submitted in a week or months.

This issues can only be resolved if everybody work together instead of playing the game "Point the finger".

Solution? Map submitter tested and ensure their map quality was acceptable before submit it. Of course, follow the rules as well.

As for those who yell at map reviewer, they could encourage map reviewer or just join them as well instead of finding all negative issues about them.

As for map reviewer, cut off the sarcastic remark in their post and that should be enough. I know some map reviewer cannot resist it; even I done it before.

If this 3 side does not cooperate, it was deja vu all over again.

 

[Ramza]

Sadly! hehe joking.

What I did notice is that one of the site's smilies is called ''Ogre Haosis''.

Solution? Map submitter tested and ensure their map quality was acceptable before submit it. Of course, follow the rules as well.

And there lies the biggest problem. But there's no way to prevent this. All you can do is reject those maps.

 

[Boris_Spider]

I'm well aware that reviews take time, and agree that the map must first be approved before any mod reviews are conducted. The problem is that the current mods are being inundated by the inflow of maps. They can't keep up enough to simply approve/disapprove, nevertheless write reviews.

I suggested the idea of having specialized map mods to try an make life easier on them. Obviously, if a mod doesn't like say, RPGs, he will be less inclined to test/approve it. So I suggeseted getting more mods and having them focus on modding/reviewing certain map types (in accordance to the options available while uploading the map).

As for the review, mods should only conduct reviews if users are recommending it.

The problem still boils down to the fact that there aren't enough map mods. (Even if the current ones didn't have lives of their own, they probably still couldn't keep up.)

//\\oo//\\

 

[The World Is Flat]

Look, I feel like ranting, and this is the place. Please note, this is also my serious opinion.

Theres a difference between map REVIEWERS and map MODERATORS.

Moderators click through a map and check off a list of things to see if the map breaks any rules. when it doesent, they approve the map, no questions asked.

You can have basically anyone do this. just make sure it works and doesent break the rules. (like clone maps, ect.)

The other thing out there is the MAP REVIEWER.
These dudes let everyone know if any of the maps are ANY GOOD.

These things are entirely different. One requires slightly more technical skill, and the other requires patience and inginuty.

It doesent make sense to combine these things. A map can go off and be approved, thats easy, get 5-10 people on that, I'll bet people will sign up to moderate that section.

The issue here is map reviwing, people spamming reviews on maps that dont meet expectations and because they hate.

what makes sense is a review system like Metacritics, the moderator review and the user reviews standing side by side.

its my oppinion that maps shoulden't be available to the public until they have approved by a mod. once that happens, a mod can review a map that gets a large number of higher ratings by users (still an exploitable system) but over time this system will regulate itself, reasonable users outnumbering fail users. maps that have been sitting will also have a higher ranking in a review ladder.

the end all review should be a review mod's but a user review can also be 'sponsored' by a mod, which will promote that review to the official version, and multiple mods can review or sponsor on the same map ofc. This way there could be a trusted score on most maps, and newer maps could be approved more quickly.

thats my two cents, didnt quite turn out to be as long or as big of a rant as oi expected.

 

[ap0calypse]

TWIF: That's kind of the system Ralle suggested a while ago (for thw 2.0), that maps will be in a general category which only mods can see, the mod can then easily check the base rules and put it into something that resembles the pending maps section (but then there will be no maps with no description etc because the mod already denied those).

Although moderators should be capable of more than just mindless rule-checking, mods should be able to write a very detailed review, worthy of a moderator.
We ain't machines
Yes, there will also be people who just review maps without the moderating part (although these reviews don't need to be the length of a real moderator review, their value is still higher than general user ratings).

But that's music for the future, so for now, on this version of the site: probably won't happen.

 

[Boris_Spider]

TWIF: That's kind of the system Ralle suggested a while ago (for thw 2.0), that maps will be in a general category which only mods can see, the mod can then easily check the base rules and put it into something that resembles the pending maps section (but then there will be no maps with no description etc because the mod already denied those).

Although moderators should be capable of more than just mindless rule-checking, mods should be able to write a very detailed review, worthy of a moderator.
We ain't machines
Yes, there will also be people who just review maps without the moderating part (although these reviews don't need to be the length of a real moderator review, their value is still higher than general user ratings).

But that's music for the future, so for now, on this version of the site: probably won't happen.

If those are plans for v2.0, what's the current timeframe until the implementation of that system? Months? Years? Till a certain amount of money is aquired?

Maps are the culmination of all the other resources, and the reason for Models, Spells, Skins, Icons, and so-on. The map section seems to be the most neglected section of the site and seems to suffer the most problems.

//\\0o//\\

 

[MasterHaosis]

What I did notice is that one of the site's smilies is called ''Ogre Haosis''.

And I wonder which name they used as ,,base"... hehe

Septimus, The World Is Flat, you both have points, I agree on most of things with you!



//\\oo//\\ (<---- Oh I like this)

 

[-Kobas-]

Sorry for late reply to this thread, but as map reviewer I need to write few things:
EDIT:
Damn I lost 1 hour to check this thread and write reply, then I realized, there is no point to do such thing, it won't change anything!
THW Community has only few really good map reviewers that know WE, code, what is good gemeplay, site rules and how to work with community!
Others should just keep trying, so one day they can be called reviewers!

Spoiler

I'm firing my laz0r
00.
( ==========>>

 

[Deolrin]

/revive
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1772089-post2.html

 

[Boris_Spider]

I've noticed/heard off several other threads related to this one.

What I don't understand, is why nothing has really been done to the map section. Is it because no arguement has persuaded any of the admin yet?

At least for a temporary fix, a couple more map mods would help. The current two seem unable to keep up with the influx of maps. We now have 11 full pages of pending maps and are starting the 12th. To be fair, several of the pending maps have been moded (rejected until updated).

//\\oo//\\

 

[ap0calypse]

I've noticed/heard off several other threads related to this one.

What I don't understand, is why nothing has really been done to the map section. Is it because no arguement has persuaded any of the admin yet?

At least for a temporary fix, a couple more map mods would help. The current two seem unable to keep up with the influx of maps. We now have 11 full pages of pending maps and are starting the 12th. To be fair, several of the pending maps have been moded (rejected until updated).

//\\oo//\\

A thread already exists in the moderator forum, so action has been taken (or at the very least: it's still going on).
We'll see how that thread works out.

In the meanwhile, who would you (plural, as in everyone who reads this post) suggest for map mod? ( + reason, obviously we don't just take in people without reason).

 

[MasterHaosis]

But ap0calypse must stay!

//\\oo//\\


Anyway, ap0calypse, isn't better to open new thread so people can suggest others for map moderators? I do not think its wise to keep that discussion here because not all interested people will probably read this thread, its old. Better to create new one about that, and even poll if people add much candidates. Of course, its staff's final word

 

[Ramza]

Yes, I vote for a poll.

 

[Ironside]

I don't agree, if there is anyone capable of the job currently, then the admins already know him. No poll needed.

 

[Ramza]

Fair enough.

But it's weird though. Anyone can see two map moderators aren't enough. Why won't the admins do anything about it?

Who is the other map moderator anyway? Ap0calypse and ...?

 

[ap0calypse]

Yes, I vote for a poll.

I don't agree, if there is anyone capable of the job currently, then the admins already know him. No poll needed.

Well then, how about a poll whether or not there'll be a poll?


No, seriously... admins/mods don't constantly look at the maps section, in fact: nearly only map mods do and as everyone knows, they're quite inactive (me included).
So the map mods do NOT know who exactly would be a good moderator and I hightly doubt admins do.

Who is the other map moderator anyway? Ap0calypse and ...?

Cweener, who's gone AWOL.

 

[Ironside]

Cweener is already gone?
So you're alone now if I can say so?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I've been wondering where she's been lately, kinda odd that she'd just dissapear like that

 

[MasterHaosis]

So the map mods do NOT know who exactly would be a good moderator and I hightly doubt admins do.

Exactly! I agree with that statement.
Map section was always, and will be always specific section.

Cweener, who's gone AWOL.

What does mean AWOL?

 

[ap0calypse]

What does mean AWOL?

Away Without Official Leave.

Soohh, basically she's gone without telling us that she'd leave
At least, I hope that's the reason she doesn't reply...

 

[-Kobas-]

Really bad news
Well if you want public poll so much, choose few active users and let community vote, or split vote into community and stuff (like contest poll)

That's my opinion...

 

[Boris_Spider]

The problem with polls/contests is that the most likely applicants will be the very users the OP addressed.

Out of curiosity, is there another thread where differentiating between reviewing and moderating was covered? Moderators can review, but their sole function is approving/disapproving maps.

//\\oo//\\