Making my first model (geomerging)

[Plunders]

Hey guys, so after some time i decided to finally start learning how to alter some models (just for my own maps ofc, i'm not uploading something i didn't make from scratch).

I wanted to make an RPG orc and have based to model of the villager model with 40 anims on the hive, then i added a new head, chestpiece and pelvis to the model.

My problem is "tearing"/invisible spots where the geosets meet, I have welded the vertixes all around those spots, which according to other posts should fix this.



So here we are, after about 3 hours of welding and fiddling with the model i decided to upload it here and ask for help.

Please share the secrets of your art dear modellers even if you just fix the model please tell me how you did it.


Villager 40 anims: Villager

 

[Plunders]

It occours to me that transferring the animations from the villager linked above might be a bit easier. I've problems with getting the animtransfer file to work, it seems to be missing dependensies.

Attached is a working model looking like the other orc i tried making, it doesn't tear in the joints tho, if anyone could either transfer the animations to the model (all 40) or direct me to a working download for a good animation transfer program.

Thanks in advance for any help or tips

 

[Plunders]

So after much trial and error discovered that animations are tied to the bones in the body (gj right xD) and this is a workaround for me as i still can't find a proper program for transferring the animations.

I have a created a little model here I'd like to hear peoples thoughts, and especially tips on what i can do to make it look even better.

What I've done (using Magos and MDLVIS):

1: Starting with the villager model with 40 anims, i removed every geoset than his head.
2: I took the geosets for the whole body of the "peonheadtest" model i had scrabled together, and imported those geosets to the Villager's head model.
3: I removed the head of the villager and imported thralls head geoset from "peonheadtest". (just Thralls basic head though)
4: Then reattached all the vertixes to the bones that should fit. (this was really difficult lol, but fixed the tearing and applied animations)

Note: The reason i didn't just start with removing the whole villager in step 2, is because i don't know if the bone structure (thereby animations) would be deleted aswell if they had no geosets at all.. My instinct told me to do it over 2 steps. Is that nessessary?

Body parts:

Bones: Villager
Body: Alternate Orc Peon
Head: Thrall

Anyway, attached is the model


Front+Back screenshot.

 

[General Frank]

Interesting for a first try, but you might want to check the geoset animations during decay flesh animation and some of the event objects do not have the right key frames input into them.
Other than that looks cool. Keep on improving your craft.

 

[Plunders]

Hey man thanks for looking at the model, but i'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean.

I tried looking at decay flesh animation in mdlvis, looked like it does on the villager. And i tried killing the unit in game aswell, where it also acted normally as far as i could tell. What is it missing?


As for the event objects, do you mean stuff like ArmLowLeft, ArmLowRight, Chest, Hips, Body?

or maybe the object that have - ref on the end? like Weapon Ref, Origin Ref, Foot Left Ref, Foot Right Ref?

I tested some basic gear attachments to see if that's what you meant by event objects, the 4 pieces i tried fit the model somewhat, a little wonky, is this what you mean? (see screenie)

 

[General Frank]

Well, the villager or peasant model has faulty geoset animations anyway to begin with.
The body should slide down into the ground slowly and not hover over the ground.

The event objects create things like footsteps or sounds. The one for the footprints are wrong. It seems that it will not create any footprints.

 

[Plunders]

Oh ok, very good to know lol thanks man.

Gonna read a little up on it and try fiddling with it tonight.

And again thank you for the pointers!

 

[General Frank]

You're welcome.
It's always good to see new people trying to start modding.

 

[Plunders]

I found that you made this tutorial on the matter Fixing Faulty Death / Decay Animations and I think i know what i did wrong.
I've always thought i didn't need a mdl/x converter cause i could safe the .mdx file as .mdl and just work on it from there. And to be honest it seemed it was working when editing my .mdx file so i actually ended up just editing a .mdx file.

From your tutorial i see that this is very wrong, and causes loss of data, and i downloaded the mdl/x converter as i caught a answer you made to a comment:

Q: Why don't you just use Magos to convert between MDL and MDX? Or does the same bug occur?
A: Magos can convert mdx/mdl, but it will a pain in the ass because lots of information will be lost.

I think i might wanna recreate the model first, I know it's still gonna need fixing of the decay flesh animation you meantioned. But i feel like it's because i just edited a .mdx file (despite what the guides told me to) that my event objects are messed up.

I mean i can fix the death anim with the help of your guide, and this one Modeling and Animation 101 kinda goes into event objects. But I'm getting the feeling I'm gonna run into more problems because of my mistake

 

[General Frank]

To be honest I never tried to export from Magos to a .mdl format.
I know that working and then saving an mdl with Magos some minor things do not get saved, but some other data become easier to edit.

 

[Ether]

To be honest I never tried to export from Magos to a .mdl format.
I know that working and then saving an mdl with Magos some minor things do not get saved, but some other data become easier to edit.

What really is a good tool of modeling would you recommend for this? Milkshape, 3DS Max, or Maya?

 

[General Frank]

I am using Milkshape for 10 years now, but I don't have much experience with the other two.

 

[General Frank]

You cannot actually access the model with WE. The orc and the scenery are glued together no matter what.

However I think I have seen that orc rigged onto a Grunt somewhere on this site.

 

[Plunders]

I have done something with it, but i pulled the post because i found the model and removed everything but the orc. But i'm having some problems, i can see the orc fine in magos but trying to use the model in the 'model file' field in WE, it either does nothing or crashed my warcrafts.

Note that i'm trying to figure out why the mdl/x converter removes all the geosets from a model when converting it. So this work is done directly to the .mdx file, I can't get the orc to work but maybe you can fix it. I will definately try again once i get the converter to stop messing with me.

We do have a singled out orc, the geosets of the terrain is all gone. It's not a model yet apparently but it really should be..

 

[Plunders]

Alright I've turned it into a model

It's still a modified mdx file, so some things are definately broken, i'll have to fix those along the way.

For now i have a better model than the one i made.

This model consists of:
The bones of the "40 animation Villager".
The hands of the "40 animation Villager". (the orc had 5 fingers on each hand, i had to do something)
The body of the Tutorial orc.

Things i need to look into:
-Waist need more with.
-Fixing animations like decay flesh.
-Broken Event Objects.
-Portrait picture.
-Possiply adding back the orcs hair. (hey.. i don't always know/understand what happens when i mess with the editors xD. where the hair went is beyond me lol)


Screenie and attached model:

 

[Plunders]

polished the model a bit.

-The vertices around his feet and hands have been corrected so they stay put during animations.

-The model didn't actually have hair on the back of his head, so i added the pony tail from Grom Hellscream.

-Gave the unit less of a "hips don't lie" look, adding some mass around his belly.

TBH I might want some help fixing even objects and the decay flesh anim it's so messy.

 

[Alethos]

I've only ever used Magos (and occasionally Matrix Eater) to convert MDX to MDL and back again. Tbh I've never really noticed any problems- even when working with the Villager model extensively.

Decay flesh is super easy to fix if it gets 'off' by the way. Just move the root bone down in MDLVis in the appropriate keyframe.
Event objects are easy to change too in Magos.
- You can combine the portrait with the model by fetching the appropriate file in Matrix Eater and copy over the necessary animations/motion from the bones in that program.

 

[Plunders]

Alright guys thank you for all the help, i've applied some fixes to the models Even't Objects, however I cannot figure out why my footprints aren't working.



-I've looked at the decaying a lot, and tested it ingame - the only place i can see the decay bug is in magos, it doesn't show up ingame or in MDLVis. regardless if i can fix that, would it even matter? since it works ingame on heros and normal units

-I've made a portait model.

-A lot of work on the hands, they look WAY better during animations



Thanks you guys for all of your help (this thread is too long for what it is xD)

The model is done enough for my new map, which is actually not an RPG but a litteral survival game.
I worked a lot on it, but the support of the hive made it possible.

I'm gonna try to upload it as it is now, and if i learn more on these points i'll update. For me this is a useful model, so i think others might think so too.

+rep for both of you, i learned a lot.


EDIT: The model is uploaded! RPG/Villager Orc

 

[General Frank]

Nice work, but you should really fix the holes and the hands of the model.
You might want to add some slight team colour too!