Lost Temple: Blood Elf- By Drakesong

[Moderator]

09:36, 7th Aug 2010
ap0calypse: Rejected

 

[VampireofBlood]

cool idea at all, but the AI is only building 2 houses, the altar some workers and a hero.
Fix that pls.
else good worl and +REP

 

[skamigo]

I like altered melee with new race, I remember making one myself with trolls, magnataurs and revenants/dragons, much fun

Edit: Played it

Units: I wished for more custom units, even if they were slightly different from the original, like add an ability or new upgrade
Heroes: I wished they were more custom, only the warlock is any different from the original, and even so, the abilities are like in normal warcraft, I also don't think mana shield goes well on a strenght hero. Demon hunter and ranger can be different from the original, try to make some semi-custom spells, I don't care if they're triggered or not, just something special would be cool
Buildings: Nice, fits well with the race, also like the custom drop point flag

For now this map is worth a 2/5, if u improve your heroes and units a bit it will make the map worth playing, maybe add more units

 

[Felsong]

Units: I wished for more custom units, even if they were slightly different from the original, like add an ability or new upgrade
Heroes: I wished they were more custom, only the warlock is any different from the original, and even so, the abilities are like in normal warcraft, I also don't think mana shield goes well on a strenght hero. Demon hunter and ranger can be different from the original, try to make some semi-custom spells, I don't care if they're triggered or not, just something special would be cool

As i said, the goal of the map was to make a race as close as possible to the 4 original ones. To do that, i choose to only use things made by Blizzard or atleast inspired by that (Blizzard made things I mean stuff from WC II, III and WoW).
Part of the Blood Elf race is already in game (the 3 casters, Blood Mage and Dragonhawk rider), and the rest is already in the World Editor ready to be used. So, the units imho are fine and are just as I planned.
I agree with you in part when it comes to the Heroes. The Blood Mage and the Demon Hunter are finished. The Ranger and the Warlock on the other hand, I'm still considering some changes in the future.

Sorry if this may sound rude, but it wassaid in the description of the map that my main goal was to make a race as close as possible to what Blizzard would do if they wanted to make Blood Elf playable. It was very clear, at least to me, that it was NOT my intention to make new spells, upgrades, etc, instad, to gather EVERYTHING Blood Elf related already made by Blizzard and put together. To me, it seems that you gotalittle disappointed because you download a DotA map expecting to play a Tower Defense...

 

[Felsong]

Thanks to the feedback I gathered on the internet (including here), i updated the map. Enjoy!

 

[VampireofBlood]

Thanks to the feedback I gathered on the internet (including here), i updated the map. Enjoy!

dont doubble post pls

 

[L-Tim]

Fuking MAAP!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Felsong]

Fuking MAAP!!!!!!!!!!

Wat ?

 

[VampireofBlood]

Fuking MAAP!!!!!!!!!!

if you dont like it then pls give a constructive reason.

 

[skamigo]

As i said, the goal of the map was to make a race as close as possible to the 4 original ones. To do that, i choose to only use things made by Blizzard or atleast inspired by that (Blizzard made things I mean stuff from WC II, III and WoW).
Part of the Blood Elf race is already in game (the 3 casters, Blood Mage and Dragonhawk rider), and the rest is already in the World Editor ready to be used. So, the units imho are fine and are just as I planned.
I agree with you in part when it comes to the Heroes. The Blood Mage and the Demon Hunter are finished. The Ranger and the Warlock on the other hand, I'm still considering some changes in the future.

Sorry if this may sound rude, but it wassaid in the description of the map that my main goal was to make a race as close as possible to what Blizzard would do if they wanted to make Blood Elf playable. It was very clear, at least to me, that it was NOT my intention to make new spells, upgrades, etc, instad, to gather EVERYTHING Blood Elf related already made by Blizzard and put together. To me, it seems that you gotalittle disappointed because you download a DotA map expecting to play a Tower Defense...

Making a new race also means you need to balance it, I think it's too weak compared to other races, u need better units, also more, give the leutanents
another ability then spell steal, which spellbreakers already have, one more building would be nice too, also making gryphonry for only dragonhawk riders is not as great, u could either make the building less expensive, or the dragonhawk riders better (add abilities, stats).

Your heroes should variate more, also demonhunter and warlock don't really look blood elf, there should be something better than that.

 

[Felsong]

Making a new race also means you need to balance it, I think it's too weak compared to other races, u need better units, also more, give the leutanents
another ability then spell steal, which spellbreakers already have, one more building would be nice too, also making gryphonry for only dragonhawk riders is not as great, u could either make the building less expensive, or the dragonhawk riders better (add abilities, stats).

Your heroes should variate more, also demonhunter and warlock don't really look blood elf, there should be something better than that.

I've tested the map over and over on B.net, 1x1 and 2x2 (no FFA tho), against all the other 3 races, and I can garantee you that the race I made is by no means weaker or stronger than any of the 4 original ones. If you take a closer look, you will see that basically half of the units are almost identical to the Human ones (even tho they have different names and models), and the rest fits very well, also the techtree is basically the same. So, calling Blood Elf imbalanced or weak is thesame as calling Human weak. But anyway, even tho I disagree that just because the Lieutenant has thesame spell that theSpell Breaker has hemust bechanged (takealook at the Abomination,with Disease cloud and Cannibalize, spells you cansee on other units), I'll take a closer look on him, maybe make him more melee oriented.

The Warlock was replaced, I was never happy with him on the first place, and I agreed with the feedback I gathered on the internet. The Demon Hunter on the other hand, if you play TFT campaign, you will see that Illidan led the Blood Elf army during the Human campaign and even the Undead one, also during the WoW: TBC events, Illidan has a small group of Blood Elves still under his direct command (the Illidari and the Crimson Sigil), Illidan is indead a hero of the Blood Elves, even tho he's not a Blood Elf himself (kindalike the Keeper of the Grove, he's clearly not a NE,even tho he leads a great group (the Cenarion Circle you see in WoW).

I don't think you actually build the Aviary judging by the comment. If you build it, you will see that there are 2 units. One is the DH Rider you mentioned, and the other is the Dragon Hawk, a "brand new" unit, very strong (kinda like the Griphon), with a very cool model and all

Edit:
Uploaded a new version, the Lieutenant was remade, he is now better against melee andmore forgiving against casters.

 

[Aspard]

I like people trying to implement new races into WC3. So I've come up with some constructive suggestions:
1) Since you are trying to make the race look like original Blizz one, than you should know, that it's just a nonsence, that your ranger hero has two auto-cast abilities. Blizzard won't let this happen ever! Also one of the abilities becomes just useless, even though you can choose the ability up to the situation, you'll still have just 3 of 4 abilities every time. I can suggest removing Fire Arrows and adding AoE damage spell, maybe you look in my spellpack spell Arrow Volley and take it if you like.
2) Why does your liehutenant throws shuriken? That just spoils the view. Here I can suggest removing ranged attack or setting it to 100 to emitate melee one or change the missile model to... maybe smth connected to blood of light magic?
3) I tryed fighting every unit of the same level against each other and can now definetily tell, that the Horde will overtake your Blood Elves. For footmen everything seems fine, they cost less than grunts, has better attack speed, quite good against ranged units. I can't say this about archers and catapults as well. The difference in cost of archer and troll spearthrower is about 10 lumber if I'm not mistaken, but after upgrade Troll -> Berserker this becomes nearly impossible for an archer to kill him. ;( Quite unfair, huh? Also ballista has less HP and damage in comparison to orcish catapult, and even though ballista doesn't have any possible armor upgrades!
4) You just removed Workshop... and what did you give them? This weak ballista? Maybe ballista is okay for Night Elves, but not for Blood, definetily! They just lost some of their unique power in comparance to the Human race!
5) About heroes. Well, I can accept them, but you should change the model of the Demon Hunter. I'm sure I've seen one same model for Blood Elves somewhere on Hive or on the wc3c. Here it is btw

Well, that's all for me. I dislike custom sounds you've imported - they seem to be useless for me. Also you changed the icon for "free worker" for ALL raced ;(

 

[Felsong]

I like people trying to implement new races into WC3. So I've come up with some constructive suggestions:
1) Since you are trying to make the race look like original Blizz one, than you should know, that it's just a nonsence, that your ranger hero has two auto-cast abilities. Blizzard won't let this happen ever! Also one of the abilities becomes just useless, even though you can choose the ability up to the situation, you'll still have just 3 of 4 abilities every time. I can suggest removing Fire Arrows and adding AoE damage spell, maybe you look in my spellpack spell Arrow Volley and take it if you like.
2) Why does your liehutenant throws shuriken? That just spoils the view. Here I can suggest removing ranged attack or setting it to 100 to emitate melee one or change the missile model to... maybe smth connected to blood of light magic?
3) I tryed fighting every unit of the same level against each other and can now definetily tell, that the Horde will overtake your Blood Elves. For footmen everything seems fine, they cost less than grunts, has better attack speed, quite good against ranged units. I can't say this about archers and catapults as well. The difference in cost of archer and troll spearthrower is about 10 lumber if I'm not mistaken, but after upgrade Troll -> Berserker this becomes nearly impossible for an archer to kill him. ;( Quite unfair, huh? Also ballista has less HP and damage in comparison to orcish catapult, and even though ballista doesn't have any possible armor upgrades!
4) You just removed Workshop... and what did you give them? This weak ballista? Maybe ballista is okay for Night Elves, but not for Blood, definetily! They just lost some of their unique power in comparance to the Human race!
5) About heroes. Well, I can accept them, but you should change the model of the Demon Hunter. I'm sure I've seen one same model for Blood Elves somewhere on Hive or on the wc3c. Here it is btw

Well, that's all for me. I dislike custom sounds you've imported - they seem to be useless for me. Also you changed the icon for "free worker" for ALL raced ;(

Thanks for the reply! But here are a few things to consider:

1) "that your ranger hero has two auto-cast abilities. Blizzard won't let this happen ever!" During Beta, there was the Ranger hero, and she had those 2 auto-cast spells. The Ranger here is almost a copy from the original Beta Ranger made by Blizzard.

2) There is a mob in WoW, that is just like the Lieutenant (he's in Isle of Quel'danas btw), he has the Glaive Throw. The concept of the ranged attack of the Lt is the same as the Huntress. And also, the original Lt in the World Editor has this ranged attack

3) Sorry, I can't agree here. It seems that you treid to find the balance of the race using 1x1 units of the same level. It doesn't work that way, it only worked in Warcraft 2, and still people could find imbalances. It's obvious that the Berserker is better than the Archer, it's a high lvl upgrade, compared to the Archer that is a low lvl unit. The HH, compared to the Archer, has higher lumber and gold costs, and requires Warmill, but the Archer has no requirements. The archer was made to be a low tier unit, like the footman (or Swordman), and like any other races, the Blood Elves have it's weakness: The anti-air (like Undead is weaker in melee, etc...). The Ballista is weaker than the Catault, but, it's like saying that NE is imbalanced because their ballista is weaker... also, the ballista needs no Town Hall upgrade.
I can tell you, i played this map over and over against real and PC players, of all the races, 1x1 and 2x2, of the same skill lvl of mine and I can tell you, that the race is balanced, but like any races, it has it's highs and lows

4) While as Human you had to upgrade town hall, build a workshop and make mortars / siege, the Ballistas are faster to get, and cheaper. But explain me, why is Ballista ok for NE and not for Blood Elf?

5) About the DH. Some people don't like him because he's not a Blood Elf, but i like to keep him this way, because one of the true heroes of the Blood Elves is Illidan, who is like that. Just like the example i gave earlier: the Keeper of the Grove is not a Night Elf, but he is a NE hero. Some people may like it, some people may not, but sorry if this disappoint some players, but this is one of the things that I don't plan on changing, ever.

6) Well, all of the sounds where extracted from the Blood Elves speeches from WoW. I wanted to give a feeling that you are playing a Blood Elf race, and to do that, one important thing is to change the sounds. I used a lot of generic sounds too, but only because the map would become TOO BIG if i import every usefull speech from woW, and people on Bnet tend to hate big maps. Also I had in mind that if someone downloaded a map of a new race, they would only play that race, so tht's why i didn't change the icon. But anyway, I will change the worker icon in this case

 

[Aspard]

Anyway, in comparison to other races your blood elves have less unit and shorten by one building Why not think of smth like althar of undead where they morph acolytes into shadows?

And this Lt may be okay for WoW, but in WC 3 it looks weird, so it's a point of eye-candy, not of "natural Blizzard race".

 

[Felsong]

Anyway, in comparison to other races your blood elves have less unit and shorten by one building Why not think of smth like althar of undead where they morph acolytes into shadows?

And this Lt may be okay for WoW, but in WC 3 it looks weird, so it's a point of eye-candy, not of "natural Blizzard race".

Well, it's only 2 units less than the Human race, and even only 1 unit less than undead, and it has the same number of buildings of NE and Orc I believe (the undead only has 1 more because they actually have to build the gold mine).

Also, the original Lieutenant, made by Blizzard, that you can find in the World Editor, has this ranged kind of attack, the only things I changed was the spells (Magic Defense, already in the world editor and Glaive, which is the one from WoW) and the attack dmg

 

[Aspard]

Since you are so stabborn, then I'll leave any tryes to convince you, see ya.

 

[ashbringer753]

Review

Creativity:This is not the first blood elven race map...and there is absolutely nothing new, just reskined human race. Spells are already existent in the world editor, and none of them are trigerred.(0.25/2)

Heroes:-attributes: same as human/NE... try do something of your own:0.25/2
-spells: 0.25/2, no synergy(-0.5), no triggers(-0.5), lack or originality and imbalance(-0.5),good tooltips(0.25):(0.25/2)
total:0.5/4


Techtree: a mix of human and night elf techtree, results in imbalance,nothing else to say about this.blood elf lieutenant seems to be the only real addition:(0.5/4)

Use of custom textures and models: the lumber mill doesn't fit at all, you could have used a the original lumber mill. riderless dragonhawk is a very simple model, you could have used a dragon or a hawk instead and it would have looked better. because logically, how can he be stronger without a rider?, and you used a wow model for the rally point0.5/2):because you used GF's model for a hero<3)

Description: not the best description ever, it is simple, clear and just the essential(1/2)

Terrain i can't grade you on this... it's casual blizzard terrain.

Overall:0.25+0.25+0.25+0.5+0.5+0.5+1=3.25/14=1.16/5(rejected)

Suggestions:make this more custom, by adding more heroes,more trigerred spells(more original), start a techtree from scratch instead of copying the human one and adding additions from other races...

 

[Cweener]

Mass Purging Template Version 4.0
Rejection

Reason for not approving:
The terrain is not good. In any aspect.