Ice Escape Template v2.5

[Moderator]

Orcnet

21:31, 19th Nov 2013

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Ice Escape Template (Tested Version 1.0) Rate Score Percent Letter 5/5 91-100 A Rate Score Percent Letter 4/5 81-90% B Rate Score Percent Letter 3/5 75-80% C Rate Score Percent Letter 2/5 70-74% D Rate Score Percent Letter 1/5 50-69% F Overview: Gameplay "This is a fruitful map or more to say a template, useful triggers and the gaming use is fantastic." Terrain "Although this is a terrain, it would be nice if you can ditch in a good snowy view for the matter, although this map is already considerable." Management "Overall map can be useful." Total Score: (Gameplay[x/5] + Terrain[x/5] + Management[x/5] / Total Score[15] * 50 + 50) Rate Score Percent Letter 9/15 80% C

 

[IcyMind]

I thought "IcemanBo" sounded familiar so I decided to check this out. I think I've played Ice escape with you a few times some time ago. Played through parts of the map and checked the triggers in WE.

I'll make a quick review for this map template!

[+]
- Triggers look pretty much leakless (Though I only went through them quickly).
- Triggers work as they should.
- The person using the template will recieve some guidance when looking through the triggers and the map itself.
[-]
- I consider the template pretty useless due to several facts:
- You need to be familiar with the WE and how it works to be able to create a game from the template anyway.
- You are uploading it to hive. Most people here wouldn't need the template (like myself) because they already know how to create an escape map of any type.

I'm not saying that your map is bad, but to me it seems pretty useless and hard to learn from if you're a newbie. Personally I learn better by creating triggers from scratch and following a tutorial if I have to, and there are tons of escape tutorials out there.

How I see a newbie's reaction when opening this map:
1: he opens the map
2: he opens the trigger editor
3: BAM! 28 different triggers with different content you don't know anything about.... him: "WHERE DO I START??? AHHH!!!", then he closes WE

So, to sum up my 2 points: Too hard for a newbie, the experienced map makers already know how to do it.

Not a bad map template, but for the effort I don't think you get much back.

 

[IcemanBo]

Answer to IcyMind

Thanks for your comment IcyMind, funny there are more ice escaper on THW, i thought im pretty lonesome

So... I know a beginner wont be able to change these systems.. but in fact for only creating a new level you just have to add 3 lines, 2 regions and 1 unit (finish). The rest, all other features with units is just optional to show what could be added for more fun.

So to others who gonna test it: Only first Init trigger is needed for putting your new levels in default.

But thanks for your opinion IcyMind, good comment... +rep
p.s.: Sorry, but i cant remeber you anymore, was maybe too long time ago? ... But we are still sliding!

Edit:

Example map uses a very old Ice Escsape template, but it shows 6 example levels.

Screenshots

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

 

[IcyMind]

You're missing a changelog in the description. You should have one since you're updating the map.

 

[Legal_Ease]

And some screenshots would help too. This map looks really cool! People should get to see it.

LOVE IT!!

 

[IcemanBo]

Okay, some screenies added

 

[FUJI]

The Ice Template ( Escape Game ) is really amazing and cool!!!!!! 5/5

 

[Binsu]

Ice Escape Template is a Template for Escape maps that is created by IcemanBo. What makes this interesting for a template is that there are triggers for TD already ready to be used and modified just by the audience which I can say is good.

Idea/Concept:
The Idea of creating an Escape Template is really reat for we dont see much of this in Hive as far as I kno and also what made it better is that, you provided also Escape based triggers just to be modified to the audience contents which makes it easier for them and you putted some effort into this though I kind of partially agree with IcyMind's opinion. I will gve you a rating of 4/5 here.

Terrain:
On Escape Maps we dont judge terrain much here for the terrain goes on how the game goes. So I can say is that it is looking good and I like that when you walk into different ice and snow tiles, there are corresponding effects that will occur such as MS plus, death and Reverse. Simply, I'll give you a rating of 5/5 here.

Gameplay:
Nothing much of a gameplay, just experimenting with the different side effects by stepping at each ice and snow tiles and when finish, go to Circle to finish game. I understand that you made this because the audience are the one who will make their own gameplay out of this template so still rating this not lower 3/5 because it has no gameplay but rating this, 4/5 because of many possibilties of gameplay that can be made through this simple Template.

Overall, for an Escape template map, this is looking good and the fact that there are also Triggers to make it easier which I can say that you putted alot of effort into this. To sum up your scores, you got a total of 12/15 or 4/5. Take this +4 REP as a reward for making such a great Escape Template.

 

[IcemanBo]

Ice Escape Template is a Template for Escape maps that is created by IcemanBo. What makes this interesting for a template is that there are triggers for TD already ready to be used and modified just by the audience which I can say is good.

Idea/Concept:
The Idea of creating an Escape Template is really reat for we dont see much of this in Hive as far as I kno and also what made it better is that, you provided also Escape based triggers just to be modified to the audience contents which makes it easier for them and you putted some effort into this though I kind of partially agree with IcyMind's opinion. I will gve you a rating of 4/5 here.

Terrain:
On Escape Maps we dont judge terrain much here for the terrain goes on how the game goes. So I can say is that it is looking good and I like that when you walk into different ice and snow tiles, there are corresponding effects that will occur such as MS plus, death and Reverse. Simply, I'll give you a rating of 5/5 here.

Gameplay:
Nothing much of a gameplay, just experimenting with the different side effects by stepping at each ice and snow tiles and when finish, go to Circle to finish game. I understand that you made this because the audience are the one who will make their own gameplay out of this template so still rating this not lower 3/5 because it has no gameplay but rating this, 4/5 because of many possibilties of gameplay that can be made through this simple Template.

Overall, for an Escape template map, this is looking good and the fact that there are also Triggers to make it easier which I can say that you putted alot of effort into this. To sum up your scores, you got a total of 12/15 or 4/5. Take this +4 REP as a reward for making such a great Escape Template.

Really good review.

I guess Hive needs people like you, nothing more to say.

 

[Orcnet]

Map approved, see moderator comment on top.

 

[tulee]

Hi iceman bo. I was looking into using this kind of template for a coop map for 1-2 players. I just had a few quick questions if that is ok.

Two non essential questions are whether I can expand the map's size without reprocussions (I am not sure if the apply camera you do to limit each round to the round's terrain is affected by the ratio of the overall map size) and if I can control the order of the rounds (I know which trigger is causing it to be random, but just now sure how to reverse).

These are non essential questions since I can get around both of them (the first I ask because I want room to make cinematics, but there is already some space at the bottom so it is not imperative for me to know). I ask the second question since I wanted to have certain cinematics play at the end of each round, but if I cannot control the order then I cannot make a cinematic that progresses in sequence since I am not sure which one will play first. But I can get around this issue also by just having 1 large cinematic at the start and 1 large cinematic at the end, so the order will not matter.

The main issue is, I am trying to control the model for the heros that are given. I was planning on doing this in a crude manner, since after the "human" is created I could just trigger it to pick all units belonging to a certain colour and using the metamorphosis spell to change into the hero I want it to be, a hero that will not have the option to change to another form for the sake of the story. The issue I am facing here is, all the morph spells are based on the druid of the claw's metamorphosis spell, so when there are 2 players in game (its a coop map that allows 1 player or 2 player), and I want the second hero to be another hero model, I cannot use the same trigger since all the morph into other drivers spell are based on the same metamorphosis spell. And the key issue is, there might only be 1 player in game, so I only want to trigger it so only when there is a second player, it will change it to the 2nd model (which is why I would use the crude trigger "pick all units belonging to colour and do spell)

Sorry if that is super confusing, I love your template a lot

 

[IcemanBo]

Two non essential questions are whether I can expand the map's size without reprocussions

and if I can control the order of the rounds

Map size has no effect, as long as it gets so small that for example objects, or regions are removed. You can or make it bigger, or smaller and remove levels.
For locking players' cam to level bounds, there are regions placed on the map, and they are put into an array. Have a look here:

Hidden

Basically, a random number from array size 1-6 is taken, and will define the "next level".
If you want to have a straight order, then you can simply start at "1" and simply increase by +1 after each level.

The main issue is,
...

Did I get it right, that a trigger is needed that:

• Transforms hero by player 1 into "Hero X"
• Transforms hero by player 2 into "Hero Y"
  ( X is not same as Y)
• Trigger does only work if there are 2 players

Not sure where exactly the problem with crow form ability is, you may add different abilities to the heroes, and use it, or? Might you elaborate if this doesn't help?

I love your template a lot

Thank you! But I'm not very sure you very much need so much from it.. ;D

 

[tulee]

Map size has no effect, as long as it gets so small that for example objects, or regions are removed. You can or make it bigger, or smaller and remove levels.
For locking players' cam to level bounds, there are regions placed on the map, and they are put into an array. Have a look here:

Hidden

View attachment 302408

Basically, a random number from array size 1-6 is taken, and will define the "next level".
If you want to have a straight order, then you can simply start at "1" and simply increase by +1 after each level.


Did I get it right, that a trigger is needed that:

• Transforms hero by player 1 into "Hero X"
• Transforms hero by player 2 into "Hero Y"
  ( X is not same as Y)
• Trigger does only work if there are 2 players

Not sure where exactly the problem with crow form ability is, you may add different abilities to the heroes, and use it, or? Might you elaborate if this doesn't help?


Thank you! But I'm not very sure you very much need so much from it.. ;D

I mean, the only way I can make a unit use a custom ability (the change driver/model spell) is by triggering it to use one of the default abilities that the "custom" ability is based on. All of the change driver spells are based on the " druid of the claw -bear- transform " ability. So I cannot make them turn into different drivers unless the changedriver abilities are based on different spells.
*I might be wrong about everything above, but that is how I understand it.

 

[IcemanBo]

• We have control which ability a unit has at any point in game.
• All transform-abilities are based on same orderid, means all abilities require the same order to execute.
• We can control the unit to have the exact transform-ability which our unit should use, and then we just order to transform.

See example map attached, where we can write "-0" up to "-11" to transform in wanted hero.

• Setup
  • Events
    • Map initialization
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • Set tulee_Abilities[0] = Acolyte
    • Set tulee_Abilities[1] = Tauren
    • Set tulee_Abilities[2] = DeathKnight
    • Set tulee_Abilities[3] = Farseer
    • Set tulee_Abilities[4] = Goblin
    • Set tulee_Abilities[5] = Helicopter
    • Set tulee_Abilities[6] = Human
    • Set tulee_Abilities[7] = Illidan
    • Set tulee_Abilities[8] = Infernal machine
    • Set tulee_Abilities[9] = Lich
    • Set tulee_Abilities[10] = Orc
    • Set tulee_Abilities[11] = Tank

• Change
  • Events
    • Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing - as A substring
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • Set Int = (Integer((Substring((Entered chat string), 2, (Length of (Entered chat string))))))
    • Set Unit = Hero[(Player number of (Triggering player))]
    • Unit - Add tulee_Abilities[Int] to Unit
    • Unit - Order Unit to Night Elf Druid Of The Claw - Bear Form

 

[tulee]

Ahh! Of course, adding the ability to the unit as a trigger. Thanks Iceman! I did not even think of that as a possibility to get around the order ID issue. I will try messing around with the map again. Thank you!

 

[IcemanBo]

Some bigger update.

 

[Rattengeist]

Uff

 

[IcemanBo]

New update. Major changes:

• Support for Ice Ranks to be loaded and displayed on a board
• Object editor changes for future IceRanks map

Some more changes at changelog.

 

[Serenity09]

i love this template, really creative use of ice. the short range effect is really fun in game, and the UI clue is pretty clear. you should check out my new snow effect and let me know if you have any interest. its a little different of a vibe so you might not want it for your map, but i really like how it turned out!

last death ghost is a fun touch. im not sure i want to share my shame with others though...

i really like the idea of save/load ice ranks and localizing nearby player unit transparency. would you be okay with me using your system for save/load & ice ranks as a reference for my map? ive started doing localized visuals on some effects, especially the ones that are currently bugged in HD, but now i might also do it for nearby player units when on ice

i think that your terrain algorithm is a little too clear cut for the number of terrain types you use

• are you worried about players glitching pathing or other regression issues for your map makers when it comes to the death terrain? you could make pathing less harsh while also compensating for its issues a number of ways. the easiest would be to check for safe terrain points in a radius around the player's car. id recommend checking the 8 compass points at a offset radius from the player car. you can increase / decrease tolerance by changing the number of safe points required to live. checking 8 compass points gives you ghetto diagonals, the buffer gives you the wiggle room that players love about region death, and the number of safe points allows you to control how players die/can glitch terrain
• the number of terrains/effects you have encourages fun complex shapes and combinations of effects, but the checks to determine what effect the player should experience are too simple to allow it. you could compensate for this with a sorta layering system that combines with the above radius check, prioritizing some terrains above others. your death terrain would be the lowest priority, and the effect you wanted to always be front and center would be the highest

i love that you made a mimic ice. i did the same thing in my map (with a diff tile/aesthetic), i bet for the same reason. i was like "wow its so cool that i get this sick terrain effect free of charge! the possibilities are endless!" i ended up dropping that terrain tile to add a custom realistic road texture thats purely visual with no other effect (lol). i couldnt think of any good use of the mimic effect that wasn't really a puzzle in disguise. i wanted my map to be about anticipation and reaction, not puzzles. but i had a very hard time thinking of level ideas using the mimic terrain effect in general. have you seen a good use of it from yourself or others?

ill change my vote to a 5 if youre interested in making your terrain algorithm better in at least 1 way, described or your idea

 

[IcemanBo]

I have a bit laptop problems with reforged, and currently not really active in developing, but thanks!

Snow from this map? Escape Dream World v1.3 It looks nice, will definitely try it out and share it to slide community, thanks for info.

For save/load, yes sure, use what you want. Though I never built up some good interface or so, so it currently more just works, than is nicely written. Don't hate me if it's bad. ^^

For mimic ice, Spider Traps is for me the most known ice map which uses it. There are some more, but just in development. You can find Spider Traps in the map database here: https://iceescape.synology.me/maps
Personally I also don't see too much use in mimic ice, but some players enjoy it, so it's just there. : )

Sorry for the algorithm I'm not very sure I correctly understand. The "correct" behaviour with when one should die in ice escape is very werid to describe imo, and not very clear. Maybe it's good if I say expectations for death from my side.

• passing diagonals should work /and not luck based), even you shortly touch snow
• passing even 1 normal snow line/wall should not work with normal speed
• passing 1 normal snow line/wall could work with very fast speed ( a bit luck needed )

it's somehow not very clear if to allow passing snow is sometimes good or a not. Some maps rely on it very much by design, like Ice4 ava. (boost + ava bug in case you know it) Some players say it's just a hack and don't like it. I don't know myself honestly, what is best behaviour, or if there is one best. But I also have thought already couple of times to change death condition, ... but it would be something more people would decide, but thanks for bringing it up.

Could you elaborate:

but the checks to determine what effect the player should experience are too simple to allow it.

I'm not very sure about the critique, or the solution with different layers.

ill change my vote to a 5 if youre interested in making your terrain algorithm better in at least 1 way, described or your idea

Haha! I will definitely write here again if something changed in this regard. But I'm also very happy with the 4, I think it's totally good for this. ... I blame myself now a bit to stick so much with GUI honestly, it became a mess at parts ( sliding algorithm e.g.) ... but some mappers are less scared of touching or looking at some GUI things when they need to modify something, and then there came this compromise.

Thanks!

 

[Serenity09]

For mimic ice, Spider Traps is for me the most known ice map which uses it. There are some more, but just in development. You can find Spider Traps in the map database here: https://iceescape.synology.me/maps
Personally I also don't see too much use in mimic ice, but some players enjoy it, so it's just there. : )

this is so cool, i never knew this database existed. ive just been enjoying trying out maps the last hour

Snow from this map? Escape Dream World v1.3 It looks nice, will definitely try it out and share it to slide community, thanks for info.

yeah, though youd attach the effect to a different tile if you were interested. id love to know what you think!

For save/load, yes sure, use what you want. Though I never built up some good interface or so, so it currently more just works, than is nicely written. Don't hate me if it's bad. ^^

and sweet, thanks

Sorry for the algorithm I'm not very sure I correctly understand. The "correct" behaviour with when one should die in ice escape is very werid to describe imo, and not very clear. Maybe it's good if I say expectations for death from my side.

• passing diagonals should work /and not luck based), even you shortly touch snow
• passing even 1 normal snow line/wall should not work with normal speed
• passing 1 normal snow line/wall could work with very fast speed ( a bit luck needed )

it's somehow not very clear if to allow passing snow is sometimes good or a not. Some maps rely on it very much by design, like Ice4 ava. (boost + ava bug in case you know it) Some players say it's just a hack and don't like it. I don't know myself honestly, what is best behaviour, or if there is one best. But I also have thought already couple of times to change death condition, ... but it would be something more people would decide, but thanks for bringing it up.

your algorithm for death detection does everything you say it does. let me try to explain what i dont like from a different angle. by checking terrain kill in 3 consecutive timesteps you are adding some temporary cushion to the death check. this cushion is extremely effective in allowing quick diagonals, such as when youre cutting a 90 degree turn or passing over the 32x32 triangle of ghost terrain thats visually there but not actually what GetTerrainType returns, but the temporary buffer struggles with sustained diagonals, or even creating a margin of safety that the player can rely on. its also extremely hard to anticipate, because of the 32x32 ghost terrain triangle. it also struggles when the number of timesteps, set at 3, is no longer appropriate with the speed the unit is travelling, fast or slow

one option i didn't consider till now is if it would be an improvement to change the number of death terrain ticks depending on the units current speed

my recommendation is to change your death detection strategy is to better compensate for a sustained buffer, and to better fit the player's expectations when it comes to the perceived ghost terrain triangle. its hard to explain why the difference might be worth it, but you can see what i mean in my map and decide what you think

Could you elaborate:
I'm not very sure about the critique, or the solution with different layers.

yeah definitely. because the terrain effect is transitioned based on the terrain youre currently on, the ice escape maker needs to utilize it in be blocky shapes. things like

dont work ideally, because theres a good chance youll switch between terrain effects multiple times while moving over it, because of the ghost terrain triangle, but the player wont necessarily be expecting this (they also shouldnt need to expect this). the approach i took to improving this is by ranking each terrain tile with a priority and then scanning the area around the player for the terrain with the highest priority. the ice escape maker can utilize overlapping tiles with much greater flexibility and the player will have a smoother experience thats more in line with what they're perceiving visually

this approach is what lets me do things like this in my map

Haha! I will definitely write here again if something changed in this regard. But I'm also very happy with the 4, I think it's totally good for this. ... I blame myself now a bit to stick so much with GUI honestly, it became a mess at parts ( sliding algorithm e.g.) ... but some mappers are less scared of touching or looking at some GUI things when they need to modify something, and then there came this compromise.

i thought it was brilliant to write the main pieces in GUI. 90% of maze makers want to make mazes, not triggers

 

[PashaFenko036]

cool