1. Are you planning to upload your awesome map to Hive? Please review the rules here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. The Lich King demands your service! We've reached the 19th edition of the Icon Contest. Come along and make some chilling servants for the one true king.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The 4th SFX Contest has started. Be sure to participate and have a fun factor in it.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. The poll for the 21st Terraining Contest is LIVE. Be sure to check out the entries and vote for one.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. The results are out! Check them out.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. Don’t forget to sign up for the Hive Cup. There’s a 555 EUR prize pool. Sign up now!
    Dismiss Notice
  9. The Hive Workshop Cup contest results have been announced! See the maps that'll be featured in the Hive Workshop Cup tournament!
    Dismiss Notice
  10. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Hunter's Hall 1.6.0

Submitted by Cokemonkey11
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.


Hunter's Hall


A map by Cokemonkey11

Contents
* Introduction
* Screenshots
* Items
* Version Control
* Changelog
* Contributing


Introduction

Hunter's Hall is a team-oriented PvP game which consists of short, objective-based rounds.
Players fill a role either on the team of Hunters, or the team of Beasts. These teams use
different play-styles and have different objectives - the Hunters have a limited time to
steal one of two items and return to their base.

Hunters have ranged weapons and binocular vision, but are genetically weaker than the
Beasts. Hunters can only view the area around and in front of them, and can't easily keep
track of one another. Hunters have long-ranged weapons with high firepower, a net ability,
and a melee execute ability. Hunters should remain together to survive Beast harassment.
Runes spawn in two separate places, marked A and B on the minimap.

Beasts are good at guerilla warfare. They can regenerate health, move around quickly, and
have a large sight radius in all directions. They can also track other Beasts movements,
and therefore deaths as well. Beasts must utilize their greater utility and regeneration
to harass the Hunters, killing them slowly and avoiding being overwhelmed by their direct
firepower.

Screenshots



Hunter Combat System

[​IMG]


Beast Blink Ability

[​IMG]


Beast Cinematic, Story

[​IMG]


Beast Cinematic, Tutorial

[​IMG]


Items



[​IMG] Hunter Itemization: The Hunter team starts the game with a lot of resource: they
have 1000 gold to spend, and can save it for future rounds. Killing
beasts grants a small bounty, so having good economic sense is invaluable.

If a hunter dies, its items will be dropped. If a hunter survives, they keep their items
for the next round. Note that hunters also have only 4 item slots - and an empty item slot
is needed for carrying a shard.
[​IMG] Contract: (80 Gold)

Grants 50 bonus gold when killing enemy Beasts.

Lesser Beast Bonus: 25
[​IMG] Field Conditioning Kit: (100 Gold)

Regenerates 1 health per second while out of combat.
[​IMG] Gas-action Rifle: (150 Gold)

Provides a fully-automatic firing mode.

Fire Rate: 4 rounds per second
[​IMG] Studded Leather Armor: (200 Gold)

Reduces damage from basic attacks by 10.


Version Control



All iterations of this map are maintained in a public git repository at
Cokemonkey11 / hunters-hall / Commits — Bitbucket

Changelog



1.6.0 23 June 2019:
  • The map is now fully written in Wurst!
  • The map now uses the Wurst Standard Library 2.
  • Reworked damage detection to use DamageEvent, for 1.31 compat.
  • The cinematic can now be skipped with fewer votes (2/3).

1.5.1 6 September 2015:
  • Hunter Net ability has been reworked to provide less binary gameplay.
  • Hunters Hall now supports up to 6v6!
  • Fixed a bug where hunter's rifle ability could be unfairly used to target enemies with
    higher accuracy - this was mostly abused by AI.
  • Fixed a bug where the burst rifle's channeling animation would not be interrupted.

1.5.0 3 May 2015:
  • There are now four items which hunters can purchase at the marketplace! This has the
    implication that Hunters no longer have a toggle-weapon-mode ability - instead, fully-
    automatic mode is acquired by purchasing an item.
  • Burst attack mode now has a 1-second cooldown.
  • The map triggers have been fully converted to Jurst! This has the implication that
    changes to source are more accountable, and pull requests can be considered.
  • End-of-round conditions now have unique visual effects and sound-bites.
  • Adjusted mdl data for the fountain at beast spawn zone.
  • Added some cute music.

1.4.2 24 April 2015:
  • Fixed a critical bug related to hunter attack multiplicity.

1.4.1 23 April 2015:
  • Hunter now has a short-cooldown sprint ability.
  • Hunter Projectile Damage 25 -> 30.
  • Hunter Knife Damage 30 -> 35.
  • Hunter Knife Execute Damage 50 -> 60.
  • Hunter Knife Cooldown 15s -> 10s (50% cooldown reduction on execute still applies).
  • Adjusted terrain near the north entrance to Shard B, opening a third offensive path.
  • Adjusted terrain at beast spawn zone (mostly cosmetic).
  • Fixed a bug related to the damage value written in Hunter attack tooltips.
  • Fixed a bug related to terrain pathing in the north of the town.

Older Changes
1.4.0 21 April 2015:
  • There are now two rune spawn points, neither of which are directly in the Beast spawn
    area. Any one rune can be returned to secure victory.
  • Hunters and Beasts are now hero-units, which is only cosmetic.

1.3.0 15 April 2015:
  • Beast's Thunder ability has been replaced with an attack-modifier, which should be
    more rewarding to use effectively, and provide more options for beast attacking patterns.
  • Beast attack has been adjusted to be slower, but harder hitting, while also removing
    some of the unpredictability issues related to its damage over time component by removing
    its ability to stack, and significantly front-loading the damage back into the base.
  • Slain hunters can now observe their allies locations across the map using vision
    hints.
  • Hunter knife ability now has a larger enumeration range.
  • Fixed a bug related to rune of imperialization location.
  • Fixed a bug related to victory messages.

1.2.0 25 March 2015:
  • AI now properly takes over player slots when a human leaves the game.
  • Hunter AI now elects leaders and attempts to secure the objective.
  • Beast AI now retreats when low on health or lightning. They also try to use their
    thunder ability when it's off cooldown.
  • Before the cinematic begins, a voting dialog will determine the number of rounds.

1.1.3 23 Mar 2015:
  • Hunter Net ability no longer applies net effect to corpses.
  • Organic Hemisection and Organic Concatenation cast time no longer allows players to
    move selection circles.
  • Organic Hemisection and Organic Concatenation no longer leave behind corpses.

1.1.2 23 March 2015:
  • Fixed a major desynchronization related to the cinematic fade filters and fog masks.

1.1.0 18 March 2015:
  • Terrain adjustments and improvements.
  • Fix fogmodifier leak.
  • Add small vision bubbles to nearby hunters for allied vision.
  • Add two new cinematics, one for each faction, including lore and tutorials.
  • Cinematic can now be interrupted by popular vote.
  • Game is now, by default, a best-of-7.

1.0.1 2 March 2015:
  • Beast Thunder ability can no longer leak a lightning.
  • Map author name is now spelled correctly (credits to StoPCampinGn00b).
  • AI now replaces players who leave the game [untested].
  • Beasts now maintain their sight radius while casting organic hemisection and organic
    concatenation.
  • Fixed a bug where the game would not end if a dialog was open in multiplayer
    [untested].
  • How-to-play quests now have list-style markers.
  • Round time reduced to 4.5 minutes.
  • Hunter range increased to 1200.

1.0.0 12 February 2015:
  • Basic AI Implemented.
  • Terrain Revamp.
  • Quest Menu with Credits Added.
  • Knife ability reworked into skillshot.
  • Edited skin for Hunter's Hall to match Human Base.
  • New map preview.
  • Hunter's Automatic Camera now uses smoothing.
  • Cinematic now plays only once.
  • Cinematic can now be skipped if all human players press escape.
  • Hunter Attack is now a regular ability and must be targeted.
  • Hunter Weapon Toggle is now an ability.
  • Multiboard Revamp.
  • Alternate round-victory conditions added.
  • Time of Day now static at midnight.
  • Beast Lightning Resource Introduced.
  • Added lightning powered blink ability for Beast.
  • Hunters and Beasts now have Hero Glow.
  • Beast can now use Hemisection and Concatenation (split into two beasts or revert).
  • Hunter weapon behaviors improved.
  • Best-of-Five Win Condition Implemented.

0.0.8 3 May 2010:
  • Initial Version Uploaded to hiveworkshop.com.

Contributing

I will merge atomic, well-formed pull-requests if they are consistent with my design
policies and issue tracker.


Contents

Hunter's Hall 1.6.0 (Map)

Reviews
Moderator
22:48, 3rd Apr 2015 StoPCampinGn00b: Hunter's Hall is the definition of a simple map that follows the map submission rules. Players who enjoy a minimalist yet strategic team on team gameplay might just enjoy this. Map approved.
  1. 22:48, 3rd Apr 2015
    StoPCampinGn00b: Hunter's Hall is the definition of a simple map that follows the map submission rules. Players who enjoy a minimalist yet strategic team on team gameplay might just enjoy this.

    Map approved.
     
  2. Lacky

    Lacky

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Lacky's Review
    Hunter's Hall 1.0.0
    Cokemonkey11
    • Gameplay

      [​IMG]
      I played it, as the Hunters, with the AIs. The main objective of this map is to kill the Hunters or Beasts, and earn team points. If your team points is 5, then your team wins. When I was playing, I don't how to play the map, then my Hunter Allies (AI) just disappear, while I was still knowing how to play the map. Then, I look in the map quest, and click on the tab "How to Play". After reading, I know now learn how to play the map. But, a question form in my head, and that question was: Where did my Hunter Allies (AI) go? Then I keep seaching my Hunter Allies (AI), after that, I saw a 2 hunter corpses and 1 beast corpse, and then, another question form in my head: Is that my 2 Hunter Allies (AI)? Then, I knew that I don't have any hunter allies (AI) for now. After that, I still keep searching the 2 Beast (The other one beast is already dead), until I found the other two beast. I mange to kill the other beast, and didn't kill the other beast, at least, I manage to haft the life of the other beast.

      Round 2. I followed my Hunter Allies (AI), until I and my Hunter Allies (AI) immediately found the 3 beast. Then, we hunters lost. It seems the AI knows where the other AI and players going.

      Round 1 was kinda long, because I was still don't know to play the map. Round 2 was kinda short, because I know now to play the map and I followed my 2 hunter allies, and got killed by the 3 beast.

      The map was kinda wierd and questionable (For me). But the map, has a wonderful customized AI, units and abilities. Anyways, good map, I have fun playing it.

      Score: 8/15
    • Terrain

      [​IMG]
      The terrain needs a lot of work. I see a lot of plain spots, like our way to the beast. Add more doodads. The Hunter's Hall is good, but the outside of the Hunter's Hall, is bad. I only see trees, rocks, and so on. But I like the way you choose the tiles, it fits well to the map.

      Score: 7/10
    • Suggestion

      [​IMG]
      • Improved the terrain.
      • Add some more doodad in the map, like the outside of the Hunter's Hall.
      • Add share vision to the team (That's why I was lost in the map, until I saw my Hunter Allies (AI) got killed by the beast).
      • Add dialog, for more rounds, or points, or time and so on.
    • Verdict

      [​IMG]
      • Score
        Rate
        Status
        15/25
        [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
        Approved
      • Score
        Rate
        Status
        21 - 25
        [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
        Approved
        16 - 20
        [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
        Approved | Pending
        11 - 15
        [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
        Approved | Pending | Rejection
        6 - 10
        [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
        Approved | Pending | Rejection
        1 - 5
        [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
        Rejection
      • [/color]
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  3. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11

    Wurst Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,240
    Resources:
    18
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    5
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    7
    Resources:
    18
    Lacky, thank you so much for the review. I've tested this map a couple times now online, and I'm confident after hearing some similar opinions about what to do next. I've also added some notes to my issue tracker based on your opinions. I was also happy to see that although you tested alone, you had an overall positive experience.

    I have a couple questions for you if you don't mind!

    When you say add doodads, are you talking about just adding environment (non-functional) effects to bare areas to spruce things up, or do you mean I should fill some of the bare areas with functional changes - i.e. things that block your path and sight radius

    I haven't made any final decision on this, but I'm still looking for ways to provide interesting gameplay without giving shared team vision, in order to make the "human" experience a little more unique.

    Currently, I plan to do the following:

    • provide vision in a small area around allied hunters who are within some radius (2000 to 3000)
    • change the cinematic in the beginning to be a tutorial, which explains the basics of the game, and also makes it apparent that vision is not shared

    Eventually hunters will also have another method of ranged detection, perhaps via ability.

    Do you think that's interesting? Or do you still feel that shared team vision is the only way to solve this?

    I plan to do this, but with very low priority. Does that seem fair to you, or is this a feature you'd like ASAP?

    Thanks again for your notes, and feel free to add any suggestions or bug reports here.

    Regards,

    ---

    Edit: I've updated the map to maintenance release 1.0.1, which primarily contains bug fixes and minor enhancements. Stay tuned for the next minor version which will include new features!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  4. Lacky

    Lacky

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Yeah, I am alone to play.
    Yeah. Either this one:
    Or this one:
    But I like the things block your sight and path radius.
    I like all the idea, you said, but it's your choice. If you ask me, I prefer this one:
    I don't want to rush you, take your time, but yes, that is the feature I like.
    I will.

    By the way, use
    to hide your changelog, it seems get bigger.
     
  5. Shadow Fury

    Shadow Fury

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,625
    Resources:
    4
    Maps:
    3
    Template:
    1
    Resources:
    4
    Isn't it better to delete this map and re-upload it? By this way, you can wipe out that 1/5 and still have your map uploaded in the pending maps.
     
  6. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

    Community Manager

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,459
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I'll take care of the outdated ratings and comments.
     
  7. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

    Community Manager

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,459
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    The concept of the map is one many of us seen before. The thing is, this map isn't too unique from other round based PVP arenas.

    The map is truly on a minimal scale in many aspects. There are few rounds, the map offers little variety, and the map bounds are small itself. I'll be more specific about how the map is on a minimal scale. Features such as options to choose the amount of rounds are non-existent. The problem with this is that matches end too quickly. I can foresee many getting annoyed at this if they wanted to play more and they would tediously keep starting new games. This could be especially annoying if players are playing online.

    The gameplay offers little variety. Variety is not always good, but when a map offers the same scenario over and over, it gets repetitive. Yes, there are two factions both with a set of abilities, but that's all the change up you would get. Things like different sub maps to play on (like in mad balls arena or uther party), more heroes to choose from, customization, game control (such as options to enable / disable things), dynamic events or obstacles, would usually help more people to enjoy maps.

    The AI was alright. Perhaps it would be very useful for testing, but it isn't really a competitive match against bots when the two teams collide in the same spot over and over. Also, I don't think the AI beasts are using Organic Hemisection.

    What did surprise me, however, is how the map is balanced despite how the two factions have different abilities and playing style. Good job on this.

    The terrain is fair. What I noticed is that you didn't do well executing nice looking natural themed areas. The tiles look forced and unnatural. It just seems like everything started off as dirt and you added abnormally large patches of vines and leaves. This can be improved by simply having more tile variation. It's usually an easy thing to do, make the tiles less monotone and have a mixture. This doesn't mean to paint the ground in random strokes like a toddler, this means to have the tiles correspond to the environment.

    Decoration wise, it was also sub par. There simply is a general lack of decorations, but the ones you placed on the map such as human structures, and obelisks around the beasts spawn looked spiffy.

    To sum it up, the map visually is acceptable, but could improve greatly. The gameplay is on the border of it being acceptable. It is good that you had hotkeys, informative descriptions, a not too generic combat style, and balance, but the negatives slightly outweigh the positives.

    Map set to needs fix. It's your choice if you want to work on this or work on a new map :thumbs_up:
     
  8. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11

    Wurst Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,240
    Resources:
    18
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    5
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    7
    Resources:
    18
    StoPCampinGn00b, thanks very much for the review. I'll address your concerns individually if that's alright:

    I am a minimalist myself, and prefer games that offer a good user experience and good game design over boundless features and entities - these are mistakes that create an illusion of choice, and mask competitive design.

    The current match time is 4.5 minutes. With human players, matches should be about 3.5 minutes on average. with a best of five, this means a typical game requires 15-20 minutes of play time. If matches are not approaching 3.5 minutes on average, this is an issue of balance, as a fair match should not allow human players from winning much faster.

    However, you are not the first person to be concerned by the lack of round adjustment. I've increased the priority for this issue in my issue tracker.

    I have many plans for latter-round game flow adjustments, the specifics of which I've written below, if you're interested. However, these thing are of very low priority; the game is intended to be played exactly as the player understands in the first 2 minutes of learning. The important characteristics of this map are the competitive nature and natural learning curve.

    specifics

    • A fire-wielder, scout, and support class will be added to the hunter faction. The specifics for changing class are yet to be decided. fire-wielders have a continuous attack behavior but limited ammunition. Fires also remain burning in an area over time. They also have bonus armor and their abilities specialize in resistance. Fire-wielder is intended to be a beginner-friendly class. Scouts have a boost to their vision range, but their weapon is less powerful. Supportive class can distribute pyro ammunition and bandage allies. The specifics for these things are all TBD.
    • Beasts will have the capability to evolve through a tech tree for each round they win. The specifics for these evolutions are TBD. The intention is to provide a snowball effect to the game so that winning teams have an edge in future rounds.
    • Neither existing class (hunter, beast) are finished in terms of abilities. Hunters need a method of early-warning detection, and beasts need a less reliable source of damage. the behavior of beast's basic attack is also subject to change.


    I have considered adding one additional map for vote, but this is the lowest of low priorities. Most likely the other map would be a smaller one for 2v2, and I would increase the player slots to allow 4v4 matches on the larger one. I have no intention whatsoever in having a map like mad balls arena or elimination tournament. Those games are one-dimensional and symmetric. Hunter's Hall is about exploiting a weakness of an opponent that behaves differently than yourself.

    At this time, random events and map adjustments are also a strict no. Players need to be forced utilize the entire map by game design, not by randomized events.

    The AI isn't alright, it's the bare minimum. This is a PvP game with the foundation for an AI to be used in testing and learning. AI is scheduled to receive an update with medium-high priority. Beasts will probably never use organic hemisection (reasoning below)

    reasoning

    Organic hemisection is a strategic ability for beast map control. Players should use hemisection to scout the map and identify threats/predict hunter movement. Hemisection should not be used for combat except by players very confident in their micro.


    I see what you're saying, but I don't really agree with your reasoning. Tile selection has to match functional implementation - but tile selection doesn't come first, functional implementation does. I've always struggled with building terrain but I've done my best to improve upon this (see 7f0720b) these are medium-level functional tweaks that should aid in the overall map terrain. However, I have another high priority adjustment that needs to be ready before the next release. In the meantime feel free to test that new terrain and let me know if you think it improves on these weak areas. (Please do not test non-release map versions in battle net)

    Similar to above, I really struggle with choosing doodads that aid to the visual quality without interrupting gameplay. I've added more rocks and things but I'm concerned I've already over-done it. I'll most likely wait for more feedback (in the next version) before adjusting again.

    ---

    Thanks again for the review. Hope you're all looking forward to 1.1.0 ^^
     
  9. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

    Community Manager

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,459
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    I admire your priority tracker. I haven't seen anyone else have one before.
    Perhaps I just wasn't a good player in the game. I almost always lost in less than two minutes no matter the faction I'm on. I did manage to win on both sides once after a plethora of rematches. I'm not sure what to make make of this.
    I'll probably retest it when you update the map again. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but since the terrain is fair, it's already acceptable in its current state. Making it look better visually, as you stated, wouldn't make too much of a difference for the rating.

    You have my word :)
     
  10. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11

    Wurst Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,240
    Resources:
    18
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    5
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    7
    Resources:
    18
    For anyone watching this thread, I'm making great progress on the introductory "cinematorial" - I'm about half way done.

    The tutorial will be skippable if all human players key the escape button, and features a separate story perspective for each faction.

    If time allows, I will also include some QoL AI enhancements. I aim to release the next minor version this week before I leave town for the weekend.

    Cheers

    --

    Edit: This map has been updated to version 1.1.0! This minor release features two new cinematics - over 1200 lines of vjass.

    Unfortunately I haven't had time to look at the AI, but I think people will be pleased with the new map introductions.

    Cheers,
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  11. Lacky

    Lacky

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    That was awesome! I'm really impress, and nothing much to say. I really love the way you made the terrain, when the camera shows the whole area, and others too. The camera are so very nice, it is well placed, and shows well.
     
  12. Kino

    Kino

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,677
    Resources:
    19
    Models:
    5
    Maps:
    14
    Resources:
    19
    Did a quick skirmish, once on both teams.

    Gameplay
    - I remember playing a prototype of this years ago back in the mapping clan days. It does feel more polished, however I think what applied then still applies now.
    That is hunters are significantly stronger as a group and beasts more so in a 1v1. Having one class favour sticking over another isnt a bad thing, however I find that the outcome is always vary binary; if the hunters stick = they always win. If they dont = beasts always win.

    The moment one hunter dies, its quite safe to call it quits on the round.

    - The playable field is also a little large; if you decide to go down another route you will never be able to aid your allies. This applies to both sides, it would be nice if there were some interconnecting paths between the main ones.

    Aesthetic
    - Some of the log doodads are excessively large
    - The undead music theme would probably work well here, its tense and might fit quite well.

    Otherwise I have no major issues. Id like to offer some food for thought, but that depends on what you feel this map should achieve.
     
  13. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11

    Wurst Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,240
    Resources:
    18
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    5
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    7
    Resources:
    18
    Wow, thanks!

    The AI is a bit relentless, but in my experience with human players, the beast team can always win. I think more time is needed to know anything for sure :)

    I will consider this. After updating the AI and testing with human players a bit more I think I'll have a better idea of how the functional landscape should be adjusted. Right now I think the terrain is actually more wide-open than it should be, but balance adjustments will have to reflect changes to the functional landscape.

    I have some pretty detailed plans for how the game will progress, and how it will be dynamic between rounds, but if you're excited to share your ideas I'm happy to hear them :)

    ---

    Side note: I've just updated the map to v1.1.2 which fixes a major desync issue related to the cinematics. If you tried to test online with no success I would ask that you try once more.
     
  14. Kino

    Kino

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,677
    Resources:
    19
    Models:
    5
    Maps:
    14
    Resources:
    19
    Depends on what you want from the map/what direction do you want it to go.
    I don't like the idea of someone selling a creator back their own vision, thus Id also like to not be that guy.

    For example, do you want rounds to be slower?
    If so, side objectives could be interesting as well as more maze like paths, allowing people to track and hunt more as opposed to simply engaging straight up.
    It works more thematically as well.

    If you want immediate clashes and players to "dance around" until defeat, then none of the above makes sense.

    EDIT: A side note but is there a reason why beast's dont simply have a mana bar to display lightning charges?
     
  15. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11

    Wurst Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,240
    Resources:
    18
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    5
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    7
    Resources:
    18
    In a balanced matchup, every round should be quite long - because if any team is winning before the timer is reaching low values, then that team is not optimizing time as a resource. Hunters should require time to capture the objective safely, and beasts should require time to kill hunters.

    Side objectives aren't something I considered before, but I did think about a way of making a second rune (i.e. there is more than one victory item for hunters). Maybe a side objective would be more interesting - I'll think more on this.

    I'm not really interested in circuitous pathing, but indeed fight engagement should not be straight up, as that would produce very unfair fights. Ideally the hero properties and characteristics should drive this part of the gameplay.

    In PvP games, information is a key component in producing meaningful risk assessment. In warcraft 3, knowing that a blademaster has low mana is a key property in choosing to engage or attempt to surround him. In counterstrike, knowing how much health an enemy has is the difference between changing weapons and/or aiming for his head.

    Adding or removing information is not only a major balance component, but a major design one as well.

    In this particular case, I have a few motivations for using lightning:

    • I'm not particularly confident that beasts will never have mana as well (part of my plans for producing dynamic gameplay between rounds)
    • I think lightning balls provide clarity for your own resource
    • By removing information, I reduce risk assessment complexity, thereby providing more room for meaningful risk assessment and depth. In other words, since hunters cant click you to learn how much resource you have, hunters can spend their APM on something else - potentially more than myself, the game designer, could afford, if the beasts used mana.

    And lastly, I just think lightning looks cool and I wanted to push the unique gameplay feeling that makes beasts different than hunters.

    Thanks again for your comments.

    ---

    Side Note: I've updated to v1.1.3 - this maintenance release fixes a few very minor bugs.
     
  16. Kino

    Kino

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,677
    Resources:
    19
    Models:
    5
    Maps:
    14
    Resources:
    19
    The reason why I mentioned side objectives was due a line in the cinematic "the beasts developed a symbiotic bond with the land" or something along those lines.
    I didn't explicitly mean alternate win conditions, but more soft-objectives that helped you progress to your main goal.

    For example; a beast could eat some sort of neutral critter, possibly healing or gaining a temporary power (hence the reference to the line above). Naturally, hunters could also shoot these critters to deny the beasts a power-up.
     
  17. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11

    Wurst Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,240
    Resources:
    18
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    5
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    7
    Resources:
    18
    Hmm I didn't consider that either - I'll have to keep that in mind if I make a second objective.

    Sounds like a powerup - I hate powerups :p kind of my pet-peeve.

    ---

    This map has been updated to v1.2.0 - this minor release makes significant changes to AI behavior of both teams. A pre-game voting scheme now also selects the number of rounds. These changes are very much community inspired, so I hope they're what you're looking for!
     
  18. Tanasren

    Tanasren

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    574
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Not like I enjoy minimalist maps (it looks like the map is very boring with only 3 spells), but i wanted to try it but it's not on makemehost so it's impossible to play it in multiplayer.


    EDIT : ok I tested it in solo and after 1 round of each class I got bored. Also the hotkeys are not convenient to some languages keyboard (but I bet you can't do shit about it).
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2015
  19. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11

    Wurst Reviewer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,240
    Resources:
    18
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    5
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    7
    Resources:
    18
    Well the map itself is not minimalist, there are many exciting plans to expand the gameplay, but I do understand what you're saying. The current version has the minimal abilities to experience the game how its meant to be played.

    I'm sorry you got bored. I'm aware that the game is quite lacking in variation from round to round. Sadly, this specific aspect is not very high priority for change (yet).

    Thanks for testing by the way.

    ----

    Edit: Also, I added the newest version to makemehost. It was also on Clan ENT bot already, FYI.