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[How-to] Asking for trigger support

Discussion in 'Triggers & Scripts' started by IcemanBo, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    Asking for trigger support


    Introduction

    We face many problems during a map development and often want to ask quick questions to the community to get rid of it. Usually Triggers & Scripts, or World Editor Help Zone becomes a good place for that case, but the helping process is not always smooth and so the support can easily become frustrating, delayed, or even denied if essential things are not followed. Here are some tips for both sides, for the one who asks, and for the one who answers back, to have a succeeded conversation in a helping thread.

    Maybe a first thing right away. Warcraft 3 is an old game and it's most likely people already required similar help that you need right now. We should use such cases and try to google for related topics, and maybe we find a perfect fitting solution with ease.​

    Information


    • Good title

      Choose a short and descriptive title. It should summarize the thread's content in a subject. Having "Please Help" does not explain anything while "How to periodically spawn units" can give the reader some idea what it is about.

      Title is not enough


      Describe your problem in plain text and in full sentences in your thread, so others always have the possibility to get a rough opinion on the matter without having to over-interpret the thread title, or to start analysing attached files. Especially if you want to re-create triggers from other games, do always shortly explain what it is about and possibly provide links.

      Goal

      Assume the reader knows nothing about you and your problem, so firstly always give an explanation of what your concrete goal is. With this, even you maybe already have an approach, the helper has the chance to "think from scratch" and might provide an other, or simpler approach for solving.

      Current State

      Share your personal finds and experience about trigger behaviour you already found while testing and playing. With knowing "is-" and wanted "target-" behaviour at same time one might easier exlude scenarios or isolate the problem to faulty lines.

      Content

      Give the user relevant content that might be used to solve the problem. Don't let everyone else create solutions from scratch:

      Not too little info

      The reader needs to see every information that is related, for example like:
      • triggers that interfere with the trigger with the bug
      • where and how are variables assigned
      • gameplay constants / object editor
      • custom functions and libraries

      Not too much info

      Showing too much unrelated infomation can extremely slow down the helping process:
      • When attaching a demo, keep an eye on removing not needed triggers/units, etc, to isolate the problem as good as possible.
      • Keep the focus on the problem. It's not optimal if people are required to read 20 lines about some introduction, while only the last line is about the actual problem.

    • Focus on user-problem

      Try to understand what the user asks for. Side-topics, like leaks, efficiency, performance, might be good to note, too, but it shouldn't be major, or happen too intrusive.

      Lingo/phrasing

      Keep your language and explanation as simple as possible. Hive is a site for hobby modders, and it's not needed to get things explained in a senselessly complex manner. It's a useful skill to explain complex problems in a simple way, while for example it will be worthless to post advanced programming approaches in GUI beginner threads. Try not to over-complicate things.

      Why, not what

      It's much more useful also to explain why the bug occured instead of only posting a solution without explanations. With having also the theoretical reasoning, it will increase the learning curve for the user and also for future visitors. Afterall we want to provide some platform for learning.

      Links, links, links

      In many cases there already exist same, or similar questions. Instead of re-explaining things over and over again with potentially forgetting details, it's often more useful to link to an existing tutorial, guide, or other posts which does already solve the respective problem. We should have an eye to have only a few threads with a topic which we outwork in good quality instead of starting each time from scratch.​

     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  2. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Ironically, I think this could be shortened considerably.

    If I was a new user and read this I would be scared.

    My guidelines would literary be:
    1. Describe your problem
    2. post triggers if relevant
    3. pictures are helpful

    Reality is more complex, obviously. But if your target audience for the tutorials are scrubbies I'd argue this is too much text.
     
  3. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    It might seem much on first look, but not sure it's too much info. But yeh, I tried to keep wordings a bit shorter, and also put the tip categories into tabs, so maybe it scares less.
     
  4. nedio95

    nedio95

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    Highly doubt anybody would ever see this here 1st thing after registering... More likely to create a "Halp plz mah game crashing" thread in site discussions with the informative first post of "Halp plz mah game crashing".

    Sad thing really... it is a pretty good tutorial... on something that nobody would ever think that they don't know how to do leading to them searching for this...

    unfortunately this is useless if it is not pinned in WEHZ + Triggers & Scripts + Pretty much every forum out there and made to use 300% thread title font size...

    regards
    -Ned
     
  5. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    Thanks. Well yes, I also think it's hardly seen, especially for newer people. The plan was to sticky it in the help forum once purgeandfire had a look on it, and agrees. : )
     
  6. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    Similarly to the "How to easily post triggers" guide, it is a thing you can link if such a thing happens.
     
  7. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    Thanks for this information.
     
  8. PurgeandFire

    PurgeandFire

    Code Moderator

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    Looks good! And I'd be down to sticky this. WEHZ or Triggers & Scripts?
     
  9. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    Nice. :)
    I would suggest T&S, because people there are probably meant to show some more content, or approaches already, whereas in WEHZ they often ask how to do something from scratch. But it would be up to you.
     
  10. nedio95

    nedio95

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    I'd say both...

    Tbh, you could remove the "trigger" bit and it would not change much in context...

    -Ned
     
  11. IcemanBo

    IcemanBo

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    Not sure. When I imagine for myself a typical WEHZ question I'm not very sure a "current state of concept", or code progress has even to exist which one could show, while in T&S usually yes. But well, I'm open.
     
  12. PurgeandFire

    PurgeandFire

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    Approved, moved, and stickied!
     
  13. nedio95

    nedio95

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    @PurgeandFire Stickying it didn't work out :|

    @IcemanBo I am ot entirely sure if there is a "typical WEHZ question", they tend to be pretty wild :)
    Some or most problems in WEHZ require code, or have tried something that never worked.

    Anyway, good stuff,
    it would avoid a few appearances of "MAH GAME CRAHSEZ !!!!!" and "I want a spell where one guy punches the other guy in the face"

    -Ned
     
  14. PurgeandFire

    PurgeandFire

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  15. Goohz

    Goohz

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    Hi, I'm new here and new in world editor ... and would like to know how I can create a skill that only works during the day ?
     
  16. Pyrogasm

    Pyrogasm

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    Generally make a thread for your question, don't just comment on a tutorial. Most people are not likely to notice the post here. That being said, it really depends what you mean by "works". Should the ability be castable but simply have no effect during night, should the ability be completely disabled (unable to be clicked but able to be seen on the command card) during the night, or should the ability disappear from the unit's command card during the night?