Historic Heroes

[kakuzu]

Hey guys , who is your favorite historic hero , i mean what historic personality do you like and why

 

[DEAD FiSH]

хајдук вељко (haiduk veljko)
he fought against turks in 1800s. he fought till the end to defend Kraina and Negotin.

 

[Direfury]

I'd have to say Vlad the Impaler.

To his people, he was a savior, a guardian. To his enemies, not even facing the Devil in hell was as terrifying as what he had in store for them.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

From our heroes, I would choose King Peter I. He stood side by side with our people, while our forces were forces to retreat cross the icy mountains in Albania, during World War One. Many soldiers and civilians died during that time. He could have stayed in his warm palace, but he didn't. Also, he wasn't a dictator. In his time, he allowed people to form political parties.

From foreign heroes, I would choose Alexader the Great. His tactical skills are beyond impressive. We also have the same name

 

[kakuzu]

My favorites are : Cyrus the second the great (590-529 , he made the persan empire and it was a great king ) Hannibal (the greatest carthagian general , the one who defeated Roma at Canae in 216 b.J ) Alexander the Great (one of the greatest conquerors from the history , he made from the small Macedonia a great empire ) , Leonidas from Sparta ( the spartan king who fight against the persan empire lead by Xerxes , with only 300 spartans , what a brave king ) .

 

[Gilles]

Audie Murphy

 

[Zombie]

Michael Wittmann: Highest scoring SS tank ace ever. Also a hero who died for his homeland at the end of the war.

Hans-Ulrich Rudel: Highest scoring dive bomber pilot ever, terror of the reds. He got his leg shot off and still kept bombing communists. He had like... 2000 kills with a Stuka or so?

Simo Häyhä: Scored the highest amount of confirmed kills as a sniper... without a scope. He was so badass that the Russians ordered carpet bombing strikes to take him down.

Jack Churchill: Fought in the second world war with a fucking claymore and a longbow, also had several confirmed kills with each. Extremely badass.

Wilhelm Bittrich: An excellent and humane leader who even refused to commit atrocities ordered by the Nazi party, despite the fact that he was an SS general.

Just to name a few of my favorites.

 

[Nuclear]

Alexander Fleming, who discovered penicillin.

 

[sonofjay]

Tadakatsu Honda from Sengoku Era. Fought over 60 major battles in the front line without even getting scratched(or at least that is what they say in the history). He's also called "The Man who surpasses Death itself" by one of the Greatest Sengoku General, Shingen Takeda(or was it Kenshin Uesugi?).

 

[VeljkoM]

I want to be different so I say Milunka Savic the most decorated woman in history. Also will mention Timoleon of Corinth who removed all tyrants from Sicily and then retired without wanting to rule.

Leonidas from Sparta ( the spartan king who fight against the persan empire lead by Xerxes , with only 300 spartans , what a brave king ) .

Also so bored I want to correct the common misconception. Sure there were 300 Spartans who were part of Peloponnese army (around 4000) that were joined then by the central greeks soldiers. Only on last day were the 300 Spartans holding the line for rest to retreat, except there were also 400 Thebans and 700 Thespians. So when ever you mention the Greek-Persian wars remember of all Greeks that fought not just Sparta.

Also can we call Alexander a hero. Yes he was great military leader but he was invader and conqueror not defender.

 

[kakuzu]

@VeljkoM , yes you are right in the greek-persan war , all of Greece was in war , Athena , Sparta , Theba etc but the sacrifice of the spartans was the most honorable , also yeah , Alexander was a conquerer and he deserv respect

 

[VeljkoM]

@kakuzu, not all of Greece was in war and many sided with Persia. And again with those 300 Spartans there were 400 Thebans and 700 Thespians so they were equally honorable. Also question is if Leonidas really wanted to die or did he plan to hold the line until the Greek army retreats and then regroup later. Greeks most likely glorified that battle because in reality it was pure defeat that resulted in fall of central Greece.

And I would say Athenes was more honorable as they actually sent aid to Ionian Greeks in Ionian revolt while Spartans refused, Athene then fought at Marathon while Spartans were late. And if it wasn't for Athenians, the Peloponnese cities would retreat and wait at Isthmus ofCorinth after the Thermophiles disaster instead of making counter offensives. And after those victories Athene spearheaded the liberation of all Greeks in Asia Minor while rest of mainland Greeks slowly withdrew their support.

Alexander does deserve respect for many things, I am not questioning that. But does conquest really make him a hero.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

@VeljkoM: He brought a lot of new territory to the Greeks. However, conquest is only 50% job done. He was far too busy with the conquest to actually run the places that he conquered. Greeks needed a statesman after that. That's where his lieutenants stepped in and ruined everything after his death.

That is why I admire Romans more. They took way longer to actually create an empire, but it was stable, at least. They were able to maintain their rule most of the time.

 

[VeljkoM]

@Imperator oh he was quite promising at figuring out how to run the new empire as he was open minded unlike Greeks back then. And I wouldn't say new territory for Greece as Greek states (except Sparta) were at that time in union made by Philip the 2nd but wasn't part of Macedonian Kingdom, and them lands in Asia were pretty much its own entity. After Alexander died problem is that his son was to young, his brother was not fit to rule which resulted that many of generals thought they had better chances to rule entire empire until and instead they broke it as none could hold it.

Well Romans for starters made conquered territories allies and not directly controlled them and slowly made them in to provinces. Also helped that roman citizenship wasn't ethnic and was given to others. But it wasn't stable, Romans had fair share of civil wars and internal strife during Kingdom, Republic and Empire period (actually that would be how they even made those changes).

 

[Deleted member 238589]

@VeljkoM: I'm not saying he wasn't capable of it, I'm saying that he didn't have time to do it all.

I said most of the time. They came across a few problems, aswell. I was aiming more at the fact that they lasted for very long time. (even if we do not include Byzantine Empire, which mostly consisted of greeks)

 

[kakuzu]

VeljkoM and Imperators , i like you men , you are great . Also how about Iulius Caesar ?

 

[VeljkoM]

@kakuzu He was not a hero. He was very skilled politician and was very good at securing his power first as part of triumvirate and later as consul for life which ended his life as it was seen as threat to the republic system and potential return to the dark monarchy times. And yes as roman politician he was good military commander too.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

@VeljkoM: I agree. I think he worked more for himself.

 

[kakuzu]

But he had a huge role in the fall of Roman Republic and start of The Roman Empire . Also how about Cyrus the great ?

 

[VeljkoM]

@kakazu
Yes he had huge role in fall of Republic and rise of the Empire but was it really a good thing. Empire had far to many civil wars for my taste.

Cyrus the Great well I didn't learn much about him but he did establish independent nation for his own people and gave birth to great empire but it was his latter successors that brought stability since under his rule Persia grew way to fast from basically nothing. It was Darius (yeah same one attacked Greeks) who created satraps and secured some form of stability.

...though maybe we are going off topic a bit. I am enjoying talking about history and people.

 

[kakuzu]

Cyrus was a great king , he created the Persan Empire by conquering Babilon , Lidya and Media , also it was one of the first great strategian of the ancient era , and it wasnt a dread king , he was a good king by sparing his enemy lifes

 

[Nuclear]

Come one people, I'm sure you can think of something more than just some military men. How have some ancient generals benefited humanity after all? I'd say the real historical heroes are scientists and engineers who have improved our quality of life and advanced our understanding of the world. Though it's completely fine to suggest world leaders who have supported advancement of society and culture while avoiding war and suffering.

 

[kakuzu]

@Nuclear , i agree with you scientists are very important such as Isaac Newton who descovered gravity , Michael Faraday , Albert Einstein , and others

 

[VeljkoM]

I rather go with Nikola Tesla as he actually cared more about world as whole rather then himself.

And traditionally heroes are more associated with combat (kinda what actually original heroes were) and also this is site about RTS military game where heroes lead armies. So yeah perfectly logical that most people here will think of military examples, mostly of people that died for their country. Preserving society is not less important of advancing it or else how would scientists and engineers ever been capable of doing what they did. Also police, fire department and hospitals are examples of modern heroes too.

Though I don't consider military leaders as "heroes", but they are important element of our history. For example if it wasn't for Alexander there never would have been Hellenistic age, if Greece had fallen to Persia would there be western philosophy and all that was influenced by it, if it wasn't for Roman conquests well Europe would not be anything like it is today. Pretty sure modern Iran is thankful for existence of Cyrus the Great.

 

[kakuzu]

Agree also how about Attila the huns king ?

 

[Zombie]

Scientists are great men, but do not meet the definition of 'heroes'. Heroes are people with bravery and/or extraordinary combat skills who sacrificed their individual well-being for the benefit of their people.

 

[Nuclear]

Well let's look at the wikipedia.

A hero (masculine) or heroine (feminine) (Ancient Greek: ἥρως, hḗrōs) refers to characters who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self-sacrifice—that is, heroism—for some greater good of all humanity. This definition originally referred to martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence.

So I would still claim that people who have saved millions of lives with their inventions and discoveries can be included.

 

[VeljkoM]

Well I did say "traditionally heroes are more associated with combat" and didn't deny non violent can't be heroes. But I could argue using the definition you provided that scientists and engineers don't necessary fit in "who, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self-sacrifice". I think that definition you posted fits better people who faced danger non violently like Ghandi for example. Scientists or at least not all don't necessarily fit provided definition of hero but nobody here is denying their greatness, they still are good people and philanthropist (though I consider neither some like for example Thomas Edison). Though maybe you should have used better definition like from Oxford Dictionary:

A person, typically a man, who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements or noble qualities

Still if this was thread about people who benefited humanity I believe the situation would be reversed.

 

[kakuzu]

I agree with you Nuclear , scientist are very important and they are heroes but when you say heroes you think at military men , generals , kings. Also how about Attila , huns king ?

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Scientists and other civilians are heroes of peace. Soldiers and generals are heroes of war.

 

[Nuclear]

I agree with you Nuclear , scientist are very important and they are heroes but when you say heroes you think at military men , generals , kings. Also how about Attila , huns king ?

Attila? A hero? Are you kidding me?

 

[VeljkoM]

Um conquering and dominating others is not heroic in any definition I know. If Attila had any genuine heroic deeds I do not know. I am not good with roman empire history I prefer earlier periods.

 

[kakuzu]

Me too , Also Attila wasnt a hero but he was a great lider , he almost destroyed The Roman Empire

 

[Gilles]

Come one people, I'm sure you can think of something more than just some military men. How have some ancient generals benefited humanity after all? I'd say the real historical heroes are scientists and engineers who have improved our quality of life and advanced our understanding of the world. Though it's completely fine to suggest world leaders who have supported advancement of society and culture while avoiding war and suffering.

Boooorrrrinnnggggg.

 

[Nuclear]

Boooorrrrinnnggggg.

Then I nominate Mao Zedong, who indirectly killed some 40-70 million people.

 

[Gilles]

Then I nominate Mao Zedong, who indirectly killed some 40-70 million people.

The counter troll. Touche.

Martin Luther King Jr. Is probably considered one of the greatest heroes of modern times. At least in the US.

 

[Gismo359]

Vasil Levski. If it wasnt for him, we would still be under Ottoman(Turkish) rule.