[Aeon of Strife] Help with ability balance

[AGNO12]

Hey, I am making an AOS/RPG, and have come up with this ability:

• Pick Pocket
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
  • Conditions
    • (Ability being cast) Equal to pick pocket
  • Actions
    • Hero - Give (Item carried by (Target unit of ability being cast) in slot (Random integer number between 1 and 6)) to (Casting unit)

I want to use it as an ultimate with a very long cooldown. Do you think it would be unbalanced to have an item stealing ability? What if I made the stolen item drop on the casting hero's death so it could eventually be recovered? I like the idea, just dont know if it would be unfair. Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Lordkoon]

It is imbalanced. As most items can be sold for gold. Unfair is one word to put it.

 

[bhusta]

extremly unfair spell.
take a look at softmints rise of winterchill. there is a female hero which has an item spell.
the spell lets an item drop but no other hero can pick it up and after 30 seconds or so it gets ported to the main base of the hero who lost the item.

 

[AGNO12]

Thanks for the input. Before looking into more sophisticated methods, what if I make it so only slot 6 can be stolen, that way a player can put his least valuable items there in case they meet the hero wth the item steal ability. It still may be unfair, as over time the stealing hero can just sell those items (or use them if they are decent) and have a considerable advantage.

 

[Talavaj]

How about the stolen item will only last on the "thief" for like 10~30 seconds after which it goes back to the original owner ?
And dropping or trying to sell the item would return it to the original owner immediately, likewise if the hero dies during the duration of the spell it would be returned immediately.
It would still give situational advantage to the thief by potentially removing items that might be key part of the enemy's strategy but it wouldn't be too imba.

Permanent thievery is just too broken, especially in AOS which put a lot of emphasis on items.
Also, this thread would fit into the Idea Factory sub-forum rather than in here.

 

[AGNO12]

Thanks, I like that idea much better. If a mod wants to move to this thread to that forum that would be great, otherwise I might just start a new more focused thread.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Give it 3 phases.
1. "best" item is taken from target inventory and replaced with a "stolen" placeholder item that cannot be dropped. For 30 seconds the item is on casting hero in a free slot. During this time the item is undropable (cannot be removed). After 30 seconds the item disappears from the caster's inventory.
2. For 60 seconds after that the item is out of the game (no hero has it and it is nowhere to be found).
3. Item is returned back to target hero replacing the placeholder item for him to use as normal. Placeholder is destroyed or recycled for next cast.
*. If the caster has a full inventory then phase 1 is skipped and instead phase 2 lasts 120 seconds.
*. Consumables should not be a valid steal target for the reason of the stealing player using them just to waste them.

The ultimate acts as an item advantage neutralizer. If the opposition gets a "rigged" piece of gear then you can turn it against them. It then serves to neutralize that item, removing it from the opponent team for a while so they cannot use it against you. If you are maxed out on gear the neutralization effect is enhanced and so serves to give you an item advantage over the other team.

In no way does it give you a permanent cash advantage or the enemies directly a cash disadvantage. It can give you a cash advantage if you kill enemies using their own items or if they die due to the lack of an item but then again most skills serve a similar purpose.

 

[AGNO12]

An excellent idea, Dr Super Good. How would the best item be measured, gold cost perhaps? Or should it be a random item in slots 1-6? In this map ultimates have two levels, so there could be perhaps a 50% chance of stealing an item and then 100% chance for level 2 (or just a decreased cooldown, but kind of a cop out).

Any ideas in terms of implementing the spell? I am pretty new to scripting, but it seems like place holder and the stolen item will have to be stored in a hastable? +rep for any pointers

thanks

 

[Daffa]

Well, it will be a bit hard, i guess use If Any condition to check if item is charged, which is most improtant as Dr Super Good said. Well we can use Gold Cost to check for the best items (make better items cost more golds)

 

[Dr Super Good]

If an item is charged it might be a good idea to just give it the extended poof time.

Random slot item is bad as not all slots might have an item (if he only has a rigged item and rest is trash you have a 1/6 chance of it doing anything effective). Maybe gold cost is the best.

Also if a hero has no items then maybe steal a little gold from him (a sort of penalty for having no items). In DotA scale probably 50-100 gold, enough to not be a total waste of time casting it (especially since it has a long cooldown).

 

[Daffa]

Yes, Great Advice Dr SuperGood

EDIT : I will report this thread to be moved to the Idea Factory Sub Forum

 

[Orthane]

Actually I think it might be a good idea to duplicate the item simply (Borrow the item for a period of time or reserve a slot on a hero to mimic items)

 

[Dr Super Good]

Duplicating the item renders the ability useless if you already are kitted out with 6/6 good items. It might force you to keep unused slots (be weaker) just so the skill has any effect. An ultimate is meant to be battle changing, it should always be usable and not be able to be made obsolete. It can be weaker or even do nothing at times (such as if the enemy runs out of the area of effect) but ultimately it will always be cast with the intent that it should do something to make the hero better off.