Hard to kill heroes

[Reon]

I may soon start working on a campaign of my own, one question I hsve for the hive modders is: What ability do you suggest I give a hero to make him extremly hard to kill, Ive been told spell immunity and hardened skin. but what are some additional ones

 

[Pyrogasm]

It depends what kind of units the hero might be fighting against. Activatable or passive? Ranged or melee hero? What kind of spells does the hero have? Etc.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Evasion, Wind Walk, Blink, a summon with Taunt, Reincarnation, Divine Shield...

 

[Reon]

It depends what kind of units the hero might be fighting against. Activatable or passive? Ranged or melee hero? What kind of spells does the hero have? Etc.

I woould go mostly with passives, but some actives as well, its supposed to be a melee hero whose spells I haven't decided yet

 

[cleavinghammer]

Is it for an AI hero or a player-controlled one?

 

[The_Silent]

Spell Shield (Amulet of Spell Shield) and Reincarnation I guess.

Lengthened life regain and armor is also options.

 

[Reon]

Is it for an AI hero or a player-controlled one?

ai

 

[cleavinghammer]

Then Phase Shift, but with a longer cooldown.

 

[Nowow]

There's a problem with giving a hero a lot of armor and HP regen from the start - it feels daunting to even try to beat it. Alternatively, you could create two passive abilities based on regeneration ring and ring of protection with multiple levels, and using a trigger change the level according to the hero's current HP. If it has high HP, it is like any normal hero, and if it has low HP, it will regenerate like crazy and be much harder to hit. This gives your hero the illusion of normality while making it difficult to kill.

 

[Reon]

what im trying to create is a hero who both looks intimidating and is tough to beat, it might feel daunting but thats the whole point, but I rather give the hero a number of good abilities than 2,000hp, he's supposed to have around 1,500 at lvl 10

@cleavinghammer
that would not go with the hero's theme

 

[Pyrogasm]

that would not go with the hero's theme

Then what is the theme you want to stick to?

 

[Leods]

There's a problem with giving a hero a lot of armor and HP regen from the start - it feels daunting to even try to beat it. Alternatively, you could create two passive abilities based on regeneration ring and ring of protection with multiple levels, and using a trigger change the level according to the hero's current HP. If it has high HP, it is like any normal hero, and if it has low HP, it will regenerate like crazy and be much harder to hit. This gives your hero the illusion of normality while making it difficult to kill.

This is a good idea. You can use that for other abilities, as Evasion (less HP, môre chance). Maybe you should say the concept of the hero, so it will be easier to help you.

 

[MyPad]

How about a bloodlust-based passive ability (not actual bloodlust) that makes the hero more powerful and durable the more hurt the hero is?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Defend + knockback abilities.

 

[Warseeker]

Mirror Image or Life Drain.

 

[Lord_Earthfire]

While there a lre a good chunk of ideas to increase the effective hitpoints of the hero, we shoupd also look at other ways to increase the survivability of a hero.

I'm mainly talking about CC abilities or abilities that require movement from the enemy. The less often the ebemy is attacking, the longer the hero survives. And slows play a crucial role here. Thunder clap, or example, is one of the main reasons mountain kings are pretty hard to take down. It creates a threat due to the AOE damage while slowing affected enemies, making them take attack less often. Knokback abilities fall into the same vein.

 

[Leods]

Maybe, you van create a massive damage objective spell, with a velocity of 350 (similar as the velocity of units)
By this way, the player must decide.if he want to receive massive damage, or lose his time running to evoid the missile.

 

[carlvic]

Make it cast an AOE slow that heals itself, depending on the amount of units around it.

 

[Veritas 117]

This is a bit op, but it fits with one of my heroes in my campaign since it’s a single player RPG. It’s a last stand ability that can only be activated when the hero has less than 25% health remaining. When it is used it deals damage to all surrounding enemies equal to the amount of health the caster is missing. It also increases the armor of the caster to allow him to sustain more damage and survive long enough to be healed.

I’m not sure what sort of map you are making, but just thought I’d drop this idea in here.

 

[Reon]

Then what is the theme you want to stick to?

the theme is basically of a strong fighter-type hero

 

[cleavinghammer]

If it's for a one-time bossfight, a triggered passive that reacts to spells and debuffs cast on him.

e.g. Sleep->Rejuvenation, Cripple->increased armor, stun->heal X HP, reduced damage->increased armor and vice-versa, etc.

 

[Reon]

look this is what the schenario is

you're fighting against a count -this count howver cowers in his castle while his chief lieutenant confronts you, you & your small army confront him and his small army, however I want him to be tough as nails at this encounter

 

[Pyrogasm]

Give him an aura that affects his allied army. The Lieutenant gains significant damage reduction against all damage based on the number of allies he is currently affecting with his aura, and his allied units in the aura passively gain health over time or have increased attack speed or some other bonus you feel is relevant. The way to defeat him is to reduce his damage reduction to a point where damage against him 'sticks' by either killing his troops (in the aura where it's harder or out of it where it's easier) or crowd control/taunt/push-ing his units out of his aura long enough to get in some serious damage on the boss.

I would scale the resistance such that he's totally immune with slightly less than all of his forces in close range, so killing like 3 of them makes him only have 98% reduction or something. As the number of allies diminishes this reduction becomes 90..85..80..75..65..50..30..5..0 so it is more effective the more you kill. Clue players into this mechanic by popping up big "IMMUNE" floating text when a damage instance against him is fully prevented, and perhaps pause the battle briefly to play a 5 second cinematic of him saying something when the necessary number of units to break the 'total immunity' has been reached.

Giving him damage reduction rather than the invulnerable ability means that while he can't be damaged players can still hold him in place with crowd control, debuff him, or cast other spells that require a target. They will also have to micro a bit to make sure their forces aren't wasting attacks on the boss. A smart player will naturally think to separate some of the boss's weaker force units and kill them.

 

[MyPad]

Give him an aura that affects his allied army. The Lieutenant gains significant damage reduction against all damage based on the number of allies he is currently affecting with his aura, and his allied units in the aura passively gain health over time or have increased attack speed or some other bonus you feel is relevant. The way to defeat him is to reduce his damage reduction to a point where damage against him 'sticks' by either killing his troops (in the aura where it's harder or out of it where it's easier) or crowd control/taunt/push-ing his units out of his aura long enough to get in some serious damage on the boss.

I would scale the resistance such that he's totally immune with slightly less than of his forces in close range, so killing like 2 of them makes him only have 98% reduction or something. As the number of allies diminishes this reduction becomes 90..85..80..75..65..50..30..5..0 so it is more effective the more you kill. Clue players into this mechanic by popping up big "IMMUNE" floating text when a damage instance against him is fully prevented, and perhaps pause the battle briefly to play a 5 second cinematic of him saying something when the necessary number of units to break the 'total immunity' has been reached.

Giving him damage reduction rather than the invulnerable ability means that while he can't be damaged players can still hold him in place with crowd control, debuff him, or cast other spells that require a target. They will also have to micro a bit to make sure their forces aren't wasting attacks on the boss. A smart player will naturally think to separate some of the boss's weaker force units and kill them.

Include summoning abilities for the lulz.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Defensive: Spell Block, Resistant Skin, Spiked Carapace, Defend to deal with most spells and attacks.

Offensive: Cleaving Attack and War Stomp/an area knockback.

Summon: Healing Ward, and a summon that Taunts as soon as it appears.

 

[Reon]

thanks for the input guys, some of my buddies have suggested that I create multiple devotion auras so they would stack and only affect the hero, so he will have very high armor until all of his soldiers are destroyed, is this a viable solution???

 

[:Elite:]

Simply give the hero hardened skin plus reincarnation with a fast cooldown

 

[Pyrogasm]

Be aware that spells tend to ignore armor for damage.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Maybe not just stacking Devotion, some Unholy and Thorns as well.

For extra fun, Spirit Link them all.

 

[Spear]

give the hero hardened skin + spell immunity

you can allso give it reincarnation or a poweful healing spell as the ultimate to make the battle last longer

 

[Leods]

give the hero hardened skin + spell immunity

This would become the battle into a "hit and run". You could not use any skill, greatly damaging casters and dps.

 

[Lord Esdin]

Here is what I would do:
*give the hero a good amount of armor e.g. 10+
*give the hero excellent health regeneration-to make the player unable to hit and run
*give the hero an ability that reduces damage from spells, e.g. Elune's Grace

with 1500 health and these additional things the hero wont be an easy kill

Lastly you could give the hero avatar or a metamorphosis like ability that is automatically activated via trigger when the Hero's health gets to a certain threshold, e.g. 25% or so making the battle even more interesting

 

[Cespie]

Mirror Image comes to mind, but you could also think of some trigger based mechanics instead.

 

[Leods]

Mirror image with same stats, it's true. Imagine spend fifty minutes killing the boss, to see it's just a mirror. Just use the mirror image-->wind walk combo.

 

[Reon]

@Cespie that would not go with the theme

 

[Reon]

Here is what I would do:
*give the hero a good amount of armor e.g. 10+
*give the hero excellent health regeneration-to make the player unable to hit and run
*give the hero an ability that reduces damage from spells, e.g. Elune's Grace

with 1500 health and these additional things the hero wont be an easy kill

Lastly you could give the hero avatar or a metamorphosis like ability that is automatically activated via trigger when the Hero's health gets to a certain threshold, e.g. 25% or so making the battle even more interesting

This is good! any other useful suggestions??

 

[Lord Esdin]

Give the hero a healing ability that gets him back up to full heal, and use a trigger to have the hero cast this ability right as his health gets below 15%

This will definitely frustrate the player + keep the hero going

 

[Reon]

Excelent suggeatin , keep em comming

 

[Lord Esdin]

If you want additional help you'll need to elaborate on exactly how you want the battle to take place

 

[Pyrogasm]

If you want additional help you'll need to elaborate on exactly how you want the battle to take place

the theme is basically of a strong fighter-type hero

you're fighting against a count -this count howver cowers in his castle while his chief lieutenant confronts you, you & your small army confront him and his small army, however I want him to be tough as nails at this encounter

 

[Reon]

ok. you have a strong fighter type swordsman hero with a melee attack, you have a small army about 50 food (but around 10 go on your peasants and 5 for the hero) so 35 food left to waste on your troops you have to go and and confront the count's leutenant's army and beat them. The main thing i want is for it to be really hard to eliminate the enemy's hero so the battle wont seem easy, the hero is also a strong melee type

 

[Lord Esdin]

I would recommend 3 things:
Reincarnation: have to kill the hero twice
Giving the hero avatar: again it would make the battle much harder
Giving the hero an ability that summons multiple strong units with either vampiric aura or some healing aura: Ive seen this done before and it will take things to another level for the player

 

[Reon]

is there any way to prevent the player casting negative buffs on him? I feel that thats an cheap strategy to win

 

[Lord Esdin]

I have not done any serious modding in awhile, but here are some options I would reccomend to counter negative buffs such as slow or fairy fire
*Spell Immunity - solves the problem completely, but may not be the appropriate solution
*Amulet of spell shield ability - blocks a negative spell once every (x) seconds, I think this should work well
*Give the hero the abolish magic, plus put it on autocast and make sure to change the targets option to "self", such that the hero will automatically dispell any negative buff cast on him

There are more things you can do just cant think of them right now

 

[cleavinghammer]

^^ Depends on the buffs, considering the suggestions it might be the only way to win. Especially with the stacking auras which can't be dispelled like buffs.

 

[Lord Esdin]

If you use the amulet of spell shield ability I believe it blocks a single spell every 40 or so seconds. But you have the ability to change it to however many seconds you want, so the player can still successfully cast negative buffs on this hero -he just has to do it twice under 40 or however many seconds for it to work.

 

[Reon]

@cleavinghammer the whole point is to make this hero almost invincible, otherwise the mission will suck
I wanna really give the player a challenge

 

[Lord Esdin]

If you want him almost invincible give him tons of armor

do this

create multiple devotion auras so they would stack and only affect the hero, so he will have very high armor until all of his soldiers are destroyed

this is very viable imo

 

[Reon]

If you want him almost invincible give him tons of armor

do this



this is very viable imo

how exactly do you do this???

 

[Yours Truly]

You..... give him tons of armor?