[Role Playing Game] Haldan's Dream

[Neruvatar]

@Rem , me too.
@Rasler , we are awaiting for surprises! Great project so far!

 

[Rasler]

well, i need a little direction and preferences.
Since the game is based on a turn based combat system, the possibilities are thousands.
For example, i can take 4 diferent ways.

You can have up to a maximum of 3 units in combat, and 27 in your reserve. Units can be obtain by capturing them or receiving from quest and others.
So...the options are:

1) Each unit can independently equip items such as weapons, armor, and accessories.
2) Each unit has a independent tech tree where you can upgrade base stats or skills, improving mana consumption, total damage, adding status effects, etc.
3) All of the above.
4) None of the above, so each unit has static stats and skills, which can be improved with level increase.

This is a very importat decision cause the main combat system will be coded based on this.

Waiting for your call and decision guys.

 

[Abovegame]

Honestly i like both option 1 and 2, although i'm more keen on option 2.If it doesn't bring imbalance then both.

 

[Cangor]

Both option 1 and 2 are good. If it doesn't imbalance it like Abovegame said having both would be amazing. Otherwise I like option 1 more.

With items you would be able to customize you units more to your liking, while with a tech tree it would be limiting later in the game.

 

[Leo Akastenix]

i would go fur 2 as it creates diversity.

 

[DevZ]

option 2

 

[Neruvatar]

option 2! =)

 

[Nordmar]

i would go for option 4 -> less work. Easy to understand for new players. I dont like too fancy stuff.

 

[Colonel Aster]

@Rasler Option four, you should make a thread with an open poll btw

 

[ArchDuke]

Option 4 actually, the other options would be so complicated that they would delay the release of any demo by a long while

 

[A]mun]

Time for a poll

 

[Rasler]

As requested and to simplify the voting, I put a poll at the beginning of the thread, with 4 different possibilities and choose the course that will take the game.
I like to build the proyect based on tastes and preferences, and in conjunction with all of you.
I await your opinions on this.

Thank you guys for all your support.
See ya.

 

[Lord Siler]

option 4, only because option 2 would likely take too damn long to implement

 

[Colonel Aster]

It's about time we had some sort of demo!

 

[Lord Siler]

There wont be a demo anytime soon if Rasler decides to use any option besides 4, since the others will take much more time to develop, so congrats people: we'll be waiting for awhile for any playable content!

 

[Rasler]

There wont be a demo anytime soon if Rasler decides to use any option besides 4, since the others will take much more time to develop, so congrats people: we'll be waiting for awhile for any playable content!

What i have planned to do, is release an early version without skill tree or inventory, and add them with the next updates.

 

[Blake8]

Sounds good cause I was about to change my vote to option #4

 

[Blake8]

Hey I was experimenting with formulas and I came up with something for magic damage, basically

Lowest value for magic and defense is 0, greatest value for both is 255, for spell power the range is 1 to 99

Damage = ((300 - defense)/300)((Magic + 45)/300)(spell power * 55 + 1000(spell power/65)^3)

How would I utilize this formula to actually work in a turn base system ?

 

[Rasler]

Hey I was experimenting with formulas and I came up with something for magic damage, basically

Lowest value for magic and defense is 0, greatest value for both is 255, for spell power the range is 1 to 99

Damage = ((300 - defense)/300)((Magic + 45)/300)(spell power * 55 + 1000(spell power/65)^3)

How would I utilize this formula to actually work in a turn base system ?

wowow, wait, why u ask that here, and what do u mean with how utilize?

 

[Blake8]

I figured out how to make the damage formula for turn based combat based on FFVIII

 

[Lord Siler]

Not a bad formula, making it turn based however requires a whole different system of variables

 

[qq694284743]

Good idea.

 

[Lord Siler]

seriously lagging on the demo though

 

[A]mun]

Hide most of the pictures into sections on the frontpage btw, it takes too long to load up.

 

[Razorfang]

Come on Rasler's make Haldan's Dream demo a reality for all your devoted hive fans

 

[ArchDuke]

I have been gone for months and theres not a single playable map for this demo, come on man its been going on since jan of last year.

I understand that maps and mechanic systems take time to make, but over a damn year, that's just ridiculous

 

[A]mun]

^ You wouldn't believe the amount of great ideas and projects that have been started and not completed over the years since the dawn of wc3.

Ironically, i think the easy to handle yet hard to master editor is somewhat blamable for that, because it's easy to use and understand (mostly) and almost anybody can make a quick prototype.
That can lead to an underestimation of the work ahead, which is combined with endlessly testing your project, implementing new systems, scrapping old systems, etc...

Not to sound pessimistic though

 

[Rasler]

Hey I was experimenting with formulas and I came up with something for magic damage, basically

Lowest value for magic and defense is 0, greatest value for both is 255, for spell power the range is 1 to 99

Damage = ((300 - defense)/300)((Magic + 45)/300)(spell power * 55 + 1000(spell power/65)^3)

How would I utilize this formula to actually work in a turn base system ?

I do not finish understanding the formula or for that it applies. Since a turn-based combat system is based on just shifts and instances where certain conditions such as buffs, amplifications, and skill-based reductions apply, the ideal would be something like this, which is similar to the formula I am using in the game .

DAMAGE = (Base Attack + Spell Power + Attack Amplifications) - (Base Armor + Attack Reductions)

If Spell Element is Strong againts Enemy Element. DAMAGE is duplicated (After Damage reductions).

ELEMENTS = NORMAL - FIRE - WATER - ELECTRIC - SOUND - GRASS - AIR - EARTH - LIGHT - DARK
Basically, the damage is calculated as a sum of the base damage of the unit, the magic power in case of using abilities and the buff you may have, minus the enemy defense added to the buffs you may have.

Also, the abilities each have a particular probability of failure, which do not escape certain buff and debuff that can increase or reduce this probability.

CHANCE = (Spell Chance + Buffs) - (Debuffs)

When I refer to Buff or Debuff, or Attack Amplifications I mean the sum of certain buff and abilities.

For example: If the attacking unit uses the Blizzard skill (50% accuracy) and has a passive Guidance (increases by 20% the chance that the skill will not fail + Battlecry buff (5% +) + Focus (25% +) and no Debuffs.

BUFF = (Guidance Passive + Battlecry + Focus)
BUFF = +50% Accuracy
DEBUFF = 0

CHANCE = (BLIZZARD 50% + 50%) - (0)
CHANCE = 100% Accuracy

 

[Manipulation]

This is the first time i encounter this project.... I watched your videos with the Features but im still not sure....

1)Is this going to have turn based combat?

2)In your poll, by units, you mean the characters/heroes the players will be controlling? i mean, its not a melee type map, right?..

 

[Rasler]

This is the first time i encounter this project.... I watched your videos with the Features but im still not sure....

1)Is this going to have turn based combat?

2)In your poll, by units, you mean the characters/heroes the players will be controlling? i mean, its not a melee type map, right?..

Both are correct. Fully turn based combat. Units are controlled units with unique abilities and stats. This is a tactical game.

 

[Manipulation]

Well then, this is just awesome. Hope its too much hardware dependent

----

About your poll. I dont want to choose any of them. And i would totally remove the forth choice. I know its probably the less time consuming one but its also the worst :/

I can sure tell you what kind of unit customization aka build options i would like to see.
What i would like to see includes both 1 and 2 options and ill go in detail to explain more of my suggestion.

Regarding items and Inherit class Skills/Talents (passives and actives)

I suggest open-itemisation system. Which means, for example an archer would be able to equip ANY kind of weapons/armors BUT for example will never be able to wield a Shield as good as a melee unit or even better, a tank type unit.
The way i imagine u can do this is by adding passive skills (inherit skills, with which units born/start) to every unit type. The reason i suggest inherit passive skills for the units is so that each unit is truly unique by default/start. For example, a hypothetical unit called Shield Master, will be born with the below passive skills:

+100% chance to block with Shields (shield types could vary).
+50% chance stun a target with a Shield.
+20% dmg when using skills that do dmg with Shields.

Ofc i dont know how exactly your combat or even stats system will be, but again, what i suggest here (hence the general idea) is to make each unit unique, with its own CONS and PROS. So that they can differ by birth.

Also the amounts and percentages u see are examples. Ofc they will depend on the balance of the game.

And to bring this back to the Archer. The Archer compare to the Shield Master will not have any Inherit/By Birth shield related passives. But will be able to carry a shield if the players wants that for some reason (hence open-itemisation system).
Again, the Archer and the Shield Master are two quick hypothetical units of mine just to explain you my suggestion on Itemisation and the first part of the skill system.

-----

Talent system related

There is something i really really would not like to see, and that is a system like old wow expansions had for talents. For example, spend 5 points on the first row of the talents to get access to the next row of the talents. That kind of system isnt really free, it just forces build options.
The better system is the system like the current wow (Legion) has for talents.

The above being said, there are many types of talent/skill systems you could add.

1) A system similar to wow-legion.

2) A system where units have their own (or learn by NPCs? dunno) active/passive skills and talents level 1. And as your unit lvls up, it gets a limited amount of skill points which you can distribute on the talents/skills you are interested in. The points must NEVER be enough to enchant all the existing skills/talents. If for example a class has about 10 skills/talents, there will only be enough points for 3-4 talents/skills. Because if they can enchant all the skills then the build options system loses its point.

3) A system where you can enchant your existing skills/talents with other stats/effects. You could do this by creating magical runes, gems (or whatever) that drop from monsters/bosses or players buy from shops etc. These runes/gems will have many different stats/effects (maybe even with negative stats/effects?). There will be only one slot of enhancement for every skill (is my guess). But that can change as well, you can make it 2 or 3, dunno
And ofc this system can be applied on items as well and as u can see its inspired by Diablo 2 like games.

4)and most probably other systems or tweaks on the systems i suggested that i cant think right now

-----

Sorry for the long thread. I hope my point of view explained clear enough.

 

[Lord Aiden]

This RPG looks excellent, @Rasler you are one amazing map maker, it is an appropriate release for the demo, I would like to experienced this amazing campaign called Haldon's Draem

 

[Rasler]

This RPG looks excellent, @Rasler you are one amazing map maker, it is an appropriate release for the demo, I would like to experienced this amazing campaign called Haldon's Draem

Well, im glad to say i almost finish the map demo. You guys will have to download some things:

- Demo Map.w3x (Map, no campaign)
- Elysium World.mpq (yup, this got serious)
- ENB Series (Graphics enchantment)
- Wc3 Versión 1.27 Patch

 

[Rasler]

Well then, this is just awesome. Hope its too much hardware dependent

First of all, absolute thanks for put so much effort and trying to improve the game mechanics.
As you say, the 4 options is the easiest and shorter of all, but it also lacks of entertainment.
Due the little time available i got, i will start doing the simplest method, and then, upgrading over time. I think that designing an entire system of inventory units and a talent tree, is to fly very high for now.

Returning to the idea of the equipment of each unit, if I understood your idea well, you would like to see something like how the Lineage II game works. Where you can equip any item of any kind, but by passive skills called masters amplifying the statistics of the weapon or armor depending on the class you use. A magician will have greater benefits in carrying a staff than a warrior.
While it is a good option to take into account, the only problem that comes to mind now is the immensity of combinations that this would give and therefore, unbalance.

Regarding the talent system, it's another headache that I have to solve. But again, the main idea would be something like you raise. That each unit has certain points that it acquires as it increases its level, to use them in the talents that the player prefers. Between the two options that had circling, was that which is limiting, that is, choose the path that will shape the role of the unit, and in turn depriving other talents, something like World of Warcraft.

While it is the option that less diversity and freedom gives the player, to a certain extent, in terms of game design, limitation or less freedom is always the simplest to program, at least from my perspective of novice.

I say this because by choosing a path in the talent tree, it would nullify other available paths. Forcing in a certain way to follow a traced route of talents that should be balanced. Otherwise, by doing freestyle and selecting talents for tastes, the design should be more general, more general talents, because again, it could undo a very strong imbalance.

An example that comes to my mind without thinking too much:

In the first design, we will call it the privatory method, which will choose a route of talents among several to follow, that route would have 3 talents available:
1) Increase life by 20 points
2) Learn skill: Thunderbolt
3) Gives Thunderbolt a 50% chance of paralyzing the enemy.

In this way, the chosen talent route is to some extent balanced or forced to follow a specific structure and that tries to fit, have synergy or a sense, give a particular role to the talent route.

With the second design, let's call it Free Method, we will have at disposal a number of talents that could be a little random. For example, (again without much reflection) We have 9 talents in that unit:
1) Increases 20 life points
2) Increases Defense by 1 Point
3) Increase MP Regeneration by 2 points
4) Increases damage by 10 points
5) Learn Skill: Thunderbolt
6) Give to Thunderbolt a 50% to paralyze the enemy
7) Learn Skill: Lightning Storm
8) Increases damage by 10 points
9) Increase MP Regeneration by 2 Points
10) Increases damage by 15 points.

Although it is a somewhat exaggerated example, what I try to emphasize is the possibility of being able to choose 3 talents like 4), 8) and 10), acquiring a total of 35 points of damage. Again, it is not the best example but I want you to understand that I am going, that there may be some abuse to have free choice of talent.

Something that I liked a lot is being able to "capture" or get new units, and that with an algorithm, randomly this unit can have statistics or different abilities than another one of its same class. That is to say, to have 2 equal types of units but at the same time, different. Something like that made pokemon. Giving unity to the units.

 

[Lord Aiden]

So looking forward to this!

 

[Manipulation]

@Rasler
Luckily i have played Lineage 2 for years and i know And yes, i suggest similar system for item-isation. And a little detail i want to add (which exists in Lineage 2 as well) is that for example a skill called Shield Mastery doesnt need to be exclusive to tank type units.
For example in Lineage 2 there are classes that can have Shield Mastery up to level 4 and other classes that max their Shield Mastery at level 2.

-----

I definitely prefer the more free talent system (the second one) but if i am not wrong you say it can create more unbalances. Maybe you are right.
But well, here is what i can comment on both systems.

Sometimes i find the 3 choices to not be the ones i would include in my build (talking about the first system). I know this sounds too picky but yeah it has happened to me thats why i think the Second System is better.
There is another thing you could do about the first system. Instead of having 3 choices you could have 4 or 5 choices (ofc picking 1 out of them). Generally the more choices the better, but yeah, that requires more time developing and all !

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That idea is actually very good! Its something similar to what Fire Emblem games have. Where for example two Berserker classes never have identical stats because of their story background etc.
I like the idea and the main thing i want to say is that the differences in classes shouldnt be too big, because then units will lose their meaning. Like for example, mage type unit should never have more speed compare to a ninja type unit, simply because mages dont train their physical capabilities the way ninjas do
OFc this is just an example to show u what i mean.

-----

But yeah, i look forward to check the map no matter its state

 

[Lord Aiden]

Can't wait for the release of this, it looks fucking awesome!

 

[Rasler]

Uploading new Videos...25% 2 of 5

 

[Kristopher]

Nice.
Sounds from Megaman?

 

[Cangor]

That looks insane. Doesn't look like warcraft at all

 

[Rasler]

 

[Lord Aiden]

Nice, so when is the playable demo gonna be out?

 

[Lord Siler]

Looking good, can't wait for the demo release! +4rep

 

[Lord Aiden]

I showed this to my friend and he literally couldnt believe it was warcraft 3!! It looks amazing!

 

[Rasler]

I showed this to my friend and he literally couldnt believe it was warcraft 3!! It looks amazing!

Haha, various users think that too haha

Looking good, can't wait for the demo release! +4rep

There are new updates!, i almost finish chapter 1, this will be the demo chapter!

 

[Lord Siler]

I'm getting anxious for the release, so much wait and its almost here!!

 

[Lord Aiden]

So any scheduled demo release date? I'm soooo hyped for this.

 

[Colonel Aster]

well it's been like 2 weeks since the last update, where the damn demo?

 

[Lord Siler]

Come on... Anything?

 

[Rasler]

Due health problems, i have to stop the proyect. Is very difficult to me living this way, thanks for all you support.