Gargonach 0.1.1

[Moderator]

Orcnet

18:30, 14th May 2013

Comment

Review

Gargonach (Version 008) Rate Score Percent Letter 5/5 91-100 A Rate Score Percent Letter 4/5 81-90% B Rate Score Percent Letter 3/5 75-80% C Rate Score Percent Letter 2/5 70-74% D Rate Score Percent Letter 1/5 50-69% F Overview: Gameplay "Gargonach" is a game based on a Boss Fight where players have to defeat 'Gargonach' a giant crypt lord in order to win. "Gameplay is dynamic especially on how it is tested in the fight scene, no more trigger flaws or control problems spotted but the attack spell is kinda slow or that's how the game should advantage." Terrain "Terrain seems fine even though it has a little flat tone to it." Management "To my conclusion, Gargonach is good map to be tested for players who wish to try out a different boss fight in a wacraft III engine." Total Score: Rate Score Percent Letter 10/15 83% B

 

[HammerFist132]

Okey Lets start

I like idea, I haven't play HL, now lets start with suggestions, sry but I must to dies on hard way to u know what to fix xD:
Terrain need fixing, I suggest u to at position of Vulcan create waterfall, and recolor it to red and turn it like river, need more details, and u should move pathing blockers nearer to rocks (usual problem it happens to me to), because sometimes I cannot walk on terrain near rocks,
Spells:
Attack, attack Is little strange because It damage Unit in from of me and behind me, make trigger like not 150 range from position of casting unit, then 150 range on point 150 in front of hero (if u have stand me xD), Really make lava do less damage, jump make casting spell like thunder clap and caster move with his current facing angle, because I sometimes must to run away fast and it's waste of time when I must do it with point, other is ok, need little fixing but ok, most of all I like effect when Hero die and spell of Boss, one more thing make just like /-\ not like |-\

 

[Cokemonkey11]

First of all, thanks for the first review!

sry but I must to dies on hard way to u know what to fix xD:

I don't understand this part.. do you mean that you're going to "go hard" on me in your review to ensure you have a suggestion?

Terrain need fixing, I suggest u to at position of Vulcan create waterfall, and recolor it to red and turn it like river, need more details,

I see you have found my weakness I've never been much of a terrain artist, and I would even go as far as to say that this is my best terrain so far in 10 years of mapping!

I like your idea of using red river and waterfalls for the lava. Some day I will probably do this but now I am not home so this submission will have to do for the contest.

and u should move pathing blockers nearer to rocks (usual problem it happens to me to), because sometimes I cannot walk on terrain near rocks,

I did my best to keep pathing blockers under rocks but I'll see what I can do if I make a new version.

attack Is little strange because It damage Unit in from of me and behind me,

That's a major bug. I'll fix it and update the map asap.

make trigger like not 150 range from position of casting unit, then 150 range on point 150 in front of hero (if u have stand me xD)

That won't work because the hero only has 35 game units collision size.

Really make lava do less damage, jump make casting spell like thunder clap and caster move with his current facing angle, because I sometimes must to run away fast and it's waste of time when I must do it with point

That's a matter of opinion I'm afraid. If I make it a non-target ability, some people will complain that it's too hard to aim.

one more thing make just like /-\ not like |-\

Are you talking about the boss's attack? It's not any specific shape like |-\; the projectile directions are semi-randomized. Maybe I should look into making them a nice cone instead.

..............................................................................

Edit: I've updated the map to version 008. Check description for change log.

 

[HammerFist132]

Sry for spelling mistake, my eng sux. About this ''one more thing make just like /-\ not like |-\ '' I think about hero jump. That;s all other thing are not so serious

 

[polardude]

is too easy to kill the boss ! you cant just stand a bit from hem and use ragnorak and hammerthrow evey time he move agins me i just move a bit back and he will go back to hes point and you dont need to kill the sand mill to come over to hem you can just use ligthopping to jump over the lava

 

[gilthoniel]

Good map terrain is not bad but it's very easy that i killed the Boss before i fully used my strategy to kill him and didnt need the fountain
you can add something to attack you when you are in boss zone
add more hp to boss
leap can damage a small area
add more minions to boss a small army growing with each time

 

[Cokemonkey11]

is too easy to kill the boss ! you cant just stand a bit from hem and use ragnorak and hammerthrow evey time he move agins me i just move a bit back and he will go back to hes point and you dont need to kill the sand mill to come over to hem you can just use ligthopping to jump over the lava

Good map terrain is not bad but it's very easy that i killed the Boss before i fully used my strategy to kill him and didnt need the fountain
you can add something to attack you when you are in boss zone
add more hp to boss
leap can damage a small area
add more minions to boss a small army growing with each time

Hi guys, thanks for the review;

Sorry if the boss fight was too easy. I was on a deadline for this contest, but looking back, the map as a single player boss fight is actually quite complete. I would like to do another boss fight in the future which is maybe more difficult.

To address your concern about being able to jump over lava/ignore turning on fountain, this is intended. Those features are "side quests" meant to aid you in killing him.

 

[gilthoniel]

Hi guys, thanks for the review;

Sorry if the boss fight was too easy. I was on a deadline for this contest, but looking back, the map as a single player boss fight is actually quite complete. I would like to do another boss fight in the future which is maybe more difficult.

To address your concern about being able to jump over lava/ignore turning on fountain, this is intended. Those features are "side quests" meant to aid you in killing him.

i have an idea that you might find it interesting make a fight with nemesis map i'd love to play something like that you may add
. selectable weapons
. music (nemesis theme you can find on youtube) and sound (starssss wuhaaaaaaaaaaa)
.awesome nemesis throw attack does stun for several seconds
good game and mapmaking

 

[HammerFist132]

Hey why is this back in pending?

 

[Cokemonkey11]

I've asked Orcnet to update the rating since the previous rating was due to a contest.

Not sure what's happening now.

 

[Orcnet]

Hey why is this back in pending?

because I wanted it to be

 

[Anderhil]

well i'm not sure what to say in front of this gathering of these super members of the hive ... but, nice map, dat resurrection animation thou.... how the hell did you make it?

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Yes, Gargonach curiously sounds just like Gonarch See time = 18:35

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Over 2 years later and here I am with fiddly, minor updates

 

[Arash]

Heloo Dear Friend! I played your map and wanna give you my sugestions...
The Idea of your map was GreaT! and Surprised me, it was so unique the abilities were cool the type of Hero attack was good I didn't find any Bugs at all! but I suggest to add 2 players and upgrade your map to a role play map,3 kind of Heroes for EXM a Tank hero,an attacker hero and a supporter hero or magus It makes your map more attractive to ply and defeat Gargonach, Add some items I didn't find any....I give 4/5 or 17/20....
See My work Too Thanks.... Battle for Pacific V 1.3.3

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

The game, in spite of having a very interesting concept, seems too simplistic.

The map itself isn't visually stunning and certain doodads seem to be where they're not supposed to be (the fire in lava remains even when it's covered by sand from the Sandmill. Additional doodads and some terrain changes would definitely make the map far mroe enjoyable.

The almost nonexistent variety of opponents (Scarab and Gorgonach), only two types of attacks performed by the boss (which, I have to admit, are well made and look very nice) make the game feel dull and boring after only a few minutes of playing; Yet the main issue with this map is that there is no feeling of challenge as you cannot lose - after death, a nice animation will play and your hero will be revived back to full health, as if nothing happened.

I'm sure that if a few more abilities and opponents were added (and probably a timer or a deadly incantation that Gorgonach would perform which Don Drogo would have to stop; or at least a death counter of sorts) would make the experience with the map far more entertaining, but, as it stands now, it feels very lacking.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

> The game, in spite of having a very interesting concept, seems too simplistic.

Based on your review, I think you mean that the game is lacking some details. I think that's fair.

> The map itself isn't visually stunning and certain doodads seem to be where they're not supposed to be (the fire in lava remains even when it's covered by sand from the Sandmill. Additional doodads and some terrain changes would definitely make the map far mroe enjoyable.

Thanks for the bug report. I track it here : Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #21 - fire persists on the lava after sand is dropped over it — Bitbucket

> The almost nonexistent variety of opponents (Scarab and Gorgonach), only two types of attacks performed by the boss (which, I have to admit, are well made and look very nice) make the game feel dull and boring after only a few minutes of playing;

Thanks for the feedback. I have added votes for issues

Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #6 - Alternate scarab units. For example jumping ones. — Bitbucket

Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #8 - Alternate hostile aliens. For example some kind of green lightning dude. — Bitbucket

Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #7 - [Gargonach] Spawn Scarabs ability — Bitbucket

So I will address these sooner.

> Yet the main issue with this map is that there is no feeling of challenge as you cannot lose - after death, a nice animation will play and your hero will be revived back to full health, as if nothing happened.

I'm a bit confused - why is that the main issue? Reviving after death and trying again is a theme found in lots of video games.

> I'm sure that if a few more abilities and opponents were added (and probably a timer or a deadly incantation that Gorgonach would perform which Don Drogo would have to stop; or at least a death counter of sorts) would make the experience with the map far more entertaining, but, as it stands now, it feels very lacking.

Thanks. I think the ideas I have are even more exciting than that! (spoiler example: Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #1 - [boss] Gargonach should have an ability (cast only once?) which shoots a projectile, sending you to a dungeon to fight your way out of. — Bitbucket )

Thanks for the review. I plan to make some sort of updates to this map in 2018. Happy for further feedback too.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

> Yet the main issue with this map is that there is no feeling of challenge as you cannot lose - after death, a nice animation will play and your hero will be revived back to full health, as if nothing happened.

I'm a bit confused - why is that the main issue? Reviving after death and trying again is a theme found in lots of video games.

What I mean by that is that the fact that you cannot lose makes the game lose its purpose - there has to be some threat within the game (if you die in this map, you don't care, it doesn't matter, because you have infinite chances to do it again. If there was some kind of penalty for losing or a time period in which you have to kill Gargonach, it would be more challenging and thus, more fun) or else no one will care to finish the map. Take Mario games, for example: You have a limited amount of time and lives in which you can complete a level which poses some form of challenge. This map lets you win no matter how you approach the boss - you can even kill Gargonach without completing any objective and just hitting him directly; even if you die, you'll just respawn and continue killing him. I think you should know what I mean. The player has to face some kind of a threat.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

@twojstaryjakcie Okay, I think that capture the issue much better. At some point along the way, the game loses its feeling of urgency:

* the map is all explored
* all the wells are destroyed and Gargonach is crippled
* the player realizes that reviving is easy

Here's how I think I should solve the problem:

* There should be a hard mode where Gargonach does more damage and the player can't revive without restarting the game
* A stronger sense of urgency should be maintained when Gargonach gets lower HP - he should have more sorts of attack, and some way of healing when the player makes a mistake, even without lava wells
* Some smoothing should be done so that really hardcore players can still kill Gargonach without playing through the game in slow mode - in other words, right now lava wells are too much a gating factor for killing him.

Do you think that would be good?

Thanks again for the review.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

@Cokemonkey11 Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean. The ideas you proposed would greatly improve the player's enjoyment of the map.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

@Cokemonkey11 Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean. The ideas you proposed would greatly improve the player's enjoyment of the map.

Thanks! Based on your feedback, I've created two new issues to track:

- Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #23 - In hard mode, the player shouldn't just revive without starting over — Bitbucket
- Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #24 - [Gargonach] Channeling healing ability — Bitbucket

And bumped up the priority on these two other isues:

- Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #7 - [Gargonach] Spawn Scarabs ability — Bitbucket
- Cokemonkey11 / gargonach / issues / #4 - [gargonach] flame-thrower spell — Bitbucket

 

[Cokemonkey11]

After nearly 3 years, this map has been updated!

The intent of this update was to modernise use of wurst tooling and collect some fixes related to the 1.31.x era of wc3 (which broke plenty).

I've also thrown in some new goodies as well though, such as:

- Gargonach now uses another kind of attack (spawning more creeps)
- Interaction with the healing fountain is now more dynamic/interactive

Have fun!