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Dungeon Master

Submitted by ZLY199377
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Map Description:

  The second Legion commander Ake Mond destroyed the human Magic Kingdom of Dalaran, some escape kill Hindus in the Wizards of Dalaran founded the ruins of this underground city. It is said that a mysterious treasure is hidden under the dark mage's wand.

Map recommendation:

3v3v3v3

Map contains:

- 32 gold mines
- 01 goblin laboratory
- 08 Transfer gate
- 04 Little Pub
- 04 market
- 04 Goblin Shipyard
- 04 Fountain of power

Authors Notes:

  This is my early years (2012) in the production of maps, today in the registered account, the forum finally have the opportunity to share the work. Because of this, I just started, so the production of this map is too simple and rough terrain design, texture is also less, please forgive me due to the larger map, it is very suitable for the post war alliance, therefore recommended for novice practice or entertainment.


Supplement:

  Players play computer configuration low this map may lag.




Above for Google translation.



ZLY199377
2017.01.01​
Contents

Dungeon Master (Map)

Reviews
Rufus
You need to update your description. Check this link out, as it may be of help: Description Guide - Melee Maps Status set to awaiting update.
Rence Kristoff
First of all, your map is the first or maybe the only one I remember using Towers from the campaigns and troops from the Human Army. [SPOILER] [SPOILER] [SPOILER] [SPOILER] This could go for the map description, with the use of proper grammar. A...
  1. Good effort,

    You should have English description (I don't think you have to remove the Chinese one, but add English version).
     
  2. ZLY199377

    ZLY199377

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      Strange? I post the content is English, how to post will show Chinese? This may be related to the translation of my browser.This can edit it? The following is a rough draft.


      This is my early years (2012) in the production of maps, today in the registered account, the forum finally have the opportunity to share the work. Because of this, I just started, so the production of this map is too simple and rough terrain design, texture is also less, please forgive me due to the larger map, it is very suitable for the post war alliance, therefore recommended for novice practice or entertainment.


    Supplement:

      Players play computer configuration low this map may lag.
     
  3. Haha you don't have to stress about quality of English description, it's the thought that counts. :D
     
  4. Augustus_Magnus

    Augustus_Magnus

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    With big maps more screenshots are needed. Add some.
     
  5. Rufus

    Rufus

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  6. ZLY199377

    ZLY199377

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      Has been corrected, thank you.
     
  7. Rufus

    Rufus

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    You still need some more screenshots. :)
     
  8. ZLY199377

    ZLY199377

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      Please review.
     
  9. Rence Kristoff

    Rence Kristoff

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    First of all, your map is the first or maybe the only one I remember using Towers from the campaigns and troops from the Human Army.
    [+] There are many ways you and the enemy can get to each other, and there are many possibilities of attacks that can greatly succeed or fail.
    [+] Makes you prepared and not just charge in.
    [+] You can easily get gold.
    [+] The Fountain was real useful, it regenerates both health and mana.
    [+] You can get the feeling of a dungeon, and it is a quite organized dungeon, kinda like a maze for me actually.
    [+] The Marketplace was nice instead of using the Goblin Merchant since it has more in store.
    [+] The use of boats, it was a nice touch.
    [+] Dungeon feel aside from terrain, traps (towers) and random creeps.​

    [-] Map Description is blank.
    [-] Enemy Bases are too near, you can easily get conquered.
    [-] Neutral Mines, too open, too small, and the mine itself is a little bit too centered.
    [-] There are few trees in our bases, and too little space to create an army.
    [-] You get attacked when using waygates, either by Towers or by Spiders.
    [-] Lone towers attack you even when you are only passing by.
    [-] Water areas aren't decorated much.
    [-] Neutral Gold Mines are too protected.
    [-] Creep Camps are too powerful, like the one with Skeletons and Revenants, and the Wraiths by the fountain.
    [-] You can get attacked by passing the Tavern or Marketplace.
    [-] Some creep camps are too small.
    [-] Some Items dropped are too weak.
    [-] Port area (The place where you can park your boats) Spiders there attack on landing, and egg sacks block the way to them aside from the gate itself, and they didn't give me items.
    [-] Space for the gold mine near the center is too small, for building, and for walking.
    [-] Creeps are used by the enemy, like the sorceress and the Archmage, which doesn't fit in my opinion specially the campaign units, this is a melee map after all.​

    [*] The Golems guarding the way to the center, they should be on the other side of the arch, they look like they were squeezed together there.
    [*] The Real dungeon look is found where there are creeps, but it was overdone.
    [*] If the enemy is smart, you can get surrounded, attacks from above, the sides, and in front.
    [*] Some ghosts by the fountain drop two items.
    [*] Gold Mines have too much gold in them.
    [*] Kobolds should have a hut instead of a tent.
    [*] There are items hanging on the edge where there are kobolds.
    [*] A goblin observatory completely protected, it's kinda not worth it.​

    [~] Design of the center could use more work in many ways.
    [~] The idea of boating, work on it more, it can have more greatness to it, the possibilities are endless, I'm sure you can find something to improve it.
    [~] See the quote below.
    [~] Do something about enemies that attack you while you walk, like the spiders and the towers.
    [~] Decrease Egg Sacks or Remove the Gate.
    [~] Balance the Item drops.
    [~] Expand the Bases.
    [~] More decor. All over the map and not just the water areas.
    [~] Balance the Creep Camps.
    [~] Add more than just a transport ship, you could even add what's in the goblin observatory and make the observatory itself into something more worthy of fighting for.​
    This could go for the map description, with the use of proper grammar.
    A nice effort, keep working, don't stop, greatness is just around the corner.
    3/5
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  10. Sunreaver

    Sunreaver

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    Lovely map
     
  11. LyunAvine

    LyunAvine

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    Cool map
     
  12. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    This is not a melee map.
    I mean it doesnt follow the most basic lines of melee maps wich can more or less be found by seeing current ladder maps, or searching melee tutorials.

    Imagine this, a melee player, used to play melee maps, or tournaments, see this and says, cool a 12 player melee map, and then
    a red creep just in front of a main base, very narrow land paths (seriously 1-2 pixels in marketplace), towers as neutral hostile!!, the center with red-green creeps very near, not good shipyard gameplay with narrow paths... I could make a very long list.

    when you design a melee map, you have to think in the audience that plays melee maps, there are melee players, melee tournaments, make a fun map to play with friends is a very limited audience.
    in fact the melee comunity is very hard regarding wishing quality maps. it is imperative that maps of the hive must have the best quality posible for that melee comunity.

    Category:Maps (8 Players) - Liquipedia Warcraft Wiki

    Twilight Ruins LV - Liquipedia Warcraft Wiki

    my favorite is twiligth ruins.
    but there is minimum quality to fill, in fact more players means more harder to keep the map balanced, and good to be played.

    I mean, probably this set up would be very inventive for some sort of altered melee, but melee has some basic lines to have a fun and balanced melee play.

    "so the production of this map is too simple and rough terrain design, texture is also less, please forgive me due to the larger map, "

    I mean you are saying sorry for the rough terrain design, land units gameplay is not good, and the soul of wc3 are land hero play.

    a good melee map, needs a very carefull design in land paths, if land paths are bad, is a start over thing, so paths can be good, and land battles can be fun and balanced pvp.

    I dont think a map like this should be approved, I mean if the melee land gameplay is bad, the map is bad
    sorry pal 1/5 from me,
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  13. ZLY199377

    ZLY199377

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      God, how many years have it been This is a work that I published in 2017 when I just registered my account in "HiveWorkshop". I made this map more than ten years ago. At that time, I was only 15 years old. I was just expelled from school. I played truant and went home. I didn't even know what the "terrain editor" knew. What could I do to make a good map?

      According to my criteria for judging a map, first of all, the square structure of this map is not up to standard. It is not round enough, which means that the map author is lazy! Moreover, the four camps in the map are too far apart, and the routes are as complex as a maze. This alone will lose the significance of the game. Even if the single game computer AI does not take the initiative to attack the players, it is beyond the scope of the AI system to capture players.

      I don't know how this unqualified map was passed by the "map auditor" at that time! Maybe they passed me because they opened the "new protection" for me? I can only say that I regret that this time I have modified a wrong character in the article and that this post has been put on the top. This map has been deleted from my computer for a long time, because I saw that it was so failed that leaving it in my favorites was an insult to my current work.

      That's not a good map, you gave back 1 ★? If it was me,no reward ★!
     
  14. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    but you uploaded the map when you were 24?
    still age doesnt matter, I saw a very awfull 1v1 from a 31 years, is not about age.


    just look the melee maps that comes with wc3 game, play it a little and try to do something similar?

    is more hard to do such complex maze than just plain land that allows to have good land pvp.
    is not a problem of editor skill,

    acording to my criteria,land pvp is very bad, 1 pixel ramp?
    very small expo, and very small paths

    upload_2020-9-11_8-25-11.png

    3v3v3v3, how will so many land armies fight in such narrow paths, and marketplace, 1 pixel size?

    upload_2020-9-11_8-25-25.png

    is a pity to see so much effort in a 12 player map, and that this map cant be recommended to be played.

    if you want to call it complex, this complex kills land play, and this is a stay in your base, do a lot of gryphons stuff, you can stalk land units from air in such small corridors, wich is not balanced or fair play.


    sadly this is not about the broken AI, none melee player will desire to play this
    12 players wont conect in wc3 to play this map

    that worries me, thats why I wanted to post this quality should not be approved because the main problem is the land and water path (since also has shipyards)

    thats happens when you edit an old map, is considered as an update
    it is sad that you were more worried to fix the wrong character and not to fix a little more the map.


    eeeh, you can ask the current map reviewers to ask them to set this to substandard, if you think this is an insult to your current work. In fact it would be ideal, because you dont want bad quality maps in your profile, melee or even altered melee players that see this will sure avoid to download more content from you, if you plan to keep mapping .


    Hiveworkshop, offers a rate system, users are free to rate, but good users will give fair rate, and explain the rate, acording to the quality of the map

    what score you where expecting?, seriously asking?,I am not a melee player, what score would you espect from a melee player?

    a 2/5 means is near 3/5 and that with many changes can get a 3/5.
    1/5 means it must to start over, land and water pathing, and overall gamplay is not following the very basic lines of melee.
    and as I said this layout gamplay could be interesting in some sort of altered melee.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  15. ZLY199377

    ZLY199377

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      This map has become history. I will not modify the contents of the map.

      The inadequacy of history can teach future generations a lesson. It is meaningless to change history into modernity. After all, this map can also provide some experience for beginners.

      I will adopt your proposal and improve it in future maps.

      I can't speak English. The "English translation machine" may have translated a lot of the contents of the text incorrectly and caused misunderstanding. Therefore, I can't reply too much.

      The fate of this map, let the players decide.
     
  16. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    well thats the worst response that a mapper or a game-company cans say.
    -maps and games with poor quality that doesnt get updated will remain being poor quality.
    -pro games like elemental tower td or melee maps like Ruins of Aszhara or Brigthwater oasis, got their best quality by doing tons of updates since the first realease.

    with that logic all that has poor quality should remain poor quality?. I am totally against such stasis
    In the same way Blizzard removed bad maps from ladder, in the same way someday, I wish Hiveworkshop should remove from the approved section many very bad melee maps. Hive has more than 750 melee maps, is not fun to search good maps among 750, the overall lack of quality in melee is not a good thing for the site

    100% totally disagree
    thanks to many users that took old games and made fix patchs, those games can be played and enjoyed today in windows 8 and windows 10. those users changed history into modernity and is the best thing to do for a game.
    even there are a lot of custom mods for games, very nice to test or see in youtube.

    while games that didnt get updated, they cant be played
    armies of exigo, warhammer mark of chaos, are incompatible with intel graphics
    empire earth 1 crahses, red alert 2 crashes

    but this is a map that can be downloaded, can be updated, can be changed
    history and maps are two different things.

    I dont see any good reason, why this map cant be improved, if you are willing to do more maps.
    improves is the best thing a map can have, this 12-player underground map, can be better designed for both land and water gameplay.

    I see, english is not my main languaje, but I understand your ideas

    there is no shame in make bad maps, but not improve is a lost oportunity, improves are the best thing for any map, and improves shouldnt be denied because "this is history dont change nothing" that may be with old greek art but not in games.

    games are ment to be played and improved with time with updates.

    I would like to point as a very good thing that I enjoyed this exchange of ideas, is a good way of learning, I wish you good luck
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  17. ZLY199377

    ZLY199377

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      Well, what you said is also reasonable. Since what can be changed, why not?

      I can't thank you enough for paying so much attention to this post and giving me so many suggestions as writing a novel.

      Maybe when you see an unqualified work, you hope it will become better, otherwise you will feel uncomfortable if the author does not modify it! Just like an uncompleted building that nobody cares about, in fact, I also have this kind of psychology.

      But I don't want to modify this map at present. If I want to modify it in the future, I will publish it as a new map, such as map version 1.1 or 1.2 and so on. And the historical version as a reservation, this is my principle, please understand.

      In addition to this map, several unqualified maps I released later have been updated and improved, such as bugs, typos, balance and so on. You can go to my home page and see that their update dates are in the near future.

      In addition, what is your native language? :psmile:
     
  18. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    exaclty, there is a posibility of a 12 player dungeon/underground melee map, with better land play and better boat play, is just a matter of redesign the pathing.


    well, em, melee tutorials, and look ladder melee maps is more usefull,or even see gameplays in youtube, than me pointing 2 things,

    there are 2 ways of mapping

    1)map lots of maps, like a machine gun, until one hit the target, and 1 map gets top quality.
    like 40 bad maps and the 41 gets the quality for a tournament.
    2)map 1-2 maps and update those maps all the time till perfection.

    I did the 1, but the 2 is much better because is good that a map that is constantly updated, people will know it, so is like you know it, it has 3 years, people know it.

    I am seeking that I want to have few maps but perfect quality.


    you can have your "historical version" and the new version, both on the same thread.
    Ruins of aszhara has 2 versions, 1 with fountains, the other with no fountains for more balanced play.

    I believe you, is good that you constantly want to update your maps,
    I am very secretive in public, I can tell you via pm, if you wish to know.
     
  19. Houston

    Houston

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    I play it FFA or 1x1x1x9 instead of 3x3x3x3 with AMAI bots. Fountain of power near base makes very untraditional decisions) Possibility to obtain 4th hero at the centre by rune its very fun too, like it. I'm tired of standart maps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020