DOTA - pros and cons?

[Raven0]

I am making a mod and I would like to know what people think about DOTA. Specifically what do you think was good and bad about it? What areas could really use some work, and what areas should be left alone?

Please no "I hate dota" comments. Specifically say what you don't like about the game if you hate it.

 

[aki15]

I like to play dota sometimes ...
But they should work a little on terrain and balance... There are some really too strong heroes....
I don't know what to say else ....
Nice thread !

 

[Hemske]

Should this be at the off-topic section?
This will most likely end up in a flame war.

But I can give you at least one constructive comment.

I myself is an dedicated Dota-player. Love the map, hate the community.

Pros:
-Enormous options and combinations with heroes and items. (SYNERGY)
-Very dependant on teamplay, which for me is one of the reasons I find it so amusing, to get together with four friends and try out all combinations you've thought of.
-Very many heroes. Which more or less are quite/decently balanced.
-One game takes about 40-60 minutes which is not too long nor too short.
-Interesting skills and heroes.
-Constantly updated with new features, heroes, items and balance fixes.
-Simple, intense gameplay.
-Not too shiny spells, which is very important because otherwise it would be too messy.

Cons:
-Some hero combinations has absolutely no chance against some heroes. Bet this is more or less unavoidable though. For instance (Don't know if you are playing Dota yourself) Clinkz stand absolutely no chance in hell against Enchantress.
-Stupid hotkeys.
-Not so much originality. The towers are just regular attacking buildings. The creeps is just regular attacking units. Icy spends so much time on the heroes/balance/items that the gameplay is left in the dark a bit. You could enhance it quite a bit. (Not too much though, it has to stay simple)
-Unfriendly to new players. It takes time to get used to the gameplay and you sort of have to know what every single hero in the game does or what skill they are using. Especially the items and the recipes are hard to find or get used to.
-Terrain.

I honestly can't think of so much cons of it (not at the moment, at least).
Dota is currently my favourite gaming experience and has been that for at least the last three years.

 

[Direfury]

If you're making every hero extremely powerful, keep their attacks flashy. If a hero slams another character into the ground, make the screen shake, put a crater where the victim lands.

Keep it busy, with moments for rest for the characters.

The terrain should be kept in mind, use certain doodads for platforms, be sure to get a terrain tester/viewer to go over what you've made, go for a certain 'feel' for it.


Another thing is battle intricacy. If you have largescale battles, make the warriors more diverse, make it so any heroes participating will have to dodge catapult fire while fighting.

Realism equates diversity.


For example, an assassin shouldn't have big, glowy attacks, be more inclined to run up and attack before disappearing.

Keep a template for heroes, and make sure to give their attacks matching hotkeys depending on their place in the UI so you know what hotkeys aren't available for use with items or upgrades.


Other than all that, unless an ability explicitly calls for it, have summons act on their own, but stay near the summoner.

 

[Joe-black-5]

synergy synergy synergy
it's all about synergy. (items also)
oh and a little micro
I will leave this thread and see how it develops, and I hope no Dota drama will come out of it.

 

[Hemske]

synergy synergy synergy
it's all about synergy. (items also)
oh and a little micro

Yeah, I second that as well.
That is more or less what I meant with the enormous choices of combinations between heroes/items.

 

[Raven0]

Love the map, hate the community.

I hear this alot, thanks for your review.

-Enormous options and combinations with heroes and items.
-Very dependant on teamplay, which for me is one of the reasons I find it so amusing, to get together with four friends and try out all combinations you've thought of.

Two things I'm definitely focusing on in my mod.

I think players should be given as much customization as possible to keep the game interesting and give a large number of different play styles. I also think this will work to allow more experienced players to play better as they are aware of the different styles and how to counter them. My main problem here is trying to keep the game easy to learn but difficult to master. When you add so many different options and paths it can be daunting for new players.

I also want to make teamwork a major aspect of my mod. DOTA always had excellent synergy between abilities (i.e. Mortred) but I think they could have varied their class-styles a bit. By that I mean, had more support-style heroes who didn't work well alone but did well in groups or with a partner.

 

[Ironside]

Pros:

Unique heroes
Lots of heroes & items
Big community
Lots of modes

Cons:

Unbalanced heroes (some)
Updated too low (once every few months is just too low)
Too much depends on allies (if they bad, you have about 80% to lose)


That's all I can think of right now.

 

[Direfury]

If you want to add some more diversity to the playstyles, build up two or three trash characters using essentials. No flashy attacks of their own, little heavy hitting or buff support potential alone. Create some trash Combo items, have them effect the Trash Hero to augment his power, make him significantly stronger, to contend with others of his level.

 

[Raven0]

Lots of modes

Any modes inparticular that you liked?

 

[Dr Super Good]

AoS maps like DotA are saturated.

There are 3-4 dedicated offical stand alone games for that game type as well as hundreds of maps in WC3 and dozens in SC2.

DotA is an ok map in my opinion. It is clear from playing even a short time that it reaks of polish and work. It however is not my kind of map (prefer coop or casual less direct pvp).

 

[Fussiler1]

Just before this discussion gets on wheels, I want to say:

Popularity isn't quality.

And I dislike DotA.

 

[En_Fuego]

Just before this discussion gets on wheels, I want to say:

Popularity isn't quality.

And I dislike DotA.

You, sir, did not read the topic, obviously, otherwise you would not be posting this.

As for DotA, I really enjoy how you can play any hero (even an int hero) and end up carrying your team to victory, even in "late game" when int heroes are supposedly weaker than agi or str.

I think achieving that kind of balance is what takes any sub-par game into a a great game. A lot of people who play DotA and judge it for being "imba" don't realize that you can carry with anyone, it just more or less depends on how skilled you are as a player. Of course, there will always be "easier" heroes, but they're also easily countered.

 

[Direfury]

That there was what I was getting at. You can carry your team with any character, just add Hidden Powers augmented by areas, teammates or items. For example, let's say you have a Pyromaniac hero using a flamethrower and other fire-based abilities. Let's say you use an item like "sticky liquor" to blind the player controlling the victim, then attack them while they have the Sticky Liquor buff, using your base attack or a fire-based ability. That causes an AOE explosion.

Or a Druid enters into a Forest area, and all of his abilities become far more powerful, but require ALOT more mana.

And again, a Mortar Team combo, using that Pyromaniac and a Scout/farseer-like partner. While close to one another, the Scout/Seer'd get True Sight, while the Pyro'd get a range bonus.... until they move too far apart.


Keep in mind, those are simply examples.

 

[busterkomo]

That there was what I was getting at. You can carry your team with any character

DotA doesn't have any characters. They're heroes.

 

[Hemske]

I think achieving that kind of balance is what takes any sub-par game into a a great game. A lot of people who play DotA and judge it for being "imba" don't realize that you can carry with anyone, it just more or less depends on how skilled you are as a player. Of course, there will always be "easier" heroes, but they're also easily countered.

Actually, I will have to disagree with you there, even though you can carry with many heroes public, but not in all cases. For instance, (I take it as you play or have played some dota in your time) a fully builded mortred will rape a fully builded carry techies/ezalor/dark seer/etc. any day a week.

 

[Direfury]

DotA doesn't have any characters. They're heroes.

Same thing.

 

[Jaret]

Same thing.

Jus' like that.

 

[Nudl9]

And remember kids the more PSR you have the bigger your penis is.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

^ Don't use dirty words pls.
I feel indifferent to dota. Must have made over 100 games throughout the years whereas im not dotaer. Focus on balance and smart combination of skills that are good combos not only for the hero but for a team of heros.

 

[Raven0]

And remember kids the more PSR you have the bigger your penis is.

Please dont' flame

a fully builded mortred will rape a fully builded carry techies/ezalor/dark seer/etc. any day a week.

I agree. Alot of heroes in DOTA have specific Anti-heroes that they will never be good agaisnt solo. Techies will never be able to survive a lycanthrope assault.

 

[-Grendel]

its all about tactics and cooperation

 

[Direfury]

See, that's how it's done.

Take the heaviest hitting character, fully levelled with endgame gear, and a shit character who, as I said before, is augmented by certain abilities. Each lesser hero'd have some method for dealing with said super-character, like speed enough to dodge out of the way of an attack.

Be sure to keep those user-friendly endgame types beginner-only.

 

[Azurot]

One of the only reasons I still play dota after three years, is the sheer simplistic nature of the game. It's incredibly well-balanced and there really is little to complain about. However, this doesn't work with all AoS maps, so if you're wanting to make one, I suggest keeping it simple, but add small intricacies to it that enhance the gameplay.

Such intricacies as, for example, Aghamin's scepter in Dota as it brings certain heroes that could benefit from it an incredible boost to both stats and their ultimate. This, of course, makes for a really great aspect to the game that can add immense diversity to the overall gameplay.
As for cons, I think Dota could do a bit better in creating a more enhanced, non wc3, gameplay to it. Just anything that would make you feel like you were playing something even slightly different then the game you're playing.

That's just my two cents.


And for what Vermillion is talking about, it seems completely undoable and WAYYY too complicated to ever see use in any type of PvP game. As with dota, certain heroes shine early-mid game, others in mid-late game, it's just how it's done and the "weak" late game heroes just have to deal with it and let their carries win the game for them.

 

[Direfury]

Most of what I'm talking about is hard to accomplish in anything BUT any type of map with one of each type of said character.

 

[-Kobas-]

-Some hero combinations has absolutely no chance against some heroes. Bet this is more or less unavoidable though. For instance (Don't know if you are playing Dota yourself) Clinkz stand absolutely no chance in hell against Enchantress.

That is the point after all!

I play dota constantly and I am really good, but when I play it without my friends I lose each 2nd game!

1 word -> TEAMPLAY

I play all pick mode with my friends and we pick heroes at start (first 20 sec so we can kill rosh) or after their pick if we play rmk for example and they know for rosh ^^

We win 90% of games only because we have better hero combination! Just forget about item builds, who the fu need that, only beginners, so point is that you need to feel game and upgrade your hero in way to easy counter enemy heroes!

I for example like to make vladimir for Furion (melee vampiric aura for range hero -.-), but look at his spells and your teammates, you always teleport to battle and bring large number of auras with you (vlad, mech and assault) as well as small army!
Your teammates can easily forge different and useful items! (Why should ursa, furion and magina have vlad at same time -.-, furion can come share aura, capture target hero and earn exp easy)

Now that is only small example how teamplay can own game!

And that's it, whole game is about synergy, finding best combination to crush enemies!

a fully builded mortred will rape a fully builded carry techies/ezalor/dark seer/etc. any day a week.

Yes because that is that hero purpose, but it can as well be killed by large number of heroes as well.
Each hero can own few others and get pawned by even larger number!

I will say this once again, Dota is created for 10 players, don't bother me with single hero vs single hero examples!

Still really poor things are hootkeys!
You can't cast large number of spells easy with some heroes...

 

[Direfury]

All the ability hotkeys you need.

[ Z X C V B N ]

 

[ChoovakPetri83]

I think DOTA is very good, used for increasing people's gaming experience, DOTA is a king of AOS. Do you know it? I know, what some company will make a game called DOTA 2. But I forgot which company.

@Vermillion Edict
You have a nice avatar d:

 

[tagg1080]

DOTA is awesome.

People that don't like it, I have found have never actually given good reasons other than "cuz".


The community is HORRIBLE, but the game is awesome!

The heroes are fairly diverse, the items are nice and different and can be built in SO many ways.

Once you get past a short skill level bump, learning how to control lanes, watch the map, item/build your hero, denying, and last hits; there is a HUGE amount of improvement that separates random people from pros.


Oh, and the game has HUGE worldwide tournies, obviously can't be that imbalanced, lolz

 

[Hemske]

Yes because that is that hero purpose, but it can as well be killed by large number of heroes as well.
Each hero can own few others and get pawned by even larger number!

I will say this once again, Dota is created for 10 players, don't bother me with single hero vs single hero examples!

With absolutely no intention of sounding aggresive:
That was just a comment to argument towards what En_fuego stated.
If you had read my comments you would have seen I've clearly stated just what you told me right now.

And yes, the teamplay and synergy in Dota, is the most valuable and the thing that makes it the most fun.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

+Huge increment of awareness of how you can become fragile in second
+Massive increments of team playing skill
+Brain-works. Stimulates your brain about new tactics and combination all day long
+,,Once you pop, you can't stop"

-Incredibly imbalanced everything
-Amusingly new user hostile
-DotA replaced ALL our maps. No hope for us to break through
-I got dumped by my bf because of DotA
-I'm quite good at it
-It demotivates me from crafting and working on my own project, but I quickly delete that fact
-Ice stole from EVERYWHERE, EVERYTHING
-Hotkeys from which you will spread all over the keyboard (R U N D) and play like a person with mental issues
-.......

Well, I guess that I don't want to repeat what other users said (didn't wanted to read comments, in a hurry to finish something 'bout my map) so I guess that's it.

 

[-Grendel]

Clinkz stand absolutely no chance in hell against Enchantress.

not always really. if clinkz(strafe, burning arrows+MKB) had a better item build than enchantress, enchant won't last long even if she uses her heal skill

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Well, that's the fact. All heroes can beat the crap out of their worst enemies - just if you know to play them very good.
Like me. I <3 Rylai, and I beaten up almost every hero that exists in DotA.
It all rallies on your skills.

 

[-Grendel]

yeah i and i can beat the crap out of centaur with my nerubian weaver, that i'll surely piss him off because he can't even catch me with his hoof stomp because of my shukuchi

 

[Direfury]

So... if Ice stole from everywhere, I'd like to be shown proof that one of my models have been implimented or considered for use.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

I was not meaning of stealing resources. He stole the idea, and some things from other maps and games. And he crafted an imbalanced map that put our maps out of their place. Pathetic.

 

[Direfury]

This calls for a collective "You bastard!"

 

[En_Fuego]

Ice hasn't done anything wrong, save dis-crediting HappyTauren's work. Don't call the game imbalanced just because you suck at it. Seriously, that's the most pathetic thing ever. You don't hear pros complaining about imbalance. Know why? Because they know how to play.

Play it without -em if you want to play when it actually requires skill to win and not just sitting in your base and getting gold from doing nothing.

 

[Raven0]

Well he is notorious for using models, textures, and sfx in DOTA and not giving proper credits for them. Alot of modelers and 2d-artists hate him for that.

As far as stealing ideas go, yes I guess that's true. However, every AoS created uses a variety of ideas from prior AoS-style mods. So technically you could say they are all 'stealing' ideas. The only truly original AoS was AoS.

 

[AL0NE]

I guess the main problem is DotA isn't a stand-alone game like other similar DotA games, eg. Heroes of Newerth, Leugue of Legends. but no worries, coz next year DotA 2 is gonna boom the world! peace.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Ice hasn't done anything wrong, save dis-crediting HappyTauren's work. Don't call the game imbalanced just because you suck at it. Seriously, that's the most pathetic thing ever. You don't hear pros complaining about imbalance. Know why? Because they know how to play

I sense offensive comment in here. Nevermind, I'm off this topic to avoid possible fights and negative energy. Kinda in PMS, if you know what I mean.

 

[Adiktuz]

I actually like the gameplay of DotA...

but somehow as I was playing it for a long time now, I realized that there is a lack of freedom of choices for item builds (at least if you want to win)...

about hero imbalances (on the given example of clinkz vs Enchantress), well yeah, but that is exactly why this game is based on teamplay... (not to say that you can actually beat enchantress using clinkz if you have the right strategy, assuming that your skill level are the same)

though because of that, another imbalance problem takes place (hero-team imbalances), though this one can easily be fixed by players themselves, you just need the skills...
(which is why a lot of people say that the game is imbalanced, because they lack skills)

One of the main problems that lead to those stated above?
Noobs fighting pros

 

[Skycraft]

DotA isn't crap, it's a very good and well-constructed map that managed to get a lot of attention.
He needs to add more credits to respected creators, and maybe a bit more variety to the 'Roshan' character..

Besides, along the lines of 'stealing ideas' that is not what he has done.
He has merely taken the ideas others used, and melding them into something beautiful like everyone else does. But he still needs more credits.

That is all I will say.

 

[-Grendel]

Roshan had a santa hat once, i wonder if he will again?

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Quite sure he will
It really injects the spirit of Christmas

 

[-Kobas-]

All the ability hotkeys you need.

[ Z X C V B N ]

So wrong, your fingers are 2 far from F1, F2... and TAB BUTTON!

Q W E R will do job really nice!

 

[MortAr]

synergy synergy synergy
it's all about synergy. (items also)
oh and a little micro
I will leave this thread and see how it develops, and I hope no Dota drama will come out of it.

Drama at THW is everywhere.

 

[Adiktuz]

[ Z X C V B N ] only?

there are spells with G,W,R,T etc...

 

[Direfury]

Quite sure he will
It really injects the spirit of Christmas

Bah humbug.

 

[MortAr]

You can use programs to change your hotkeys to whatever you want.