Copy, duplicate or add new units?

[Kabel]

I wanna try to make a custom melee map.

I will mostly do minor changes to the units, like changing their HP or attack damage etc.

In that regard, what "method" is the most effective one to use?

Copy, duplicate or create new units?

In all cases it seems like I must add models, actors etc from scratch to the new unit. Would be nice to save that effort if there is a more effective method to use for making small changes to the units?

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Why not modify the existing things? If you don't want to modify the existing things and make new ones, then you may copy the Unit data, Weapon data, rest like models, movers, sounds, effects, other actors could be left the same. Cause Life stats are in the Unit 'Stats' tab. Weapon is where you choose the damage, type of weapon - melee, range, taget unit or target point etc (Weapon + Effect data for that weapon)

 

[Kabel]

Why not modify the existing things? If you don't want to modify the existing things and make new ones, then you may copy the Unit data, Weapon data, rest like models, movers, sounds, effects, other actors could be left the same. Cause Life stats are in the Unit 'Stats' tab. Weapon is where you choose the damage, type of weapon - melee, range, taget unit or target point etc (Weapon + Effect data for that weapon)

People tell me that it is really bad to modify the existing units. It causes bugs and errors.

I now make my custom marine. (I follow a tutorial.)

I Add unit, base it on marine.
I go to actors, make a new actor for the marine and I edit the token, art etc.
I test the unit ingame and it works fine. Moves and attacks and everything.

I create a custom weapon named "Marine attack."
I want to change the damage for the attack so I create a new effect called "Marine attack damage"
I create a new model for the attack.
I create a new button, which is exactly like the original, I add it to the barracks train ability, which is also new.
Etc..

Everything is just the same. I just create what already exists, except for the damage I change.
But there is so much that needs to be edited!

Is there any of these steps I can skip, to make things a bit easier? Feels like for every change I make two other changes must be made also..

It would be horrible if I created a custom melee map just to find out that everything is screwed because I did not do it right from the beginning..

 

[Dr Super Good]

People tell me that it is really bad to modify the existing units. It causes bugs and errors.

Only if you modify them incorrectly. It is important to make sure your dependiencies are working though as sometimes SC2E can mess up loading dependiencies (causing top tier dependiencies to not load).

Always Copy or add new. Duplicating performs mechanics to change references which can result in hard to resolve bugs and gives you a false sense of security that the data you make should work.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I had a case with Vulture Replenish Mines Effect, I renamed it, idk what I did, wanted to reset it to Parent, it didn't want to rest properly, the name remained changed etc. I think I could even delete it and it was not a copy, sometimes things can mess up. But for changing some Unit stats usually it doesnt cause problems.

When you use actors, you see actors have a lot of actor events. These events are for what the unit does when loaded, when under graviton beam, when Loaded Unloaded and so on. If you start an actor from scratch you may not get all the effects that the unit is supposed to get.

That's why imo duplicating data closest to the one you use is better, e.g if you make an Air unit, duplicate an existing air unit's data, if ground - ground ,etc.

 

[Kabel]

If I search for marine and changes it´s life value (for example) the unit becomes a green copy in the list underneath the original marine.

Is that enought to make it a copy, or do I need to select each unit and choose Copy + paste?

 

[Dr Super Good]

That is a modification layer to a specifc catalog entry. The top layer is always the map's declared data. Above that is data from map dependiencies loaded from top to bottom (so the bottom mod declares data just below map declared data). The data editor can be made to list all layers for a specific entry so you can see where certain fields get their values from. It is impossible to get a non-top layer during gameplay, also all multi layer data enteries will report a parent of their own type.

 

[Kabel]

That is a modification layer to a specifc catalog entry. The top layer is always the map's declared data. Above that is data from map dependiencies loaded from top to bottom (so the bottom mod declares data just below map declared data). The data editor can be made to list all layers for a specific entry so you can see where certain fields get their values from. It is impossible to get a non-top layer during gameplay, also all multi layer data enteries will report a parent of their own type.

Hm. I think I understand. But what does this mean practically?

I am looking for a method to use when I create my custom melee map. It shall require as little extra work as possible, but at the same time be effective and NOT screw the game up.

 

[Dr Super Good]

If you are not going to use the melee units with default stats, then modify them directly as a map declared layer. If you want to have 2 different modified versions of a default melee unit, then you will need to copy it and declare it as a new type.