Duplication oddities and inconsistencies? (Duplicate Settings?)

[Newuser]

Are there any configurable settings related to duplicating things in the data editor?

For some reason there are a few inconsistencies I've encountered with duplication (does anyone else have these problems?):

1. Inconsistency with what the duplicated object is "Based On:" - Sometimes when I duplicate things, the "Based On:" setting is based on the target of the duplication instead of "Default Unit".

(To find out what a unit or object is based on, right click on the unit, then click "Modify Object" to see the values).

For example - I duplicate a "Marine". If right click "Marine" and click "Modify Object", I see that "Marine" is "Based On" - "Marine".

If I duplicate the "Marine", normally the duplicated marine will show "Based on: Default Settings (Unit)"; however sometimes it the new duplicated object will be based on the old unit.

In this example, the "oddity" would be the duplicated object being "Based On: Marine". Now the problem with that is whenever I edit "Marine", all the objects being based on "Marine" will change too. I do not want that, which is why I want it to be based on "Default Settings" instead.

How do I make it so duplicating always results in the duplicated object being "Based On: Default Settings"?

For some reason (on my map), the duplicated object always results in the duplicated object being "Based on:" the duplicated object instead of "Default Settings".

If I start a new map with the default settings and hit duplicate, it always results in the "Based On:" field being set to "Default". So it seems my map for some reason has the duplication settings changed?

I was going to add more examples but it seems this issue is the main cause of all my duplication problems.

Any help as to how to change "Duplicate" settings will be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Muhahahahaaa]

do not duplicate things!!!
some skills etc are bugged if you do so. it's easier to "build" w/e new than finding all the connections that are missing with duplicating. some values are missing etc. copy things and do it manuelly.
at least this is my exp. with the editor....

 

[Newuser]

I have been mostly duplicating things and they have been fine (everything worked as intended) until... recently when all (new) duplicated things started being based on the object duplicated instead of "Default Settings".

The main advantage of duplication is they have been a huge time saver.

I was wondering if the issue I have is due to some editor setting or something because it only occurs on the map I am currently working on (it doesn't happen on a different map).

 

[Newuser]

Ok I figured out the problem; it turns out that it was always like this (I think?).

It only happens if you modified the unit from the original. Also it only happens on units, buttons, and possibly effects and other data objects. It does not happen on actors (?)

For example, if you duplicate an unedited Marine, the duplicate Marine will be "Based On: Default Settings".

[Again "Based On: Default Settings" means that it won't use unedited values from whatever it's based on (which is good if you do not want values being overwritten by Blizzard's SC2 updates, if you use "Multi" dependency that is).]

However if you edited the marine, then duplicate the edited marine, the duplicated object will have all its unedited values "Based On:" the marine (which is described above).

I did not notice this at first because I duplicated unedited units when I started working on my map, and thus everything was "Based On: Default Settings".

Anyway to solve this issue - you'll have to duplicate a unit, then set "Based On:" to "Default Settings", then click "Copy Values" from whatever you're duplicating it. Sometimes you may not want to duplicate a unit at all, it may cause bugs (as "Muhahahahaaa" said).

There's a problem for example with the beam actors (most noticeable, the Medic/Medivac's "Heal Beam"[both of them]). it's described here on SC2Mapster - basically the beam model needs to be created (or placed in the .xml file) "after" the launch and impact sites.

One really odd problem that I've been having is sometimes the effects (whether duplicated or using "copy from") cause the original object to change in file name and site name.

For example there was an odd bug I had when I duplicated an edited "Lurker"(and its "morphing" abilities), it caused the original Lurker to change in name whenever I edited the duplicated version (it's an odd bug).

In this case, you may have to copy the values manually without using "copy from" or "duplicate". Seems like another odd editor bug.

 

[Rispetto]

tl;dr

I already know what's happening.
Nothing is wrong with duplicating.
When you duplicate an object you need to take into account that you can select which items to duplicate.
For example if you choose to duplicate an actor, it will create a new actor and set the duplicated unit's main actor to the new one.
However if you simply choose not to duplicate an actor, it will use it's old one.
When you start getting into things such as actors and models and you don't know what you're doing, you will mess something up, and you will as a result hate life.

 

[Newuser]

tl;dr

I already know what's happening.
Nothing is wrong with duplicating.
When you duplicate an object you need to take into account that you can select which items to duplicate.
For example if you choose to duplicate an actor, it will create a new actor and set the duplicated unit's main actor to the new one.
However if you simply choose not to duplicate an actor, it will use it's old one.
When you start getting into things such as actors and models and you don't know what you're doing, you will mess something up, and you will as a result hate life.

1. Thanks though I do know about that (I duplicate a lot, it saves a lot of time).

2. My original problem had to do with the inconsistency of why the "Based On:" fields were different (see my previous post for info; basically the inconsistency with "Based On:" affects unit types but not actors, effects, abilities for example).

3. Also there are some problems with duplicating (see my previous post relating to the Medic's beam).

Also there seems to be an issue with duplication which sometimes causes the "original"'s value to change:

Example 1 - For the lurker - If you duplicate a Lurker(or any unit with burrow) and check = the burrowed lurker unit (it doesn't matter if you do or do not check the burrowed ability as well, problem still occurs):

The original lurker will have its name changed. Now this itself isn't that big of a bug but I do not think it's intended (it only affects units with two morphing abilities such units with burrow/unburrow).

Example 2 - Similar to the above but can actual cause annoyance if you do not catch it - It can(I don't remember which effect I duplicated that caused it, but it did happen) happen on "linking" effects (AKA ones with something like Effect Set > Search > Damage, or ones with apply and remove behavior). Somethings the original will change values.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Its cause duplication is not very safe with some of the linking blizzard uses. You just have to manually check all the links between data for every object you make.

Annoying yes, but it is well worth it as you can do so much more compared to WC3.

 

[Rispetto]

What DSG means (I think) is either:

1) Blizzard intended it to be a complicated pain-in-the-ass because it brings with it a lot of features they can use, and you can use as well if you master the duplication system

2) It's a problem Blizzard did not intend and will probably be fixed in the next 3 to 785 years.

 

[Dr Super Good]

No, the duplication system works perfectly (except for a minor bug in the editor with updating references and inhertance).

The problem is that duplication is not very useful for this sort of data system. As it often uses default names for some of the links, they incorrectly change when you duplicate an object to their duplicated name (as the paths use the same name as the owning piece of data by default). This can be described as an integrity problem that can occur when duplicating some elements.

 

[gT.ReD]

Also there seems to be an issue with duplication which sometimes causes the "original"'s value to change:

Example 1 - For the lurker - If you duplicate a Lurker(or any unit with burrow) and check = the burrowed lurker unit (it doesn't matter if you do or do not check the burrowed ability as well, problem still occurs):

The original lurker will have its name changed. Now this itself isn't that big of a bug but I do not think it's intended (it only affects units with two morphing abilities such units with burrow/unburrow).

Example 2 - Similar to the above but can actual cause annoyance if you do not catch it - It can(I don't remember which effect I duplicated that caused it, but it did happen) happen on "linking" effects (AKA ones with something like Effect Set > Search > Damage, or ones with apply and remove behavior). Somethings the original will change values.

this bug was covered in my unit tutorial, in the bottom "Things to Be Aware of" section.

 

[Newuser]

Bump - Okay this is odd and there seems to be some inconsistencies. When "Duplicating" a "modified" (original values changed), the new duplicated unit will have it's "Modify Unit > 'Based On:'" set to the old unit.

However for some odd reason, it didn't happen when I duplicated a modified Firebat or "most" campaign units (I tested Science Vessel and Medic).

Just wanted to point it out. Has anyone had trouble with duplicating units? Does the "Based On:" (when duplicating units) set to "Default Settings" or something else when you duplicate a "modified"(values changed) unit?