China's New invasion

[Zeron]

I recently read a novel called "The good Earth" by Pearl S. Buck. Beautifully written, and amazingly insightful into 19th century china. Well it got me interested in Chinese history all the way from the Orignal Xia dynasty to The great Han and then to communist china.

Well the fact is china has always been a important part of the world through any historical time period. The civilization of china is the ONLY civilization that hs been prominent and important from the beggining of civilization. Arguably it might not always have been the most important but nevertheless its influence on the world has been felt by its people and its neighbors since the beginning and before of documented time. The few time china has failed to bring in its vassals(such as the independent Korea, Vietnam, and Japan) it has used the ideas of the victors of any of their endevors to propel it forward in the future.

Expanding in this thought: When imperial china(meaning the dynasties) were stopped and replaced with a new communist government the chinese opened their ways to change. They adopted what the victor had to propell them forward. Now china is capitalizing on their 50 year tactic witch is apparent in their economic and social growth. For example: china has surpassed the super economic power of japan and is right at the faltering heals of the USA. Agreeably America isnt in its most "athletic" state to handle such a prominent figure in history to try and take the stage in the political or economic world, but the same can be said for most rest of the world. Whos countries are in political, social, and/or economic upheaval.

If history is to be repeated and china does what china always will do, in their xenophobia, and throw out the foreign ideas to take back up their Confucius government and yes dynasty based system, after they take the world stage by storm yet again. they will prove correct again that in every time era to date china's importance cannot be overlooked , and perhaps their ideas of Chinese superiority will take hold. bear in mind they don't think RACIALLY their superior they believe that socially their thoughts and ideas are, and one can become Chinese if they take up all of the Chinese customs and ideas.
However my question to use is how will the economic superpowers of the world like America and japan or the politically powerful like Spain, France, and England, react to china's re-emergence as the world power? Bare in mind that the Chinese hasn't been near the height of its worldly influence in the past since before most of the dominant countries at this time have even been established. America has never even seen the Chinese as a significant power till recently and the Chinese were in a social end economic decline around the firm establishment of most European powers till recently as well.

How will the world as a whole react if (after reaching power) china resorts back to the dominating and social oppressive attitudes of its past and begin a new world invasion of Chinese ideas, customs, government, and military control, which if history has any influence on the matter, it will. What then might be a reaction of the world community? Not War. No. Not with the passive attitudes the world has now. War wont be an issue... or perhaps, its not certain...

 

[En_Fuego]

They won't. If they do, we'll nuke them.

 

[Icedrake]

World War 3 is what's going to happen if China starts getting any smart ideas. It would end very quick with a few nukes from a few countries at China.

 

[Chizume]

Greetings,

I'm gonna lay out my thoughts on the matter.

China won't wage war against any western countries. If any group of people want war it would be either islamic martyr groups waging war against infidels, or north korea. Although neither are very likely.

China is the fastest growing country in pretty much all categories. But, it's not the only growing country. India is also growing incredibly fast, especially in population.

The international market is in present time a very important factor for all countries and I doubt any country would want to be boycotted. Economy is more important than moral ideals in modern time.

Yours,
Chizume

 

[Zeron]

So your saying that the rest of the world would naive enough to start throwing nukes around? i believe we moved on out of that stage. All nuked would do would cause a glamorous reason for all the terrorist groups and enemys of anyone to launch there own. causing a nuclear holocaust which would be the end of all structured humanity... i shutter at the thought. And china has their own nukes and their own nuclear defence system as well. We AREN'T the only country able to shoot down cold war era nuclear missiles you know.


sorry chizume didnt see your post earlier. And i didnt mean and actual invasion i ment an invasion of chinese ideals and customs. That alone i belief would trigger western countries to go on a physical offensive thus perpetuating a possible... interaction.

And yes most countries would focus more on gains and power in a economic part but chinas people have always been dominating at heart and dont think 50 years changed a 4000 years fashion so considerably.

 

[En_Fuego]

So your saying that the rest of the world would naive enough to start throwing nukes around? i believe we moved on out of that stage. All nuked would do would cause a glamorous reason for all the terrorist groups and enemys of anyone to launch there own. causing a nuclear holocaust which would be the end of all structured humanity... i shutter at the thought. And china has their own nukes and their own nuclear defence system as well. We AREN'T the only country able to shoot down cold war era nuclear missiles you know.


sorry chizume didnt see your post earlier. And i didnt mean and actual invasion i ment an invasion of chinese ideals and customs. That alone i belief would trigger western countries to go on a physical offensive thus perpetuating a possible... interaction.

And yes most countries would focus more on gains and power in a economic part but chinas people have always been dominating at heart and dont think 50 years changed a 4000 years fashion so considerably.

You see, that's your problem...no one uses Cold War era nukes. Countries like the US and GB have already developed "pocket bombs" which, when detonated, pack the same explosive punch as the bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (which weren't even that strong).

Secondly...terrorism has been around since the beginning of time, but there has never been a terrorist group that detonated a nuclear bomb. Conversely, an Islamic radical group stole a weapon from Israel in 1996 and planted it in Russia, but ended up being too afraid to use it.

Also, we have Mecca and Medina occupied. There's no way in hell any Islamic terrorists would try to use a nuke against anyone unless they absolutely had to.

 

[Ramza]

They won't. If they do, we'll nuke them.

And ''we'' is... Russia?

Or... Korea perhaps?

Well, it doesn't matter. You don't really think nuking will solve anything, right?

 

[En_Fuego]

And ''we'' is... Russia?

Or... Korea perhaps?

Well, it doesn't matter. You don't really think nuking will solve anything, right?

Nuclear deterrence has actually reduced conflict in the past 60 years.

For example, during desert storm, chemical warfare was avoided because of the threat of nuclear weapons.

Nukes are a big threat. Do you think any country in the world wants to get hit with a nuke? No.

 

[Zeron]

@Ramza nuking would do nothing but destroy us in a whole yes.

@En Fuego and america and russia both had thousands of un-needed cold war wepons left after the end of the cold war. Witch, geuss what, was all sold to nations around the world, including china. And nagasaki and hiroshima bombs were already 1000 times weaker then the hydrogen bombs produced for the cold war. (Hiroshima was A bombs). China is just as advanced now, if not more, as america, russia, or any other nation. so im sure they would have the same types of wepons with the same punch or better.

@ above post. i believe that now chemical and Viral weponry is a bigger threat to any nation as a whole and defiantly to the whole world.

 

[En_Fuego]

@Ramza nuking would do nothing but destroy us in a whole yes.

@En Fuego and america and russia both had thousands of un-needed cold war wepons left after the end of the cold war. Witch, geuss what, was all sold to nations around the world, including china. And nagasaki and hiroshima bombs were already 1000 times weaker then the hydrogen bombs produced for the cold war. (Hiroshima was A bombs). China is just as advanced now, if not more, as america, russia, or any other nation. so im sure they would have the same types of wepons with the same punch or better.

what does that have to do with the United States using them? It's not like it takes 500000 bombs to stop China...if you use one nuke, they'll be deterred. If not, then use more and let them die.

Also, your facts about them being sold are wrong, they actually trashed them (nuclear weapons die off over time).

H-Bombs are nuclear bombs, as they are the product of a nuclear reaction.

The weapons possessed by the US and the USSR weren't a waste...at the time it was thought that all would be needed. As demonstrated during WW2, 2 bombs weren't enough to destroy even 1/10 of Japan, which is like 1/50 of the USSR.

Not to mention there were still lingering threats of other countries as well.

 

[Zeron]

H-Bombs are nuclear bombs, as they are the product of a nuclear reaction.

yes i know but that TYPE of nuclear bomb is 1000 times stronger then the type of bombs dropped on japan.

Also, your facts about them being sold are wrong, they actually trashed them (nuclear weapons die off over time).

yes they do die off. The thing that limits there age substantially is the trigger whitch has a life of up to 25 years, easily replaceable. and even though there hasnt been any official documentation of selling of bombs doesnt mean they occur. just because the government says thy might of destroyed any surplus bombs doesnt mean you should believe every thing they say. Plus only one bomb leak does it take to give the world the technology to create one. China nevertheless of how they got the technology (probally us since we also share are space travel technology) have the capabilities to create there own and to deter others from nuclear assaulting them.

 

[En_Fuego]

yes i know but that TYPE of nuclear bomb is 1000 times stronger then the type of bombs dropped on japan.



yes they do die off. The thing that limits there age substantially is the trigger whitch has a life of up to 25 years, easily replaceable. and even though there hasnt been any official documentation of selling of bombs doesnt mean they occur. just because the government says thy might of destroyed any surplus bombs doesnt mean you should believe every thing they say. Plus only one bomb leak does it take to give the world the technology to create one. China nevertheless of how they got the technology (probally us since we also share are space travel technology) have the capabilities to create there own and to deter others from nuclear assaulting them.

There's info on the internet of how to build nuclear weapons...it's not exactly a secretive science.

Once again, what are you trying to say?

 

[Ramza]

Nuclear deterrence has actually reduced conflict in the past 60 years.

For example, during desert storm, chemical warfare was avoided because of the threat of nuclear weapons.

Nukes are a big threat. Do you think any country in the world wants to get hit with a nuke? No.

I do know that. But you must've misread my post. I was wondering if you think actually nuking a country would solve anything?
I don't think it would.

 

[Mr. Bob]

Why the fuck would they do that? China's goal will always be money. Always. And there is not money in any of that. Where they are right now is exactly where they want to be.

 

[En_Fuego]

I do know that. But you must've misread my post. I was wondering if you think actually nuking a country would solve anything?
I don't think it would.

When it comes down to utilitarianism, a country should definitely prepared to use a nuclear weapon.

The fact that they have them implies the intent of using them.

 

[Zeron]

about the strength?
Well the small bombs used on japan were to say only to partially decimate(not everyone died) within 50 miles. these newer bombs(probally even better now) would have the power to totally decimate any living thing by explosion or radiation for hundreds of miles.

About chinas abilities?
China is just as technologicly advanced as us. We have the abilities to shut down any(most likely most) nuclear bomb shot at us via satelitte from anywere except maybe cuba to miami. so china would have the same i suggest.


so finally dont think that chinas deep breed need for expansion and conversion will be stopped by nuclear threat. they will fight to the death. for remeber back with the mongol invasions and the Nam Viet wars were being raged their attacks of peasents on horses were just as feared then as nuclear and viral attacks are now.

Why the fuck would they do that? China's goal will always be money. Always. And there is not money in any of that. Where they are right now is exactly where they want to be.

chinas goal has actually always been(historically i mean ALWAYS) been power and dominance over nearby states and power over mass of territory. money is just a way to express the power they have over every other country, financially they might already be undefeatable.

 

[Coolty44]

Eh, its not like China already controls the US economy or anything, allowing them to easily acquire an extra ally in dominating the world.

If anything, I could see them being put down fast by many other countries. I think if we've learned anything since WW2 its that warnings never work.

 

[En_Fuego]

about the strength?
Well the small bombs used on japan were to say only to partially decimate(not everyone died) within 50 miles. these newer bombs(probally even better now) would have the power to totally decimate any living thing by explosion or radiation for hundreds of miles.

who. is. questioning. this?

About chinas abilities?
China is just as technologicly advanced as us. We have the abilities to shut down any(most likely most) nuclear bomb shot at us via satelitte from anywere except maybe cuba to miami. so china would have the same i suggest.

who. is. questioning. this?

so finally dont think that chinas deep breed need for expansion and conversion will be stopped by nuclear threat. they will fight to the death. for remeber back with the mongol invasions and the Nam Viet wars were being raged their attacks of peasents on horses were just as feared then as nuclear and viral attacks are now.

I can't believe you're using the mongols as an example...completely different era of living. Are Chinese people of today at ALL like the Mongols?

Nuclear threat is basically the threat of all threats...nuclear weapons will kill anything.

 

[Zeron]

the mongol invasion of chinas yes. thatb then was the ultimate threat. they had horses china didnt. That then was the worst threat imaginable and still didnt cause china to reconsider


and btw asked me what my point was so i defended my two points... restated them and all

 

[En_Fuego]

the mongol invasion of chinas yes. thatb then was the ultimate threat. they had horses china didnt. That then was the worst threat imaginable and still didnt cause china to reconsider

this was ~900 years ago...how can you compare modern day China to then? Like you stated in your first post, their entire political system has been re-vamped since then.

and btw asked me what my point was so i defended my two points... restated them and all

your points didn't really contribute to anything...they're just widely accepted facts that I'm not arguing.

 

[Adiktuz]

There's a saying:

"God made the world, everything else was made in China..."

I dont think China will aim for something like waging war with the other countries of the world. Why? because they would lose their entire Market if they did...

And about nukes, NoKor will be the one that is most likely to use them if ever, they're military power is constantly increasing (they even developed anti-Carrier ship missiles)... but anyway the fact is that nukes are still there, no country really disarmed nukes...

 

[Fussiler1]

World War 3 is what's going to happen if China starts getting any smart ideas. It would end very quick with a few nukes from a few countries at China.

Errr..

I think you're too late.

They've already gotten smart ideas.

 

[GhostThruster]

If we're all scared of China, than why aren't we scared of America? They have just as much power, and although less people, far more influence?

China's not gonna do anything. Nuking would be last resort. Bombing half a billion people is even worse than enforcing Chinese traditions everywhere.

 

[Chizume]

...I didn't mean an actual invasion i meant an invasion of Chinese ideals and customs. That alone i believe would trigger western countries to go on a physical offensive thus perpetuating a possible... interaction.

What is USA doing today and have done the last decades? Spreading their ideals and customs. If we look at it historically; Italy spread their cultural ideals when they were an economic superpower, the Mongols their customs as a military power, and so on. Whoever has the power has the influence. That should mean that, yes when China gain even more power than they already have - we will be more and more influenced by Chinese customs. That is a simple fact

Nuclear deterrence has actually reduced conflict in the past 60 years.

For example, during desert storm, chemical warfare was avoided because of the threat of nuclear weapons.

Nukes are a big threat. Do you think any country in the world wants to get hit with a nuke? No.

End of nuclear discussion.


Also, I don't get why people are so against North Korea. In my honest opinion it simply shows how USA has succeeded in influencing the world. North Korea has been the enemy of the US for some time, but that doesn't make North Korean ideals wrong now does it? I think it is strong for a lone country to stick to their ideals no matter what all other says. And yes, I do know they do some questionable things so there is no need to tell me this and that about North Korea. If we want to change North Korea, or Cuba, to more western country customs we are not much better than terrorists, simply because our mission would be the same; convert.

A State of Mind - A short, yet highly recommended documentary for the interested.

Yours,
Chizume

 

[Coolty44]

If we're all scared of China, than why aren't we scared of America? They have just as much power, and although less people, far more influence?

China's not gonna do anything. Nuking would be last resort. Bombing half a billion people is even worse than enforcing Chinese traditions everywhere.

If there's still anything relatively close to a smart politician when this happens, many countries will probably look at what the US is doing to China right now. They own them billions of dollars to fund the war in Iraq, and if the US went to war the China, I think many people would be siding with them.

 

[En_Fuego]

Also, I don't get why people are so against North Korea. In my honest opinion it simply shows how USA has succeeded in influencing the world. North Korea has been the enemy of the US for some time, but that doesn't make North Korean ideals wrong now does it? I think it is strong for a lone country to stick to their ideals no matter what all other says. And yes, I do know they do some questionable things so there is no need to tell me this and that about North Korea. If we want to change North Korea, or Cuba, to more western country customs we are not much better than terrorists, simply because our mission would be the same; convert.

lol I see what you're trying to say here, but no...

North Korea is a highly oppressive totalitarian state. They still think that Kim Jong-il scored the game winning goal at the World Cup and that North Korea has won the World Cup like 39 years in a row.

edit: In other words, their government is more corrupt than the Taliban and Carzhai.

 

[mrzwach]

About chinas abilities?
China is just as technologicly advanced as us. We have the abilities to shut down any(most likely most) nuclear bomb shot at us via satelitte from anywere except maybe cuba to miami. so china would have the same i suggest.

Uhm no. You need to get your facts straight.

The US missile defense program is designed so that when a poor, technologically backwards 3rd world country gets their hands on a couple nuclear warheads we can not die.

However, if we were to launch a full scale nuclear attack on China, we would not be using a few missiles. Furthermore, we also are quite capable of preventing missiles from being shot down through the use of penetration aids, eg chaff, decoys, radar jamming, and so on.

If history is to be repeated and china does what china always will do, in their xenophobia, and throw out the foreign ideas to take back up their Confucius government and yes dynasty based system, after they take the world stage by storm yet again.

Oh, the irony. Fear of the unknown being afraid of the unknown.

Also, why would China revert to a dynasty based system? That's as stupid as claiming Great Britain is going to become a monarchy, because "history repeats itself." Also China has been generally moving towards a more free society, or at least in its economy.

chinas goal has actually always been(historically i mean ALWAYS) been power and dominance over nearby states and power over mass of territory.

Much like almost every other nation. I mean, US in the 19th century.

 

[Zeron]

Also, why would China revert to a dynasty based system? That's as stupid as claiming Great Britain is going to become a monarchy, because "history repeats itself." Also China has been generally moving towards a more free society, or at least in its economy.

also , lol, doesnt that bring up man interesting point. While the chinese economy is moving to a free based system their governement is still communist... their a hybrid national sytem as of right now thats never been experimented with before... i wonder how that turns out... does the communist idea just completley fall or does the free based economy get sucked back to a government controlling stile?

 

[En_Fuego]

Unless they somehow found a way to achieve utilitarianism through communism, then their government will undoubtedly fail some day.

 

[Zeron]

perhaps... since that is the most obvious outcome. but how many times in history has the things we expect or that by all reasoning should happen not.

 

[En_Fuego]

perhaps... since that is the most obvious outcome. but how many times in history has the things we expect or that by all reasoning should happen not.

"we" ?

 

[Zeron]

just in general anyone im not targeting a specific group. i mean anyone that has in sight during a historical period with a teeter totter action... you would expect it to go one way but find it to fall the other or another and another that u didnt even expect to be a possibility.

 

[En_Fuego]

just in general anyone im not targeting a specific group. i mean anyone that has in sight during a historical period with a teeter totter action... you would expect it to go one way but find it to fall the other or another and another that u didnt even expect to be a possibility.

There are plenty of people who have predicted the future. It's not as uncommon as you might think. For example, Ron Paul predicted a lot of what's happening in US economics in his books. People weren't exactly surprised that Ghengis Khan took over Mazaka instead of China, either.

 

[Chizume]

I believe Nostradamus is the most famous of real life seers. In short (if I remember correctly) he used stars and similar to foresee the future. He foresaw the fall of the twin towers, even on the actual date. He foresaw Hitler and his escapades, and many other great event. Personally I'm fascinated by the precision of his predictions. Although, I don't believe any magic can tell about the future and I more enjoy to poke holes on the myth using logic; and in these cases it's the point you have been trying to conduct Zeron; history repeats itself. Also, I found phrases from his work.

"In the year of the new century and nine months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror…
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city…

In the city of York there will be a great collapse,
two twin brothers torn apart by chaos
while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb
third big war will begin when the big city is burning"​

- Nostradamus​

 

[InfiniteSeven]

I believe Nostradamus is the most famous of real life seers. In short (if I remember correctly) he used stars and similar to foresee the future. He foresaw the fall of the twin towers, even on the actual date. He foresaw Hitler and his escapades, and many other great event. Personally I'm fascinated by the precision of his predictions. Although, I don't believe any magic can tell about the future and I more enjoy to poke holes on the myth using logic; and in these cases it's the point you have been trying to conduct Zeron; history repeats itself. Also, I found phrases from his work.

"In the year of the new century and nine months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror…
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city…

In the city of York there will be a great collapse,
two twin brothers torn apart by chaos
while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb
third big war will begin when the big city is burning"​

- Nostradamus​

That quatrain regarding Nostradamus' prediction of the September 11 attacks is a hoax. That passage doesn't even exist in his entire published work (EDIT: The prediction is made up of some texts and passages that were altered and put together after 9/11 and thus its completely false). And also, his supposed prediction of Hitler doesn't mention Hitler, it mentions Hister, which would be an ancient name for Lower Danube and more likely (since I think he did mention that Hister = Lower Danube in one of his passages, not quite sure

History repeats itself yes, but its still not something we can perfectly predict. Who knows, maybe China is planning something that the rest of the world can't handle, maybe China isn't. I'd think that while China is quite imposing, I don't think they're stupid enough to antagonize the rest of the world.

 

[En_Fuego]

I believe Nostradamus is the most famous of real life seers. In short (if I remember correctly) he used stars and similar to foresee the future. He foresaw the fall of the twin towers, even on the actual date. He foresaw Hitler and his escapades, and many other great event. Personally I'm fascinated by the precision of his predictions. Although, I don't believe any magic can tell about the future and I more enjoy to poke holes on the myth using logic; and in these cases it's the point you have been trying to conduct Zeron; history repeats itself. Also, I found phrases from his work.

"In the year of the new century and nine months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror…
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city…

In the city of York there will be a great collapse,
two twin brothers torn apart by chaos
while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb
third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
​

- Nostradamus
​

but that's not true at all.

 

[Chizume]

@ En_Fuego lol, quoting my whole post and saying nothing of it is true is just lame, and you are wrong.

Maybe I simply didn't conduct my point strong enough; I know Nostradamus supernatural predictions are fake. But his success is based upon the fact that history repeats itself. And also, humans want the supernatural to be true and thus in the mind of man, with slight overlooks and alterations true is what it becomes. We have a too good imagination.

My intention was to give Zeron and others who did not know of Nostradamus something interesting to investigate out of a logical and psychosocial point of view, thus relating to this thread. And whether Nostradamus is wrong or not is in my opinion irrelevant in this thread. I admit I got carried away presenting him.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours,
Chizume

 

[Boris_Spider]

Nuclear deterrence has actually reduced conflict in the past 60 years.

For example, during desert storm, chemical warfare was avoided because of the threat of nuclear weapons.

Nukes are a big threat. Do you think any country in the world wants to get hit with a nuke? No.

Not to the extent you make it out to be. It's more of a deterence against attacking countries with nukes and anything they're interested in. Africa consists of little but violence. Does anyone with power care? No.

Eh, its not like China already controls the US economy or anything, allowing them to easily acquire an extra ally in dominating the world.

If anything, I could see them being put down fast by many other countries. I think if we've learned anything since WW2 its that warnings never work.

China owns a significant amount of American debt and produce most of the goods americans use. I'm almost certain the same holds true for western europe.

In WW II, Japan was already trying to surrender, but with one condition: that their emperor wasn't harmed. The US wanted to use its new bombs, and with Germany and Italy defeated and the Russians advancing, they were running out of time. The point: there's no reason to have big bombs if you can't use them.

If there's still anything relatively close to a smart politician when this happens, many countries will probably look at what the US is doing to China right now. They own them billions of dollars to fund the war in Iraq, and if the US went to war the China, I think many people would be siding with them.

A smart politician is an oxymoron. The likelyhood of war isn't that high, since china makes nearly everything the 'developed' world uses.

Also, why would China revert to a dynasty based system? That's as stupid as claiming Great Britain is going to become a monarchy, because "history repeats itself." Also China has been generally moving towards a more free society, or at least in its economy.

The Chinese government will do whatever increases it's power/control.
It's only loosing its grip on its economy because of what happened to the USSR.

Unless they somehow found a way to achieve utilitarianism through communism, then their government will undoubtedly fail some day.

All governments fail. It's a matter of when, not if.

I believe Nostradamus is the most famous of real life seers. In short (if I remember correctly) he used stars and similar to foresee the future. He foresaw the fall of the twin towers, even on the actual date. He foresaw Hitler and his escapades, and many other great event. Personally I'm fascinated by the precision of his predictions. Although, I don't believe any magic can tell about the future and I more enjoy to poke holes on the myth using logic; and in these cases it's the point you have been trying to conduct Zeron; history repeats itself. Also, I found phrases from his work.

"In the year of the new century and nine months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror…
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city…

In the city of York there will be a great collapse,
two twin brothers torn apart by chaos
while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb
third big war will begin when the big city is burning"​

- Nostradamus​

His 'predictions' are only close enough to be attributed to being accurate. There are millions of these predictions released constantly and by a variety of people.

China is in no position to invade anyone right now. Granted they're doing well financially, but they lack the infrastructure to physically impose themselves on other nations. They are fast growing, but India is faster growing.

China won't take over by using its military, it'll do it by buying up other countries piece by piece. Since the US is making the same mistakes the USSR is doing, China won't have need to start a war. The US is more likely to do it in order to survive.

It's interesting though. The US has barred access to Cuba for decades because it's communist. China is fine though, because took all of our jobs away and saved the elitists' some money in doing so.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Fussiler1]

It's interesting though. The US has barred access to Cuba for decades because it's communist. China is fine though, because took all of our jobs away and saved the elitists' some money in doing so.

There's really a huge difference betwen Cuba and China..

 

[Boris_Spider]

There's really a huge difference betwen Cuba and China..

Yep. China can reasonably be exploited (cheap labor), while Cuba is of no value.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Zeron]

Agreed with above post

 

[En_Fuego]

Agreed with above post

well you're wrong for 2 reasons:

1) Cuba is right next to the United States and is therefore a likely option for an enemy of the United States to setup some type of missile bay (holy shit, this sounds familiar!)

and
2) They make the world's finest cigar.

edit: and boris, you severely underestimate China. If you're being sarcastic, then sorry, but I honestly can't tell. China has the world's largest and most powerful ground military and is the most technologically advanced country on the planet. There's a reason why everything is "made in China." It's because they make it the most efficiently.

 

[InfiniteSeven]

well you're wrong for 2 reasons:

1) Cuba is right next to the United States and is therefore a likely option for an enemy of the United States to setup some type of missile bay (holy shit, this sounds familiar!)

and
2) They make the world's finest cigar.

edit: and boris, you severely underestimate China. If you're being sarcastic, then sorry, but I honestly can't tell. China has the world's largest and most powerful ground military and is the most technologically advanced country on the planet. There's a reason why everything is "made in China." It's because they make it the most efficiently.

I wouldn't say they're the most technologically advanced country, they are advanced but far from being the most advanced. It'll also depend on the . The reason why everything is made in China because labor there is much cheaper partly due to the massive population and thus jobs are being outsourced over to China, where everything is made. They make things efficiently, yes, but the products they produce are notorious for poor quality and cutbacks which also explains the cheap prices (example, my friend bought an umbrella that was made in China for like 50 cents. As soon as he opened it the top of the umbrella slid off and the whole thing fell apart).

 

[Dr Super Good]

One must remember that China is nolonger rulled by an emperor... Infact it is the People's Republic of China which is a comunist run country. It has no reason in the near future to war with the developed world as that would not benifit its people. It however is the second most powerful country in the world and one must not forget that.

Although China is strick in its ways of ruling, it does do more for its people at times than the USA or UK. Ofcourse there will always be times it faulters but in the cases of natural disasters internally the government does send help (unlike USA and New Orleans).

China is also run by engineers unlike both the US and UK which are run by artists (skilled with the medium of words and law). China has incredable infustructure now in its Cities which is unseen anywhere else on this planet. They have the largest highspeed train network, longest bridge, tallest working building (the Dubie thing is empty), multiple of the world's largest airports, widest and most generating hydro electric scheeme. Do not forget their road network which at times consists of 7 mono directional lane motor ways (14 or more lanes in total). Ultimatly this is leaving Europe and America in the dark ages.

China is a hungery and powerful country and I believe will ultimatly need to expand once it reaches a critical level of development. It would however be totally nonsensical to attack developed countries while there are "developing" countries out there. Thus I believe Africa and other parts of Asia have the highest threat of a Chineese invasion and frankly, it can hardly be worse off than it currently is under some of the local governments.

So what should Europeans watch out for? Russia is probably the greatest threat to Europe as it is still fonomally strong as its recent milltry excursion showed. Although its nuclear power is probably nowhere near its histroy books impressions it probably still has very able and new weapons. As long as the gas is flowing, a war is unlikly but when it dries up...

The USA will probably be left alone, its too powerful and off the beaten path for China anyone to consider doing anything to it. As for what it does... well South America would be its best expansion options but there is no need for expansion considering how low its utalization of its current land is.

Frankly I do not forsee a large scale war in the next 50 years. Our technology is advancing so quickly that countries are failing to keep up with their own prodction capabilities and thus hardly need more land.

 

[Fussiler1]

Although China is strick in its ways of ruling, it does do more for its people at times than the USA or UK. Ofcourse there will always be times it faulters but in the cases of natural disasters internally the government does send help (unlike USA and New Orleans).

Yes, the USA had all inhabitants of New Orleans killed.

. . .

China is a hungery and powerful country and I believe will ultimatly need to expand once it reaches a critical level of development. It would however be totally nonsensical to attack developed countries while there are "developing" countries out there. Thus I believe Africa and other parts of Asia have the highest threat of a Chineese invasion and frankly, it can hardly be worse off than it currently is under some of the local governments.

Invasion? Why would China invade Africa? It would tip off America and Europe, and investing in it would be far handier, then venture in the wasp nest.

@OP

Well the fact is china has always been a important part of the world through any historical time period. The civilization of china is the ONLY civilization that hs been prominent and important from the beggining of civilization. Arguably it might not always have been the most important but nevertheless its influence on the world has been felt by its people and its neighbors since the beginning and before of documented time. The few time china has failed to bring in its vassals(such as the independent Korea, Vietnam, and Japan) it has used the ideas of the victors of any of their endevors to propel it forward in the future.

What about Iraq, then?

Sumerians --> Babylon --> Persia --> Macedon --> Parthia --> Sassanid Empire --> The Caliphate --> The Ottomans/Safavids --> Present

All of these rulers pretty much took over the existing state over, so it's not really the only civilization that has been prominent since the begin of times, as Iraq pretty much was an economic centre from then to now, and the earliest roots of civilization began there.

If history is to be repeated and china does what china always will do, in their xenophobia, and throw out the foreign ideas to take back up their Confucius government and yes dynasty based system, after they take the world stage by storm yet again.

... and suffer an immense economic disaster. But sure, go ahead. By the way, do you know what happened to the Qing Dynasty with their anti-foreign sentiment?

However my question to use is how will the economic superpowers of the world like America and japan or the politically powerful like Spain, France, and England, react to china's re-emergence as the world power? Bare in mind that the Chinese hasn't been near the height of its worldly influence in the past since before most of the dominant countries at this time have even been established. America has never even seen the Chinese as a significant power till recently and the Chinese were in a social end economic decline around the firm establishment of most European powers till recently as well.

An anti-foreign policy would most likely cause factories and businesses and such to move to India or Vietnam, and I doubt any superpower would react well to such a thing. Besides that, how would China 're-emerge' as Super-power if it already -is- a superpower?

 

[InfiniteSeven]

One must remember that China is nolonger rulled by an emperor... Infact it is the People's Republic of China which is a comunist run country. It has no reason in the near future to war with the developed world as that would not benifit its people. It however is the second most powerful country in the world and one must not forget that.

Agreed there, Imperial China hasn't existed for well over a century and even then it was in serious decline. War would only hurt China's phenomenal growth and impressive power.

Although China is strick in its ways of ruling, it does do more for its people at times than the USA or UK. Ofcourse there will always be times it faulters but in the cases of natural disasters internally the government does send help (unlike USA and New Orleans).

Well I'm sure the Chinese government does quite a bit to help its people in cases like this, it doesn't quite make sense to me when you take into the fact that China has had six of the world's deadliest natural disasters and 200 million people a year are affected by natural disasters in China. Not too sure on this one.

China is also run by engineers unlike both the US and UK which are run by artists (skilled with the medium of words and law). China has incredable infustructure now in its Cities which is unseen anywhere else on this planet. They have the largest highspeed train network, longest bridge, tallest working building (the Dubie thing is empty), multiple of the world's largest airports, widest and most generating hydro electric scheeme. Do not forget their road network which at times consists of 7 mono directional lane motor ways (14 or more lanes in total). Ultimatly this is leaving Europe and America in the dark ages.

China may have some nice infrastructure in its cities, but they're certainly far from leaving the rest of the world in the dust. For one thing, pollution is a HORRIBLY restricting factor, I mean have you seen Beijing? I also heard China had the world's longest traffic jam in August on the news, 60 miles.

Also, why is the fact that China has more grand transportation projects as well as a really tall building mean America and Europe are in the dark ages?

China is a hungery and powerful country and I believe will ultimatly need to expand once it reaches a critical level of development. It would however be totally nonsensical to attack developed countries while there are "developing" countries out there. Thus I believe Africa and other parts of Asia have the highest threat of a Chineese invasion and frankly, it can hardly be worse off than it currently is under some of the local governments.

China won't attack any country. Its pretty idiotic for any well-established country as big and powerful on the world scene as China to even conceive to do that. Everyone is going to come down harshly on China and no one is going to allow China to do that. In addition, a war is extremely costly and one of aggression won't make China look good and its most likely that most of the world won't approve and economic actions like restricting vital war materials and such from most of the world won't be too good.

So what should Europeans watch out for? Russia is probably the greatest threat to Europe as it is still fonomally strong as its recent milltry excursion showed. Although its nuclear power is probably nowhere near its histroy books impressions it probably still has very able and new weapons. As long as the gas is flowing, a war is unlikly but when it dries up...

Again, a major power like Russia isn't going to be stupid enough to start a war with Europe. For one thing, the rest of the world is going to come down harshly on Russia again, and I'm not quite convinced Russia has what it takes to face against the rest of Europe and the United States (which is bound to come to defend its NATO allies).

The USA will probably be left alone, its too powerful and off the beaten path for China anyone to consider doing anything to it. As for what it does... well South America would be its best expansion options but there is no need for expansion considering how low its utalization of its current land is.

The last thing the US needs is to start pointless wars against South American nations. And also, the US isn't going to sit around idly while China tries to invade its allies (which is unlikely to happen with the current state of the world).

Frankly I do not forsee a large scale war in the next 50 years. Our technology is advancing so quickly that countries are failing to keep up with their own prodction capabilities and thus hardly need more land.

Its more like advancements in technology and more intelligent usage of resources have increased the production capabilities of most nations of the world tremendously which eliminates the need for more land.

A more stable and strict (compared to the first half of the 20th century and the 19th century) world political scene prevents any major power from aggressively annexing countries.

 

[chilla_killa]

I'm looking forward to play Fallout 3 in reality

 

[Boris_Spider]

well you're wrong for 2 reasons:

1) Cuba is right next to the United States and is therefore a likely option for an enemy of the United States to setup some type of missile bay (holy shit, this sounds familiar!)

and
2) They make the world's finest cigar.

edit: and boris, you severely underestimate China. If you're being sarcastic, then sorry, but I honestly can't tell. China has the world's largest and most powerful ground military and is the most technologically advanced country on the planet. There's a reason why everything is "made in China." It's because they make it the most efficiently.

I'm not argueing that China has the largest and most powerful ground military. I'm arguing it lacks the ability to move it, thus it would be very difficult to invade but with little issue dealing with its army outside of it's neighbors borders. We also know that it's investing in creating the infrastructure necessary to do that.

The reason everything is made in China is not because they make it most efficiently, it's because they do it cheaply. The products they make don't last. The US doesn't allow/prevent access to countries and markets because they may bomb us, it does it because it's good business. China is much easier to exploit than Cuba, so we go there and 'punish' Cuba for not cooperating with out demands. The US, and most everyone else, is just beginning to realise that China has been exploiting all of us more then we have it.

Governments maintain their control by both redirecting their constituents' anger and by generating the illusion of helping them. Governments are focused on increasing their own power. Governments benefit the elitist class. While it's true people can change this and have, people always stop governing their government and thus allowing the problems every country enjoys to continue until a point is reached where the people can't take it anymore and overthrow the government. A government rules by keeping its people scared and uneducated. It's a well known fact that you can control the Land of the Brave by scaring them.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Tyranid]

I'm looking forward to play Fallout 3 in reality

Enjoy dying slowly and painfully to cancer.

 

[Dr Super Good]

China may have some nice infrastructure in its cities, but they're certainly far from leaving the rest of the world in the dust. For one thing, pollution is a HORRIBLY restricting factor, I mean have you seen Beijing? I also heard China had the world's longest traffic jam in August on the news, 60 miles.

Also, why is the fact that China has more grand transportation projects as well as a really tall building mean America and Europe are in the dark ages?

Pollution is something they are working on, frankly it is no worse (even better than) Europe and America when they went through their eras of rapid industrilization. Do remember that the USA still has one of the highest emmision volumes of all countries in the world before knocking China so much.

The fact remains that they have the worlds longest traffic jam while having 14 lane moterways just goes to show how crazilly built up their cities are. How would you expect London or New York to hold if they had that much traffic running through them? Only reason London does not have 60 mile traffic jams is that the UK has measures in place to activly punish car users and force them onto aging mass transport or to not come at all in cities unlike China (or atleast to a much lesser degree).

The USA and Europe is suffering from an aging infustructurre. Some parts of Europe (Germany and Switzerland mainly) are attempting to modernize however still are relying on structures built during WW2 for every day travel and are not willing to reach certain levels of development. USA is not modernizing at all, frankly its amazing the country still works when many bridges and power structures would be condoned hazardous and unsafe by European standards due to cheap initial construction and no maintence.

China however is rolling in the lattest stuff and often not willing to cut corners on it as well. A rail network and road network designed during the 19th centuray can not hold up against modern engineering.

China won't attack any country. Its pretty idiotic for any well-established country as big and powerful on the world scene as China to even conceive to do that. Everyone is going to come down harshly on China and no one is going to allow China to do that. In addition, a war is extremely costly and one of aggression won't make China look good and its most likely that most of the world won't approve and economic actions like restricting vital war materials and such from most of the world won't be too good.

You fail to see just how desparate people are... Perhapse you should watch the news more and see how the world is in a global recession. If a Republican president gets in the USA they will probably instantly go to war with Iran or something stupid to continue with the last Republican's work so have no room to talk about China. The UK can not do shit anymore millitry wise, they can not even afford aircraft for one of their carriers and rely increasingly heavilly on China for business. Russia would not care if China invaded africa and the rest of the developed world could only throw words at China (unless they want to get obliterated from the face of the planet).

Russia also relys on gas, so if that runs low they would be quite willing to take over some ungaurded (as good as) african or other countries for some more.

Frankly China can hardly run most African countries worse than they are already run. Additionally you forget that China is already taking actions to attempt to gain influence over some of them by getting Chineese companies to establish factories or mining opperations, giving them all the more reason to take them over, especially if they start getting xenophobic (another tibet).

You also do not know exactly how much money millions of Chineese people earn... It is getting to the stage that China is importing cheap labour from places like Europe cause it costs them more to locally employ people from China. Ofcourse most people will still earn badly in China, but subtracting most from a billion still leaves a huge number and those people earn huge sums well past some well paid jobs in Europe and America.