Castle Siege

[sk8er754]

(If you have any idea's on how to improve and make this map more for fun PM me and ill give credit.)
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*Front page redone*
(Front page is alittle behind so information is a bit old)

Main Idea
In beta version:
Eight Players start in a castle.
Their is 4 players to each team, each 4players get the north or south castle as their base.
The main objective in Castle Siege is to slay the opposing teams king.

Current Features
Currently, players 1 and 5 will be in charge of manning and maintaining the castles main towers.
Players 2 and 6 will be in charge of controlling the king.
Players 3,4 - 7,8 will play normal roles for now.
A list of units and buildings are found below.
Their will be only 1 hero per player and for players controlling a king, that will be their hero.
Siege Towers able to lock on specific spots along castle walls for enemy troops to get over.
Mercenary system that that unlocks more units to purchase as you purchase more units.
Example: purchase 5 units, unlock tier 2 units to buy, etc.
***Fully done Epic quest for the kings finally implemented for both kings***


Upcoming Features
Archers will be given a range buff on certain area's of heightened elevation.
Players 2 and 5 will be able to pursue a quest only for them thats controlling the king.
An income system based on a small village you build will determine you gold intake.
Custom spells, though very basic, will be added to the heroes until later editing.
Kings will be the first hero's to get fully custom abilitys.
Custom modelled siege tower

Units that will be in beta:

Complete Bloodelf race:
*All infantry units will get a defensive and offensive stance ability*

Berserker* Berserk and cleave ability
Bloodelf Archcleric--Heal and Burning Blade Ability
Bloodelf Archer--Pending-
Bloodelf Crusader--Dash (speed up)
Bloodelf Pikeman--Pending-
Bloodelf Warrior--Pending-
Catapult
Ballista*
Trebuchet
Worker

Bloodelf Heroes:

Bloodelf Mage
Bloodelf Paladin
Bloodelf Warrior
Bloodelf Wizard

Buildings # = ingame
Miltary = M Civillian = C *Civillian buildings are key to future income system*

#Blacksmith *M*
#Bloodelf Barracks *M*
#Hero Altar *M*
#Quarry *M*
#Workshop *M*
#Townhall *C*
#Farm *C*
Barn *C*
Market *C*
Bank *C* (Pending)


I'll be adding more as I go. I might have left out some things but they'll get in soon.

 

[wd40bomber7]

I would suggest you wait a little longer before presenting this to us. (Like when your in beta stages)

However all in all I'd say the idea is pretty good.

 

[sk8er754]

Beta

Yea your right. I was just trying to see if i could stir up some opinions where someone would say this might work well in it,etc, for some extra idea's.

Oh if u noticed the top moat isnt blue like the bottom. The only way i can make it so you can make dirt bridges across the map while playing is to have them already their and then hide them at the beginning plus some spaced out pathing blockers corresponding with triggers to make the illusion that your sorta fillin up a part of the moat to get your soldiers across.

I haven't quite worked out the trigger for it but it should be done soon and beta might be up by the end of the weekend if i work hard hopefully.

 

[Mini-Berserker]

It looks ridiculously sick right now man. I made a game like this called "Uther's Castle Defense" but it was more just one castle and units attacked you.

But yah man, this game looks like it could go somewhere. I suggest making it 4 on 4 because usually games with 4 players or less are a little on the weak side to take off as well as ones where more players can come in.

 

[Craka_J]

Ballistas are placed on towers of the castle. Usually on all four corners of the castle. Ballistas on the ground in the entry way of the castle is foolish because it is easy to destroy and even melee units can attack it. So it has a lot of disadvantages.
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

Info

Yea I was thinking if I should keep them stationary or have mobile ballista's that are smaller and weaker then stationary ballista's around the castle? Same for catapults to but catapults will have a larger aoe dmg effect that spreads out dmg and ballista's will have a smaller aoe dmg effect but centers higher dmg.

Ill update screenies later tonight with more tweaks.

 

[Craka_J]

The terrain also needs a lot of work. It looks very vacant and no detail what so ever. Not even good tile variation or hills!
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

Idea's

I still have some fresh idea's i havent tried yet but anyone have something maybe unique that could be implemented fairly easily?

New idea's I haven't touched yet
Reinforcement from cavalry after sounding a horn or starting a flame on top of your castle where in a certain amount of time a band of cavalry in your color (non selectable) runs in from a path leading off the map to help in a losing battle.

I have nothing yet on how income will work. If it will be from total peasants or a nearby goldmine or farming which includes peasants. Need idea's for that.

I pretty much have everything for the units already covered but lacking in ways in which troops will be trained in the castle. If by like barracks or maybe building with a custom doodad look of a rack of weapons or idk. It would get really crowded unless the trainer buildings were scaled down.

Anything that might turn on light-bulb .

 

[Craka_J]

To help you out, here are some models that should prove useful:

http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=94450

http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=94390

http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=87922

These are just a couple of unit models that should help your progress on the map. I'll try to look for a lot more stuff to aid you later on though.
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

links

Not bad, thanx for the links. Im already using the trebuchet as a buildable structure . Still workin on those screenies. Worked 7-8hours straight out of boredom and had to play some games for fun.

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Thats not a bad idea Craka_J.
Heading out till sunday so ill do updates then. Phone call just woke me up out of my computer chair..my bed was this chair for a week straight once but i dont remember what i was playing..

 

[Craka_J]

Yeah. What I do usually on the side from modding is play TcX or TKoK (Wc3 mods or maps) until I want to do modding work again.

[Edit]:
Also remember that it takes about four to even six people to control a single trebuchet. Making a trigger for the trebuchet to work when it is full of at least four people would be a cool idea.
~Craka_J

 

[madman9800]

the screenshots look very nice, seems like a cool map, will defenatly play it when its released

 

[sk8er754]

screenies

I posted some newer screens but the battle was at night so i'll repost some day ones later.

Still adding new ability's to units. Hero's dont have any custom spells atm. I dont think they will until after beta unless I give each hero just 1 custom spell.

And Terrain still untouched until everything else is completed.

 

[Craka_J]

Were those units preplaced to line up like that in front of their enemies, or have you actually designed the A.I. to really be that smart? :O
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

ai

Nah I wish i had the time to for that. I was just simulating what I would do in a fight in open field and see how it worked and how i could defeat it. Have short range combat in front with pikemen that can attack just behind the swordsman with their increased range and then archers in the back with afew berserkers on the left side and cavalry on the right lol.

I'm stumped now that i figured out that the defend ability doesnt increase or decrease regular dmg, which i thought it did in previous versions somehow, so im trying to come up with a new stance activated ability like defend but defend so practically perfect cept that one flaw.

 

[Gilles]

If you ever need I can help you with terrain.

 

[Craka_J]

Yeah, that terrain needs a serious make-over! Very plain and not interesting to be honest. I'd recommend allowing Gilles to help you within that area since he is experienced and obviously willing to help you.
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

Terrain

That would be a good idea. Im one of those math-science people that suck at english-art type things, basically meaning i don't have a very creative mind when it comes to terrain lol.
I wanted a height elevation trigger that being so high would increase range on archers so i could have hills between castles for advantage points but i'll have to see if i ever get something like that down.
I'll keep tweaking it till its combat ready and then see if Gilles will help with the terrain then .

 

[Craka_J]

Grats to both of you then, and good luck!
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

Beta

Been taking a break from this map and been working on a new space map so haven't added much yet. Did some model rescaling, made castle walls taller etc.

Planning on still adding traveling merchants, siege towers to get troops over walls, and income by number of controlled farms for now. I'll take out human units for beta till the human set is complete for 2 playable races (Humans and Blood elves for now).

Then the last thing for beta will be finishing triggers for making dirt bridges on the moat to get across at a different point around the castle.

So merchants,siege towers,income,and moat triggers left.
Then I can slow down alot for the complete version.
*Oh cant forget about that terrain lol* Plan on increasing borders for the complete game and adding maybe 2 more castles for 3v3v3v3 fights.

I'de go all the way to 12 castles maybe or even 6 for 2vs2-etc but the lag in the WE at the select doodad window from all the doodads makes that unappealing for me though it doesn't lag in game.

 

[Craka_J]

Travelling merchants? So what exactly is the real plan of this map? Two fortresses that border each other and fight against each other? Or is it more of an expansionism and strategically based around economy and military power? Please, do elaborate more about your map!
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

plans

I was just planning on a 3vs3 but I like the idea of having a 3v3v3v3 game with four castles for now.

I think i'll have to throw out being able to make land bridges across the moats anywhere u so you could bypass maybe the front castle defenses because making it as i am now would just take to many doodads and how the WE gets laggy when selecting doodads for triggers when theirs alot of them on the map.

Travelling merchants will be just for carrying unique hero items across the map and thinking about adding buy-sell gold and stone and would march between all castles and would have like 2 sets of gold and stone on so if one castle has to much gold and not enough stone he can buy the 2 sets of stone of and now the merchant has 4 sets of gold.

Then he could pass by another castle and they have to much stone and not enough gold. They can sell 3sets of stone and get 3 sets of gold in return. Now the merchant has 1 set of gold and 3 sets of stone.

So this way everyone can affect each others economy. You could say be trying to defeat the castle in the south by trading alot of stone for gold to hire troops but the castle in the south could be in need of stone to strengthen defenses from your attacks and he would take his gold and exchange for your stone you just traded to fend off your attack.

So you could help or hurt the other by what materials you bought.

For income wise and lack of area in castles you'll have to build your farms for periodic income outside, probably right outside your castle walls incase a neighboring enemy trys to raid your peasant town to destroy your gold income. That'll make u choose either to move your entire army to destroy another castle and leave your castle and town wide open to attack or take only half your army to defend and attack and risk losing with low forces but keeping your town/castle fairly secure.

Another addition will be strategic spots laid out across the map that are empty and able to be occupied to use as scout bases and temporary base camps to store troops moving across the map. EX: A gate connected to a corridor connected to a staircase leading up to the top of a tower.
Garrison your archers inside on top of the tower with melee units in the corridor to stop pike man,swordsman, etc from running through allowing yourself a good choke point. Their would have to be some pathing/sight blockers placed well in/around to prevent outside archers from harassment to the garrisoned troops inside like castles.

Plenty of more stuff to pop up later but for now, just working on getting beta playable. I'll probably move the entire castle in the north somewhere else after the battle system seems ok.

 

[Craka_J]

Sounds pretty cool. A bit more complex than I was expecting from you to be honest. But that is a good thing.
Can't wait for the final conclusion of this map.
~Craka_J

 

[Yabooer]

Very nice idea but the terrain could be worked on (didn't read the whole thread just looked thru the post and screenies) Just a suggestion no need to take it into consideration Make it a 5v5 2 bases make a system where you can send waves such as a Bandit wave that sends 3 bandits and 2 bandit spear throwers to help out what your troops your sending so you don't have to micro 50 guys. Make them very expensive because they are computer controlled making it easier to fight. Make a wave thats ok good and then very good. Good luck with this map.

 

[sk8er754]

Victory Condition

What are some possibilty's for a victory condition? A no castle controlled condition or a leader (king) killed for each force? If you can think of anything let me know.

Need to get it down quick and it should be ready for a closed beta.

 

[Craka_J]

Do not forget that in all castles and keeps, once the Lord dies, the morale of everyone whose controlled by him drops drastically and the majority of the inhabitants surrender. Eventually the troops do as well once their leader has been slain by the enemy.

Might want to make that a defeat condition.
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

I may have some time to work on the terrain if you want, although I will have to brush up on making walls walkable, it's been a long time. I never fully figured it out.

 

[sk8er754]

K

K ill send it over asap. I was out of town most the weekend so didnt have a chance to do much. Its not finished but its alright for now.

 

[sk8er754]

Delays

Bah, I somehow bugged my map so i cant see it in custom games in wc3. I can launch it from world editor but i cant find it on the list of maps to play. I think it started when i made a copy of a tree and replaced it with a diff model of a rock.

Deleting the object doesnt help so i'll have to go back to versions and copy paste and leave out the custom rock and do it the right way and see if it doesnt bug this time...

 

[Craka_J]

You might have moved the map to another folder or location; like moving the map from the Warcraft\Maps\ folder to Warcraft\Maps\Downloads\ folder.

All you have to do is simply look for the file and open it. Then there you go!
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

weird

moved it to a different folder and it shows now idk lol. Unless i have 2 folders exactly with the same name, which is possible lol, i like to keep backups of my maps and it gets kinda cluttered .

Glad i dont have to re-do 2 saves of work heh =D.

 

[Craka_J]

I'm happy to hear that my advice actually helped you.
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

Update:

Terrain, hope you like it. still WIP and the trees hopefully will be replaced soon by custom models. I am sorta happy with it. I have to make room for the huge scale wars!

 

[Craka_J]

Definately a lot better than last time. Though it does need some work. I recommend you guys look up Castle Blueprints. They will definately help you guys figure out what the landform of the region the castle is in and what kind of stuff is usually built within the walls of the fortress and out.

Keep it up Gilles! This project actually sounds cool, especially if you end up going for realisim a lot as well.
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

sk8er754 gets all credit. I only do the terrain. He also did the castles.

As I said before, it's hard to make a really nice terrain when you need open space to fight. I may almost get rid of trees, have a few here and there, but just put different grasses and a few rocks. That way it's all visible and walkable.

 

[Craka_J]

The castles should be built accurately to how they would be built back in Medieval times. That is the least you can do, since the name of this project is "Castle Siege".
~Craka_J

 

[gavdaman88]

That castle looks sweet! But try adding more props like corpses and scorched remains I reckon.

 

[Gilles]

That castle looks sweet! But try adding more props like corpses and scorched remains I reckon.

That's my job. Working on it.

Here's another update. The mines. Needs a lot more work. Basic idea.

 

[sk8er754]

Niceee

Great work Gilles =). That terrain really makes a difference. I wasn't planning on increasing borders till after beta but with the increased terrain, feel free to pump the map size . It was really congested before I took out the moats.

For the castles, I might as well start looking for those layouts. I think we can lean closer to a more finished map instead of pure beta.

I was hard pressed for time making the castles when I was working on chars/abilities/balancing/etc so I did rush the castle.
*If u hadn't noticed, one castle is almost a clone of the other =\*

We'll work on making the castles 4x better, till then, I got some research to do.

*P.S. Of course you'll be getting half the credit . I see games defined by how well the play and how well they look, so thats a 50/50 to me .

 

[Gilles]

I'm not going to edit the castle walls at all. Just terrain the inside. I don't want to have to re-make them at this time.\

Also the models work in-game, but I can't see them in the editor. Why is this?

Edit: Update. Inside of castle. I just realized how tall the river rushes are. I don't like it, I will probably replace them with custom grass. Let me know what you think about the rushes.

 

[sk8er754]

castles

Np, i'll take care of all the castles, units, etc.

I'm not sure atm why it doesnt show ingame, it does for me? The models are showing as those green cubes? or just not at all?

I might try out afew of the castles in the editor just for fun to see what I can make.

The pikeman,swordsman, and cavalry still need a special ability. I haven't quite decided on. Its lookin like;

Swordsman- I really cant think of anything for swordsman. Their
dual-wielding so it will probably be an augmented dmg/attack type ability.
A riposte ability?

Arch Clerics- Undecided- Unit usability pending

Cavalry- Looking at some sort of charge attack .

Pikeman- An ability to cancel out cavalry's charge attack and return damage to cavalry.

Berserkers- *Done* Just a berserk mode for extra damage. Their not in the elf race but I think i'll keep them use-able till the human race is completed.

Archers- *Done but in question* They get a one shot 450dmg arrow about the length of 1 battle, maybe 2.
It seemed overpowered but its alright. Its no worse then the humans berserker's using berserk/offensive stance.

Looking to add two new races. Thinking dwarves and a demon race. Not sure really. Depends on what models I have to use ingame or imported.
Maybe make a poll and top 2 will be added.

*Edit*
Looking good Gilles =). Their is parts of the inner castle that I haven't touched up yet like the east wall but I'll have it fixed later.

*Edit2* Oh your right, im not good at finding that stuff out lol. I think scaling set to 50 would make it look best?

*Edit3* Im going to upload a pic of a castle im making quick. I've got 14 castles to choose from so i'll make 1 or 2 and get screens up and then upload the original castle layouts and see if theirs any likeness just for fun.

 

[sk8er754]

Re-importing models later

I see what u mean by not being able to see things ingame. Its that way for me now to. Ill reload an older version but im not sure why its doing that all of a sudden. Atleast it works ingame.

Castle models all work so thats all I really need but I think I might need to re-import all the models and just put the paths back to the units again to see them in the editor. Would take just 15minutes, maybe 20-25 but its nothing to big.

 

[Gilles]

For some reason the models don't work at times. I've actually had this problem before. Just re-load the map when it happens.

 

[sk8er754]

just messing around

Here's a couple screens from inside a castle I made for fun.
I won't be making examples in game of all the castles I have pics for, cause this one to get perfect, took about 4hours (7-11pm) lol.

I'll probably note how many wall sections their is and use it to make it in the official map.

Just screens on the inside cuz the outside and around isnt doodaded.

 

[Craka_J]

Looking very good so far. Good thing you recruited Gilles to work on this with you.
~Craka_J

 

[sk8er754]

terrain

yea lol, im not much of a terrainer =P.

 

[sk8er754]

In the mean time

While your doing terrain on castle siege im going to look at my other 5 unfinished maps and ressurect a couple. 2 rpgs/3melee's. Just to give me something to do .

 

[Gilles]

Sounds good! Although as I said I don't really want to mess with the castle yet. I'll get the terrain done, then you can mess with it, and either add castles and re do the ones now, and have me do more terrain, or do the terrain yourself.

 

[Craka_J]

Make sure you give the castles moats!
~Craka_J

 

[Gilles]

Not sure what sk8ter wants, but right now one will have a moat, and the other won't. It has a raised area beside the castle. I will try and keep it balanced. It's hard to do without making it just symmetrical or boring.

Changed the shrubs and river rushes to animated shrubs and animated grass. I thought it would look nice.