Bows and Arrows

[wubalubudubdub]

Just finished chapter 6 and 7. Here are my thoughts:

Spoiler: Chapter 6 and 7 feedback:

Chapter 6: I loved this one, especially the siege at the fort!

• I died once during the fort siege, and after wards the allied minions stopped attacking. Not sure if they were scripted to stop attacking at some point? I had to solo from the last 2 barracks and cannon.
• When I died I had thought that my game had ended and I needed to load from a previous save. Might I recommend making it clear to the player that if you die you will respawn at this specific location? maybe use a generic resurrection stone so it's commonly known that this is where the hero will revive if they die (+ping on the map to show where).

Chapter 7: While I liked that the whole idea of this chapter and that it is to close off the campaign. I would've liked it to be a bit longer - but no worries.

• The beginning cutscene where it shows Annie killing Mevin is very confusing. I only understood it because I read another post in this thread that it was a dream. I think we need to make this more clear to the audience that it is a dream - like add the dream/foggy effect or something? Or a type a transition that could help the player realize that was just a dream.
• I also wanted to know more about what happened to the Fort General from Chapter 6, the Boss Paladin (Roland i think?) that Raiden and Jenn kills in in chapter 6. At some point in their conversation (Jenn and Roland(?)) I had believed that Annie could have been Roland's wife and mother to his daughter, who I presume have all been killed. Would have loved to know some back-story on who Annie was and whether she had any family. And why did she have the demonic powers to control Undead?

Overall, THOROUGHLY ENJOYED this campaign. 5/5 and should be at least High Quality imo

 

[ThinhHo]

@wubalubudubdub , thank you for doing the first and detailed feedback on Bows and Arrows. I really appreciate it. I'll take all of your feedback into consideration and improve the campaign accordingly.

I died once during the fort siege, and after wards the allied minions stopped attacking. Not sure if they were scripted to stop attacking at some point? I had to solo from the last 2 barracks and cannon.

They were scripted to stop when you reach the area near the High Guardian so that you'd be the only one facing him, without undead reinforcement midfight.

When I died I had thought that my game had ended and I needed to load from a previous save. Might I recommend making it clear to the player that if you die you will respawn at this specific location? maybe use a generic resurrection stone so it's commonly known that this is where the hero will revive if they die (+ping on the map to show where).

That's a great feedback. I thought of that but didn't think much of it before it glossed over my mind and I forgot about it. It's simple but your recommendation is an effective way for the game to communicate with players in this map.

The beginning cutscene where it shows Annie killing Mevin is very confusing. I only understood it because I read another post in this thread that it was a dream. I think we need to make this more clear to the audience that it is a dream - like add the dream/foggy effect or something? Or a type a transition that could help the player realize that was just a dream.

I agree with your point as well. Two other players also said the same thing so it seems like my intention with this screen has backfired and caused more negatives than positives. I'll change it.

I also wanted to know more about what happened to the Fort General from Chapter 6, the Boss Paladin (Roland i think?) that Raiden and Jenn kills in in chapter 6. At some point in their conversation (Jenn and Roland(?)) I had believed that Annie could have been Roland's wife and mother to his daughter, who I presume have all been killed

The Paladin at that fort was Zander. From the dialogue, you could kinda piece together that his wife died not long ago (presumably killed by undead). He was heart broken and decided to stayed inside the cathedral mourning for her death.
One thing I can tell you that Annie is not his wife.
There were also 2 hints during the campaign telling players who Annie is.
I also planned 2 more maps for this campaign that go further into the backstory of both Jenn and Annie. Once players go through these maps, they'll know exactly who they are. However, these maps haven't been worked on. They are just ideas for now.

 

[deepstrasz]

Spoiler: uninteresting comments

1. Failed to respawn patrol 1 message when killing a militia near the southern part of the map where a fence is.
2. Abra calls the razormane a kobold. Probably uneducated?
3. Some of the bell ringers (especially the two southeast of the village and north of the archer near two cages and a tent), come to attack but they also want to run so they simply mimic attacking and essentially stand still near your troops.
4. It's not clear where or how Annie knows of these forest(?) spirits(?) Enid and Gaia. I guess she encountered them first off screen after meeting Jenn?
5. During the scene with the little girl, the blood on the ground should not be there.
6. There's definitely Berserk vibes.
7. Playing and getting immersed into the world and story gives a feeling of unease. Partly, you feel compassion for Annie because she's young, naive and unknowing as well as reanimated for someone else's interests and partly because you're actually killing innocent people too. Of course, you're growing and the story up until now hints that Annie has a budding empathy for both living and the dead.
8. Not sure if Annie's acquisition range is also 650 as her attack range.
9. Symbolically the two women could just be living for the sake of it, survival. In that sense they are living dead.
10. Like how patience and exploration is rewarded not only with items and experience but story expansion.
11. Not sure if intended to be able to hide behind the haystacks on the cliff during Enid's trial. Melee units can't reach you. Or near the granary on the cliff.
12. Heavy Footman, Clint, Max, a villager woamn and Miles have ! signs but nothing happens when you click them or go near. I've been first to Sulivan and then to Antonion(?).
13. Kaitlyn can pass through the big castle up north behind to the wall.
14. Why do power generators regenerate?
15. Blinking beauty orbs of fire panel should disappear after quest completion.
16. To the right/just east of Aric, there's an Undead Villager 02 near a house.
17. One of the kobolds was locked between ruins, near the edge of a cliff to the center south.
18. Eventually the murloc sorcerer stopped coming at me while I was shooting piercing arrows at him from a big distance. Happened when he reached the far northeast of the marshes/swamps/whatever. North of this place, there's a higher ground path leading to some golems.
19. Not sure if intended but level 1 spiders run away from you when getting hit. Not all but most, especially those out of the eggs.
20. A huge level, chapter 4, tedious, gameplay gets repetitive especially with vast creep zones and creeps respawning. Would help to get a boots of speed for very fast movement. Perhaps there's one but I haven't yet found it. Not saying there isn't any reward in that farming gives xp but it gets boring after a while. Becomes bearable once you get the ring of regeneration and the artifact that gives mana regen. But if you don't know where to find them, you can have a really frustrating time until then.
21. Also the unit tester quest is just annoying and kind of specific.
22. Other than that the village and interactions there are top notch.
23. Already been near one of the optional quest statues. Would be nice not to have to go again since the map is big and transportation not that fast even with blinking plus creeps respawn.
24. Uca Major can be attracted to the waterfall while you stay on top and shoot from above. During the crab summoning, the boss gets some green icon buff along with a buff with a girl's face.
25. Piercing Arrow is much more beneficial overall than the Crystal Spear's ability.
26. Sometimes creeps respawn weirdly like a magma golem in the northern murloc waters or a murloc hunter in the wolves land mid east.
27. Not to mention I've played 80% of the map before finding the third spell xD
28. What are shadows for? I killed one in the level with Vivian's zombie father and nothing happened.
29. Piercing Arrow and Malevolent Chains switch places after game load.
30. I feel Singed and Mevin's way back to the village is quite filler.
31. Mevin's abilities all have dummy icons and tooltips missing. Mind Necrosis is OK.
32. The wagon has no visibility and therefore can't be moved/selected when in the fog of war.
33. Catapult to bring down a tower? Heck no. A bow would do and undead have plenty of time.
34. Malevolent Chains can be cast on the tower even though the buff doesn't appear but the damage per second works and the tower is disabled from attacking during that time.
35. Annie takes little damage from the tower by the way.
36. Fragmented Orb's range is less than Annie's. Would be a good idea to mention the value in the description.
37. You can fight with another orc tower from below the cliff.
38. From the orc scripted battle after the scene when Annie asks Mevin about her teacher lying, the gameplay is repetitive creep farming. Even the orcs are uninteresting for the most part, simply waiting to be slaughtered. No story or anything about them or something to spice things up. Well, the barracks and great hall are a nice thing. Got them down solo aided by the Malevolent Chains to do faster damage. Their sasquatch was also a treat: miniboss. Oh, the orcs aren't optional.
39. By the way, after the first orc contact the camera bounds increase and a small part in the murloc lands is accessible. It's kind of meh though to have to return so much far back for them. Well, I found a place to blink through the forest and then to them from the northern water parts. The xp you gain from them though is hardly any merit to go there. Ooooh, a lever! xD But still not worth turning back for just that.
40. For crying out loud. One of the shades is on the other side of the world...
41. Well, I couldn't have known that saving would not be allowed during the Roland fight. Now I can't use any abilities, they simply cancel. OK, they started working after I died. But then they stopped again. I don't know if it has anything to do with trying to select Roland. Using Malevolent Chains on him also breaks the gameplay. I guess it also happens if you select the troops or hover the cursor over them too much.
42. Item cooldowns don't reset (for instance Emerald Gem of Health) after the battle restarts.
43. Jenn's abilities are like Mevin's without proper descriptions and having dummy icons.
44. In the second phase Roland doesn't do much of anything than move and attack. There's two more shooters which are brought down easier than the first time. Also, the enemy prioritizes Annie, Jenn being bonus DPS for Annie.
45. Raiden's abilities are tooltip missing and have the same girl dummy icons. Of course, Jenn's too. I guess it's a game patch version bug or something. However, it seems there's no FX from Jenn's first and second abilities.
46. Shadow Swap is fine though.
47. Replacing the first ability made it look and work normal.
48. The constant haunting leaves you without proper HP regeneration. Well, you can start over with what you've gained but have to move from the start... Woohoo. Managed to eliminate the ghost and it seemed to stop.
49. I think the enemy Obsidian Statues are rejuvenating your mana.
50. Malevolent Chains works on Arcane Towers. Who needs Death and Decay xD?
51. The same issue happens with Zander when you can't use your abilities in certain cases as specified with Roland.
52. Also you don't start with full health or item cooldown reset. My golem was still in the arena after I died.
53. It's silly, you can't dodge the second spell as it casts right on you. So you'd have to teleport before Zander even casts. Some times you can dodge properly, other times it damages even outside the circle quite far. Sometimes it's random, he finishes dashing and instantly starts to cast the second spell so you're not left with much time to shoot him. Also haven't found any ring of health so life regen is kind of down. There was that 200 over 20 seconds one but I dropped it for bonus damage to nearby troops.
54. It takes a million years before the fight restarts.
55. So I liked Jenn's map, just the last boos battle needs a bit of tweaking.
56. Where did Enid and Gaia disappear?
57. Same issue happens with Raiden, your spells get cancelled if you hover over him or something. I don't know the exact cause but it's just frustrating. Yeah, moving the cursor over the enemy hero breaks the abilities. It happened on Jenn too.
58. Not sure what happens but sometimes you simply take damage out of the blue without Jenn attacking you. Usually happened when I was hitting here with Q. I think she might be using Piercing Arrow herself with no FX.
59. The northeastern corner regens mana for some reason, near the house.
60. Annie's dash has a huge AoE. Even if you blink away you get damaged. Too many annoyances to enjoy the last battles.

Overall a neat action campaign. Needs more polishing (bug fixing, scripted fights tweaking) and to cut down on the repetitiveness (less grind in one map/chapter or at least spice it up).
High Quality

 

[ThinhHo]

Thank you for your review @deepstrasz , I appreciate it. Bows and Arrows will be better thanks to your review.
First of all, I can see why things could get very frustrating with the bugs you got.

Mevin's abilities all have dummy icons and tooltips missing. Mind Necrosis is OK.

Jenn's abilities are like Mevin's without proper descriptions and having dummy icons.

Raiden's abilities are tooltip missing and have the same girl dummy icons. Of course, Jenn's too. I guess it's a game patch version bug or something. However, it seems there's no FX from Jenn's first and second abilities.

Bugs like this (for Mevin and Jenn the map after) never occured when I tested the campaign before. And it happens frequently for you in these maps.

Same issue happens with Raiden, your spells get cancelled if you hover over him or something. I don't know the exact cause but it's just frustrating. Yeah, moving the cursor over the enemy hero breaks the abilities. It happened on Jenn too.

This is frustrating as well as it never happened when I tested the campaign. I can see it takes a lot of enjoyment out of playing this campaign.

These are the two biggest issues that really bother me. Blizzard made all of these updates in the past few years which made the game better and also broke a bunch of things.

Now I'll go to the specifics of your review:

Abra calls the razormane a kobold. Probably uneducated?

There used to be kobolds on this map. I replaced them with razormanes but forgot to change Abra's dialogue.

It's not clear where or how Annie knows of these forest(?) spirits(?) Enid and Gaia. I guess she encountered them first off screen after meeting Jenn?

Where did Enid and Gaia disappear?

Enid and Gaia were supposed to be only Annie's head. It was meant to be ambiguous at first as to who they are. There was a planned but unfinished quest in Chapter 4 implying that they are just Annie's imaginary friends, one represents the dark side, one represents the bright side. After that quest, it's clear as to why they don't show up no more in future map. But I never got to make that quest.

Not sure if intended but level 1 spiders run away from you when getting hit. Not all but most, especially those out of the eggs.

It is intended. Don't you get sick of all warcraft 3 units just charging at you and never letting you go until either you or them die? I changed it up a bit to bring new AI dynamics to those new-born spiders.

Well, I couldn't have known that saving would not be allowed during the Roland fight. Now I can't use any abilities, they simply cancel. OK, they started working after I died. But then they stopped again. I don't know if it has anything to do with trying to select Roland. Using Malevolent Chains on him also breaks the gameplay. I guess it also happens if you select the troops or hover the cursor over them too much.

That's a lot of issues in only a few sentences. I'll look into it.

In the second phase Roland doesn't do much of anything than move and attack. There's two more shooters which are brought down easier than the first time. Also, the enemy prioritizes Annie, Jenn being bonus DPS for Annie.

His AI broke apparently, I'll look into it as well. Roland was supposed to cast AOE spells all over the area and you have to dodge with your heroes' blink ability.
You can see in this video how this map was supposed to play out in my test play a few years back.

The northeastern corner regens mana for some reason, near the house.

It's actually draining your mana, but reforged doesn't have alternative animation where the mana is shown to be going vertically down so I just had to use the same animation with mana regen. The purpose of that was to prevent players from cheesing by hiding in the corner all the time. The bosses' AIs are not too effective when you're in the corner.

There's definitely Berserk vibes.

I never read or watch Berserk btw. Though DOTL and Bows and Arrows are heavily influenced by Dark Souls, one of my favorite games. And interestingly, Dark Souls was heavily influenced by Berserk. So maybe that was why you got the same vibe here. Though I'm not exactly sure what kind of vibe you're implying in this particular comment. In map 2, there was a grave paying tribute to Kentaro Miura, the creator of Berserk, who passed a way during the making of this campaign.

The rest of your review have a lot of useful bug report which I'll fix when I have the time.
Thank you again for playing. I'm glad you finally experienced it, even with the serious unintended bugs caused by Blizzard's updates.

 

[deepstrasz]

Spoiler

Enid and Gaia were supposed to be only Annie's head. It was meant to be ambiguous at first as to who they are. There was a planned but unfinished quest in Chapter 4 implying that they are just Annie's imaginary friends, one represents the dark side, one represents the bright side. After that quest, it's clear as to why they don't show up no more in future map. But I never got to make that quest.

I understood one was "good" and the other somewhat "mean" (depends on the perspective of undead or humans) but it definitely wasn't clear that they were imaginary. Question is, why did Annie have these hallucinations? To show that undead were human too?

His AI broke apparently, I'll look into it as well. Roland was supposed to cast AOE spells all over the area and you have to dodge with your heroes' blink ability.
You can see in this video how this map was supposed to play out in my test play a few years back.

Yeah, I can see. He definitely didn't do anything like that after Jenn came back too. Roland simply walked and attacked regularly.

I never read or watch Berserk btw. Though DOTL and Bows and Arrows are heavily influenced by Dark Souls, one of my favorite games. And interestingly, Dark Souls was heavily influenced by Berserk. So maybe that was why you got the same vibe here. Though I'm not exactly sure what kind of vibe you're implying in this particular comment. In map 2, there was a grave paying tribute to Kentaro Miura, the creator of Berserk, who passed a way during the making of this campaign.

Oh, that's a bit confusing xD Yeah, I found that grave and thought your inspiration was Berserk. I know of Dark Souls but haven't played any. I generally am not a fan of rinse and repeat games especially when you just memorize stuff and act in tandem with that. It's like you're being programmed or programming yourself somehow (martial arts is a better option as it at leas comes with health benefits). I prefer dynamic reflex developing games like some racing and shooter games instead.

Thank you for the reply and explanations. Sorry you have to fix stuff that worked before.

 

[d4rk.f0rce]

Bugs like this (for Mevin and Jenn the map after) never occured when I tested the campaign before. And it happens frequently for you in these maps.
This is frustrating as well as it never happened when I tested the campaign. I can see it takes a lot of enjoyment out of playing this campaign.

would it be possible to share the spell info for Raiden, as I am having the same tooltip-issues. Using macos with german language, in case that helps to narrow the problem down, playing with reforged graphics. btw, awesome campaign!! kudos

 

[ThinhHo]

would it be possible to share the spell info for Raiden, as I am having the same tooltip-issues. Using macos with german language, in case that helps to narrow the problem down, playing with reforged graphics. btw, awesome campaign!! kudos

Sorry for the late reply @d4rk.f0rce . I was sick and didn't get to use my computer to share the tooltips for Raiden's abilities. At this point, you may have completed the campaign. I'm glad you found the campaign awesome. If you haven't played the last map, I'd say that map was my favorite one and I was very proud of making it. I just hope you didn't suffer the same issue like @deepstrasz where hovering your mouse over bosses breaks the game.

Here are the tooltips as you requested.

	Banish	Map 6: Raiden's 1st Ability	A potent arcane spell that draws upon the mysteries of the ethereal realm. This mystical technique has been shared among various races and has become a coveted ability for those who seek to control the ebb and flow of warfare. Turns a non-mechanical unit ethereal and slows its movement speed by <ACbn,DataA1,%>% for <ACbn,Dur1> seconds. Ethereal creatures cannot attack, but they can cast spells and certain spells cast upon them will have a greater effect.
	Shadow Swap	Map 6: Raiden's 2nd Ability	In his ethereal form, Raiden wields unique magical abilities inaccessible to corporeal beings. His ability to phase in and out of physical existence is the catalyst for the existence of Shadow Swap. Instantly switches places with Jenn. After the swap, Raiden emits a shockwave, inflicting 200 points of damage to all nearby foes while Jenn simultaneously rejuvenates herself by restoring 30 hit points.
	Death and Decay	Map 6: Raiden's 4th Ability	Raiden's long journey of spectral existence has been one marked by powerlessness against the living. For the longest time, he could only observe and infiltrate, unable to directly affect the world of the living. However, as he delves deeper into the shadows and unlocks its hidden potential, a newfound ability emerges: Death and Decay. Damages everything in its area of effect by 4% of its base hit points per second. Buildings take 30% more damage. Lasts 30 seconds.
	True Sight	Map 6: Raiden's 5th Ability	An extraordinary ability possessed by ethereal ghosts and shades. These spectral entities have a unique connection to the arcane energies of the ethereal plane, allowing them to pierce through invisibility and illusions. Reveals nearby invisible units.

If you have any other feedbacks, I'm all ears!

 

[d4rk.f0rce]

Sorry for the late reply @d4rk.f0rce . I was sick and didn't get to use my computer to share the tooltips for Raiden's abilities. At this point, you may have completed the campaign. I'm glad you found the campaign awesome. If you haven't played the last map, I'd say that map was my favorite one and I was very proud of making it. I just hope you didn't suffer the same issue like @deepstrasz where hovering your mouse over bosses breaks the game.

Here are the tooltips as you requested.

View attachment 564691	Banish	Map 6: Raiden's 1st Ability	A potent arcane spell that draws upon the mysteries of the ethereal realm. This mystical technique has been shared among various races and has become a coveted ability for those who seek to control the ebb and flow of warfare. Turns a non-mechanical unit ethereal and slows its movement speed by <ACbn,DataA1,%>% for <ACbn,Dur1> seconds. Ethereal creatures cannot attack, but they can cast spells and certain spells cast upon them will have a greater effect.
View attachment 564692	Shadow Swap	Map 6: Raiden's 2nd Ability	In his ethereal form, Raiden wields unique magical abilities inaccessible to corporeal beings. His ability to phase in and out of physical existence is the catalyst for the existence of Shadow Swap. Instantly switches places with Jenn. After the swap, Raiden emits a shockwave, inflicting 200 points of damage to all nearby foes while Jenn simultaneously rejuvenates herself by restoring 30 hit points.
View attachment 564693	Death and Decay	Map 6: Raiden's 4th Ability	Raiden's long journey of spectral existence has been one marked by powerlessness against the living. For the longest time, he could only observe and infiltrate, unable to directly affect the world of the living. However, as he delves deeper into the shadows and unlocks its hidden potential, a newfound ability emerges: Death and Decay. Damages everything in its area of effect by 4% of its base hit points per second. Buildings take 30% more damage. Lasts 30 seconds.
View attachment 564694	True Sight	Map 6: Raiden's 5th Ability	An extraordinary ability possessed by ethereal ghosts and shades. These spectral entities have a unique connection to the arcane energies of the ethereal plane, allowing them to pierce through invisibility and illusions. Reveals nearby invisible units.

If you have any other feedbacks, I'm all ears!

Thank you so much, that is very helpful, I will definitely play until the end, now even more looking forward to the last chapter. edit: Seems like starting the chapter fresh from the campaign screen resolves the tooltip issue

 

[d4rk.f0rce]

Just finished the campaign, excellent piece of work!!!! The only thing that I find too difficult is the fight with Zander. I have no clue how to dodge the second spell, it is randomly hitting me, way way beyond the indicators on the ground. I am playing on normal difficulty, had to skip that fight as I tried probably 50 times and never got Zander below 50% hitpoints