Battle for Middle Earth: RISK (don't judge us yet)

[fris]

Motivation:

Since around when Risk Revolution 3.1 was the best RISK game on bnet there began to emerge these LOTR Risk maps that in all honesty sucked. Based on the Lord of the Rings: RISK game board, I don't not know, but the fact remains that these games are unbalanced, boring, and the terrain hurts the eyes to look at. Appalled at the fact that these representations insult the amazing Tolkien classic, my brother and I decided to try and create a Lord of the Rings RISK that would hold true to Tolkien's fantasy. Thus, we give you Battle for Middle Earth: RISK.

The Game:

We base this game off Tolkien's maps of Middle Earth - striving to make this map the best representation of his world as possible. We hope to offer two modes of play - [normal mode] & [adventure mode].

[Normal Mode] is just like any other RISK map before it with three basic units (rifle, knight, & siege), although, it will most likely be some sort of archer, knight, and some sort of siege that would the fit the time period.

[Adventure Mode] would run primarily like that of the LOTR: RISK game board does. For those that do not know, the game board has the fellowship's path to Mordor and periodically the fellowship will advance closer to it. When the fellowship reachs the end the game is over ans the person with the most points (gold, land, & units) wins. Adventure mode would also provide those special units differing from normal mode. For example: Trolls, Goblins, Orcs, etc...

Misc Info:

Terrain will be done completely in Ashenvale tile set.
To match the game board's "continent" colors, each continent will have its own terrian fog. This is quite cool when you are in Mordor having a black fog and seeing the land in a "dark" dead look.


This is the gist of the project we have set forth. We DO require assistance! I require no help in the terrain area unless any of you see that it could use more. What we need help in is the JASS involved in the actual RISK triggers and such. My brother is more adept in the use of WE triggers but Jass we are both hopeless. We would be grateful for anyone's help on the Trigger/JASS aspect of the map once I have completed the terrain of the map.

You may either contact me via email, aim, or this forum. Any help will be appreciated and acknowledged.

I will have images of some terrain posted in a bit.

Here are a few screen shots of some terrain I have sort of finished.






Now I know these are missing some environmental aspects and I do intend on finishing them. I just wanted to give you guys the feel of what the map is to look like. Oh and by the way, the barracks are due to change to some other building if we don't use those for the [Normal Mode]. Just put them there for markers of where the new buildings will be placed.

 

[Mini-Me]

You dont need any jass in creating a risk map. For risk triggers, open up an old risk map (yes they are unprot) and look how its done there. And its all in GUI, no jass requiret.

 

[fris]

I think some things we are wishing to put in the game require JASS, though I am not sure because i am a dunce in the area. Or just easier in Jass I am not sure. We wished to put some aspects of Devolution in there, but I can't tell when opening there trigger files which are normal GUI and which are JASS.

Oh and I have already opened up other Risk games, I am just avoiding triggers until I finish the terrain.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Your terrain rly reminds me of a RISK map .. make it different ..

 

[fris]

You confuse me. Could you specify so I could change? Plus considering I am making a Risk map...I cannot make any sense out of your comment.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Mh .. i will explain .. mostly a RISK map has average terrain .. and you are acctualy just making the same here what i see from the screenshots its nothing special .. i would like to see this be a special risk with some custom imported trees and envirements and houses with hobbits the eye of sauren the tower of saruman enz .. you can all find them or at least ask someone to create them for you .. thats what i ment .. this is the long version of my previous post

 

[fris]

alright cool.

I was planning on that just haven't found anything I really liked.

 

[Durgon]

Ive always enjoyed risk type maps, especially that China one where you could do all sorts of stuff. I wish you the best of luck on your project, and if you need any help with units I could defenitly help you out since i got some good knowledge on LOTR.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

alright cool.

I was planning on that just haven't found anything I really liked.

Search around the internet on war3files,wc3sear,hiveworkshop, or anything site like it surely you will find something that suits you!

 

[fris]

Thanks a bunch and I will get back to you Durgon, about units if I so need.

 

[Mini-Me]

Nice looking terrain is important, but remember also to leave a lot of free space. What I've disliked in some custom risks that useally there are small gaps, and its just impossible in late game to get your 50 unit army through without wasting time, and if attacked at that point, a lot of units.

 

[fris]

very true mini-me that it why it is nice that in this map units can cross over mountains not only the open terrain and bridges.

 

[Rui]

I'm glad someone is actually taking his time to make a good LotR Risk. You're right; I don't like those terrains, every terrain sucks more than the last one. About your terrain, I can't say much, you haven't showed much just yet.

In my opinion, you should make good fortresses, I don't want Isengard with some Stone Walls thrown around it. I think people enjoy good looking forts than just some random keeps with one or two doodads put around it.
Another suggestion is, make every fort (Helms Deep, Minas Tirith, Isengard, Erebor, Dol Guldur, Rivendell, Cirith Ungol, Minas Morgul, Edoras, Dunharrow, Lothlórien, Morannon, and any other you can remember) controlled by hostile with units to defend them. These forts would not be needed to own the region they're on, but if conquered they would grant an extra spawn, and of course, a good defence for the player.

Watch out for certain units, like Balrogs, Mumakils and Ents, we don't want overpowered beasts as we've seen in some games, where Mumakils striked down whole armies in a few attacks.

EDIT: And this topic would fit better in Project Discussion.

 

[fris]

I will put those ideas to use. Thank you Rui.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

EDIT: And this topic would fit better in Project Discussion.

Project dicussion is now named as project recruitement isnt it?..

 

[Mini-Me]

EDIT: And this topic would fit better in Project Discussion.

Not really. Its a project he is developing. The fact that he needs assistance in it is not the main point of the thread, therefore imo it can stay where it is.

 

[Rui]

I haven't noticed the name change. Anyway, keep the topic in straight line.

 

[fris]

Alright, I know I have been quite on this for a few days but I had school work.

So here is Eriador and I know you guys will probably suggest things to edit and stuff so lets here the suggests please. And those who wanted custom trees and such, none of them blended well with this particular area.

if parts of the mountains bug you don't worry, bits bug me too and I am too tired at the moment to make changes.

just noticed that this view makes the area look a lot more open than it usually does.

 

[VGsatomi]

There have already been LotR risk maps. None were particularly well made, so maybe this one will be different. Well, I think you should balance in some custom models, too, but not so much where it bloats the file size. In my opinoin thr Risk genre has been overused and immediatly people will think "*yawn* another risk map", like you already addressed in your topic title. Having generic wc3 units with LotR names though would be a bit boring. Lot of good LotR resources here. I recommend using some to get the map off the ground a little.

The terrain is still better then many other risk maps I have seen.
-VGsatomi

 

[fris]

We found plenty of lord of the rings models we will be using for units and buildings - the trees ,however, are harder to blend in.

 

[Rui]

Not bad. However, that is a small part of Eriador and Arnor.

I want to ask, is that Lindon anyway? Because the north & south look like Forlindon and Harlindon. If that is so, it would be great to have the Grey Havens, unless you're planning it for later versions.

 

[fris]

haha yes Rui. This map is based of of the Lord of the Rings Risk game board. The "continent" Eriador contains: forlindor, grey havens, lune valley, evendim halls, tower hills, harlindon, and the shire - all of which is shown there represented by the barracks of where they are.

this is at least according to the map on the Risk board. If it is missing some let me know and I will gladly add if possible


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so I have started to remove the barracks cause they look ugly and then I had an idea. If any of you have played ogre battle before the bases/towns are represented on the map as just that a town...just tiny. Here is a sample of Forlindor in this representation. I like the idea and look of it. I will gladly accept your comments. The only part I know may bug someone is the size of a normal units versus that of the town. I prefer to have all units there normal size and the towns smaller so that it resembles the feel of a map - pictures of towns instead of having the full town drawn out. It also has an older feel, which I like.




Oh and Rui I will have fortresses probably normal sized if people prefer this method of the towns and such.

 

[Rui]

Will you reduce the size and speed of units just for a bit, then? Because the Rifleman looks like a giant compared to the houses.
You could then have a command to lock the camera closer, if anyone wanted to see everything closer without actually having to type the command again and again in case you rolled up or down. And of course, a command to unlock the camera to whatever view the players like.

As for critter models, I think you should throw some of them out should the map get over 3 MB. Battle.Net's limit hosting size is 4MB, but still, there are many unpatient people, and until this project gets popular, I think it should get as many downloads as possible. Of course people won't want to wait an eternity to download a project that might not even please them.

Nice screenshots, anyway. I think Cardolan could also be considered Arnor's. Unless you're planning to make only Arthedain, Rhudaur and Cardolan and their regions to Arnor. Since the north, Gundabad and Angmar belong to Forodwaith.

 

[fris]

Alright Rui this question is more towards you seeing you have a more vast knowledge of the towns/cities of middle earth. You suggested that I have fortresses and such for the fortresses in middle earth - now on the game board they only show select cities and towns that are of significant importance the other place are just labeled by the territory name. Would you like to see the places listed of importance either have walls or some other territory bonus as you suggested with the fortresses?

examples of areas of importance:
grey havens
annuminas
harlond
hobbiton
bree
weathertop
etc.

Or should they resemble or hold traits such as to their status in the book?
Hopefully I am still keeping this in the category of map development and such.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

Firstly, this looks very nice, and I hope you have the commitment to finish it.

Secondly there are parts of the "mountain" terrain that are experiencing chronic spike syndrome. This is fairly serious in terms of degrading the visual quality of an otherwise beautifully done screen. Try using the "smooth" tool, it can really help you there. I usually "raise" terrain with a medium sized brush, go one size step taller, and "smooth" the terrain to create the pristine hills. I have found this works well, however, if you do not like that method, there are people who use different techniques. Ask around.

Thirdly, I am abhorrently against using custom doodads and models in a map unless they are going to serve significant use. A tree or base that is only used once isn't worth the space it takes up in the map file size (such as buildings like isenguard and barad-dur as seen in the resource section. After the map is finished, if there is enough space left that it feels worthwhile to add, then you should use such resources, but not before. The important thing at this point is to finish the terrain and start the units/triggers.

I do like your terrain, it is quite beautiful, if tiny. For reasons of gayness I advise not allowing "alliances" in your risk map, but should you desire to put them in, do NOT make the triggers yourself. The average "ally-unally" trigger sets are upwards of 264 triggers, (11 ally and 11 unally for each of the (12) players). Ask someone, I have them myself if you want!

Additionally I recommend using WEU (world editor unlimited). Google it if you don't know where it is, it will be around the third or fourth site. It allows you to use double the tiles, and access many hidden trigger functions (such that most functions can be performed without heavy jass).

In case you wanted the triggers here they are:

Simply unzip, load the map editor, go to triggers, click on "file" then "import" and find the wtg file that you unzipped.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

Also, lets talk about the possibilities of fortresses. The easiest way I have found to make rounded fortresses is to take a random unit, give it all 0 (or near nothing) stats for convenience, make it unable to move, and give it the "model" of a stone wall (the one without any end pieces). From there, place it on the map and edit each one so that they "turn" (edit the rotation) to form a solid looking wall. Then you can place pathing blocker doodads, and your wall is complete. I use a "scout tower" model for the gatehouse, give it two spells (usually something generic that I have made so that it does nothing) and have the gate open or close (through triggers) when either spell is cast.

Edit: Make the unit targeted as a "tree" or something so that it cant be killed (and change units so that they cant target trees, lol).

Here is just a little of what you can create doing this: (see attached images)

Another useful thing that you might consider is the "under the bridge" feature that can be attained via teleporters or waygates. By creating waygates (and the corrispondingly necessary rects for the triggers to work, you can allow units to travel "under" the bridge, as seen in the last screen.

 

[fris]

Wow! Thanks a lot man! Ha ha, yeah I noticed some of my mountains looking a bit pointy. Great stuff and thanks for the advice.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

Any updates yet?

 

[EviL_BuddhA]

The adventure mode seems allright but the part of the fellowship seems a bit odd beacouse they sort of cause events where ever they go i had an idea to interperet the fellowship in to the game and have all of the events... maby u could make like the battle of pelinor fields with models that look like ghosts and are un targetable and walkable... i dono it just came to mind ur map sounds good..

 

[Fulla]

Looking very nice so far.

Id also like there to be fortresses, as previously said.

- What exactly do you need a JASS'er for? the triggers are generally very simple, which GUI can handle easily.
- Id strongly recommend to not use ANY custom models/skins etc. initially. Upon releasing the map you want a very very low filesize and a custom loading screen (which takes up space) is more important IMO.
Models can always get added in later.
- I hope you go with a more 'war3' like enviroment. By this I mean on most RISK maps, the troops are mere cannon fodder, where you can often end up controlling hundreds at once.
I think it would be better to go more like war3 melee, where you control a smaller amount of units, which are fairly strong.

 

[fris]

School work has been crazy these past weeks with projects after projects so I haven't had much time to devote to the map. However, I plan to get rolling after this week is finally over.

 

[Rui]

That's good to hear. This topic often gets digged back to the second page.

Anyway, how will the regions work? Like Rhovanion, Eriador, Arnor, etc? I refer to granting extra spawns, extra resources, how will it be made.

 

[fris]

Well because I am basing this off the actual game board of LOTR Risk. Arnor ans such are the "continents" that provide the extra income. So I guess I will do that along with the amount of spawn they use from the game. I will have to read the rules again and run them by you guys and see how you like them.