AvP Extinction 2 v 1.72b

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Aliens vs. Predator Extinction 2
-Bratcipheo

Introduction:

"On a cold, distant planet, the war against extinction is on and your command skills will determine its outcome.
Control an Alien hive, direct a Predator clan, or lead an elite squad
of Colonial Marines and fight for the survival of your race."


Here is much more info about the game
with screenshots, strategy's and tips:
Here for more info's

Game style:
The game is very focused on competitive play and strategy, giving the player control of a lot of different unit types, each fitting another role and strategy, with counters for each unit.
You will battle for control of the few Atmo's placed around the map, being the source of income in some way or another, each race has it's weaknesses and strengths, it's up to the player to use those efficiently.
Up to four players can play against each other in either FFA or 2v2; there will only be 1v1 in the tournament though.
Unlike other maps, you don't choose your race once the game has started, but already when you've entered.
Undead – Aliens, Orc – Predator, Human – Marines; while nightelfs are nothing.

Marines:
The Marines are the race with the most firepower, dealing enormous damage in seconds.
Unfortunately they are also the slowest and have the fewest hit points and armor of the three races, making them incredible weak to ambushes and close range attacks. This makes the Marines an extremely defensive race, they can build barricades, sentry guns and resource producing generators, can teleport to atmos under their control, defending is their best tactic to survive.
Marines see far at day, but have limited vision at night, their unit supply limit is at 25.

Predator:
The Predators have the most hit points and versatility out of the races, since each predator can cloak and heal itself when having enough energy, each unit is more like an army itself. They have close range and long ranged units at their disposal and with their speed they exceed in hit and run tactics, the race that is always on the move and fights for honor, to kill the ultimate prey. They have medium vision at day, as well as at night because of their vision technology. Their supply limit is at 16 only, giving predators few, but very strong units.

Aliens:
The Aliens are a fierce organic race that fight in huge numbers for total domination, their queen being the head of the hive, constantly lays eggs that require organic hosts to evolve. They adapt incredible fast to their surroundings, creating tunnels and hiveweb that gives vision and nourishment. They've got the fastest units out of the races and can produce some of toughest creatures in the game, their blood is made of acid, damaging their foes when dying. The more they fight, the more DNA variation they receive and the stronger they get, each killed enemy is a potential host for a new alien; making them an extremely aggressive race and is played very offensively.
Their vision at night is very good, but limited at day, nearly every unit needs to get close to inflict any damage and most units are rather easily killed from afar; but they have the highest supply limit at 45 out of the races.



Changelog AvP Extinction v1.72b

-Fixed major bug


Changelog AvP Extinction v1.72
-----------------General---------------
-fixed bugs
-The rock at the ramp has gotten hp reduced from 6000 to 2000.
-All units give back 'build cost' when dying, from 20% to 30% more, making it
easier to rebuild armies and focus more on battles.
(exceptions are the hybrid aliens, which give points accordingly to the number of
atmo's controlled)
-Atmo Energy regeneration reduced by 30%, while maximum mana increased by 25%
and made the shield activation cost 200 mana and last 15 sec.
-Removed 'berserk' icon in the unit status.
-Added more upgrade and ability descriptions.
-Raw and Acid/fire damage still deals 150% damage to their prefered armor type, but
deal less to the other type, now 70% only, down from 75%.
-Atmo and Shrine mana regeneration aura removed permanently.All units do now
regenerate mana by themselfs.Units do also only spawn with 50% full mana, not 100%
anymore.


------------------Aliens----------------
-Remade the alien income system yet again, which means that aliens get less points
than before when having few atmos, but more points when controling more atmos.But
generally speaking, they're getting less than before.
-Drone close-range damage increased by 2.
-Praetorian damage increased with 25% and decreased attackspeed with 25%.
-Added sound to the drones headbite ability, whenever a headbite accurs.
-The warrior and predalien have both gotten their armor reduced by 1, but increased
the armor gain in their upgrade accordingly (by 1), making them more dependant on
the 'genome' upgrade than before.
-Carrier 'unlock' cost increased from 500 to 550.
-Reduced Queen in size.

----------------Predators-------------
-Brawler damage increased by 2.
-Added cloak detection for the Shrine.
-Vanguard does also kill targets permanently.
-Discmasters "Nano-edge upgrade" requires an Altar now.

-----------------Marines---------------
-Added upgrade discription for infantry, once they've been upgraded.
-CommTech's 'create baricade' ability has 50% mana cost reduction, from 50 to 25
mana.
-CommTech's 'Aurora control' ability does now slow the target longer than before, from
4 sec. to 10 sec. and from 40% slow to 60% slow.
-Removed the 'fusion generator' from marines.
-Introduced a new income system for marines.They'll receive points when attacking
the neutral camps and activating one of the four devices in these camps.The more
atmo's you control, the more points you receive when activating them.
-CommTech teleport ability cost is increased from 100 points to 150 points.



Changelog AvP Extinction v1.71
-----------------General---------------
-fixed bugs
-Increased neutral explosives aoe size by 100%, it's easier to use now.
-Atmo's have increased hp and have gotten the "Energy shield" ability.They regenerate
energy passively, which can be used for protection when activated.The more energy
stored, the longer it will protect against attacks.
-Added alot of upgrade ability discriptions.
-The third Atmo which is located between the base spawns in the animal field, does
now have weak neutrals as protection.
-Keep in mind that Marines, Queens, Ravagers, Shrines, Predguns and now also
Blazers do not create comatose units, but kill their targets permanently.There are no
corpse to impregnate or skulls to retrieve, so use these units wisely.

------------------Aliens----------------
-Most aliens can now hide and become invisible on hiveweb at night, blending in with
their surroundings.
(Exceptions:Queen, Ravager, normal facehugger, chestburster and Eggs)
-Close ranged drone damage decreased by 2, but added the "headbite" upgrade,
which deals 150% extra damage when attacking a unit from the back.Does only work
on organic units, aswell as adding +1 armor in the upgrade.
-Predaliens got the ability "Tough armor" when upgraded with "predalien genome", it
blocks everything above 50 damage, which means it cannot receive a blow higher than
50 damage.
-Warriors can now move while underground, enabling them to sneak underneath their
prey take them offguard.'Vanish' requires the 'warrior genome' upgrade.
-Hive node cost increased from 40 to 50, building time increased from 12 to 15 sec.
-Hive cyste cost increased from 350 to 450.
-Praetorians cannot detect invisible units anymore.
-Carrier damage and aoe slightly increased.
-Carrier has now also acid damage, inflicts 150% damage to light armored units and
75% damage to heavy armored units.
-Warrior and predalien "genome" upgrades cost increased from 700 to 750.
-Runner fire acid explosion has a new animation.
-Hivehole tunneling time increased from 8 to 9 sec.
-Trinary paracitism(3) upgrade for Drones and runners require a hive cyste now.
-Cystic spitting drone ability does require a hive cyste to work.
-Ranged drone attack range decreased from 700 to 650.

----------------Predators-------------
-The Blazer upgrade now has a blue laser animation and lasts twice as long.
-Hunter damage increased by 2.Hunters also have a new missile animation.
-Brawler armor increased from 4 to 5 and damage increased by 1.
-Spearmaster increased Hp from 450 to 500.
-Brawlers and Spearmasters have an increased chance of 95% to kill a facehugger in
mid air, instead of 90%.
-Ancients Bleeder blade buffed, instead of 4 dmg per sec. for 1 min. it is 7 dmg per
sec. for 35 sec.Also slows target for 25%.
-Predgun has stronger splash damage and splash animation.
-Hunter's "self destruct" upgrade requires an Obelisk now.
-Decreased the amount of points predators gain from alien skulls.
-Blazer decreased Hp from 800 to 650, but increased damage from 110 aoe dmg per
sec. to 140 instead.It burns through resillience.
-Hydra has been reworked:Unupgraded it now deals 22 damage per attack, 5 targets at
a time.Upgraded 9 targets.With long range and fast attackspeed, it will kill countless
masses of enemies, it's weakness are few strong units with ressilience.

-----------------Marines---------------
-Sentry gun supply cost increased from 1 to 2, but added the aura "sentry protection"
which aids every nearby marine with 1 additional armor.
-CommTech has an increased attack range by 150.
-CommTech's 'Aurora control' also gives CommTech's +50 hp in addition.
-Infantry's grenade launcher aoe decreased from 140 to 130.Damage reduced from 35 to
15.
-Smartgunner attack range increased from 900 to 1000.
-Smartgunners 'dirty smartgun' upgrade buffed, instead of 4 dmg per sec. for 1 min. it
is 9 dmg per sec. for 30 sec.
-Synthetic cost increased from 225 to 250, has increased hp regeneration and +1 more
armor.
-Synthetic Motion tracker has decreased range detection from 1000 to 500.The sentry
gun still has 1000 range cloak detection.
-Infantry's 'heavy assault kit' upgrade requires a communication center now.
-Snipers flare range decreased from 4000 to 3000 and cd increased by 5 sec.


Changelog AvP Extinction v1.70
-----------------General---------------
-fixed bugs
-Buildings have 30% increased hp.

------------------Aliens----------------
-The eggsack will now produce 3 eggs simultaneously in the beginning,
giving aliens a better start.
-Runner damage reduced by 1.
-Drone damage increased by 2.
-Warrior onslaught genome cost increased from 450 to 750.
-Warrior and Predalien upgrades do now require the
warrior and predalien genome "unlocking" upgrade first.
-Queen evolve cost increased from 300 to 400.

----------------Predators-------------
-Ancient upgrade cost decreased from 800 to 750.
-Hydra single target damage increased by 5.

-----------------Marines---------------
-Income via generators decreased by 20%.
-Marines start with 400 gold, instead of 550.
-Sniper upgrade cost increased from 600 to 750.
-Sniper hidden cooldown increased with 15 sec.
The increased movementspeed while hidden is also
decreased from 50% to 40%.
-Sentry tower hp increased by 100 and regeneration increased.




Changelog AvP Extinction v1.69
-----------------General---------------
-fixed some bugs
-reduced filesize.
-Left side of the map can now in addition to activate
water (against cloaked predators) also cut the power
instead, which means darkness.Big advantage for
aliens, and disadvantage for Marines.
-Marines and ranged predators now have a slower
turn rate, while some of the smaller aliens have
gotten a faster, which exposes marines etc. to
attacks from the behind.
------------------Aliens----------------
-Carrier has splash damage now.
-Queen does not stun anymore, but does still pushback.
-Runner virulence lvl 1 reduced slow.
-Runner dmg decreased by 10%, attackspeed increased by 10%.
-Drone armor increased from 2 to 3.Damage is also
slightly reduced.

----------------Predators-------------
-Predgun 15% faster attackspeed
-Hydra armor type changed from Light to Heavy
armor.
-----------------Marines---------------
-Synthetics can now steal energy from other units,
when upgraded.This is good against predators,
especially against the upgraded Vanguard, as he
relies on energy to hold up his shield.
Have fun

-Bratcipheo

Keywords:
Alien vs. Predator extinction aliens strategy race strategic marines avp
Contents

AvP Extinction 2 v 1.72b (Map)

Reviews
19:34, 3rd Aug 2010 ap0calypse: Approved
Level 2
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
15
So you finaly put this on the hive... thats good... you did a nice job whit the decription...
AND THE TRAILER WAS ASWOME!!!!
 
Level 5
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
45
That knockback bug you're talking about, is a very rare bug, only happens in single player if i remember correctly, but ill get it someday, that bug.

I dont understand the green boxes thing.

Glad you liked it cheatsloth^^
 
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Level 1
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
501
ah thanks, thats a nice feature.

Brat boy, you've just earned yourself your first Rep!
I'm giving it away so easily because I've played a similar version of a AvP man a long time ago and the only word that can describe the feeling of playing it was "orgasm"... Now excuse me while I play this baby!

*Expect a review*

Edit : Since there are too many bugs, glitches and so on, I cannot fully review this map, but I can name the problems the map is currently facing :

- Aliens : If the Queen attacks anything before laying eggs, any of the spawned units (Facehuggers and so on) will be pushed to the side, much like the ability to knock-back units (Queen) ... has a pretty large AoE and happened frequently.

- Predators : when self-upgrade as predator, you practically lose your gold or "pride points" (whatever they are) because by clicking on these upgrades, the icon disappears and no visible change occurs. Predator that has the ability to ignite units (flame thrower) can't damage buildings and so forth.

- Marines... just seem like Alien food. No comment.

Edit #2 : Every time you collect a skull with a predator, A PURGE SPELL ICON appears in one of the empty slots...what is this ?
 
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Level 5
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
45
Game looks really good. However it still requires fixes. I hope you will release new version soon.
And these green/purple boxes are just fails. If you imported model wrong etc.

To tell the truth, i still don't know what you mean about these green boxes, i haven't experienced any troubles with models, at all.If you would care do show a screenshot?Im updating the game all the time, so ill look into problems like these asap.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
9
I don't know if its relivant anymore. But just about a week ago I played this map with two others (clan ARK if it rings a bell). We had a recurring issue where when we started the game either there would be more than 1 of the same race or someone would get stuck with nothing (except for that 1 pod structure... forget the name). Little details with the "nothing". The player who would get the "no units" would have the night elf hud. (considering that for predator you have orc, alien is undead, and marines are human).
 
Level 1
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
3
Things that should be overlooked:

Here are a few things I found:

-If say... 5 Ravagers jump on a Atmo, it dies before changing factions.

-Blaziers/Blazers w/e they're called, should be able to damage buildings with their flames..

I also think that you should make the creeps spawn faster, and the hostile human/predator encampments to respawn too, if they don't already.

A capacity for the Queen should also be made because it's annoying if one dies the person can just keep making another Queen after the other dies and prolongue an already lost game. you should add a command for Carriers like, -carry on/off. And that Drones/Runners should'nt just take the eggs randomly and place them around unless you order them to.

EDIT:

Humans are WEAK and I mean weak in the beggining, any Predator/Alien player can rush them and they die easily. You should make the Gunship have an auto-attack versus enemy units, and make the humans more maneuverable in the early phase of the game. I played against my friend and he had 12 Hunters before I had 5 Infantry units and two Atmos.
 
Level 2
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
20
Dragonheat... that means you suck -.- . By the time my friends where making their first units i had already taken over nearly the entire map and wasn't letting them get out of their start positions....
 
Level 1
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
3
Really? I only play good as Aliens, but I found humans fairly weak in -my- opinion.

EDIT:

Oh, and maybe you played agresively. I played defense the game I lost against predators, I tried to built up units to still have a good military force in any battle. Remember that not everyone plays like you and he/she won't make the same gameplay as you do with humans.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
45
Little details with the "nothing". The player who would get the "no units" would have the night elf hud. (considering that for predator you have orc, alien is undead, and marines are human).
Yes, thats why you choose the race before the game starts, while you still are in the "lobby".

If say... 5 Ravagers jump on a Atmo, it dies before changing factions.
Really?You managed to kill one?That would indeed be a problem.
-Blaziers/Blazers w/e they're called, should be able to damage buildings with their flames..
If thought about, its a bug, but im not sure if i should change it, since they're so strong against light armoured groups of units.

A capacity for the Queen should also be made because it's annoying if one dies the person can just keep making another Queen after the other dies and prolongue an already lost game. you should add a command for Carriers like, -carry on/off. And that Drones/Runners should'nt just take the eggs randomly and place them around unless you order them to.

You have to remember that you only can do that if you have Praetorians, which means you need to spent points for the upgrade, for praetorian itself, and the now 3-400 points to get a queen.So its not an easy thing to get.
Shrines cost 1000 points to revive for predators, while its a bit cheaper for aliens.This is because the killing player gets 750 points for killing a queen, therefore feeding the killer in the long run.

Humans are WEAK and I mean weak in the beggining, any Predator/Alien player can rush them and they die easily. You should make the Gunship have an auto-attack versus enemy units, and make the humans more maneuverable in the early phase of the game. I played against my friend and he had 12 Hunters before I had 5 Infantry units and two Atmos.

I know som players that could fight 1v3 with humans and win with ease.
When i said you play marines defensive, i meant their fighting style.When against close ranged units as aliens, you want to get all the atmos(atmo control is the key to winning the game) and protect the atmos, you want to fight at the atmos.you want to stand still, behind barricades while the enemy is coming.CommTechs can teleport the whole army to an atmo if they want, use this for moveability.
Against predators, play aggressively and get some Synthetics, they can see cloaked units.If they mass spearmasters, do the baricade thing, else just control atmos, and tech up and kill.(Blazers own infantry, be careful with that.)
And also, the upgraded selfdestruct from hunters, tend to own marine armies when massed immensely, thats where you really wanna get SADAR as humans, as they knockback them constantly, they wont even get close.

Give me a pm or something if you want some fun matches, as showing you their potential should be more convincing i guess^^
 
Level 5
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
45
Edit : Since there are too many bugs, glitches and so on, I cannot fully review this map, but I can name the problems the map is currently facing :

- Aliens : If the Queen attacks anything before laying eggs, any of the spawned units (Facehuggers and so on) will be pushed to the side, much like the ability to knock-back units (Queen) ... has a pretty large AoE and happened frequently.

- Predators : when self-upgrade as predator, you practically lose your gold or "pride points" (whatever they are) because by clicking on these upgrades, the icon disappears and no visible change occurs. Predator that has the ability to ignite units (flame thrower) can't damage buildings and so forth.

- Marines... just seem like Alien food. No comment.

Attacking anything with the queen beforehand, does not trigger the pushback bug.It can also happen as marine or predator.And i've only gotten this bug on single player, can you confirm this?Its the bug i've had much problems with, it could be solved with the new version, but im not betting to much on it.

Im a little confused about the self-upgrade as predators, since...all nearly all units have this feature.Marines do, even aliens have it too.When you click it, it costs points and it is upgraded; with effect.What upgrade had no effect?Brawlers do critical on upgrade + movementspeed.Hunters selfdetruct on death, spearmasters damage return and block, discmasters faster attackspeed etc.
I know the bug with the blazer, i might not change it, since it seems beneficial for balancing its overpoweredness.
"and so forth"
?


It seems some of you have problems with marines, i was actually concerned that they were overpowered.
When playing against aliens, its absolute crucial you do not use "move" but "attack-move" they will then auto attack anything in their path (facehuggers).
Minigunners are also the unit of choice, as it does auto target(triggered) and kill facehuggers with its fast attackspeed.
When dealing with nests or larger enemy groups, get some flamethrowers at the front, they wear masks, making them unable to get facehugged, while they deal aoe dmg which burns all the small facehuggers.
Those are the tips i have against alien.

Again, i invite anyone on a game to demonstrate^^.

Read my map development thread for such additional info.

EDIT:
The purge ability you mentioned is the ability the skull taking is based on, and triggered by.The "ripping" itself.
 
Level 1
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
501
Attacking anything with the queen beforehand, does not trigger the pushback bug.It can also happen as marine or predator.And i've only gotten this bug on single player, can you confirm this?Its the bug i've had much problems with, it could be solved with the new version, but im not betting to much on it.

Im a little confused about the self-upgrade as predators, since...all nearly all units have this feature.Marines do, even aliens have it too.When you click it, it costs points and it is upgraded; with effect.What upgrade had no effect?Brawlers do critical on upgrade + movementspeed.Hunters selfdetruct on death, spearmasters damage return and block, discmasters faster attackspeed etc.
I know the bug with the blazer, i might not change it, since it seems beneficial for balancing its overpoweredness.

?


It seems some of you have problems with marines, i was actually concerned that they were overpowered.
When playing against aliens, its absolute crucial you do not use "move" but "attack-move" they will then auto attack anything in their path (facehuggers).
Minigunners are also the unit of choice, as it does auto target(triggered) and kill facehuggers with its fast attackspeed.
When dealing with nests or larger enemy groups, get some flamethrowers at the front, they wear masks, making them unable to get facehugged, while they deal aoe dmg which burns all the small facehuggers.
Those are the tips i have against alien.

Again, i invite anyone on a game to demonstrate^^.

Read my map development thread for such additional info.

EDIT:
The purge ability you mentioned is the ability the skull taking is based on, and triggered by.The "ripping" itself.

As I have no time to post the "full story" behind my comments, I'll just post this comment for later editing (tomorrow). Stay tuned.

~ Got delayed ~

2nd Edit : Can't find one or more persons to test the map with and when I do, they play for 5-10 minutes then give up (people aren't that bright)... probably going to wait for the new version, but I CAN confirm the knock-back bug. It happens very often and tends to be annoying. Also : I'm pretty sure the "purge" ability that triggers the Predator's "collect skull" skill is not supposed to show as a 3rd party icon... it should just never be there, PERIOD! Try to fix this. And when I said upgrades "don't work" I meant that by clicking the icon, I should have some form of certainty as to what my character / unit does, and how can I do so if the icon ability for what I'm upgrading it for, disappears ?... Suggestion : Place any and all potential upgrades into one unit / building (such as Queen : you click one icon and a hole menu of upgrades opens)
~ When upgraded, the unit or unit groups that benefit from the upgrade should have a "passive" or "active" icon in its "repertory". Ex : I upgrade -Self-Destruct- when my Hunter dies, passive icon appears telling me "When this unit dies, it will deal -X- damage in a *insert number here* AoE" ...and so forth. This is all I can say for now. Please consider these lines.
 
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Level 5
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
45
~ When upgraded, the unit or unit groups that benefit from the upgrade should have a "passive" or "active" icon in its "repertory". Ex : I upgrade -Self-Destruct- when my Hunter dies, passive icon appears telling me "When this unit dies, it will deal -X- damage in a *insert number here* AoE" ...and so forth. This is all I can say for now. Please consider these lines.
you are right, i will add this to them.Some units have, but im afraid not all.



Ill try to fix the knockback bug.
 
Level 1
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
1
Hmm

Love this map, it's completely awesome. Tho i found something a bit Overpowered with marines. If you play them right as we do, you get the big tanks after like 8-10 minutes and not just one of em, tons of em, instant win. all you have to do is build lots of these golden boxes which provides "points" and also play really aggressive, not defensive as the tooltip says :) I and some of my friends have built up many strategies to try to beat this one. but it's plain impossible. And also the predators are way to expensive, you can nuke em down in the beginning, even as alien. Aliens can get lots of mobs, but the weakness there is they die too easy. really, Marines is just plainly Overpowered if you know how to play them, predator is also a big weakness to all of the teams because of the amount of points needed to even get a few predators. easy kill :D Well, what im trying to say.. The map is not as balanced as it can be if you play marines as you're "supposed" to :)
 
Level 5
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
45
@LostSoul

I know its not balanced, balancing it just gets keeping harder.
The worst part is that, peoplewith different skills are testing it, so i can't change balances based on their experience alone, i gotta test it myself.
I therefore would very much like you to try this strategy on me, with me trying the different races.Do you have a ggc account?Give me a pm when you can play some games.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
15
I really like this map but i think you have to nerf the income of marines by one of these ways:
1. reduce their atmo income massively so they rely on building power generators and guarding them.(maybe improve generator money for this a bit or make them cheaper)
2.take out the power generators what would make them more aggresive in playstyle
3.reduce power gen income by 200+ 150 per atmo and decrease atmo income a bit that wouldn't change playstyle much but makes their money gain not that extreme.
forgot this one: 4. buff other races income but i think this could lead into a fairly fast game play what would be bad for this alrdy pretty quick game in my opinion

at the moment marines can gain far to much money by playing aggressive/base rushing in 1on1
maybe also because they can speed spam units at start lol (550 gold = 3 marines = far to much vs predators if your army is split off your shrine and aliens can't gain mass facehuggers that fast)

It's also annoying that only the marines got scouts (mobile invisble detectors)
the predators got only the predgun which is far to immobile to take over this role and the aliens got only buildings to detect invisible units.
noticed that while playing vs a marine which just spammed snipers with windwalk to kill my blazers -.-
I think you should grant every army a T2 unit with detect ability
For predators maybe the spear master and later the ancient and for aliens maybe the runner or warrior and the preatorian or carrier
 
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Level 5
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
45
Thank you for the feedback,

i've changed quite abit in the balance now, but i didnt want to change it to much at once, but rather do some weak changes that works towards a goal, instead of going back and forthward all the time.
 
Level 1
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Messages
501
Thank you for the feedback,

i've changed quite abit in the balance now, but i didnt want to change it to much at once, but rather do some weak changes that works towards a goal, instead of going back and forthward all the time.

Maybe that would be true, but how about adding some "eye-candy" in the next update ?

- Predators' projectile animation (and I'm not being specific, but they're all an eye-sore) could be changed, per instance. An example : "Blazzer" attack animation : Does he really need the -finger of death- animation?
Why not a simple, aesthetic stream of flames ?... and the Hunter shoots -Frost Novas- , what's up with that ? (I don't see why the models have those awesome "snipe-lazors" if their attack animations have nothing to do with it. Maybe actually make the Hunter fire rocket-type projectiles, to stick to the movie concept of the Predator itself ?)
Also : I feel like the self-destruct ability should be triggered at will too , with a 3 second delay, for example (while still keeping the "blow up after death" passive)

- Aliens : would just rule if they could cannibalise each other or eat another (dead) unit. This ability would destroy the corpse gradually and regenerate the alien's hp , mana, or both. This could also be useful when removing unwanted corpses so nearby "facehuggers" won't automatically jump on the nearest target. (something I personally found annoying when trying to get Pred-aliens, because my facehuggers had a nag for ridding the mamoths on the way...) ; Then , of course, if aliens are such "night lovers" , you could customize the night-elf ability to go into a stealth mode when not moving at night, with a fade-in, fade-out effect / delay. (This would be well complemented by a "pounce" ability that would brake stealth and attack the nearest enemy in a radius, but you be the judge)

In addition, a "Head-bite" or Tail-strike ability would be welcomed as well!
Suggestions : Head-bite - When an enemy is at "X" hp (I'd say 100) health-points or lower, the target is instantly killed and the alien regenerates "X" health points (I'd say 25 or so). This can be an active skill or auto / passive one, depending on user prefferance.
Tail-Strike (passive) : The alien has a "X" % chance to penetrate / strike the target with its tail and ( here, you can go wild) do extra bonus damage / stun the opponent for "X" seconds / damage and slow attack speed / etc.

* The only problem with these two spells / abilities mentioned above is that you'd have to create some realistic attack-animations to fit them, unlike the "Cannibalise" one (basic "consume" ability that Ghouls have, if I'm not mistaken)

* Oh, while I'm ranting : visuals keep the game appealing and all, but I'd appreciate it if you could actually import some alien sounds to make the game more atmospheric. (I don't think you need examples as to what I mean. You know, basic alien sounds, when they're either hit, injured, dying, those kind of things. And don't freak out about the over-all file-size of the map, they'll barely be noticeable. You might also like to add specific taunts to the other races as well)

- Humans : Gotta "<3" those Firebats xD. Not to say this would be cheating, but S][C's marines have the "Stim-pack" ability ; if you know where I'm going with this, there's no need for me to go on right here, heh...
Also : Could it be possible to create a device, either an upgrade or a destructable unit / structure that can sense aliens' and predators' movements in the fog of war from a set distance ? (as seen in the movie, blinking white dots that change frequency the closer the target gets. The "beacon" effect is what I'm interested in)
* This would add a feeling of adrenaline to the human side and make the game more dynamic.

... I've just realised my post is catching epic-proportions and I don't want to sound overly-enthusiastic about a potentially great map with enough room for improvemnt, so...I'll just stop here.

~ If you feel my post didn't bring any good suggestions on actually improving the game-play, tell me, but I personally believe all the things stated above would increase the experience of an AvP map (especially yours). Don't forget, if you'd accept any of my ideas, it's up to you to chose how it would eventually turn out and what units would benefit most from them. Good luck!
 
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I've just realised my post is catching epic-proportions and I don't want to sound overly-enthusiastic about a potentially great map with enough room for improvemnt, so...I'll just stop here.
You're right, i guess ill start my epic scaled answer here then.^^

Predators' projectile animation (and I'm not being specific, but they're all an eye-sore) ....and the Hunter shoots -Frost Novas- , what's up with that ? (I don't see why the models have those awesome "snipe-lazors" if their attack animations have nothing to do with it. Maybe actually make the Hunter fire rocket-type projectiles, to stick to the movie concept of the Predator itself ?)
i've got major problems with that aswell, i've actually changed it back and forth several times in the past before i accepted the current.
I don't believe that anything is better in warcraft itself, i might need to download a spell animation.Or do a shot with an imported explosion.
rocket-type projectiles?Im sure it was more towards plasma, which i tried to make with ice typed spells.

Blazzer" attack animation : Does he really need the -finger of death- animation?
Why not a simple, aesthetic stream of flames ?...

Well, if you watch a youtube video of ps2 AvP Extinction, you'll notice that the Blazer shoots a laser that sets everything on fire.He doesn't actually shoot fire, its a laser.I thought about making it another colour when upgraded...like blue..
I feel like the self-destruct ability should be triggered at will too , with a 3 second delay, for example (while still keeping the "blow up after death" passive)
I'd then walk into a passive group of marines and let them selfdestruct.The difference is that, before the player got warned that somewhere on the map he is attacked, and when checking he sees that hes killing hunters and can react.With it being triggered he just know his army has died, its to overpowered.

Aliens : would just rule if they could cannibalise each other or eat another (dead) unit. This ability would destroy the corpse gradually and regenerate the alien's hp , mana, or both. This could also be useful when removing unwanted corpses so nearby "facehuggers" won't automatically jump on the nearest target

A great idea at first, but i realise that it would destroy the way aliens function, i want to make hiveweb as important for the aliens as i can, which is also hard enough.If they regenerate in another way aswell...no, it woudlnt fit so well.

Then , of course, if aliens are such "night lovers" , you could customize the night-elf ability to go into a stealth mode when not moving at night, with a fade-in, fade-out effect / delay. (This would be well complemented by a "pounce" ability that would brake stealth and attack the nearest enemy in a radius, but you be the judge)

It's a good idea.But every unit?Im afraid it would be to overpowered.Hmm, i guess when its night and they ALSO are standing on hiveweb, it would be fine.
Ill try to see if i can trigger that.

n addition, a "Head-bite" or Tail-strike ability would be welcomed as well!
Suggestions : Head-bite - When an enemy is at "X" hp (I'd say 100) health-points or lower, the target is instantly killed and the alien regenerates "X" health points (I'd say 25 or so). This can be an active skill or auto / passive one, depending on user prefferance.
Tail-Strike (passive) : The alien has a "X" % chance to penetrate / strike the target with its tail and ( here, you can go wild) do extra bonus damage / stun the opponent for "X" seconds / damage and slow attack speed / etc.

The problem with these abilities is, they just sound nice, while in real life, they are just more damage.Maybe with a bit extra animation, but else, its nothing new.
But....with that said, i'd like headbite, extra damage when attacking from behind.
Yeah, that would be nice, but which unit?It's always hard to figure out.Maybe drone, runners, praetorians and predaliens.
Warriors have aoe and do also inflicht aoe acid damage when they die, would'nt fit.
Also, it sounds a bit like hero abilities, and im considering to add heroes at some point, but only if it ever should feel balanced, since balancing with heroes also is so much harder.

Also : Could it be possible to create a device, either an upgrade or a destructable unit / structure that can sense aliens' and predators' movements in the fog of war from a set distance ? (as seen in the movie, blinking white dots that change frequency the closer the target gets. The "beacon" effect is what I'm interested in)
* This would add a feeling of adrenaline to the human side and make the game more dynamic.

Hmm yeah, the original game actually had that.Predators had something similar with heat detection and units that got attacked by some aliens had spores along with them for a while, showing where the were...i might add this.

Oh, while I'm ranting : visuals keep the game appealing and all, but I'd appreciate it if you could actually import some alien sounds to make the game more atmospheric. (I don't think you need examples as to what I mean. You know, basic alien sounds, when they're either hit, injured, dying, those kind of things. And don't freak out about the over-all file-size of the map, they'll barely be noticeable. You might also like to add specific taunts to the other races as well)
try version 1.52-1.59 on epicwar, these versions actually had exactly what you want.
But the big problem with those type of files were, that it was global.Always.You cant change it and make it local, i looked through forums for long.
Also sometimes in some versions, they kept on to stop working sometimes.
Right now, i have only 3 sounds, which a global.Rebirth of a new queen, building a hivetunnel and when selfdestruct activates.But the rest of sounds, i just couldnt let them be global, it was hardcore annoying, everyone appreciated them gone.
 
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Oh boy, you've got some things mixed-up :

~
rocket-type projectiles?Im sure it was more towards plasma, which i tried to make with ice typed spells.

- First off, I said "rocket-type" projectiles, because such attack animations exist (default ones, but you could use imported ones) and a "plasma" attack, though more realistic and true to the series, are harder to emulate. And if you know the actual definition of "plasma", it has nothing to do with ice and that's why , in my opinion, it just doesn't fit the predator.

~
Well, if you watch a youtube video of ps2 AvP Extinction, you'll notice that the Blazer shoots a laser that sets everything on fire.He doesn't actually shoot fire, its a laser.I thought about making it another colour when upgraded...like blue..

- Again : You misunderstood - I'm not saying the Predator doesn't use lazors to ignite its targets, I was specifically against the "finger of death" animation which looks plain silly... also I've noticed it doesn't fit the real damage done to enemies as well (you probably noticed that too)

~
I'd then walk into a passive group of marines and let them selfdestruct.The difference is that, before the player got warned that somewhere on the map he is attacked, and when checking he sees that hes killing hunters and can react.With it being triggered he just know his army has died, its to overpowered.

- It's either a language barrier, or I'm a bit slow tonight, since I don't really understand the quote above. Eventually explain it to me a little clearer via a P.M. , would you? Thanks.

~
A great idea at first, but i realise that it would destroy the way aliens function, i want to make hiveweb as important for the aliens as i can, which is also hard enough.If they regenerate in another way aswell...no, it woudlnt fit so well.

- Why do you always miss the big picture ?! T_T - I'm not an ability junky, but I like the practicality of choosing if I want my facehuggers to become ordinary drones, pred-aliens, etc. - Without this, out of a whole control of facehuggers, I'd probably be left with 4, maybe 5 to morph in soldiers or anything else, just by walking through a creep-filled field. But yeah, maybe this isn't necessary.

~
It's a good idea.But every unit?Im afraid it would be to overpowered.Hmm, i guess when its night and they ALSO are standing on hiveweb, it would be fine.
Ill try to see if i can trigger that.

- Jesus Christ! - I clearly stated at the end of my post that it's up to you if you'd want to apply any of my suggestions, and if so, to the units or unit groups YOU think would be wise! ; So it's okay for a predator to become invizible at ANY given time,be it night or day (as long as it has enough mana) , but Aliens don't have the luxury of being cloaked (though they're motionless and at night) even in specific conditions ? ...wow...don't know what to say to that...

~
The problem with these abilities is, they just sound nice, while in real life, they are just more damage.Maybe with a bit extra animation, but else, its nothing new.
But....with that said, i'd like headbite, extra damage when attacking from behind.
Yeah, that would be nice, but which unit?It's always hard to figure out.Maybe drone, runners, praetorians and predaliens.
Warriors have aoe and do also inflicht aoe acid damage when they die, would'nt fit.
Also, it sounds a bit like hero abilities, and im considering to add heroes at some point, but only if it ever should feel balanced, since balancing with heroes also is so much harder.

- ...Why aren't you keeping an open mind ? ... Pred-aliens have the upgradable ability to regenerate half of the damage they deal, this costs 750 gold if I'm not mistaken... why would my idea be "just more damage" ? '_' ... making a unit or units more versatile isn't in any way a bad idea. Think of it this way : make the ability COST, as an upgrade for one aline-type or more. Want an ability? BUY IT! This would keep the game balanced and have a higher-replay value. What do you think ?

~
Hmm yeah, the original game actually had that.Predators had something similar with heat detection and units that got attacked by some aliens had spores along with them for a while, showing where the were...i might add this.

- Good to hear! Let's see how it turns out! ^ ^

~
try version 1.52-1.59 on epicwar, these versions actually had exactly what you want.
But the big problem with those type of files were, that it was global.Always.You cant change it and make it local, i looked through forums for long.
Also sometimes in some versions, they kept on to stop working sometimes.
Right now, i have only 3 sounds, which a global.Rebirth of a new queen, building a hivetunnel and when selfdestruct activates.But the rest of sounds, i just couldnt let them be global, it was hardcore annoying, everyone appreciated them gone.

- I have to agree, most people would be pissed to hear some sounds loop over and over again... but I didn't say add 100 custom unit sounds or anything. Hell, I'd love to know when there's any action going on, and an alien scream or a predator growl would be a great sound that there's something happening on the map! - gets my blood "pumped up"
If I'm not being convincing enough and you think custom sounds when attacking are a bit too much... a little moan, or something when a unit dies? (It's strange how people aren't annoyed when zergs and marines get slaughtered and every individual unit screams its lungs out in Starcraft, but people are so sensitive in W3)

~ Well... I guess that's it...waiting for your reply.
 
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Well, ill look into better animations for the blazer and plasma.

It's either a language barrier, or I'm a bit slow tonight, since I don't really understand the quote above. Eventually explain it to me a little clearer via a P.M. , would you? Thanks.

Heck, i didnt even understand so well myself after reading it again.
It's just overpowered, thrust me.

Why do you always miss the big picture ?! T_T - I'm not an ability junky, but I like the practicality of choosing if I want my facehuggers to become ordinary drones, pred-aliens, etc. - Without this, out of a whole control of facehuggers, I'd probably be left with 4, maybe 5 to morph in soldiers or anything else, just by walking through a creep-filled field. But yeah, maybe this isn't necessary.

Then you play aliens wrong.Don't think in the term: that you're nearly filled up with supply, which is why you'd rather have predaliens, than some extra drones.
You have to get all the corpses, no matter what, you should never run out of facehuggers.Drones and Runners, never really wins you the battle for real, but they damage and give you income.Just send them to the enemy without your main army, they may kill or damage something, and when they die they produce many points, your biggest income actually.You can "store" comatose units on hiveground now, i always get the triple chestburster split and use it as income. For frequent attacks, because their life doesnt matter.

- Jesus Christ! - I clearly stated at the end of my post that it's up to you if you'd want to apply any of my suggestions, and if so, to the units or unit groups YOU think would be wise! ; So it's okay for a predator to become invizible at ANY given time,be it night or day (as long as it has enough mana) , but Aliens don't have the luxury of being cloaked (though they're motionless and at night) even in specific conditions ? ...wow...don't know what to say to that...

They can become invisible, because they're balanced towards that.Without it, they'd be weaker.The reason why the same ability for aliens would be overpowered is this:
Predators have a fair amount of strong ranged units, and marines only have ranged.Aliens are trying to get close to their targets, if marines wouldnt have baricades they woudlnt stand a chance against aliens in most fights.But invisibility for aliens would mean that they could come into close range and attack from there immediatly.Runners and warriors deal acid damage on death, something which marines often dont feel because a good portion of these aliens allready die before they get close to their targets.
If aliens were invisible on hiveweb, players would fear hiveweb more aswell as alien players using it more.That is what i want.

Why aren't you keeping an open mind ? ... Pred-aliens have the upgradable ability to regenerate half of the damage they deal, this costs 750 gold if I'm not mistaken... why would my idea be "just more damage" ? '_' ... making a unit or units more versatile isn't in any way a bad idea. Think of it this way : make the ability COST, as an upgrade for one aline-type or more. Want an ability? BUY IT! This would keep the game balanced and have a higher-replay value. What do you think ?
Because it sounds flashy, but just is upgradeable damage.Like there allready is.I admit that headbite and tail attack would be good names for upgradable damage.

I have to agree, most people would be pissed to hear some sounds loop over and over again... but I didn't say add 100 custom unit sounds or anything. Hell, I'd love to know when there's any action going on, and an alien scream or a predator growl would be a great sound that there's something happening on the map! - gets my blood "pumped up"
The problem didn't arise when people fought, but when they fought with neutral creeps etc.You knew what your enemy did and it became confusing.
 
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I noticed a while back that you said you might have heros if you get the map balanced enough, i was thinking maybe the heros could be like a specialized unit, like an alien queen could become a pred-queen? giving increased health, 25% lifesteal and the ability to get more health through fighting (like the predaliens in the game? and would it be possible or OP to make that for the normal predaliens, i thought that was an important part of them)
 
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Good heroes would be:
Clan Leader:
A bit like the predators of the movies.
He is well equipped and knows his weapons.
He should be agility type and should have skills like plasma shot,disc throw,cloak (who thought about that?),self destruct or plasma rocket barrage should be ultimates.
He would be a good agility Hero.

The Commando:
A well trained Marine equipped for every possible situation.
He is a pretty tough guy and fast enough to scout for the army.
He should have skills like shoot rocket launcher,grenade,use minigun (searing arrow spell),orbital strike (ulti)
the grenade should be AoE the rocket launcher not

can't think of a good hero for aliens right now >.>
maybe something like a gene modified experiment
but i think this game could be moar fun without heroes they would ruin it abit espicially because predators are alrdy much micro and aliens are moar macro than watch out for your units
it would make the game less noob friendly

oh and I noticed a bug at 1.69 (as far as i know not changed yet) the upgraded marine flamethrowers (maybe also unupgraded) are perfect teamkillers because the AoE damage hurts allys
 
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Yeah, i had the idea to make heroes, they would be like this:

2 type of heroes for each race, a defensive and an offensive.

Predators:
Wolf.
Close range:Shuriken, aoe.Normal damage is also aoe.His ulti would be an avatar.+cloak.
Scar.
Ranged:Spear, singletarget pushback, netgun with damage, invisible + extra speed.

Marines:
Offensive:
Aoe rockets, Dmg aura, fast movement speed, 2x times attackspeed ultimate.
Defensive:
Group heal, armor aura, slow movementspeed, maybe something with traps.bombs.

Alien.
Defensive:
Young predqueen.
Lays eggs in killed units, creating aliens on the battlefield.Aoe dmg, it also gets stronger per kill.

Offensive:
Nethead.
Invisibility with movement, huge backstab. Critical and miss chance. Acid spit slow.Maybe jump?

Those were my ideas.
Also, i'd like only 1 hero per fight, and not both.Your hero should represent your playstyle.
 
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Oh i got good names for the human heroes:
Dutch for the offensive hero
Ripley for the defensive one

classic names for classic heroes :eek:

Oh and you should make ATMOs have 100000 hp and you have to reduce them to 99% of their max HP to conquer them.
They should be undestructable.Or make them atleast respawn if they die

Oh guys and if you want i can host some games of AvP Extinction for you :eek: want to train for the tournament and it's hard/bad to play with ppl which dunno the map just PM me
I play at Northrend
Nickname:
Zoppojr.


pretty IMPORTANT BUG: dead aliens are still under player control which means (for predators) no trophy if you made your army using attack move because your soldiers kill the already dead bodys lol

Edit: Ranged Drones should gain a slight nerf because they got the same fighting stats as melee drones but they got the first strike bonus and they are much better at aiming single targets whats very annoying for predators ;....;
 
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My first post and i really want to review this map
in 1 word:AWESOME
esspecially for AvP fans like myself,the Alien lifecycle and the predator 1 is scripted very well
And now with the gameplay,well i saw no bugs with it,only minor ones,but it is a map with very great gameplay
Well i admit that at the first time you need to read the help (f11) but after 1 or 2 plays,this map can be really enjoyable
And again,you saved me from buying a PS 2 :D

And nethead?you mean Gridalien?sorry but that's how i heard of him,its that alien from AVP1 wich was netted by a pred but eventually escaped and killed it but with the net mark on its head right?
 
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Oh i also noticed that alien holes spawn the troops even if the hole got killed (bug?) pretty annoying because you can't stop the attack and they can easily base rush you


(duh double post >.<)
 
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it usually was a mob spawning at the summoned hole after that here came nothing anymore.
And pls nerf the ranged drones and do something about the dead alien bug i lose much money because of that >.<
You don't know how much anger you gain if you killed the dead body of that alien queen which would grant you 5000 gold ;....;
 
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okay great :D
but find a way to make ATMOs unkillable because for me it's a great tactic versus marines to decrease their income by killing their main ATMOs and their G.ATMO lol
As i said maybe grant them 100000 HP and make them change their user by losing 1000 HP (1%)
 
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