AOS + CardGame

[Lord Raszul]

hi
it's quite some time since i've been active in the forums and in wc3 in generall.


foreword
But I have long thought about creating a map which has a couple of unique features as well as one which brings a fresh air to the wc3 mapping comunity.

Originally I thought about creating a map which truly generates a random terrain, contains all 4 seasons and allows players to play within a huge rpg, including savescodes, dynamic quests and epic battles - all generated dynamically by a couple of quite complex triggers.

But even though I had already layed out the basics for the terain (heigths, rivers, mountains, valleys and basic textures) I found it not worth the effort of creating thousands of lines of codes just in order to create a map which lags for several minutes at the ingame map creation and therefore will most likely never be played by a wide audience.

Having thought long and played many maps I found AOS and Card Games to be the most interesting. Even though I do like TDs and Hero Lines every once in a while, I decided not to create one of them - I had once and both might have been a success if I had finished them. Maybe I will someday.

Considering my own preferences and my capabilities as a mapper and scripter I decided to ask a friend of mine who helped me with most of my projects - wc3 or not - before.
We agreed together to create a map for which we share the work. He is quite good at teraining, capable at modeling and can do quite good scripts even none to advanced - he still prefers the GUI.
Nevertheless we agreed on making this map together. He will do the terrain while I'll do the scripting and triggering.

But enough talk of my plans. I wanted to post my idea so that you can think about it and tell me what you like on it and what parts I can improve and/or change.


idea
Now to the Idea I had.
The map will basically be an AOS with most of the normal features AOS-Maps have.

• 2 Sides
• Automatically Spawned Creep Waves
• Heroes to turn the tides

The usual stuff - as I said.

But in addition there will be CardGame elements.
The players won't be able to buy items. Instead each hero brings along his/her own equipment from his/her former live. These special objects can be enchanted and some of them even bring their own enchantments into the game from the beginning.
In order to make these items easily accessible I decided to make them 2nd and following heroes who cannot move, attack or die (the live and revive as the hero does) on their own. But the can be enchanted or grown new abilities and effects.
These items are the most potent way to effect the game without cards.
Each hero is able to choose from cards matching the site he/she is fighting for. In addition there are cards which are available to all heroes and some which require insight into deeper pathes of magic which is only available to certain heroes and some only of these special heroes have choosen certain abilities.
Each hero is able to draw from the cards he/she has already aquired. Whenever he/she uses a card it is put into his/her graveyard (a special region). From there cards are only returned when the hero dies as well as by special events and abilities.

Each hero will be able to interact with the raging battle by playing the cards as well as by using his/her own abilities.

In oposition to the usual flow of AOS maps, on this map the armies won't simply be spawned. There will be villages. In regular intervalls each side sends a armed group to each of its villages and gatheres villagers (recruits) as well as weapons for these recruits in addition to gold (tribute, taxes).

The heroes won't get an income as usual - the will be payed every morning (evening for the undeads). They will receive a fixed amount based uppon a basic value + a sum based uppon the heroes level. In addition there will be payments for the heads of slayed enemies (wood) but these are also required for the mightier spells... therefore think well before selling them. Maybe the card might bring the win or a descent advantage while the money won't...

Another feature other AOS-maps (and CardGame maps as well) don't have are dynamic quests.
There will be small sidequests which enable the hero who fullfills them successfully grant certain unique abilities and cards.
These quests are small and might go by unnoticed: there might be a peasant who is attacked by a couple of creeps somewhere barely in sightrange of the lanes, or a trader with a symbol above his head requesting guard for his passage to the next village.


summary
These are the most important features my map shall have. There might be other features as well, but right now I'm not that certain of which ones that might be.
Nevertheless I'd like to hear from you what you think about this concept and which parts I can improve uppon.

- Lord Raszul

 

[Zovc]

I really like this idea of yours, I think I'd enjoy playing it more so than AoS.

Just a suggestion, but you should probably not call 'cards' cards, that in itself can discourage people from taking interest in your project.

Have you every played Magic: The Gathering Battlegrounds? It was a neat game released for Xbox and PC, it was an interesting rendition of MTG in a real-time manner. Perhaps you could draw some ideas from that game.

I think it'd be interesting to have certain cards spawn units for your side on each interval in addition to what they normally do. For example, the game starts with each site summoning footmen every 30 seconds, I could cast a spell, call to arms, for example, that would make my side also spawn militia on each cycle. This might be a bit unbalancing, and it could have so many waves that it spawns militia before the effect fades.

Also, be warry of how involved of a role your heroes actually have with the battlefield, part of what makes many card games so interesting is the fact that you don't actually influence the battle, thing things you conjure do (...in MTG, at the very least).


For the record, the way I picture the game working is for each (player-controlled) hero to be in his or her own "imaginary box," where items are randomly spawned, mana potions, intelligence tomes, and tomes of experience are in this mixture as well. The items spawned here (save the aforementioned ones) all have mana costs, you use these items to cast spells on the battlefield.

 

[Lord Raszul]

thanksfor your reply.
I've been thinking about a couple of the things you mentioned for a while already.

I want to include the cards into the game in a way that fits to the game-worlds "physic" and story. I could call them spellscrolls - but where would they come from? or memories - but that is not magical enough. Maybe i'll call them "spells" or "sorceries" or something like that and explain it like

"the energies required to cast a spell are so strong that they whipe the spells structure from the wizards mind while they are getting cast. only the tiniest spells can be reused without having to relearn them. Nevertheless wizards have rescently managed a mechanism to remember their spells more easily - they have cast them as runes onto gems and other crystals. Hovever those gems are costly and therefore they have cast multiple spells onto a single gem - which couses the gem to bring a random spell to the wizards mind instead of a specific one..."

this would be an explanation - I'll shorten it but that might be the core of it ^^


As to MtG: battlegrounds - i own that game and intend not to take to much from it - maybe only it's very basic core elements. (but random cards - not fixed spells)



I'd like the heroes in my map to interact quite much with the game itself. But most of these interactions are either coused by their passives (auras, etc) or by their spells (cards). Most of the abilities heroes (and their equipment) can learn focus on playing and improving cards.


I hope this explains a couple of the questions you might have had.

But there is another thing i want to add:
the only units that can cary items are non-hero units.
if they are spawned ones, they'll get their items from their sides storage.
If they are summoned, they might be summoned wearing some items already - but even if not there will be "summoned equipment"-passive-abilities which summon items into all own summoned units inventories - or replace the existing ones if the new ones are better.

- Raszul

 

[Zovc]

Okay, I was just putting my two cents in, I thought about what I said in a post afterwards, and I thought it might be interesting to make a map like that for myself.

I'm basically running this by you at the moment, I intend to take 'your' Card-Battle idea. I thought I'd be neat to take MTG:Battlegrounds and throw it into Warcraft 3. I'd basically be taking the Card-Battle mechanics I mentioned in my previous post, and casting out the AoS elements you're talking about. I never was a fan of AoS games, although I am interested in this one.

Assuming you do okay me taking this idea, I might not start on this project, right now I'm working on my CTF map. Perhaps once I get a good bit more done with my current project I'd start on this.

 

[Lord_of_sausage]

Very good idea, but i agreewhit Zovc, an AoS should not have cards, call it RuneTables or something like that ^^
Nice idea for the spawn system, meking NPC's much more intresting
But, when you say quests - how do you then want the heroes to complete them, if they cannot move?
Also, for a nice effect, make the heroes stand on a hill in front of their town, whit a nice view over the battleground ^^

 

[Lord Raszul]

thanks for your two answers.

allowance: granted
first I'm giving my ok for anyone to take my idea. I'd like to get credits, but if you feel you've changed enough, there is no need for them.

now to the map:
I'd like the heroes to act exactly like AOS-Map-Heroes.
BUT: they can't buy items. instead they draw their runes (cards) into their inventories. Becouse they need items, i decided to give each hero a "starting equipment". These items (represented by heroes) can be upgraded, enhanced etc with new and/or improved abilities.

They do not do well in battel - they have a hard time taking out more than 1 creep on their own (without cards). But they can summon creeps on their own, enhance them and effect other units and heroes with their runes (cards)

The heroes are the mightiest force on the battlefield. But as soon as they are ambushed and their magic is cut of they are as good as helpless.


One of the more inteersting specialities is probaply the spawns. The sides spawn only seldomly (1-3x per day(living)/night(undead)) but when they spawn the waves are huge (undeads: ~30+ units/lane)
These giantic waves allow the heroes to add units to the waves by using special runes (cards) as well as gives a perfect oportunity to increase the size of the waves by massively spawning creeps on their own.

In order to counter these massive waves each tower is able to attack multiple units at once. (1st by having a multi-attack on their own and 2nd by getting items with the phoenix-fire ability which attack even more units - but these items need to be bought first)

- Raszul

 

[Lord_of_sausage]

verry nice but add some LoaP style in it, so you can take a walk etc in your town, and do quest, talk whit NPC's and maybe? get a job? where you can get cards or money?

 

[Hawk07]

Sounds good and fresh! Looking forward to playing it!

 

[~Void~]

I want the ace of spades so I can throw it at people like that guy in Daredevil does.