1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. The poll for Hive's 12th Concept Art Contest is up! Go cast your vote for your favourite genie!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Travel to distant realms and encounter scenes unknown to the common folk. The Greatest of Adventures is upon us with the 8th Cinematic Contest. Join in on a fun ride.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The 18th Icon Contest is ON! Choose any ingame unit and give him/her Hero abilities. Good luck to all.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Contestants are to create a scene set in the Stone Age. Come and see what you can come up with. We wish you the best of luck!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Colour outside the lines! Techtree Contest #13 is a go. The contest is optionally paired.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. Greetings cerebrates, our Swarm needs new spawners that will have numerous children. Join the HIVE's 31st Modeling Contest - Spawners and Spawned! The contest is optionally paired.
    Dismiss Notice
  9. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Anyone knows about stackings (critical, bash, block)

Discussion in 'World Editor Help Zone' started by JFA, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. JFA

    JFA

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    406
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    3
    Resources:
    3
    question 1: There are item they have a 2x damage 20% chance.
    If someone purchases this item 2 times , their hero how much percentage deals how much damage

    question 2: i have a critical strike ability with 25% 2x critical
    if i will puchase item with 20% percentage 2x critical, my hero how much percentage deals how much damage

    question 3: there are item they have 50% chance to blocks 50 damage, if someone purchases this item 2 times how much percentage to deals how much damage

    question 4: i have a damage block ability with 50% 50 damage block
    if i will puchase item with 50% percentage 50 damage block critical, my hero how much percentage blocks how much damage

    question 5 and question 6 is Bash ability, same as the 1 and 2 or 3 and 4

    i really wanted to learn that.

    And example i have a 50% evasion ability and there are item with evasion ability 50%, how stacks this items ?



    ok ok really i wanted thanks everyone who tried help me but everyone talked about different things i want to replace question with pictures

    I have a 3 items and 1 ability and those ability and items based on Hardened Skin

    If i have a Flesh Skin Level 4 after than i will purchase Iron Plate
    1-)skill and item will stack ?
    2-)if yes, how can i calculate, only i wanted to know formula

    If i have Mithrill Plate and i'm picked Armor of Bladebane
    1-)item and item will stack ?
    2-)if yes, how can i calculate, only i wanted to know formula




    Flesh Skin and Iron Plate
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Mithrill Plate and Armor of Bladebane


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  2. Raven0

    Raven0

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    878
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    I dont' have time to put em' all in a calculator right now, but the abilities act independant of eachother and can stack. However if two critical strikes go off on the same hit only the one acquired first will run through.
     
  3. ap0calypse

    ap0calypse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,780
    Resources:
    2
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    Q1: 20% to deal double damage AND 20% to deal double damage (if the first one fails, the second one can still activate).
    The two can activate at the same time, but only one will actually hit.

    Q2: 25% to deal 2x damage AND 20% to deal 2x critical.

    Q3, 4: ideam above.


    Basically: the value never changes (2x damage will remain 2x damage, this can never change), the only thing that changes is the percentage.
     
  4. Lich Prince

    Lich Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Messages:
    724
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    It's like simply having a second chance.
     
  5. defskull

    defskull

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    7,978
    Resources:
    17
    Spells:
    17
    Resources:
    17
    I think it will stack, DIMINISHINGLY
    There are ways to calculate them
    It's NOT a perfect addition
    Like 20% chance and 20% chance on the same unit will give a total of 40% chance, it doesn't work like that
    It stacks diminishingly (not perfect addition)
    Like 20% + 20% = 33.63%
     
  6. Vunjo

    Vunjo

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    977
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    1: 2x 20%-2x. Which means that hero will have 2 chances, which is NOT 40%.
    2: 20%-2x + 25%-2x
    3: 2x 50%-50 DMG, again, won't stack
    4: Soz can't understand the other part =)
    5 , 6: So is the result same as crit. It CAN happen more times, and it CAN deal more damage, but stun will be the same.
     
  7. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,476
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    Critical strike and bash roles function the same way and stack perfectly. However only 1 can ever proc at the same time. Thus having 6*10% chance will mean you get 6 chances to role a 10% critical strike. Due to how chances stack, this does not give you a 60% chance, the chance is 100 - the chance of none of them to pass.

    Evasion does not stack at all. The highest chance to evade will always take piority while all lower ones will be ignored. For example, if your demon hunter has a talismin of evasion getting level 1 evasion will be a waste of a skill point as the talismin already gives far more than level 1 does. Like wise level 3 evasion makes the talismin completly worthless so it has to go to another hero or be sold.

    Chances are not accurate. Many DotA players noted how some of the critical strike and evasions were not true to their set chances. At lower values it does not mater (10% is pretty close to 10%) but apparently at values like 75% you have a considerable lower chance to hit.
     
  8. ap0calypse

    ap0calypse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,780
    Resources:
    2
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    In addition to this, I have also done some testing and noticed this:

    Note: I only tested this for critical strike.

    • Percentages below 2.49 never hit, they equal a critical strike of 0% (at least, this was the case after 8.400 hits, not a single crit with 2.49% or lower).
    • The actual percentages between two critical strikes with 7.49% and 7.50% chance to hit were exactly 5% apart (7.49 turned into 5.000% after 1000 hits, 7.50% turned into 10.000% after 1000 hits).

    Important part:
    I think that, from this data, we can derive that the percentages for (at least) critical strike are rounded up to the nearest 5%.

    Thus: 12% is the same as 10%, 43% is the same as 45% and 97.5% is the same as 100% (I tested the last one as well, which also seemed to be true after 1000 hits).

    I find this pretty important data actually, as nearly all maps with heroes (without a custom damage system) therefore contain incorrect data.
    AoS's (such as DotA), RPGs, hero defenses, etc - anything that uses the critical strike ability with a percentage that is not dividable by 5 is incorrect.

    Side-note: 7.4% and 7.8% will both appear as 7% in the tooltip, however their percentage is - in fact - 5% apart from eachother (being 5% and 10% respectively).
    Additionally, this could be the same for bash and other percentage-based spells that are actually percentages (endurance aura works, because it has decimal numbers instead of percentages, such as 0.12 instead of 12%).
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  9. Vunjo

    Vunjo

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    977
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Wow, if that is rly true, then I think that Warcraft sucks hard. How did you manage to test it? 8400 hits??
     
  10. ap0calypse

    ap0calypse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,780
    Resources:
    2
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    Create a unit with 1 chaos damage and has max attack speed (0.01), give it a crit that deals double damage (percentage varies with the tests I did).
    Create another unit with a lot of HP, doesn't have any armor and cannot flee.

    Now place 10 of both units on the map (attackers owned by you, the lots-of-HP-unit owned by the enemy).
    With a few simple triggers (unit takes damage event), you can check whether a unit took 1 or 2 damage, in case it took 2 damage, the crit activated.
    With a modulo (if total amount of hits mod 100 == 0 then), you can show the statistics every 100 hits (which goes really fast actually).

    I just waited it out a little :D

    I also tested with multiple crit chances, multiple crit values etc, but those weren't really interesting ^^ (just that 2x 20% crit is indeed about 33%).
     
  11. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,476
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    The maximum attack speed I discovered was 0.08 or atleast a simlar value.

    On the DotA allstars forum I remember seeing someone post a graph on how the real chances varied with expected chances. I believe the end result was that the error became massive at near 90% but at 100% it always procced.
     
  12. Just_Spectating

    Just_Spectating

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    7,023
    Resources:
    46
    Models:
    11
    Icons:
    9
    Skins:
    26
    Resources:
    46
    Q 1: algebraically it has a 4% chance that both will hit at the same time.
    therefore it would be like 36%
     
  13. ap0calypse

    ap0calypse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,780
    Resources:
    2
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    Well, I was just trying to say "as fast as possible" (as I never tested the maximum attack speed before :S).
    And you can try out my experiment if you doubt it.

    That would be correct indeed (I couldn't recall correctly, but now you mention it... :D).
     
  14. Urwaldbewohner

    Urwaldbewohner

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    99
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    about stacking crits: It can stack, just try it use 2 different crits(you have to) and then if both work the both will activate mean 1 damage normal first crit 2 damage second crit 4 damahe for exampls w3 even shows so.
     
  15. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,476
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    No it does not, only one role can suceed at a time.
     
  16. Vunjo

    Vunjo

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    977
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Many crits can be done at the same time. Check this picture (sorry for big picture with tons of white color on it xD)
    [​IMG]

    In this picture, you can see Double Crit. Number of crit (red numbers with !), are:
    12 and behind it, is 6. Blademaster has 3 damage, and 3 critical abilities. Each with 2x Multiplyer, but chances are 10,15 and 20%.
    So, it is possible to make more crits.:goblin_yeah::goblin_yeah:
     
  17. Lambdadelta

    Lambdadelta

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    720
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Unsure but this seems relevant.
     
  18. JFA

    JFA

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    406
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    3
    Resources:
    3
    i wasn't here for a few days and i see everyone talked about different things. i'm totally confused now :D
     
  19. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,476
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    Vunjo, did you actually check if the damage was done at all? It still does only 6 damage, despite it saying 12.

    I just tested on a blademaster with his normal crit at max and 6 items with 100% crit for 2 times damage dealing atmost 120 damage a hit without crit.

    400 appeared on the attacks for the crit damage. The damage dealt was 240 approximatly, which is as if only 1 crit procced.

    It seems the bug is that it shows 2 crits procing and displays compound damage but in reality only 1 of them is counted and that is the damage used.
     
  20. ap0calypse

    ap0calypse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,780
    Resources:
    2
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    I'm sorry, JFA, I'll sum it up for you :D

    Chances round up to the nearest 5%:


    All spells with a real percentage and not a decimal value (real percentage: 50.00 instead of 0.50, the decimal form) round their percentage up to the nearest 5%
    Thus a critical strike of 33% will return a critical strike of 35%, a critical strike of 2% will return a critical strike of 0%.

    Stacking passive abilities:


    Critical strikes cannot stack damage, I don't know where the previous guy got that from (truth be told, I couldn't see the floating text because it was continuously spammed).
    A simple damage detection for two 2x crit only resulted in a 2x crit, and not a 4x crit (which would happen if they both activated at the same time).
    I tried changing the patches as well, without result.

    Calculating chance for multiple passive abilities:


    If you've got two critical strikes with the same damage multiplier (e.g. x2), then to calculate the chance that you get a critical strike, you must first calculate the chance both of them activate at the same time.
    This is quite easy to do, let's say you've got a 30% crit x2 and a 40% crit x2.
    The chance they both activate at the same time is 0.30 * 0.40 = .12 (12%).
    Then you've got to add them: 30%+40% = 70% and substract that 12% from it: 70% - 12% = 58%.
    Another example: two 95% crit 2x's = 95% + 95% - (95 * 0.95) = 99.75%

    I hope you got all of that :D

    (By the way, in my last calculation, 95 * 0.95 was derived by multiplying one percentage with the other decimal value - this is so you immediately get a percentage instead of a decimal value like in the first example).