[Altered Melee] Ancient Empires (Working Title)

[TaShadan]

Spearmen/pikemen have bonus vs horses. Siege vs structures. I don't want artificial bonuses like heavy rock/paper/scissors. Unit speeds, skills and stats should define roles more that counters. You can check more on the combat system at first post and discussion all over the thread. Still open for suggestions ofc.

ah sorry didnt know that. I also think that there shouldnt be too strong hardcounters in games.

 

[BronzeOregon]

Just so you know, the Romans shouldn't have a strong swordsman until mid-late game, as that was when their longswords were first issued. They also had a battle line, with light troops up first, then medium troops, and finally, heavy spearmen, to grind the foe to dust. But in essence, my complaint is to the swordsman heavy issue.

 

[TaShadan]

I know models are not that important but you could use this model as a priest http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=109925

 

[huy60vn]

How is the project going?

 

[Pson]

ah sorry didnt know that. I also think that there shouldnt be too strong hardcounters in games.

Yeah i believe it makes for easy balance, but it's overused and I wanna try something else and more realistic. This page has some nice advice that inspited me to a point.

I know models are not that important but you could use this model as a priest http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=109925

Could use that one, yes.

Just so you know, the Romans shouldn't have a strong swordsman until mid-late game, as that was when their longswords were first issued. They also had a battle line, with light troops up first, then medium troops, and finally, heavy spearmen, to grind the foe to dust. But in essence, my complaint is to the swordsman heavy issue.

I think i got it pretty good. Early legions had 4 infantry ranks:
1200 Velites - Skirmishers
1200 Hastati - Medium/light swordsmen. Poor people or new recruits fought there.
1200 Principes - Heavy Swordsmen. Kinda rich people who could afford more armor or experienced soldiers fought there. (Those were more or less armed as late legionaires)
600 Triarii - Veteran spearmen. Reserves of the legion.
Plus the Equites, a few of supporting cavalry for the wings, i think 300 or 300 for each wing.

As I have it Hastati promote to Principes by dealing kills and Principes to Triarii. Triarii are not traineable at all, only promotion can give them, since you can't recruit a veteran from the start. This leaves romans without early or mid game spears in numbers, but it's kinda ok since their military is powerful anyway and they can overcome cavalry with tough footmen in supperior numbers. Plus Romans very often had a real weakness against cavalry heavy armies so this choice depicts it.

Romans used no longsword. They had some kinds of Greco-Italian swords (those where short or medium at most) which they replaced with the Gladius Iberian Shortsword sometime in the 3rd century BC, which was more effective for their fighting style.

Then during the late game, they get their famous hollywood legionaries, with marian reforms. Those replace the early/mid melee infantry and are a tougher form of principes with some extra upgrades. Some auxiliary units, kinda weak for late game but usefull for various army combinations and support roles.

If you worry that the romans are too op (if they are a bit balance will fix this) comparing their infantry to the scythian's one, don't. Scythians have the weakest infantry of all factions. There will be factions with better early and mid game infatry than the romans, and even some with better late game. However these will often be subject to unit limits. After all, most factions had elite corps who could outmatch roman legionaries. The power of Rome mostly relied on being able to field large numbers of good warriors, while most other civs around there had a mix of weak, average, good and great troops.

 

[Pson]

How is the project going?

Working on the Celt faction and various fixes for the next version. Check some posts above, I found some issues with your mesh system, can you fix them? If you can't I skip it for the next version until someone helps to fix it.

 

[huy60vn]

Ok. I can fix them. But we need to talk with visitor messages. If we post here, the mods can -rep us because we spam :/

 

[Pson]

I'll be away for a short vacation till Monday. Then development will continue with the next version coming within the week.

In the meanwhile:
-I've almost finished the Celts (Gauls), an infantry heavy but mostly well rounded faction that features a unique rush tactic featuring cheap and fast moving "Celtic Hound" war dogs (kinda inspired from Zergling rushes). Celtic units, structures, Techs and AI are ready, only lacking some minor visual adjustments.
- Some visual bugs are fixed, like the attachment and the mana foundain aura issue.
- A changable weather system is implemented as an early version. Might update it to give bonuses and debonuses to certain units according to the current weather.
- Some trigger issues are not fixed yet (birth mesh for structures lacking animations - disabled until updated, AI Faction selection when some computer players are unassigned - seems a bit hard for my limited trigger skill, Victory/defeat message - Can't get this to work). If someone could help with either of those issues, I could use the help. Also if someone could check my triggers for efficiency (as well as find out what causes an occasional crash) would I be greatful.
- Minor unit balancing is done (slightly nerfed ranged infantry damage) plus other various small additions, fixes and adjustments.
-As always I'm looking for more suitable models/modeling help.

Thanks to the many people that have helped so far, I'll be back soon

 

[huy60vn]

I'll waiting for you. Have a nice day on vacations. :>

 

[TaShadan]

Maybe you could use this trigger for victory/defeat
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...rev=search=custom%20race%20system&d=list&r=20

 

[Pson]

Maybe you could use this trigger for victory/defeat
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...rev=search=custom%20race%20system&d=list&r=20

Thing is I'm a complete Jass noob so I'm trying to stick with GUI, unless someone can implement this for me.

 

[Pson]

PRE-ALPHA 3 RELEASED

NEW FEATURES

THE CELTS (Gauls) with AI

Being the third civ released, The Celts are a balanced faction with a slight focus on infantry. Their playstyle offers some different options that require a little more micro, with some active abilities replacing auras, granting bigger but temporary bonuses. They also feature a weak, cheap and fast moving wardog unit that can be massed in the early game for somewhat Zergling-like rushes.

Celtic Faction Info

The Celts are the not the strongest or weakest on any field. The bulk of their forces are their various infantry types, but Cavalry and missile units aren't particularly lacking. Their buildings are slightly weaker than average but also construct a bit faster.

Infantry: Strong. Most unit types and many upgrades.
Missile Units: Average. Most unit types with some upgrades.
Cavalry: Average. Most unit types with some upgrades.
Economy: Average. Nothing special nor lacking.
Defenses: Weak. Structures build faster though.
Siege Weapons: Weak. Only Rams but many units can pillage.
Navy: Weak. Only Boats, however they have increased base hitpoints.

Bonuses:
- Farms are limited to 5 instead of 10 but most other buildings give a small population bonus.
- Celtic Hound (War Dogs) are trained from farms. They are relatively cheap, fast moving early game units, very effective at scouting, detecting hidden units and raiding. Like all carnivore animals, they deal more damage to damaged units. They have very few upgrades though so their combat effectiveness declines as human soldiers get weapon and armor upgrades.
- Most buildings have 25-30% less hit points but also construct 25-30% faster.
- Melee Infantry move 10% faster.
- Most Melee units can pillage
- All units have +200 acquisition range.
- Heavy Cavalry gets a warcry ability which increases the attack damage of nearby allies.
- Woad Warrior (Elite Unit). Heavy infantry with large attack, good hit points and low armor. Deals extra damage when heavily hurt. Can demoralize nearby enemies. Can get cleaving attack with upgrade.
- Warrior Cult (tech): All organic units gain 10% additional hit points.
- Advanced Blacksmithing (tech): Additional attack damage tech for melee units.
- Druidic Guidance (tech): Allows units to regenerate the morale of nearby allies.
- Boats have +20% hit points.

OTHER

Explore!

- New (edited) Models for Roman Infantry (Hastati and Principes).
- Some visual bugs are fixed, like the attachment and the mana foundain aura issue
- A simple changable weather system is implemented. Might update it to give bonuses and debonuses to certain units according to the current weather.
- Minor Balancing and fixes, including slightly nerfing missile units.

SPECIAL THANKS

- huy60vn for the Horse Archer Icon and constant help with many issues.
- Tashadan for playtesting and various suggestions.
- Zyne for some Model edits and Eubz for the permission.
- Everyone who has helped or tried to help with my newby trigger questions, has played the map or has made suggestions in this thread.

HELP NEEDED/ISSUES

-As always, I'd love some modeling contribution to enhance the looks as well as playtesters
-Balance/unit role advice for better gameplay and any other suggestions
-Faction selection trigger won't work for computer players if another computer player before them is unassigned - Needs Fix.
- Building mesh system for structures lacking a build animation needs fix
- Need a victory/defeat system.
- Need an experienced triggerer to spot an occasional crash and make my triggers (or advice me how to do it) more efficient.
.

 

[huy60vn]

I'm sorry I'm late.
About help needed/issues:
- Maybe you can ask some modellers to add birth animations, like Retera or others.
+ If you don't like that, you can ask some triggerers about fix the building mesh systems.
- I know there are Nichilus and Orthane are the best triggerers. Maybe you can ask them.
- About the victory/defeat systems, why don't you create a trigger like this:

• Victory/defeat systems
  • Events
    • Time - Every 1.00 seconds of game time
  • Conditions
    • (Number of units in (Units owned by (Triggering player))) Equal to 0
  • Actions
    • Game - Defeat (Triggering player) with the messages: Defeat!

 

[Pson]

I'm sorry I'm late.
About help needed/issues:
- Maybe you can ask some modellers to add birth animations, like Retera or others.
+ If you don't like that, you can ask some triggerers about fix the building mesh systems.
- I know there are Nichilus and Orthane are the best triggerers. Maybe you can ask them.
- About the victory/defeat systems, why don't you create a trigger like this:

• Victory/defeat systems
  • Events
    • Time - Every 1.00 seconds of game time
  • Conditions
    • (Number of units in (Units owned by (Triggering player))) Equal to 0
  • Actions
    • Game - Defeat (Triggering player) with the messages: Defeat!

I've got threads asking for help already, and many people have helped/are trying to help including Nichilus and Orthane.

About the trigger suggestion, yes a modified version of that could work for defeat, but it won't work for victory, possibly leaving the victorious player looking for enemies around the map. Could make a simple fix removing the fog of war along with it. Still, it needs a kinda complex system, because the plan is to make alliances changeable in game.

 

[huy60vn]

That so hard. I'm bad at triggers.
Also your new versions is good, keep working on more factions.
Could I help about add banners, or pictures? I was good at it and maybe can help you look threads better.

 

[Pson]

Yeah if you can make some nice screenshots (make showing structures and units of each faction) and banners for thread looks that would be nice

Next faction will probably be The Macedonians, who excel at both Infantry and Cavalry units, fielding tough phalanx pikemen and the biggest number of elite units, including Hetairoi (Elite Heavy Cavalry), Hypaspists (Elite Swordsmen) as well as War Elephants and Catafracts unlocked with special techs.

 

[Pson]

Progress has been slower lately, as I'm mostly busy with other things, but by tomorrow I'll probably have the next version ready.

 

[Pson]

The next version is almost ready, featuring many changes as well as the Macedonian faction.

I've started to learn how to clean leaks, and I thought I have cleared what should be all or most of them but something's going wrong with the triggers (Have I done mistakes in some of the fixes/leak clears? Something's wrong with the new triggers I've added?).

I'm experiencing VERY random crushes:
-Sometimes for example it crushes at faction selection, then with the same player setup and faction choices it doesn't.
-Sometimes it crushes on mid or late game.
-Most times (maybe like 70%) it doesn't crush at all till game is over.
-I'll have to check at my better computer. On this one I've had rare crushes even before the updates while on the better one I have never experienced one. This probably means the map has issues with leaks eating the memory, even though I thought I've fixed them, right?

Since I have no clue on what trigger(s) cause the crashes and there's no point posting all of them, I'm hoping someone is kind enough to check my triggers, or even join the project as a triggerer. I'm attaching the map to this post.

 

[huy60vn]

Look like that your game is half done..

 

[Pson]

More than half done in content Mostly trigger fixes (hardest part for me), 4 more factions (not so hard since I have them designed already) and minor details. Then there's balancing and playtesting that can come little by little.