[Altered Melee] Ancient Empires (Working Title)

[Pson]

Ancient Empires (Working Title) - Pre-Alpha 3 Released

INTRODUCTION

Ave people of the Hive! I've only recently registered to present the map I'm working on (as well as to ask for some help and feedback) but I've been a forum lurker and map/resource downloader for maybe 4-5 years, sometimes frequently others not. I've made quite a few maps over the years, mostly for myself or lan games with friends. This time I'm revisiting a favorite concept of mine, an Altered Melee/RTS in an ancient historical setting (Greeks, Romans etc). While this would not seem easily fitting with the Warcraft resources, I've found some decent ones over here and on other sites, and the WE is the program I'm most familiar with as well as far more powerful than other RTS games editors. I've seen people here asking for such a map in various instances in the past, as well as some abandoned efforts and I hope this time we're going to make it. For more info check Help Needed.

PROGRESS (3rd Pre-Alpha released)

Attack!

-Download Link

-Roman, Celtic and Scythian Civs are playable with AI

-Most of the gameplay core features are implemented. Several are not balanced though.

-Most abilities, techs and triggers are ready in the map.

-Unit, building and upgrade templates are already in the map to clone and adjust for each faction.

-Many models are chosen. Need to decide on the rest and replace other (check help needed)

FACTIONS/CIVS

Pick Your Empire!

ROMANS

The Romans excel in massing powerful melee infantry. Other strong fields for them are siege weapons, defenses and navy.

Infantry: Very Strong. Great swordsmen with many upgrades. Shortage of good spearmen though.
Missile Units: Weak. Average in late game.
Cavalry: Weak. Few troop types and no specific upgrades.
Economy: Average. Free population slots granted by logistics could be invested in more villagers though.
Defenses: Above Average. Very Strong in late game.
Siege Weapons: Very Strong. All siege unit types and many upgrades.
Navy: Strong. Only Civ to get the heavy hammership upgrade.

Bonuses:
- Infantry Train 20% Faster and Have +1 Dps.
- No limit on swordsmen. No need of the Iron resource to field massive heavy infantry armies.
- Early foot soldiers promote to stronger ones through combat (Hastatus->Princeps-Triarius).
- Marian Reforms (tech): Replaces early foot soldiers with the poweful Legionaire elite unit and gives access to auxiliary troops.
- Logistics (tech): Legion Barracks foot soldiers cost half towards the population limit.
- Imported Construction Technology (tech): Ships/Siege Weapons/Buildings get +10% Hp/Range.
- Siege Workshop (building): Replaces the archery range. Trains all siege weapon types and allows the training of battering rams at tier 2 (instead of tier 3)
- Auxiliary Barracks (building): Replaces the stables (but comes at tier 3 instead of tier 2). Trains Auxiliary Archers, Spearmen and Light Cavalry. None of these are exceptionally strong but fit roles the Romans lack.
- Auxiliary archers and spearmen can build army camps and repair.
- Army Camp (building): Replaces the fortress. Weaker than it but builds faster.

Techtree

Check Here

SCYTHIANS

The Scythians are great riders and archers, and can field the most massive cavalry force possible. Their buildings are weak but offer a diverse and mobile gameplay

Infantry: Very Weak. Only average Axemen with almost no upgrades for most of the game. Some heavy spearmen in the end game.
Missile Units: Very Strong. Good archers and Horse Archers with most upgrades.
Cavalry: Very Strong. Most types and no build limits.
Economy: Strong. No special bonuses but their build system saves more resources for troops and upgrades.
Defenses: Very Weak. Some improvements in the late game.
Siege Weapons: Very weak. Only Ballistas in the late game.
Navy: Weak. Average in the late game.

Bonuses:
- Pack Horses build most of the structures and the structures can pack back on horseback to be redeployed as any structure among those. Villagers build only Docks and Greek Colonies as well as doing the gathering and repair work.
- Packable Buildings have short build times (the pack horse trains slower than villagers though to kinda balance it) but also about 50% less hit points.
- Packable Buildings are free (besides the pack horse cost)
- Two Pack Horses are spawned for free at the Civ Center after each Phase research.
- No farms. Max food supply provided with each Civ Center.
- Arrow firing units and ships have +200 range.
- No Cavalry Limit
- Greek Colony (Building): replaces the academy. Contains various upgrades and allows the training of Spearmen, Ballistas and Triremes adding more diversity to the small-ish scythian techtree.
- Envenomed Weapons (tech): Horse Archer attacks cause damage over time.
- Steppe Hardiness (tech): Units regenerate faster - makes up for their lack of healers
- Scythian Axemen and Scythian Lancers can Pillage.
- Catafract elite unit, toughest horseman in the game

Techtree

Coming Soon

CELTS

The Celts are the not the strongest or weakest on any field. The bulk of their forces are their various infantry types, but Cavalry and missile units aren't particularly lacking. Their buildings are slightly weaker than average but also construct a bit faster.

Infantry: Strong. Most unit types and many upgrades.
Missile Units: Average. Most unit types with some upgrades.
Cavalry: Average. Most unit types with some upgrades.
Economy: Average. Nothing special nor lacking.
Defenses: Weak. Structures build faster though.
Siege Weapons: Weak. Only Rams but many units can pillage.
Navy: Weak. Only Boats, however they have increased base hitpoints.

Bonuses:
- Farms are limited to 5 instead of 10 but most other buildings give a small population bonus.
- Celtic Hound (War Dogs) are trained from farms. They are relatively cheap, fast moving early game units, very effective at scouting, detecting hidden units and raiding. Like all carnivore animals, they deal more damage to damaged units. They have very few upgrades though so their combat effectiveness declines as human soldiers get weapon and armor upgrades.
- Most buildings have 25-30% less hit points but also construct 25-30% faster.
- Melee Infantry move 10% faster.
- Most Melee units can pillage
- All units have +200 acquisition range.
- Heavy Cavalry gets a warcry ability which increases the attack damage of nearby allies.
- Woad Warrior (Elite Unit). Heavy infantry with large attack, good hit points and low armor. Deals extra damage when heavily hurt. Can demoralize nearby enemies. Can get cleaving attack with upgrade.
- Warrior Cult (tech): All organic units gain 10% additional hit points.
- Advanced Blacksmithing (tech): Additional attack damage tech for melee units.
- Druidic Guidance (tech): Allows units to regenerate the morale of nearby allies.
- Boats have +20% hit points.

Techtree

Coming Soon

ATHENIANS

Very Strong Navy
Strong Infantry
Strong Missile Units
Strong Buildings
Strong Economy
Weak Cavalry
- Buildings +20% Hp
- Towers and Colonies Build 50% Faster
- Ships Build 25% Faster
- Athenian Trireme Elite warship unit which generates income
- Heavy Peltast Elite skirmisher unit
- Archers and Skirmishers +10% speed/attack speed
- Hellenization: Structures restore stamina/morale faster

Techtree

check here

SPARTANS

Very Strong Infantry
Very Weak Cavalry
- Spartan Hoplite elite unit, most powerful infantry in the game available from Tier 1, but limited to 1 per farm.
- Cleomenian Reforms: Replaces the Spartan Hoplites with Spartan Pikemen which are slightly weaker but can be trained in bigger numbers.
- Helots: Workers and Skirmishers 20% cheaper
- Agoge: +1 stamina/morale for all units.
- Barracks give 10 population.
- Infantry move 10% faster
- Hellenization: Structures restore stamina/morale faster

Techtree

Coming Soon

MACEDONIANS

Very Strong Cavalry
Strong Infantry
Strong Missile Units
No Early Game Melee Unit
- Cavalry +1 Dps
- Skirmishers +10% speed/Hp
- Civ Centers double Hp and Attack
- Military Settlers: If bellow the pop cap, each barracks built will spawn 2 pikemen and one horseman.
- Hetairos Elite Cavalry
- Hypaspist Elite Infantry
- Can unlock Catafracts and War Elephants
- Lighthouses with huge line of sight that also grant +15% speed/range for ships.
- Hellenization: Structures restore stamina/morale faster

Techtree

Coming Soon

PERSIANS

Strong Economy
Strong Cavalry
Strong Buildings
Strong Missile Units
Weak Infantry
- All units build 20% faster and cheaper
- Building +30% hp and build time
- Royal Road: Non-Cavalry units move 20% faster
- Double trade allowed
- More Farms Allowed
- Archer range +100
- Immortal Elite unit which resurrects (replaced losses) upon death if the player has the needed resources.
- Can get access to War Elephants.
- Palace (fort replacement) generates income.

Techtree

Coming Soon

CARTHAGINIANS

Very Strong Navy
Very Strong Buildings
Very Strong Economy
Strong Cavalry
Expensive units
- Cavalry +10% speed
- Civ Center, Tower, Fort Double Hp
- Civ Center, Colony, Farm, Temple Build 50% faster
- Exploration: All units +200 line of sight
- Ships +20% speed/attack speed
- Triple trade allowed
- No limit on War Elephants
- Sacred Band spearmen and Sacred Band Cavalry elite units trained in temples.

Techtree

Coming Soon

GAMEPLAY

Learn!

- The goal is to emulate games like age of empires 1 & 2, 0 AD (Awesome Open Source RTS, check it here) with the obvious WC3 influences/limitations, my own ideas/twists and some influences from other strategy games and community maps, conscious or not. Input is welcome as well.

- Compared to WC3 micromanagement should be less critical, with very few active skills. Economy should be somewhat more important.

- The usual rock-paper-scissors of historical RTS will be tuned down in favor of a more realistic combat system.

- Unit train time/kill ratio should be only slightly faster than WC3 melee (and that because of the lack of damage active spells) to avoid the boring troop spamfest lategame of many RTS games.

- Turtling will be allowed more than WC3 but offensive players can get more population (besides the extra resources ofc) by controlling important spots to strike upon your defenses.

- Various Factions will offer different gameplay, heavily influenced by historical strengths and weaknesses to a larger extend than in AOE games. You'll have Rush, Heavy Units, Mass Units, Better Infantry/Cavalry/Ranged/Siege/Navy, Combined Arms bonuses, Extra Defenses, Better Economy, Mobility, Expansion, Migration and more bonuses with several of them available to each Faction.

FEATURES

Expand!

Maps

Several Maps with different gameplay if time allows:
Mediterranean:: A central sea with a small resource full island surrounded by land. This will be the default map but I might create more.
Delphi: Fight around a mountainous region with a temple granting powers to the one who controls it on top.
Oasis: Classic age of empires style dessert map were almost all wood is located in the middle around a small lake.
North Africa: Four different layers from north to south. Sea, plains, forrest, dessert.
River Nile: A river separates the map in half, with most of the wood around it. Few choke-points (shallow passages)
Thermopylae: The narrow passages famous for the spartan last stand against the persians, where actually many ancient battles occurred. Defensive map.
Aegean Sea: Mostly sea, with many scattered islands. Might add bigger lands in some sides.
Italy: Central long land with water on either sides.
Scythian Steppes: Huge flatland with scarce forests.

Stamina/Morale System based on mana

-Techs and special units with auras can alter this field for good or bad.
-Units that have fought for too long without resting will eventually get slaughtered even by lesser but fresh troops.
-System is still not balanced
Morale (mana)
-The more mana a unit has, the more damage it will deal. Currently bonus damage = mana/2.
-Each time a unit attacks its mana goes down by 1.
-Each time a unit gets attacked its mana goes down by 2.
-Each time a unit dies nearby allies lose 1 mana and nearby enemies gain 1.
-Each time a unit kills a unit it gains 3 mana.
Stamina (HP percentage)
-The more HP (%) a unit has, the more damage it will deal. Currently bonus damage = attacker HP%/20.
(This means for example 5 extra damage at 100% hp, 1 at 20%)
-Some units get enraged, like Celtic Woad Warriors and War Elephants. They deal more damage when they lose HP. Currently bonus damage = 200/attacker HP%. (This means for example 2 extra damage at 100% hp, 10 at 20%)
-Some units like carnivore animals (creeps) and Celtic War Dogs deal more damage to targets with low HP%. Currently bonus damage = 100/attacked unit HP%. (This means for example 1 extra damage against targets with 100% hp, 5 at 20%)

Combat System

-System is still not balanced/tested
- Not many strong counters (rock/paper/scissors)
- Heavy dependence on the the stamina/morale system, unit speeds, support abilities and troop combos/roles.
- Some units have bonuses in the form of abilities like:

Spear attack: x1.5 vs Cavalry
Pike attack: x2 vs Cavalry (maybe armor piercing)
Heavy Mace: armor piercing or bash
Siege/Fire attacks: Bonused vs buildings, Ships, Siege weapons
Missile Resistance (3 levels): 15/30/45% reduced damage from ranged attacks.
Feared (2 levels): This unit debuffs the attack damage of enemies around it.
Cleaving Attack: This unit attacks targets near the primary as well.
Run Amok: War Elephants will become neutral hostile attacking friends and foes when heavily damaged.
Heal: Priests and druids can heal allies.
Convert: Priests can convert enemy units.
Attack buff aura: Druids and possible Command units
Movement speed/life regen aura: Supply carts/animals buff
Mana regen auras: Buildings and Supply carts/animals buff
Detection: Can detect spies/assassins and other hidden units.

Unit Types

Not all civs have all units. Units have of the same class might have civ-specific names, stats/skills/level and often model. Some units have Elite versions.

Melee Units
Spearman: Medium/Heavy infantry, usually tier 1. Bonused against cavalry.
Swordsman: Heavy infantry, usually tier 2. All around with generally higher base attack than spearman.
Pikeman: Heavy infantry, usually tier 2. Strong, Bonused against cavalry, Slow moving.

Ranged/Siege Units
Skirmisher: Fast moving, short ranged infantry, usually tier 1.
Archer: Long ranged infantry, usually tier 2. Can upgrade with fire arrows to attack structures more efficiently.
Ballista: Long ranged siege weapon, tier 2. Good against structures.
Ram: Melee Siege weapon usually tier 3, can only attack structures. Can garrison units.
Catapult: Long ranged siege weapon, usually tier 3. Good against structures and massed units.

Cavalry Units (Melee and Ranged)
Light Cavalry: Very Fast moving short ranged cavalry, tier 2.
Horse Archer: Fastest Unit, Long ranged cavalry, tier 2.
Horseman: Fast moving heavy cavalry, usually tier 2.
War Elephant: Super heavy cavalry, tier 3. Cleaving attack. Feared. May run Amok.

Support Units
Supply Cart/Animal: Mobile lumber dropsite/troop enhancer, Tier 2.
Priest/Druid: healer/support, Tier 3.
Spy -> Assassin: Sneaky scout/sabotage unit

Ships
Boat: Transports units/Limited fighting skill, Tier 1.
Trireme: Transports units/Heavy Warship, Tier 2. Can ram other ships. Upgrades with siege attack.
Hammership: Melee Warship, Tier 3.

Might add:
Kings/Generals/Commanders/Captains/Satraps: heros or limited units with various buffs
Fireship/Demolition ship: Fire attack/Explosive

Naval Warfare

Capturable regions giving value to the waters:
Fishing Regions: Controlling these adds food supply.
Trade Routes: Controlling these adds gold income.

Neutral Buildings/Resources

Besides Goldmines and forests, there are capturable resource buildings giving various tech and economic bonuses (even more might be added):
Iron: Provides gold income. Allows the training of more swordsmen.
Horses: Allows the training of more cavalry Units.
Elephants: Provides gold income. Allows the training of more war elephants.
Mercenary Camps: There are several of those, for cultures which historically provided many mercenaries, each one giving access to different troops. (examples: Thracian, Celtic, Greek, Numidian etc)

All those are randomized in preset locations to differentiate each game. If this harms balance a lot, or many maps are released there might be set resources appropriate to each map

Settlements

- Settlements exist next to every goldmine and they can upgrade to Colonies and then to Civ Centers.
- They are important choke-points, not only for the mining capacity but also to add population once the farm limit is reached.
- The rest of the structures are build normally by workers.

Diplomacy

-In game changeable alliances (and modes allowing them to change or not)
-Vassal/Protectorate System: The ability to make someone your vassal/protectorate ally instead of totally destroying them, taxing a percentage of his income as well as having his army in support.

Unit Limits

Various, mostly powerful units, have a set limit which often can be increased by capturing the appropriate resource buildings (Example: Elephant resource allows the training of more War Elephants

Changing Weather

The map weather occasionally changes from calm to rain, heavy rain, snow, fog etc. For now it is purely cosmetic but I might add some effects on combat based on it.

SCREENSHOTS (none yet)

Explore!

None Yet

OTHER IDEAS

By the community or mine under consideration for future releases

- (Pson) Choose your favorite faction and help craving it's gameplay (as long as it doesn't totaly stray from map vision or balance)
- (Pson) Last tier of several Upgrades requires a map resource, like Iron, Game, Cloth etc.
- (Pson) Manpower: Each unit you lose will reduce your food cap, which also increases over time.
- (Pson) Mythology Mode: Temples trains powerful myth units and grant access to god powers (like age of mythology)
- (Pson) Devote temple: An option for greek factions (Athens, Sparta, Macedon). Might also give a different priest skill for each god.
Zeus (patron): increases infantry and command unit HP
Hades (death): increases Building, Siege, Assasin attack speed, Double Detection Range for detecting units
Ares (war): increases all soldiers hp and movement speed
Artemis (Hunt): increases ranged units range and sight
Poseidon (Sea and horses): increases ship and cavalry sight and attack speed
- (ldragogode297): Periodically spawning units (I could consider it as some faction bonus or tech research, representing allies/vassals supplying you with troops periodically)
-(DotCa): Improve the camera system
-(GhostThruster): Merge Greek Factions, Micro Focus

HELP NEEDED (and possible team?)

Assist!

-Model Help/Suggestions/Modeling/Skinning:

I could go with what's available, as I did with my early version and it's still quite ok. But since I've put quite a lot of time into this and will continue doing so, I'd love it to get more of an appropriate feel for it's era. Now how much will deppend on help available since I can't model. This will also count on what factions I'll first (or at all) release. For example there's almost nothing available suiting the Persians.

Best would be to get a modeler partner (or more) that will be fully credited as a team member and a possible public release of models will be totally up to them. No super high skill is needed. Something along the lines of Spear Footman and Mounted Bandits models here on The Hive, at times slightly more complex.

For Some basic units needed:

My idea is to take a basic model like footman or villager (one of those with multiple animations if edit is allowed) and edit it in few variations with small adjustments and texture changes (preferably in game ones) to fit some roles. I'd also love some versions of the archmage 's or any unarmored horse to create some mounted versions.

An example
Hoplite:

- Simplest way: Spear version of footman with a large round shield and with appropriate spear animation or edit of this model if creator is willing to do it or grants permission.
- Middle way: Same as simple, but i'd give some instructions for minor texture edits and or a new helmet. I'd be totally happy with this.
- Hard way: Completely new/heavily edited unit to fit the hoplite.

Buildings Needed:

Something simular to units, edit/re-skin of some buildings or new buildings in WC3 style at a specific theme.

For Some Special Units:

I'd love a heavily edited mammoth to fit a war elephant role. In 1-3 variations.

Could use a Chariot and a Slinger model, but could do without them.


If anyone is interested contact me/reply here before starting, for more speciffic details/tasks.

Blizzard style prefared for all resources to fit in with WC3 resource's I'm using.

Other:

- If people want to team up for this, I'm open as long as I need help in the field you can provide it.

- I'm not a great terrainier. I guess I can manage a quite good RTS map, but if a skilled person is up for making it better I'm all in.

- I could use a skilled triggered to check my triggers for efficiency once they're finished.

- Suggestions in any field are always welcome.

- People here can shape their favorite faction's gameplay with suggestion's to a degree that it doesn't totally conflict with historical accuracy and my target gameplay.

- Once the map is in a more ready state, I'd love beta testers and balancers.

- If anyone is willing to spot the credits needed before the map is released I'd be grateful and grant an extra honored credit position. Else I'll just do it by my lazy self

 

[TaShadan]

Nice idea. Wish you good luck.

 

[Reaper51]

Check out my map here.
It is heavily influenced by aoe2.

 

[ldragogode297]

Good luck with your map! It looks very interesting!

 

[Pson]

First post edited with new info.

Nice idea. Wish you good luck.

Good luck with your map! It looks very interesting!

Thank you both

Check out my map here.
It is heavily influenced by aoe2.

I've played both your maps and I liked them, thing is I'm inspired a lot more by the ancient era so I want to create something based on it. Plus gameplay should be quite different.

 

[ldragogode297]

I suggest a way to acquire units without buying them, like every few minutes you get 2-6 soldiers? That way you won't be completely defenseless if you have no money!

 

[Pson]

I suggest a way to acquire units without buying them, like every few minutes you get 2-6 soldiers? That way you won't be completely defenseless if you have no money!

Do you mean as an extra way of getting troops? If so I could consider it as some faction bonus or tech research, representing allies/vassals supplying you with troops periodically.

As the main recruitment method certainly not, as that would totally alter the entire game.

You also gave me an idea, I could let people here shape their favorite faction's gameplay with suggestion's to a degree it doesn't totally conflict with historical accuracy and my target gameplay.

 

[DZerpic]

I like the idea and I wish you Good Luck and Have Fun!

As for improving the "rock, paper, scissor" unit compostion I'd recommend you to check the Total War games. And I wanted to add that I always wanted AoE to have some more diplomacy options, more like in Rise of Nations. For this, you could check Europa Universalis, although it's pretty different you may get a couple of good ideas.

I'll keep my eye on this!

 

[Pson]

I like the idea and I wish you Good Luck and Have Fun!

As for improving the "rock, paper, scissor" unit compostion I'd recommend you to check the Total War games. And I wanted to add that I always wanted AoE to have some more diplomacy options, more like in Rise of Nations. For this, you could check Europa Universalis, although it's pretty different you may get a couple of good ideas.

I'll keep my eye on this!

Thanks Being a strategy game and ancient history maniac, I've tried those games you mention. Total war games (Up to medieval 2, favorite being Rome), Europa Universalis Rome and Rise of Nations to a lesser extend.

On diplomacy I'll certainly add in game alliances and the ability to make someone your vassal/protectorate ally instead of totally destroying them, taxing a percentage of his income as well as having his army in support. I think further than that is a bit complex for RTS, but any suggestions are welcome.

On rock, paper, scissor the plan is to use unified armor/attack types for all units. Then, not all units will be buffed/debuffed against something, but much of it will deppend on things like the stamina/morale system, unit speeds, support abilities and troop combos. Some units will have bonuses vs others though as abilities. Check the new combat system info under "features"

 

[Reaper51]

One problem you will definitely run into is the lack of ancient era models. There are like 10 at best on thw.

Looking forward to an overall techtree soon : D

 

[Pson]

One problem you will definitely run into is the lack of ancient era models. There are like 10 at best on thw.

Looking forward to an overall techtree soon : D

Yes, that an issue, and that's why I'm mostly asking for modeling help, while trying to keep it to simple model edits mostly instead of big requests.

However at an early version I dumped I managed to get a quite good ancient era feel. But that version had far less buildings, so I could use for example the few hay roof buildings from hive and xgm.ru for the celtic building set.

One solution I've thought of as of buildings if none comes up to help, is using the same building model for all troop production facilities, with an overhead attachment like Stable = Horseshoe, Barracks = Crossed Swords, Archery = Bow.

Units due to size and my slightly lower scale (around 0.80 - 0.90 mostly) affect the immersion less. And a ranged bandit can be a peltast/skirmisher quite effectively. I'd love model unit help as well though, for example a footman with a round shield and a spear + spear animations could be a nice hoplite. Some simple extra edits I could direct would make him perfect.

Anyway lack of models won't stop me even if it has to somewhat suffer visually. And hopefully if it turns out good enough more people could volunteer to help improve it.

Techtree is mostly planned, but i don't have it at this computer. For now I've added some things I remember about unit classes and combat system on the first post.

 

[Reaper51]

Yes, that an issue, and that's why I'm mostly asking for modeling help, while trying to keep it to simple model edits mostly instead of big requests.

However at an early version I dumped I managed to get a quite good ancient era feel. But that version had far less buildings, so I could use for example the few hay roof buildings from hive and xgm.ru for the celtic building set.

One solution I've thought of as of buildings if none comes up to help, is using the same building model for all troop production facilities, with an overhead attachment like Stable = Horseshoe, Barracks = Crossed Swords, Archery = Bow.

Units due to size and my slightly lower scale (around 0.80 - 0.90 mostly) affect the immersion less. And a ranged bandit can be a peltast/skirmisher quite effectively. I'd love model unit help as well though, for example a footman with a round shield and a spear + spear animations could be a nice hoplite. Some simple extra edits I could direct would make him perfect.

Anyway lack of models won't stop me even if it has to somewhat suffer visually. And hopefully if it turns out good enough more people could volunteer to help improve it.

Techtree is mostly planned, but i don't have it at this computer. For now I've added some things I remember about unit classes and combat system on the first post.

You can use the buildings in my map.

 

[Pson]

You can use the buildings in my map.

Those are a nice set, but look even more medieval than some of WC3 original building models. If someone could reskin them with a more marble look they would be awesome for about half my civs, but that would need edit permission as well. Also their positioning doesn't look ok with the originals so I'll have visual cohesion issues there.

So I'll probably use WC3 style for this map, the round cartoony building's don't bother me much and leave more room for imagination to fit them in another setting.

I have more than half of decent looking buildings for Rome, the 3 greek factions and carthaginians. Those civs had simular enough architecture for me to give them one set. Could always use more and less medieval looking ones though.

Scythians use centaur/draenei buildings as their various tents, they give them a fitting nomad look. They could use build animations.

Persians lack almost everything suitable building wise, a shame as I'd love to include them.

Celts use some murloc buildings from xgm.ru with hay roof, they make for great tribal structures. Also some stuff from hive that lack building animations. They need some buildings more.

 

[Reaper51]

Here is Chilla_Killas abandoned aoe1 remake map. You might be able to find some useful resources if you dig through it.

But all through wc3, there is a huge lack of camel, chariots, war elephants and ancient era ships.

ATM I'm working on a new RTS map myself, which will be on THW within a month or so.

 

[Pson]

First post update with even more info.

Here is Chilla_Killas abandoned aoe1 remake map. You might be able to find some useful resources if you dig through it.

But all through wc3, there is a huge lack of camel, chariots, war elephants and ancient era ships.

ATM I'm working on a new RTS map myself, which will be on THW within a month or so.

Thanks, I'll check it out. As well as play your new Age of War when ready

 

[Reaper51]

First post update with even more info.



Thanks, I'll check it out. As well as play your new Age of War when ready

It's not Age of War 3, that is on hold. Its a spin-off to Age of War 2, sorta like an Age of Mythology for my series.

Here are some screenshots.

 

[Pson]

It's not Age of War 3, that is on hold. Its a spin-off to Age of War 2, sorta like an Age of Mythology for my series.

Here are some screenshots.

Interesting I've actually thought of adding a mythology mode to my map with myth units trained from temples once the core game is finished. How do you use the same model with 2 different skins? Importing it with 2 different file names?

 

[Reaper51]

Interesting I've actually thought of adding a mythology mode to my map with myth units trained from temples once the core game is finished. How do you use the same model with 2 different skins? Importing it with 2 different file names?

Yes you need two models and two skins.

 

[Pson]

Yes you need two models and two skins.

Thanks, could prove useful depending on what resources I use in the end.

 

[Pson]

ROMAN TECHTREE

Show Details

Tier 1

CIV CENTER

Show Details

Function: core building, dropsite gold/lumber, buildable only on settlements, grants 15 population, garrisonable, techs, has attack(?)
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Worker - Model: could use better
Techs:
Town Phase/City Phase - Age Up
Loom? - Worker Hp
Handcart/Wheelbarrow - Worker Movement speed
Logistics - Extra Population - Roman Unique

FARM

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Function: grants 10 population
Model: Quite OK
Units Trained: N/A
Techs: N/A

STOREHOUSE

Show Details

Function: dropsite lumber, techs
Model: Quite OK
Units Trained: N/A
Techs: N/A
Improved mining 1/3 - worker gold carried +1
Improved woodcutting 1/3 - worker lumber carried +1
Improved blacksmithing 1/3 - unit attack and heavy armor upgrade
Improved leatherworking 1/3 - light armor upgrade
Improved Masonry 1/3 - building hp/armor upgrade
Improved Tailoring 1/3 - ship movement speed upgrade (and possibly something else)

LEGION BARRACKS

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Function: troop production, techs
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Velite: Skirmisher (Tier 1, lvl2 average) - model: quite ok
Hastatus: Swordsman (Tier 1, lvl2 slightly above average, upgrades to priceps with kills) - model: could use better
Princeps: Swordsman (Tier 2, lvl3 slightly above average, upgrades to Triarius Elite Spearman with kills) - model: could use better
Legionaire: Swordsman (Tier 3, lvl3 Elite, replaces hastatus/princeps after researching marian reforms at academy) - model: quite ok
Equite: Horseman (Tier 2, lvl3 average) - model: needs better
Techs:
Drilled Legions 1/3 - upgrades all legion barracks troops (stamina/morale - HP - sight) - roman version of tech
Gladius Swords: increases Hastatus/Princeps/Legionaire attack - roman unique
Lorica Segmentata Armor: Increases legionaire armor - roman unique
Testudo Formation: "defend" for legionaires - roman unique
Footwear: increases infantry movement speed

DOCKS

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Function: naval production, techs, lumber dropsite
Model: quite ok
Units Trained:
Boat: light combat/transport ship (Tier 1, lvl3 average) - model: quite ok
Trireme: heavy combat/transport ship (Tier 2, lvl5 average) - model: could use better (trireme models needs teamcolor and some anims)
Hammership: melee combat ship (Tier 3, lvl4 average, Age of mythology nostalgia) - model: perfect
Techs:
Large Boat: - upgrades transport space, hp, attack for Boat
Catapult Trireme: - upgrades trireme range, gives siege attack
Heavy Hammership: - upgrades Hammership attack, hp
Reinforced Hulls: - upgrades ship armor

WATCH TOWER

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Function: defense, detection
Model: quite ok
Units Trained:
Techs:
Guard Tower: - grants attack and more hp to the tower
Ballista Tower - grants long ranged siege attack and more hp to the tower
Town Watch: - Increases sight range for all buildings
Signal Fires: - Increases sight range for civ centers, towers, forts and docks
Counterspying: - several units and buildings gain detection ability

Tier 2

MARKETPLACE

Show Details

Function: resource exchange, techs, special units
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Spy: Invisible scout (Tier 2, might not add) - model: quite ok
Cart: mobile lumber dropsite (Tier 2) - model: quite ok
Techs:
Assasins: - spies can attack
Supply caravan: - Carts get auras which increase the hp and stamina/morale regen of units.
Coinage: - might add (markets generate income or more income from allies)

SIEGE WORKSHOP (replaces archery range for romans)

Show Details

Function: siege unit production, techs
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Ballista: Long ranged siege weapon (Tier 2, lvl3 average) - model: quite ok
Battering Ram: Tough melee siege weapon (Tier 2, lvl4 average) - model: Quite Ok
Techs:
Reinforced Rammhead: increases ram attack
Draft Horses: Increases siege weapon speed

TEMPLE

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Function: support units, tech
Model: quite ok
Units Trained:
Priest: healer - model: quite ok
Techs:
Brainwash: - allows priests to convert enemy units
Faith: - Increases priest hp

Tier 3

ARMY CAMP (replaces fortress for romans)

Show Details

Function: troops production, defense
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Legionaire: Swordsman (Tier 3, lvl3 Elite, replaces hastatus/princeps after researching marian reforms at academy) - model: could use better
Techs:
might destribute some of the barracks techs here
if command units are added they will be trained here.

ACADEMY

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Function: techs
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Techs:
Medicine - increases organic units hp regen
Engineering: Improves siege weapon ranges, sight and hp
Fire Arrows: Gives foot archers, buildings and boats a fire attack good vs structures.
Ballistics: improves siege weapon attacks
Composite Bow: increases archer range
Marian Reforms: replaces early roman infantry with the legionaire elite unit. - Roman Unique
Imported Construction Technology: increases building, ship and siege weapon attack speed and hp - Roman Unique

AUXILIARY BARRACKS (replaces stables for romans)

Show Details

Function: troop production
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Archer Auxilia: Skirmisher (Tier 3, lvl2 slightly above average) - model: quite ok
Spear Auxilia: Spearman (Tier 3, lvl3 average)- model: could use better
Cavalry Auxilia: Short Ranged Cavalry (Tier 3, lvl3 slightly above average) - model: quite ok
Techs: N/A

*Icons are from the freeware/open source game 0AD, licensed for free use

 

[Pson]

ATHENIAN TECHTREE

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Tier 1

CIV CENTER

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Function: core building, dropsite gold/lumber, buildable only on settlements, grants 15 population, garrisonable, techs, has attack(?)
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Worker - Model: could use better
Techs:
Town Phase/City Phase - Age Up
Loom? - Worker Hp
Handcart/Wheelbarrow - Worker Movement speed
Bosphoran Ties - Archers and skirmishers get increases movement and attack speed - Athenian Unique

FARM

Show Details

Function: grants 10 population
Model: Quite OK
Units Trained: N/A
Techs: N/A

STOREHOUSE

Show Details

Function: dropsite lumber, techs
Model: Quite OK
Units Trained: N/A
Techs: N/A
Improved mining 1/3 - worker gold carried +1
Improved woodcutting 1/3 - worker lumber carried +1
Improved blacksmithing 1/3 - unit attack and heavy armor upgrade
Improved leatherworking 1/3 - light armor upgrade
Improved Masonry 1/3 - building hp/armor upgrade
Improved Tailoring 1/3 - ship movement speed upgrade (and possibly something else)

BARRACKS

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Function: troop production, techs
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Peltast: Skirmisher (Tier 1, lvl2 average) - model: quite ok
Hoplite: Spearman (Tier 1, lvl3 slightly above average) - model: need better
Techs:
Drilled Infantry 1/3 - upgrades all barracks troops (stamina/morale - HP - sight)
Linothorax Armor: Increases hoplite missile ressistance and movement speed
Thyreophoroi: Increases peltast hp
Footwear: increases infantry movement speed

DOCKS

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Function: naval production, techs, lumber dropsite
Model: quite ok
Units Trained:
Boat: light combat/transport ship (Tier 1, lvl3 average) - model: quite ok
Athenian Trireme: heavy combat/transport ship (Tier 2, lvl5 Elite. 20% more movement and attack speed over Trireme) - model: could use better (trireme models needs teamcolor and some anims)
Hammership: melee combat ship (Tier 3, lvl4 average, Age of mythology nostalgia) - model: perfect
Techs:
Large Boat: - upgrades transport space, hp, attack for Boat
Heavy Hammership: - upgrades Hammership attack, hp
Reinforced Hulls: - upgrades ship armor

WATCH TOWER

Show Details

Function: defense, detection
Model: quite ok
Units Trained:
Techs:
Guard Tower: - grants attack and more hp to the tower
Ballista Tower - grants long ranged siege attack and more hp to the tower
Town Watch: - Increases sight range for all buildings
Signal Fires: - Increases sight range for civ centers, towers, forts and docks
Counterspying: - several units and buildings gain detection ability

Tier 2

MARKETPLACE

Show Details

Function: resource exchange, techs, special units
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Spy: Invisible scout (Tier 2, might not add) - model: quite ok
Cart: mobile lumber dropsite (Tier 2) - model: quite ok
Techs:
Assasins: - spies can attack
Supply caravan: - Carts get auras which increase the hp and stamina/morale regen of units.
Coinage: - might add (markets generate income or more income from allies)

STABLES

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Function: cavalry production, tech
Model: need better
Units Trained:
Hypeus: Horseman (Tier 2, lvl3 slightly above average) - model: need better
Prodromos: Short Ranged Cavalry (Tier 2, lvl3 average) - model: quite ok
Techs:
Drilled Cavalry: - increases cavalry damage, hp. stamina/morale
Husbandry: - increases cavalry speed

ARCHERY RANGE

Show Details

Function: missile/siege unit production, techs
Model: need better
Units Trained:
Archer: ranged infantry (Tier 2, lvl2 average) - model: Quite Ok
Ballista: Long ranged siege weapon (Tier 2, lvl3 average) - model: quite ok
Techs:
Drilled Archers 1/3 - increases archer attack speed and stamina/morale
Marskmanship 1/3 - increases archer damage

TEMPLE

Show Details

Function: support units, tech
Model: quite ok
Units Trained:
Priest: healer - model: quite ok
Techs:
Brainwash: - allows priests to convert enemy units
Faith: - Increases priest hp
*I've though of a system of devoting temples to various gods for greek factions (Athens, Sparta, Macedon) getting different bonuses (check first post other ideas). Might use deppending on how balance turns out.

Tier 3

FORTRESS

Show Details

Function: troops production, defense
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Heavy Peltast: Skirmisher (Tier 3, lvl3 Elite) - model: could use better
Battering Ram: Tough melee siege weapon (Tier 2, lvl4 average) - model: Quite Ok
Techs:
Heavy Peltast Tech: coming soon
Reinforced Rammhead: increases ram attack
Draft Horses: Increases siege weapon speed

ACADEMY

Show Details

Function: techs
Model: could use better
Units Trained:
Techs:
Medicine - increases organic units hp regen
Engineering: Improves siege weapon ranges, sight and hp
Fire Arrows: Gives foot archers, buildings and boats a fire attack good vs structures.
Ballistics: improves siege weapon attacks
Composite Bow: increases archer range
Hellenization: Increases The range of the stamina/morale regeneration aura around the players buildings - Greek Civs only

 

[GhostThruster]

-narrow the races down. uve got like 3-4 greek races, you could just group them into 'greeks', which allows for more difference between each race. you can also introduce more races like gauls.
-i'd prefer this map be micro-oriented like normal wc3. its pretty useless going for massive armies in wc3 since pathing is bad and selection limit is 12.
-i'd be happy to help with ideas if u ask and possibly some models.

 

[Pson]

-narrow the races down. uve got like 3-4 greek races, you could just group them into 'greeks', which allows for more difference between each race. you can also introduce more races like gauls.
-i'd prefer this map be micro-oriented like normal wc3. its pretty useless going for massive armies in wc3 since pathing is bad and selection limit is 12.
-i'd be happy to help with ideas if u ask and possibly some models.

-I've thought about it. There's a chance I merge Spartans and Athenians into Greeks, but I'd pref not too, since greek city states fought mostly against each other and even against external threats they rarely unified. I've also thought about different playstyles favored in those two factions:
Athens: Turtle (good buildings), Raid (either cavalry or fast missile troops, even maybe speed teched hoplites) , Naval supremacy, Expansion (fast towers and colonies), Balanced (has most troop types)
Sparta: Few elite spartans tanking and buffing cheap ranged troops/Pike reform for more heavy infantry army. Spam farms to get more Spartans (1 per farm) for an early infantry edge.

I think if i merge them they could become an all around faction and mostly destroy the different spartan tactics. (Spartan hoplite will move late game, pikes won't be a viable option since player will pref the spartan buffs with upgraded hoplites). Ideas/advice here?

Macedon is already a merge of Macedon and their successor kingdoms like the seleucid and ptolemaic empires, so merging them into greeks would either throw many nice units out or create a superpower.

Gauls are a subdivision of Celts, so I think no need to add them.

- Most skills will be passive or autocasts, besides some like conversion, testudo formation and such. But various unit roles, aoe damages etc will add to micro and it will certainly not be troopspam. Unit count won't reach far above WC3. The stamina/morale system will add some micro as you'll need to check the efficiency of your units.

- I'm all in for listening to/discussing/using ideas and even more in need of models so both would be great.

 

[Pson]

I've got permission to edit Eubz's and Wandering Soul's models.

Is anyone willing to do some changes on those models for me:

Royal Guard
Some versions with round shield, different textures (pref in game), removed cloak and maybe different/edited helmet.

Pikeman
A version with a small round shield attached to the left hand and possibly some texture and helmet edits

Spearman
Some versions with round/square/oval shield, different textures, removed cloak and maybe different/edited helmet.

Mounted Bandit
Some versions with spear attack animation, different/no shield, texture changes and helmet changes

You don't need to do all desired changes to a model, just some are ok.

I'm actually in need for more than those so I'd love a team modeler, but need to start somewhere.

I'm working on the Roman Civ first and since I'm still considering weather I should merge Spartans and Athenians into Greeks, I think I'll next work on the Scythians since I have most models needed for them and they have the most different gameplay mechanics to add variety.

 

[Pson]

PRE-APLHA RELEASED

FEATURES

THE ROMANS

General

The first faction released with complete techtree (minor changes still possible). Includes a working AI for computer players. More factions will be added in time with the Scythians probably being the next one due to appropriate model availability and their unique gameplay.

Roman Faction Info

The Romans excel in massing powerful melee infantry. Other strong fields for them are siege weapons, defenses and navy.

Infantry: Very Strong. Great swordsmen with many upgrades. Shortage of good spearmen though.
Missile Units: Weak. Average in late game.
Cavalry: Weak. Few troop types and no specific upgrades.
Economy: Average. Free population slots granted by logistics could be invested in more villagers though.
Defenses: Above Average. Very Strong in late game.
Siege Weapons: Very Strong. All siege unit types and many upgrades.
Navy: Strong. Only Civ to get the heavy hammership upgrade.

Bonuses:
- Infantry Train 20% Faster and Have +1 Dps.
- No limit on swordsmen. No need of the Iron resource to field massive heavy infantry armies.
- Early foot soldiers promote to stronger ones through combat (Hastatus->Princeps-Triarius).
- Marian Reforms (tech): Replaces early foot soldiers with the poweful Legionaire elite unit and gives access to auxiliary troops.
- Logistics (tech): Legion Barracks foot soldiers cost half towards the population limit.
- Imported Construction Technology (tech): Ships/Siege Weapons/Buildings get +10% Hp/Range.
- Siege Workshop (building): Replaces the archery range. Trains all siege weapon types and allows the training of battering rams at tier 2 (instead of tier 3)
- Auxiliary Barracks (building): Replaces the stables (but comes at tier 3 instead of tier 2). Trains Auxiliary Archers, Spearmen and Light Cavalry. None of these are exceptionally strong but fit roles the Romans lack.
- Auxiliary archers and spearmen can build army camps and repair.
- Army Camp (building): Replaces the fortress. Weaker than it but builds faster.

Techtree

Check Here

MEDITERRANEAN MAP

Explore!

4 player map with 2v2 fixed alliances for now. Has shared unit control to help on the AI development. The map will probably be redone or heavily edited in the future.

CORE GAMEPLAY

Explore!

Most of the core gameplay features are already in the game. This Includes settlements, the morale system (needs major balancing), unit stats (needs some balancing), most of the needed triggers, naval system (not supported by AI), unit limits.

HELP NEEDED/ISSUES

-As always, I'd love some modeling contribution to enhance the looks
-Balance/unit role advice for better gameplay and other suggestions
-Any suggestions
-Need a way to get rid of the visual effect of mana fountain aura (using it as passive morale restoration). Anyone knows?
-The coastal part of the map needs elevation adjustment so ships don't look like they are on the shore, but since the map will get redone or heavily edited i won't bother now
-A weird bug caused the resource/mercenary buildings to disappear/not spawn at game start. Fixed by DotCA. Will include fix on next update
-Warning - MAC Crash. Format of imported icons will cause the game to crash on MACS (check here for more info) I'll release a new version earlier than planned (probably within 2-3 days) to fix this.

If anyone wants to playtest with me say it here/msg me.

 

[Reaper51]

Well for balance I would recommend to have 3 attack types.
Magic = Melee attacks
Pierce = Ranged attacks
Siege = Siege attacks
You would use magic and pierce since you can give units elunes grace which gives them a specific % resistance towards magic or pierce attacks.

For making unit counters, like spearmen do 3x damage to cavalry targets, I would use the demolish ability.
Set the demolish unit damage to 3 and building and hero to 1. Then make it only target suicidal units. Make all cavalry have the suicidal tag in unit classification and tada counters.
You can also use this with the load ability (targeting non-suicidal) to prevent cavalry from being loaded in battering rams.

As well you can give units that you want to be "armored" the ancient tag and give idk archers 2x more damage to armored units like swordsmen by giving them a demolish ability that only targets ancient.

You can also mix up the combinations of this, you could have:
-light infantry (no ancient or suicidal tags), to counter light infantry with the demolish ability (target: non-ancient, non-suicidal, organic)
-heavy infantry (ancient but no suicidal tag), to counter heavy infantry with the demolish ability (target: ancient, non-suicidal, organic)
-light cavalry (suicidal but no ancient tag), to counter light cavalry with the demolish ability (target: non-ancient, suicidal, organic)
-heavy cavalry (suicidal and ancient tag), to counter heavy cavalry with the demolish ability (target: ancient, suicidal, organic)
-siege/ships (mechanical), to counter siege/ships with the demolish ability (target: mechanical)

Units can have more than one demolish ability, so you it better vs some unit types (setting damage multiplier over 1.0) or worse (setting damage multiplier under 1.0)
You could also make certain siege weapons or ships have the ancient tag if you want.
Also you can just use the demolish ability to deal bonus damage to buildings ofc BUT it has a nasty bug of it not working with units that have the attack ground command. So I would use the third attack type, Siege and set it to 2x vs building armor.

This is the way I did balance in my map.

 

[Pson]

Well for balance I would recommend to have 3 attack types.
Magic = Melee attacks
Pierce = Ranged attacks
Siege = Siege attacks
You would use magic and pierce since you can give units elunes grace which gives them a specific % resistance towards magic or pierce attacks.

For making unit counters, like spearmen do 3x damage to cavalry targets, I would use the demolish ability.
Set the demolish unit damage to 3 and building and hero to 1. Then make it only target suicidal units. Make all cavalry have the suicidal tag and tada counters.
You can also use this with the load ability (targeting non-suicidal) to prevent cavalry from being loaded in battering rams.

As well you can give units that you want to be "armored" the ancient tag and give idk archers 2x more damage to armored units like swordsmen by giving them a demolish ability that only targets ancient.

You can also mix up the combinations of this, you could have:
-light infantry (no ancient or suicidal tags)
-heavy infantry (ancient but no suicidal tag)
-light cavalry (suicidal but no ancient tag)
-heavy cavalry (suicidal and ancient tag)

You could also make certain siege weapons have the ancient tag if you want.
Also you can just use the demolish ability to deal bonus damage to buildings ofc BUT it has a nasty bug of it not working with units that have the attack ground command. So I would use the third attack type, Siege and set it to 2x vs building armor.

This is the way I did balance in my map.

It's very simular to how I do it, besides the counters, but you've given me some nice tips

Overall going for soft counters and at times none at all, trying for more realism than rock paper scissors but testing will show if more are needed.
Counters certainly won't be horse<spear<sword<archer<horse. It's overused and not very realistic even if it makes for a proven gameplay formula.

-Infantry with large shields/good missile protection (I've used grace here I think) can be kitted by missile troops (especially mounted ones or the fast skirmisher infantry) but they won't go down easily just because they are "infantry".
-Skirmishers will have missile resistance, shorter range and bigger speed, generaly on par with archers overall. They are trained from the first tier troop building together with infantry but have less upgrades than archers.
-Archers won't be as fast as other missile troops nor have missile resistance (a mercenary archer excluded), but will outrange them, have many upgrades and the fire arrows upgrade will make them mini siege weapons.
-Spearmen do x1,5 damage to cavalry.
-Swordsmen will usually have more dps than spearmen because their don't have a bonus ability.
-Pikemen have reduced collision size so that they can attack en mass simulating their tight formations and they are extra good versus horses (x2). Could also add melee resistance to them since frontally they were invincible, but then again maybe not cause from behind or the flanks they were weak and I'm not to mess with complex triggers like different damage from each direction. They are the slowest non-siege unit.
-Horses will beat archers cause they can reach them fast and are heavier hitters, not cause they magicaly do more damage to them. They are also ment to be strong units and not totally butchered by cheap spearmen (so no x3 or x4 bonus damage), but they are balanced (or will be) by build limits and possibly reduced armor for their level (minus some elite units). I've used the ancient tag for them.

The non-garrison for ram thingie was a nice thing i hadn't thought of, as I use garrishonable rams. Might even prevent some ship types loading cavalry or elephants this way but probably not, might be confusing/annoying.

I'm using an overall balance formula like:
Hp = 100L, Dps = 4L, Cost = 50L etc, where L is the unit level. Some units have reduced stats for their level on one field and increased on other or extra abilities, and that's to make unit roles. Faction bonuses may also alter these fields.

Then I'm using Demolish for spears(x1,5)/pikes(x2) vs cavalry and those armor types:

Normal = Normal melee/ranged (-50% vs structures/mechanical)
Magic = Fire (-25% vs structures/mechanical)
Siege = Siege (full damage vs structures/mechanical)

At first I used demolish for siege/fire damage as well but came across the bug you mentioned.

 

[Pson]

I've delayed the next version a little to include more features than the 2 bug fixes, will probably upload it sometime tomorrow after some testing.

It will include:
-The Scythians, the 2nd faction focusing on cavalry, archery and mobility and including a very different build system.
-Improved AI for Romans and Scythian AI.
-Faction selection system for players and computer opponents.
-A few new techs and minor terrain adjustments.
-Improved morale/stamina system (check features in first post).
-Various little fixes and features.

 

[Reaper51]

I've delayed the next version a little to include more features than the 2 bug fixes, will probably upload it sometime tomorrow after some testing.

It will include:
-The Scythians, the 2nd faction focusing on cavalry, archery and mobility and including a very different build system.
-Improved AI for Romans and Scythian AI.
-Faction selection system for players and computer opponents.
-A few new techs and minor terrain adjustments.
-Improved morale/stamina system (check features in first post).
-Various little fixes and features.

Looking forward to it!

 

[Pson]

PRE-ALPHA 2 RELEASED

NEW FEATURES

THE SCYTHIANS (with AI)

The second faction released with complete techtree (minor changes still possible). The Scythians are going to be the most unique faction in the game due to their different building system and almost complete lack of infantry, kinda like the opposite of the Romans in many aspects. This means that the first two factions are gonna need the hardest balancing against each other compared to other civs that will generally play a bit closer to the roman style, at least in building.

Scythian Faction Info

The Scythians are great riders and archers, and can field the most massive cavalry force possible. Their buildings are weak but offer a diverse and mobile gameplay

Infantry: Very Weak. Only average Axemen with almost no upgrades for most of the game. Some heavy spearmen in the end game.
Missile Units: Very Strong. Good archers and Horse Archers with most upgrades.
Cavalry: Very Strong. Most types and no build limits.
Economy: Strong. No special bonuses but their build system saves more resources for troops and upgrades.
Defenses: Very Weak. Some improvements in the late game.
Siege Weapons: Very weak. Only Ballistas in the late game.
Navy: Weak. Average in the late game.

Bonuses:
- Pack Horses build most of the structures and the structures can pack back on horseback to be redeployed as any structure among those. Villagers build only Docks and Greek Colonies as well as doing the gathering and repair work.
- Packable Buildings have short build times (the pack horse trains slower than villagers though to kinda balance it) but also about 50% less hit points.
- Packable Buildings are free (besides the pack horse cost)
- Two Pack Horses are spawned for free at the Civ Center after each Phase research.
- No farms. Max food supply provided with each Civ Center.
- Arrow firing units and ships have +200 range.
- No Cavalry Limit
- Greek Colony (Building): replaces the academy. Contains various upgrades and allows the training of Spearmen, Ballistas and Triremes adding more diversity to the small-ish scythian techtree.
- Envenomed Weapons (tech): Horse Archer attacks cause damage over time.
- Steppe Hardiness (tech): Units regenerate faster - makes up for their lack of healers
- Scythian Axemen and Scythian Lancers can Pillage.
- Catafract elite unit, toughest horseman in the game

FACTION SELECTION SYSTEM

Explore!

-Each player can pick their Civ from a dialog menu at the beggining of the game.
-Player 1 (Red) after choosing his Civ can choose the Civ of each computer player.

REVISION OF THE MORALE/STAMINA SYSTEM

Explore!

-Techs and special units with auras can alter this field for good or bad.
-Units that have fought for too long without resting will eventually get slaughtered even by lesser but fresh troops.
-System is still not balanced
Morale (mana)
-The more mana a unit has, the more damage it will deal. Currently bonus damage = mana/2.
-Each time a unit attacks its mana goes down by 1.
-Each time a unit gets attacked its mana goes down by 2.
-Each time a unit dies nearby allies lose 1 mana and nearby enemies gain 1.
-Each time a unit kills a unit it gains 3 mana.
Stamina (HP percentage)
-The more HP (%) a unit has, the more damage it will deal. Currently bonus damage = attacker HP%/20.
(This means for example 5 extra damage at 100% hp, 1 at 20%)
-Some units get enraged, like Celtic Woad Warriors and War Elephants. They deal more damage when they lose HP. Currently bonus damage = 200/attacker HP%. (This means for example 2 extra damage at 100% hp, 10 at 20%)
-Some units like carnivore animals (creeps) and Celtic War Dogs deal more damage to targets with low HP%. Currently bonus damage = 100/attacked unit HP%. (This means for example 1 extra damage against targets with 100% hp, 5 at 20%)

OTHER

Explore!

- Improved Roman AI
- A few new techs for the shared tech tree
- Fix of the MAC Crash, with all icons reimported in acceptable format.
- Fix of the special resources not spawning bug (thanks to DotCa).
- Minor Terrain Changes
- Minor Balancing

HELP NEEDED/ISSUES

-As always, I'd love some modeling contribution to enhance the looks
-Balance/unit role advice for better gameplay and any other suggestions
-Need a way to get rid of the visual effect of mana fountain aura (using it as passive morale restoration) - Fixed by Nichilus/Hell_Master
-Faction selection won't work for computer players if another computer player before them is unassigned - Needs Fix.
-Sometimes weird things become attached to units (I think building foundations) - Needs Fix.

I'm looking for playtesters

 

[Reaper51]

Scythians feel incomplete, also don't use orc warlord for cataphracts, use mounted footman or swordsman.

I like the randomized merc camps though.

 

[Pson]

What do you think makes them feel incomplete?

Is it about the button positions?
-Some button positions will be non perfectly placed on some civs cause they are shared abilities/techs that might not fit perfect visually in all tech trees. I'm also thinking it should be this way to have some hotkey uniformity between factions.
-The same applies to the buildings, since Scythians have 2-3 less buildings and those are shared between two workers, the build interface feels a bit empty and random. I did it this way for hotkey uniform between factions as well, but no buildings are shared so I could easily reposition those.

Is it about most buildings not having birth animations? I can't find better buildings with steppe nomad looks than those so it's a willing sacrifice, at least temporarily.

About the catafract, I don't mind the orc face that much, it's barely noticeable in game, and besides that it's by far the closest model to a catafract I've seen for WC3. Could always use a reskin or edits like many models for my map ofc

 

[huy60vn]

I tested your map. It looks very good . I can't make same map like your map!
But at all, some races doesn't really completed :/ Can't wait for longer.
Can I help you anything? I'm good at icons, AI and fix/add some animations.

 

[Pson]

I tested your map. It looks very good . I can't make same map like your map!
But at all, some races doesn't really completed :/ Can't wait for longer.
Can I help you anything? I'm good at icons, AI and fix/add some animations.

Thanks for the kind words

I'll add the next races little by little (probably Celts coming next), and fix some button positions for the Scythians so that they look more complete.
Besides that, I'll need specific suggestions to consider if you believe something is missing.

I could use some new animations for some unit models but not sure if I'll use them yet, so I'll like to wait on that to avoid having your work wasted. Or If you can add build animation to some structures I have certainly work needed on this.

I could also use some Icons, can you start doing an example for this horse archer, and maybe a portrait camera as well if you can.

 

[huy60vn]

I could also use some Icons, can you start doing an example for this horse archer, and maybe a portrait camera as well if you can.

Ok, I worked three icons (can see all, see only head, see only horse)
Which is the best you will choose? Then I will give you that icon )

 

[Pson]

Those are "Screenshot" icons right? Could do them myself as well but any help is welcome, will save me sometime I like the third the most, fits best with warcraft 3 unit icons I think.

Also, to both Huy60vn and Reaper51, any more specifics on what you found incomplete to help me improve it?

 

[huy60vn]

Also, to both Huy60vn and Reaper51, any more specifics on what you found incomplete to help me improve it?

Could I help you to fix all icons of some units?
A lot of icons doesn't fit with their models. Maybe I can help you a lot. Also I can help you fix birth animations. First, I need their birth animations, then I fix them.

About Horse Rider, here is the icon you are needing.

 

[Pson]

Many models will change, I'll point you to some more that will stay in game, so no work is wasted. Btw check this thread for making icons Mac compatible if you don't know about it already (the settings on the last post).

About birth animation, you mean something like "I need human building birth animation for this model" and then you can add it?

 

[huy60vn]

I'm already using that Button Manager. So I made those icons by that tools.
About birth animations, maybe I can use this Birth mesh as buildings' birth animations you are using .
What buildings in your maps need to fix birth animations? Then I'll do.

 

[Pson]

For a start I could certainly use those with building animations:

-The 2 out of 3 draenei buildings (not the town hall/one with the thing on the roof).
-The 2 out of 3 centaur tents, the 2 bigger ones.
-The marketplace.

You can do one at first and we see how it comes out so no time and effort gets wasted.

Maybe we need permission though to add this mesh on other buildings?

 

[huy60vn]

For a start I could certainly use those with building animations:

-The 2 out of 3 draenei buildings (not the town hall/one with the thing on the roof).
-The 2 out of 3 centaur tents, the 2 bigger ones.
-The marketplace.

You can do one at first and we see how it comes out so no time and effort gets wasted.

Maybe we need permission though to add this mesh on other buildings?

The marketplace? You mean Normal Marketplace by Blizzard? not... Gilnean Market? If it's correct, I'll both that, too
I think we don't need permission, because I fix birth animations by triggers .
I'll do for my best, Pson. Your map very very nice, I like so much

 

[Pson]

Yeah the normal marketplace, not Gilnean, I think it fits more. Thanks for everything

 

[huy60vn]

Welcome. I made the birth animations you asked and sended me to fix them!
Here are some pictures, you can see. If you don't believe, then I will set your map I edited to see

Scythian Civ Center

Normal Marketplace

Scythian Warlord's Stables

Scythian Storehouse

Scythian Barracks

 

[Pson]

No reason not to believe you But I'll need the map anyway to apply the changes to my next version

 

[huy60vn]

No reason not to believe you But I'll need the map anyway to apply the changes to my next version

Ok, in this your map, I added some testers. After you tested, delete them .
Also you need normal cheat to test (greedisgood 99999) (warpten)
Notice: Don't delete triggers I noticed in Trigger Editor!! It helped you create birth animations.
The rest of map same as first, nothing changed without those buildings need birth animations.

 

[Pson]

I'll just port the mesh and the triggers to the next version I'm working on so I won't delete anything to have it as a back up for the system. I'll ask you if I have any issues.

 

[TaShadan]

i liked the games we played. But why are the iron/elephants/horses are asymetrical on the map? left side has 1 elephant and 2 horses while right side has 1 elephant and 1 iron. Also its hard to know which unit is good vs which. I think there should be something like spear>horse sword>spear etc.
Also the game doesnt end when a player is defeated.

EDIT: the game should be paused till all players choose their races/factions

 

[salvadorc17]

Is a very hard challenge make all these civilizations.

 

[huy60vn]

i liked the games we played. But why are the iron/elephants/horses are asymetrical on the map? left side has 1 elephant and 2 horses while right side has 1 elephant and 1 iron. Also its hard to know which unit is good vs which. I think there should be something like spear>horse sword>spear etc.
Also the game doesnt end when a player is defeated.

EDIT: the game should be paused till all players choose their races/factions

This is a Alpha-version so we doesn't finish at all. We only fix some buildings and civ. When we fixed all, the creator can edit about other.
Anyways, thanks for comments

Is a very hard challenge make all these civilizations.

Yes, but it needs a lot of times to finish, and I don't know how to finish :/
The game has only 4 players.

 

[Pson]

i liked the games we played. But why are the iron/elephants/horses are asymetrical on the map? left side has 1 elephant and 2 horses while right side has 1 elephant and 1 iron. Also its hard to know which unit is good vs which. I think there should be something like spear>horse sword>spear etc.
Also the game doesnt end when a player is defeated.

EDIT: the game should be paused till all players choose their races/factions

You're a good player probably far ahead of me, beating me at my map the 2nd game I was a bit lazy as well and I rarely bother using hotkeys

Neutral buildings/special resources are placed as random buildings, to give a variety to each match. Since they're bonuses are extras, not something mandatory, I believe it's ok. Could change this though with modes or if/when I do extra maps, some of them could have fixed resources according to the regions they represent.

Spearmen/pikemen have bonus vs horses. Siege vs structures. I don't want artificial bonuses like heavy rock/paper/scissors. Unit speeds, skills and stats should define roles more that counters. You can check more on the combat system at first post and discussion all over the thread. Still open for suggestions ofc.

The last issue needs a fix, a victory/defeat trigger.

Is a very hard challenge make all these civilizations.

The main issues are time (so I'll add them little by little) and models (I'll do it anyway but how good visuals deppents on what modeling help I can get).

This is a Alpha-version so we doesn't finish at all. We only fix some buildings and civ. When we fixed all, the creator can edit about other.
Anyways, thanks for comments

Yes, but it needs a lot of times to finish, and I don't know how to finish :/
The game has only 4 players.

Don't worry, just have patience and it will be done Eventually there will be more maps for more players or the main map will be enlarged (terrain will be redone anyway). 4 player size is good for now, helps testing I think.

Actually there's a problem with your birth mess system. Say I Build 2 scythian barracks, the 2nd one 2 secs after the first. Now I cancel the first one. It will remove the mesh from the 2nd one since it's the last one created. In place of the first building, a mess will remain, and the 2nd building will continue construction without a mess. Simular issues can arise if the building is destroyed during construction, or if more than one players build the same structure type around the same time. Any clue how to fix these issues?