[Altered Melee] An Elf Race Idea that I just had

[knight85]

There are maps for high elves and maps for blood elves we all know that.

but has anybody ever considered a custom race map. that combines the best traits of ALL the elven races?

night, high and blood?

me personally i found the night elves kind of boring when i played their reign of chaos campaign at the weekend. but when i took a stab at some of the blood elf maps from this site yesterday and on sunday they felt...right. i havent tried any of the high elf maps yet (i was more interested in checking out the forsaken and the blood elves to see of any of the forsaken map races came close to curse of the forsaken's tech tree)

anyway original elf race. something that combines the archers and flyers of the night elves (all the blood elf maps either used phoenixes or elves on winged creatures. why should the undead and the night elves have the monopoly on powerful dragon units?), with the warriors, mages (i HATE the druid units) and seige artillery of the blood elves. with some golems mixed in for fun as a rise of the blood elves reference (i have to say tho. the blood elf seige weapon i saw in the nirvana mod when i tested it? SERIOUSLY over the top, the thing was the size of a castle and had a seige mode like a star craft seige tank)

units?

either a wisp or a blood elf worker

barracks

• a blood elf warrior for the basic footman
• an elven archer
• and a rider- long range unit so they dont need a net ability to bring down fliers.

artillery- i'm thinking magic based artillery so the siege unit isnt going into the barracks like the the night elves and the orcs

• an elven balistae
• a medium power airborn unit to match the gargoyles, flying machines, trollbat riders and faerie dragons.
• and a golem type unit for close range seige (not like the mountain giants, i mean a real magical golem, or even an enchanted suit of armor wih an axe or a spear)- something to match up against abominations and seige engines

mage units- these are why dont like the night elves. the night elf mages are too nature based

• gotta have a priest
• and a sorceress
• spellbreaker type unit- something anti magic

final unit buiilder

• an aerial rider unit like the dragonhawk rider or the wind rider
  
• and a dragon unit- like i said why should the night elves and undead have the monopoly on dragons (hell the blackrock orcs had dragons during the 2nd to last mission of the reign of chaos undead campaign) altho if a dragon was used for the medium power air unit then a phoenix would be acceptable so long as it could attack air and ground units (another thing that bugged me about the night elf chimera)

not too sure about heroes tho:

gotta have a ranger (the humans should have had a ranged hero instead of getting 2 kinds of mage)
and something on a mount. a warrior for a change, mayb a paladin type hero?
and a mage/summoner
and something to meet the middle ground of heavy attacker and fast warrior (demon hunter meets mountain king)

any of this sparking an interest?

 

[Kyrbi0]

That's interesting, though I have a hard time seeing an "Elven Coalition" that would actually work with each other.

Did you say you were looking for a good Forsaken race, too? 'Cuz mine will be sick... y'know, if I ever finish...

 

[knight85]

I guess in a sense it's not so much a coalition i'm after as a balance between magic and nature.

something that brings together the best traits of the night and high elves and mixes in some elven warriors while getting rid of junk like the druids. (some of the blood elf maps i downloaded had the right trackmand the high elf maps i downloaded might have what i want but but i didnt look properly on the blood elves and i only looked at the blood elf and forsaken maps)

as for the forsaken. yeah i am looking for a good forsaken map. from my perspective the forsaken are like the assimilated federation mod for star trek armada.

less undead and more like dark creatures. but still bringing in traits from groups that were left behind on lorderan the wake of arthus, the scourge and the legion

kind of like the fel horde orcs i've seen (but havent tried yet) less undead and demonic and more...tainted versions of what they used to be. cause sylvanus would want to distance herself as much from what arthus made her as she could while still embracing the power she had as the banshee queen.

sort of shadowed or corrupted versions of other units

warrior
archer
knight (or a crypt fiend rider like i saw in one of the maps i downloaded to allow for an anti air unit)

some kind of dark wizard (the last thing sylvanus would want is necromancers)
the banshees would still be at sylvanus's side
some kind of magical warrior unit like the worgen

a new kind of siege unit, something salvaged from silvermoon (no necromancers means no need for the meat wagons)
gargoyles would be ok for airborne units they're more dark creature than undead
a possible replacement for the abomination is a must (maybe a dullahan or a possessed suit of armor)
gotta have a medium to high grade siege flyer- something like the fel dragons of outland or a dark phoenix as a hommage to the elves (the frost wyrm riders i saw in one of the maps i downloaded looked awesome tho but they're undead)

the valkyr are still a good idea as an ultimate unit
heroes
gotta have a dark ranger type unit (but with better abilities)
sylvanus would probably recruit some death knights who were freed from the lich king and wanted revenge (or even a forsaken version of death knights)
demon hunter variant would also be interesting (the dark warrior abandoned by his night elf brothers walking the shadowed path)
and gotta have a dark mage of some kind, somebody seeking revenge for the destruction of dalaraan who delved into dark magic.

sound interesting?

now that i'm finishing work for the week i plan to spend the weekend compiling data on the tech trees of the different maps i downloaded and decide which ones i like and which ones are going to be deleted.

then i'll see about starting into the alliance campaign of frozen throne (i level skipped all the way thru the sentinel campaign cause i HATE the night elves attitude. that and the concept of the chimera is stupid. what the hell is the point of having a frikin 2 headed dragon that shoots lightning that can't attack air units?)

 

[knight85]

after spending most of the evening at it i've been able to whittle down the maps i want to keep from the pile i downloaded.

in total i deleted about 70 maps

leaving myself with a blood elf map, 2 maps for the forsaken
an undead dwarf clan
a clan of fel orcs

and illaden's followers

plus the nirvana mod

not bad for a nights work.

i would have more but none of the other blood elf maps had phoenixes or dragons it was all griffin and dragonhawk riders.

now all that's left is to take the nirvana mod for a spin and see what happens with the blood elves there

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'm a bit more engaged in the Forsaken part, so I'll go there.

as for the forsaken. yeah i am looking for a good forsaken map. from my perspective the forsaken are like the assimilated federation mod for star trek armada.

less undead and more like dark creatures. but still bringing in traits from groups that were left behind on lorderan the wake of arthus, the scourge and the legion

kind of like the fel horde orcs i've seen (but havent tried yet) less undead and demonic and more...tainted versions of what they used to be. cause sylvanus would want to distance herself as much from what arthus made her as she could while still embracing the power she had as the banshee queen.

sort of shadowed or corrupted versions of other units

warrior
archer
knight (or a crypt fiend rider like i saw in one of the maps i downloaded to allow for an anti air unit)

some kind of dark wizard (the last thing sylvanus would want is necromancers)
the banshees would still be at sylvanus's side
some kind of magical warrior unit like the worgen

a new kind of siege unit, something salvaged from silvermoon (no necromancers means no need for the meat wagons)
gargoyles would be ok for airborne units they're more dark creature than undead
a possible replacement for the abomination is a must (maybe a dullahan or a possessed suit of armor)
gotta have a medium to high grade siege flyer- something like the fel dragons of outland or a dark phoenix as a hommage to the elves (the frost wyrm riders i saw in one of the maps i downloaded looked awesome tho but they're undead)

the valkyr are still a good idea as an ultimate unit
heroes
gotta have a dark ranger type unit (but with better abilities)
sylvanus would probably recruit some death knights who were freed from the lich king and wanted revenge (or even a forsaken version of death knights)
demon hunter variant would also be interesting (the dark warrior abandoned by his night elf brothers walking the shadowed path)
and gotta have a dark mage of some kind, somebody seeking revenge for the destruction of dalaraan who delved into dark magic.

sound interesting?

Definitely, man. What most interests me is the fact that you have obviously thought this out & considered some ramifications, as well as trying to consider how the game is designed. I normally point people out to MCV's great "Design Guide for the Fifth Race" (Google it), but you may already be a disciple. ; )

Anyway, this is a conversation I have had before, and I do not have the time to re-write it all, so for starters I'll quote & link myself:

From this very pertinent thread:

I too have been tossing around a Forsaken race idea(s) for quite some time now, and I've gone back and forth a lot. Basically, though, it boils down to what kind of Theme you want your faction to be Inspired from. Either:

A: Wc3 Forsaken (minor WoW influence)
Patterned after the fledgling Forsaken portrayed in the TFT campaigns, this faction would be mostly freed & disenfranchised Undead, supported heavily by Possessed Humans/Bandits/Creeps/etc. No demons or ice, probably.

B: WoW Forsaken (minor Wc3 influence)
Patterned after the better-established Forsaken portrayed in WoW, this faction would be... I dunno. Lots of zombie-warriors, aerial Bat units, the new Plague, possibly demons, Horde alliances?

Over time, of course, my Forsaken race has become more like -> C: Random "Alternate Undead" Race / Idea Dump
Which is fun, but unfocused and thus pointless.

~~~

For obvious reasons, I prefer the former. It really depends on which direction you want to take it, though.
Determining how 'separate' they are from the Scourge is also helpful. Do they build with summoning Acolytes? Do they gather with Haunted Gold Mines? Do they harvest with T1BasicMelee (Ghouls)? Do they build/regenerate only on Blight? Etc.

P.S. Don't do bats. That's for Trolls. Forsaken Bats are dumb. Anyone know what the Forsaken have in WoW that flies? Or is it just bats?

And also check out some of my thoughts here.

Thoughts?

 

[knight85]

that's exacty the kind of thing i was thinking of.

the majority of the custom race maps i downloaded last weekened were frikin lazy plans. just modding current things like the dragonhawks and griffon riders for the blood elves. in the whole set i only found 2 that had a differnt ultimate unit for the blood elves.

the concept of the forsaken race in the map i have was a lot better. granted it still used a few undead units but they at least got rid of the meat wagon. the other map i have with the forsaken had a good design but it's no good for playing on my own (the map has a body of water seperating the 2 halves and the ai dont buy boats to get to their prey and it's boring if they dont attack me)

like i said the forsaken are like the assimilated federation mod i had for star trek armada a while back. not undead, but taking their powers from dark forces and beings who were abandoned to the chaos and darkness that overtook azeroth.

 

[Kyrbi0]

that's exacty the kind of thing i was thinking of.

the majority of the custom race maps i downloaded last weekened were frikin lazy plans. just modding current things like the dragonhawks and griffon riders for the blood elves. in the whole set i only found 2 that had a differnt ultimate unit for the blood elves.

the concept of the forsaken race in the map i have was a lot better. granted it still used a few undead units but they at least got rid of the meat wagon. the other map i have with the forsaken had a good design but it's no good for playing on my own (the map has a body of water seperating the 2 halves and the ai dont buy boats to get to their prey and it's boring if they dont attack me)

like i said the forsaken are like the assimilated federation mod i had for star trek armada a while back. not undead, but taking their powers from dark forces and beings who were abandoned to the chaos and darkness that overtook azeroth.

(You could edit that water-map, giving it a land-bridge or two so the enemy AI could get to you...)

Hm, OK. Yeah, once you've nailed down the 'feel' or 'lore' behind your race, you can begin to flesh things out in a way that is not only 'cool', but makes sense.

~~~

I've seen some Star Trek, but I'm afraid I don't quite know what you mean by "assimilated federation".

For me, I pretty much fell in love with the Forsaken as presented in the TFT campaigns (Sylvanas' missions). Having an "alternative Undead" (or a non-icy "Human-y Undead") was very appealing to me. While I've gotten into the problem of "sticking all the cool Undead models into one race" problem, I've been reworking it from the ground up to avoid that.

Also, I determined something very important for myself that I would suggest you do: I determined "where this race goes". By that I mean, there's a big difference between a 5th-race-addition & a race-replacement. If the former, the Forsaken must 'work well' with the rest of the game; not just in terms of 'how it's designed' but the nitty-gritty of 'buffs not stacking' and '"no" repeated abilities' and all this stuff I could talk at length about but won't for now.

If you are doing the latter, well... Things get a lot easier, in some senses. Personally, I will be working on a Forsaken race to replace the Undead Scourge (along with replacements for the others, on a side-note), which means I can freely use Undead units/heroes/buildings if I wish (though, as you'll see below, I may not). (I'm also freely adding to/replacing the Tavern Heroes, which is important as per below).

So which are you doing?

 

[knight85]

assimilated federation was a mod for star trek armada where the borg managed to assimilate the federation. but at the last minute somebody set off a device that severed their connection to the collective. leaving the federation assimilated but in controll.

it altered the federation in star trek armada to use borg weapons and abilities and have the ships and bases look like they would if they had been assimilated by the borg. it was pretty fun. unfortunately armada doesnt work on windows 10.

as for replacing or adding?

yeah replacing the undead with the forsaken makes sense IF you retain useful things from the undead.

the only hero in the undead that i dont know anything about is the crypt lord (i havent played a melee as the undead yet in frozen throne) but all the others are generally replacable or moddable to fit into the forsaken.

the lich and dreadlord are easily replaceable with dark mage heroes (or better yet combind since 2 mages is redundant)

death knight can be traded in for a dark paladin of some description.

the only thing that needs any work is the dark ranger.

i was actually playing a blood elf custom campaign earlier (I already cleared out all the junk human campaigns) the lead hero in it is a ranger general model with mostly dark ranger abilities. not exactly inspired but it's given me a chance to take her charm ability for a spin (a little cheating for speeding up building and it was fun to send out a wing of frost wyrms against the undead on the mission i just finished. i didnt think of it until it was too late but i could have given the hero some extra backup if i made an undead hero altar lol. oh well next time)

out of curiousity you mentioned making other races

r u making a fel orc or chaos orc race?

 

[knight85]

i was thinking about what you said about setting up custom races and you're right.

it's not just about what you want a race to have. it's about what makes sense and what sticks to the theme of the race (as well as what works with world of warcraft continuity) and also check out the creep monsters in different areas (check out Warcraft III - Neutral -> Creeps it has a list of all the creeps and their locations

like what i said about the blackrock orcs having access to dragons during the reign of chaos undead mission. it wouldnt just be a case of an orc race needing dragons that would influence the decision. it's the fact that they have a history of taming dragons and beasts in general for war. since they came from draenor it's also feasable for them to tame fel beasts

the same thing applies to the forsaken. it's not enough just to WANT to have dragons because the undead had frost wyrms. u have to show that it makes sense to include them. and that it's feasable (to an extent dragons are feasable for the forsaken since lorderan is crawling of the things. but at the same time unlikey unless you could say they stole them from the orcs or from daleran)

like what i said a few posts back about fell dragons in place of phoenixes as a high level unit. it's feasable because the blood elves went to outland with illaden.

it's all about research, planning and using the resources the game gives you

 

[Kyrbi0]

assimilated federation was a mod for star trek armada where the borg managed to assimilate the federation. but at the last minute somebody set off a device that severed their connection to the collective. leaving the federation assimilated but in controll.

it altered the federation in star trek armada to use borg weapons and abilities and have the ships and bases look like they would if they had been assimilated by the borg. it was pretty fun. unfortunately armada doesnt work on windows 10.

Ah, that's too bad. Sounds interesting.

as for replacing or adding?

yeah replacing the undead with the forsaken makes sense IF you retain useful things from the undead.

the only hero in the undead that i dont know anything about is the crypt lord (i havent played a melee as the undead yet in frozen throne) but all the others are generally replacable or moddable to fit into the forsaken.

Um. Well, sort of. "Replacement" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the type of races involved. It's more about hooking into the built-in game functions for the warnings, the workers, the town hall reveal, the pre-game race selection menu, the UI, etc. For example, there are total conversions for Wc3 that might choose to replace the Undead with Shadow Elves... Or with the Fairy Kingdom. It's more about the game mechanics & functions rather than what race it actually is.

That being said, if you're making races out of normal Warcraft factions, the 'replacement' concept benefits you if you choose a race similar to the one you're making. So yeah, Undead should be replaced by Forsaken, if you can. Whether or not you keep anything from the Undead is up to you & your planning, your lore.

~

The Crypt Lord is frickin' schweet. One of my favorite heroes. He's a consummate 'tank'; very low mana-pool & slow attack, but INCREDIBLE armor & HP. All of his abilities aid him in his tanking (Impale stuns, Carrion Beetles help him tank, Spiked Carapace is a personal Devotion & Thorns Aura all in one, and Locust Swarm eats up enemies to give him back HP; the more enemies he's surrounded by the better).

the lich and dreadlord are easily replaceable with dark mage heroes (or better yet combind since 2 mages is redundant)

Seriously? Crazy-talk. : ) The Dreadlord & the Lich are very different kinds of mages (Dreadlord may be STR but he's definitely pretty mage-y; sort of an 'off-tank/disruptive mage'). Do you think the Archmage & Blood mage are redundant? Or the Far Seer & Shadow Hunter? Naw, man.

death knight can be traded in for a dark paladin of some description.

the only thing that needs any work is the dark ranger.

Yeah, I'm actually doing something similar...

What kind of work does the Dark Ranger need?

out of curiousity you mentioned making other races

r u making a fel orc or chaos orc race?

Naw, not much of an Orc fan (fel or chaos or otherwise). I believe Wa666r made a Fel Orc race (among a whole mess of others); check with him. : )

i was thinking about what you said about setting up custom races and you're right.

it's not just about what you want a race to have. it's about what makes sense and what sticks to the theme of the race (as well as what works with world of warcraft continuity) and also check out the creep monsters in different areas (check out Warcraft III - Neutral -> Creeps it has a list of all the creeps and their locations

like what i said about the blackrock orcs having access to dragons during the reign of chaos undead mission. it wouldnt just be a case of an orc race needing dragons that would influence the decision. it's the fact that they have a history of taming dragons and beasts in general for war. since they came from draenor it's also feasable for them to tame fel beasts

the same thing applies to the forsaken. it's not enough just to WANT to have dragons because the undead had frost wyrms. u have to show that it makes sense to include them. and that it's feasable (to an extent dragons are feasable for the forsaken since lorderan is crawling of the things. but at the same time unlikey unless you could say they stole them from the orcs or from daleran)

like what i said a few posts back about fell dragons in place of phoenixes as a high level unit. it's feasable because the blood elves went to outland with illaden.

it's all about research, planning and using the resources the game gives you

I can't tell you how heart-warming it is to hear that; if I leave you with nothing else, I consider this conversation a success, because that's one of the most important things I have learned. It's what separates the men from the boys in race-modding, in my opinion.

It goes further, too; I learned this years later, but when I made Heroes I used to sit & think of all the cool abilities I could, then stick the coolest/best/most 'synergistic' ones onto the Hero. Things is, can't put the cart before the horse; you must first nail down the "Role/Function" of that Hero (tank/dps/caster; support, offense, defense; mobility, utility, summon, disable, crowd-control, etc; etc), and then and only then should you begin to consider abilities; and only abilities that match/enhance/describe that chosen Role/Function. (I still have problems with this one but I'm working on it)

~~

So when you're talking about your Forsaken, it's good of you, perhaps even essential of you, to consider "where they come from", "where they live", "what they believe", "what there goals are", etc. That will tell you whether awexome dragons fit, or perhaps fel dragons or dark phoenixes or whatever.

Also something you mentioned; keeping continuity. For you, it appears you want this to fit into WoW nicely. For me, all the continuity I care about is what came before; I much prefer the "post-Wc3 Forsaken" and will only barely 'touch' the new WoW stuff when I feel I can re-work it in an interesting & Wc3-y fashion (e.g. the Dark Apothecary).

~

In fact, that's a big part of my Forsaken 'redesign'. I figured that the Forsaken, consisting of the dregs of the Scourge (willful Undead strong enough to escape when the Lich King was weak & join Sylvanas) would necessarily consist of Undead beings from the Scourge's recent actions; specifically, Humans (from all over Lordaeron) & Elves (from the siege of Quel'thalas). Class-wise, there would be all kinds but a decent chunk of Mages/Wizards/etc, due to the fall of Dalaran (perhaps 2-5). Then, given that Sylvanas, a Ranger-General, was their leader, I figured a decent "Archer" class would be prevalent as well (perhaps 1-3 bow-wielding units).

So Humans & Elves, Mages & Archers. Definitely still room for regular (melee) Warriors, for creepy beasts, for (a) crafty Mech(s)... But that's a pretty good core. For me.

This is a buncha Forsaken thoughts & planning & stuff I've had over the years. A lot of it is outdated (oldest -> newest); the first set are URLs to my main 'custom race' topic that talk at length. The rest are thoughts & things, mostly about Heroes but also about the race as a whole

Wc3C.net - View Single Post - ~Custom Race Creation~ (no official name)
Wc3C.net - View Single Post - ~Custom Race Creation~ (no official name)
Wc3C.net - View Single Post - ~Custom Race Creation~ (no official name)

FORSAKEN HEROES - 20140725

Dark Ranger
Dreadlord (alt)
Dark Knight

Grand/Dark Apothecary

Wraith Strider
Banshee Queen
Deadeye
Dark/Black Knight
Grim Archon

...

A - Undead Elven Ranger - (Dark Ranger)
I - Undead Human? Alchemist - Grand Apothecary
S - Possessed Human Warrior - Dark Knight
I - Undead Human Wizard - Grim Archon

===
Some Quick Forsaken Thoughts
===

undead
=
wraiths
no corpses
no skellies?
zombies?
=
Humans (raised by Scourge)
Humans (possessed by Forsaken)
Elves (Quel'thalas; raised by Scourge)
Mages? (Dalaran; raised by Scourge?)
Dwarves?? (nawp...)
Trolls??? (NEVAR)

(Dark Ranger: former Rangers of Quel'thalas, now raised in undeath, seek nothing more than sowing dissension and chaos in enemy ranks)
(Grim Archon: former Archmages of Dalaran, now raised in undeath, seek nothing more than wreaking vengeance and sapping life from their foes)
(Grand Apothecary: )
(Grand Marshal/Dark Knight/Blackguard/...
=
possessed troops (mercs, creeps, bandits, etc)
plague

As you can see in there, since I'm 'replacing' the existing game I'm just going to use the Dark Ranger right as she is; she's pretty much perfect. Next-most-important, I consider the "Apothecary" concept from WoW to be pretty solid & creative (for Warcraft as it is); so we got a 'mage' in the form of a potions-master. After that, I toyed with a Dreadlord hero ("Nathrezim Exile"), but while it happened in the campaign (re: Varimathras) I really couldn't explain how you would get 'more' of them (remember, standard melee Heroes cannot be 'one of a kind'; instead they represent a class, a group of beings. There are a bunch of Paladins, many Priestesses of the Moon, and scads of Goblin Tinkers I'm sure). However, the campaign-idea of stealing (primarily) Humans (especially the Bandit Lord Blackthorn or even Garithos himself) seems to be a pretty solid way to get a 'warrior' hero into the Forsaken.
The last one is really hard; I could just as easily go for another mage (ghostly angry Archmage dude, as above), but then again a ghostly assassin-type would be interesting too.

~~~

Anyway, enough about my ideas. This is your thread. : )

 

[knight85]

well in regards to the archmage and blood mage and the farseer and shadow hunter i dont know if they're all redundant

i havent played with the blood mage or shadow hunter yet

as for the dark ranger.

i think she just needs a bit more offensive ability in her arsenal to make her a true banshee queen. charm is a good ability it just needs to be more accessable in a short term melee battle

and since you mentioned dark phoenixes. that would make sense for a high level unit in place of dragons for the forsaken. especially if you brough in elves that survived the fall of quel'thelas and fed on the corupted energies of the sunwell to survive

the same would apply to humans. warriors who fell into darkness and dispair in the aftermath of the scourge and the legion (a perfect way to bring in a fallen archmage and a dark paladin)

so for heroes the solid idea would be:

dark ranger type character with some different skills- lose silence and move charm down from level 6 to make it more accessable, replace it with some kind of aerial bombardment skill (the opening sequence of chapter 4 in the undead campaign shows sylvanus has a history with those kinds of skills so it's viable) and it would give u a warrior mage character similar to the priestess of the moon if you couldnt think of a way to bring in a dreadlord

dark archmage- a viable way to keep summoning skills from the dreadlord combined with an offensive spell (i checked out the infernal and the water elemental. the only major difference between them is the fact that the water elemental has an air attack and cant attack trees. in fact if you didnt want to use a water elemental or an infernal as a summon you could use the firelord hero or the voidwalker merc units as a model for a summon for a perfect middle ground

dark paladin- speaks for itself. the only advice i could give there would be to trade the death knight's death pact skill in for something offensive for fighting the undead as well as the living

not too sure about the last hero myself. Apothecary could work, but at the same time the Apothecary could also work as a normal support mage unit in place of the necromancer.

it's a case of what you need as you said. the dark ranger is your warrior mage, dark archmage is your summoner, dark paladin is your support warrior.

the only other thing that comes to mind is the dark assassin idea you mentioned. mayb a modded version of the demon hunter. i saw something like that in a custom campaign i was playing yesterday. he had blood elf type armor and was using 2 of the throwing blades the spellbreakers use for his double blades (abilites were the same as the demon hunters tho but meh). it's too bad shadow hunter is already taken as a class name

and if you remember what i said a while back about a replacement for the abomination in the form of a posessed suit of armor? the frost revenant would be a perfect substitute

in addition if you dont want to bring dragons into the forsaken race on your map there's an easy solution. put a dragons roost or 2 on the map

 

[knight85]

besides this may be my thread but the whole point was for me to put an idea in place that OTHER designers could use. i wouldnt even know where to begin.

do if you or anybody else wanted to make use of my ideas. more power to you

 

[Kyrbi0]

Ah, I fear I have misapprehended the nature of this thread.

I thought you were posting an idea you had, for something you wanted to work on. I was offering some guidance, advice & suggestions in that vein.

My bad. : P

 

[knight85]

not a problem

I was just sitting a few weeks ago after going thru a pile of blood elf maps and I figured. why not

then you brought up the subject of the forsaken

the only reason I asked if you were doing a fel horde map is because I was gonna suggest the orc slavemaster that arthus fights in his first chapter as a possible model for a hero unit

 

[Kyrbi0]

Yeah, that's a good one for that race.