[Altered Melee] Altered Melee map with Neutral factions

[Mister_Haudrauf]

I have thought about it for quite some time and i have come to the conclusion that it would be interresting to have several maps where you could ally yourself with native factions.

For example:
Outland themed map:
Neutral factions would be fel orc clans with random names like "Battleaxe-Clan" or "Fireblade-Clan" that would fight each other and the Lost ones faction and Mag'har-Orc faction.

A barren themed map:
Neutral factions would be the native residents of the barren like the Quilboar, Centaur and Harpies.
But they would fight each other due to their hatred of each other and by proxy even you, if you ally with one of them.

What do you think about it? Do you think it would be fun? Do you think it would be interresting?

Tell me your opinions.

 

[The Panda]

I mean yeah that would be neat they have there own creep camps. But how would they just randomly fight each other? Once you ally them or? kinda confused on that part.

 

[Mister_Haudrauf]

To be honest: I based my little Idea on a Campaign mission:

Rise of the Blood Elves = Chapter 2

There you have to ally as much Fel Orc clans as possible, before Magtheridon does it.

Some of these random fel orc clans don't like each other and if you ally one of them you would fight the other.


Now that i think about it. While it is neat with the neutral factions i don't think it is possible to make it work for multiplayer, because in the campaign mission they don't attack each other as soon as you start the mission they attack each other as soon as they are allied to either you or your enemy.

 

[The Panda]

Plus I'm not sure if you can make this into a melee map, versing other people. I'm sure you can do it a different way.

 

[Mister_Haudrauf]

Maybe. For now i let the mods close this thread. It was just a little idea of mine. Not important.
Either way i am busy making models anyway. Maybe someone else will adopt the idea and make it actually work.


@Heinvers could you close the thread please.

 

[Kyrbi0]

This is a neat idea. Probably a few ways to make it work.

 

[severed]

this is definitely possible, but it would be difficult to give it much value, there would have to be value in allying these factions, I'm confused about what I would gain out of allying them? would I control them or gain items??

 

[cleavinghammer]

I think it could work for multiplayer, you just need to keep the warring factions out of immediate reach of the players (for instance, going with the quilboar/harpy/centaur example, the players start in the map corners, the three faction bases are in the middle of the map), and have an initial waiting period (like a time limit or a minimum hero level) before you can start diplomatic relations with them.

Maybe different levels of alliance as well:
* Level -1: Faction sends attack waves towards your base.
* Level 0 (initial state of all players): Mutually hostile, but the factions don't send attacks on your base.
* Level 1: Mutual neutrality.
* Level 2: The faction lets you hire mercenaries and sends occasional attack waves against your enemies.
* Level 3 (after the other neutral factions are killed): Control of the faction (units and bases) is transferred to you. If two or more enemy players have this level of alliance with the faction, the faction stays at level 2 until one player's defeat.

Alliance levels are increased by killing rival faction units (either by participating in their battles or killing their troops guarding gold mines and neutral buildings) or giving resources or items to the faction. Going up a level with one faction knocks you down a level with the others, with a neutral location at the map center to negotiate alliances.

If making an AI for the neutrals is too complex, simply have each base send out waves into the others like an AoS.

 

[Mister_Haudrauf]

this is definitely possible, but it would be difficult to give it much value, there would have to be value in allying these factions, I'm confused about what I would gain out of allying them? would I control them or gain items??

The Value would be depending on what faction you ally:
1.You gain a certain artefact that makes it a bit easier to fight your enemies.

2.You gain a portion of their units: for example for Outland Fel Orcs: You would gain control of some Fel Orc Grunts or Raiders or Warlocks.

3.You gain one worker (that would be retrained, if killed) that could building a certain number of buildings:
The Fel Orcs for example: Depending on what clan you ally.
1.You could build maybe 1 or 2 barracks that could train Fel Orc Grunts.
2.You could build maybe 1 or 2 beastiaries that could train Fel Orc Raiders.
3.You could build maybe 1 or 2 Spirit logdes that could train Fel Orc Warlocks.

It certainly isn't equal and balanced, but exactly that would mirror the real world.

I think it could work for multiplayer, you just need to keep the warring factions out of immediate reach of the players (for instance, going with the quilboar/harpy/centaur example, the players start in the map corners, the three faction bases are in the middle of the map), and have an initial waiting period (like a time limit or a minimum hero level) before you can start diplomatic relations with them.

Maybe different levels of alliance as well:
* Level -1: Faction sends attack waves towards your base.
* Level 0 (initial state of all players): Mutually hostile, but the factions don't send attacks on your base.
* Level 1: Mutual neutrality.
* Level 2: The faction lets you hire mercenaries and sends occasional attack waves against your enemies.
* Level 3 (after the other neutral factions are killed): Control of the faction (units and bases) is transferred to you. If two or more enemy players have this level of alliance with the faction, the faction stays at level 2 until one player's defeat.

Alliance levels are increased by killing rival faction units (either by participating in their battles or killing their troops guarding gold mines and neutral buildings) or giving resources or items to the faction. Going up a level with one faction knocks you down a level with the others, with a neutral location at the map center to negotiate alliances.

If making an AI for the neutrals is too complex, simply have each base send out waves into the others like an AoS.

That is actually a good idea with alliance levels.

And making an AI for them isn't difficult. I mean i made multiple AI's for my multiple race map with only the AI editor, but Jass is definitely better for AI making and i am not good with it.

 

[severed]

So what your proposing is that melee players control 2 bases with 2 sets of unit types?? It sounds like an interesting concept, but it would have to be really well balanced to appeal to hardcore melee players. Also if your going for new races, fel orcs is not really a good start since they are so similar to standard orcs

It certainly isn't equal and balanced, but exactly that would mirror the real world.

huh??

 

[Mister_Haudrauf]

@severed
Firstly fel orcs would only appear in outland based maps and they wouldn't be the only ones. There are also the lost ones, broken draenei, Arak'koa and Mag'har Orcs also native to Outland.

They wouldn't appear in the barrens for example and i am not going for new races at all. Well not always. I am a lore fanatic, but giving my own touch to it. Like making a Race appear in a sea or swamp like regions that doesn't exist in Wow but could make sense with a possible explaination.

And what i meant with this sentence:

It certainly isn't equal and balanced, but exactly that would mirror the real world.

Is that some regions on our planet give others more than they actually gain. Some people work hardly and yet only earn some cents or whatever currency in the regions they live in.


And the balancing thing should not be up to me, because of my lore fanaticism. If i would add the Death Knights of Archerus as a faction than they would exactly be like in World of Warcraft: Almost invincible. And that is not balanced. not at all.

 

[severed]

Is that some regions on our planet give others more than they actually gain. Some people work hardly and yet only earn some cents or whatever currency in the regions they live in.

most people play video games to escape reality, not to deal with more inequalities

And the balancing thing should not be up to me, because of my lore fanaticism. If i would add the Death Knights of Archerus as a faction than they would exactly be like in World of Warcraft: Almost invincible. And that is not balanced. not at all.

Well its up to the map maker, but when I hear "melee" I think competition, which requires balance. melee players dont want those kinds of races like in WoW