Alliance - Sin'dorei relations and history!

[Heinvers]

Well seeing as the Alliance and Quel'thalas have a long history together I thought I'd open this topic about it. Here you could talk mainly about the Kirin'Tor, Sin'dorei and Alliance relations, past and diplomatic topics.

Aethas was uncomfortable throughout the meeting, and witnessed Lor'themar and Jaina's truce after Taran Zhu intervenes.
whts the truce thy are talking about?

Here we can talk more openly about this truce. Honestly I don't know much about it. Haven't payed too much attention. I think that Jaina considers readmitting the Sin'dorei into the Kirin'Tor. Remember the one time when Varian Wrynn started diplomatic secret meetings with Lor'themar? Well I guess now those would be opened and mended a bit after Jaina's rash actions in Dalaran.

 

[Teldorei]

i just read it , they didnt ,they just agreed not to destroy each other
but i did like to see bloodelves rejoining the alliance

 

[Forsaken]

I also did not like what she did against Sunreaver, so that was the first thing she thought when the Horde used the portals Dalaran,to attack Darnassus,after that, I think she may even think in the back of Sunreaver to the city.
And it would be great if the Blood Elves came back to the Alliance, should never have left it. Damn Garithos!

 

[Teldorei]

yeah when threr was talks about lorthemar and varian meetings i saw alot of BE wow players excited even the ones who always said phrases like "for the horde" it will be aweasome if someday somehow they rejoin the alliance

 

[Heinvers]

Well indeed they were. After all the Alliance and the HE 9now BE) were allies for centuries. (Hell Dalaran was friends with Silvermoon for over 2000 years, also a painful sight for the BE when they saw Jaina evict them by force from the Kirin'Tor).

 

[Razosh]

What this truce means none of us truly knows it could mean that the Sunreavers are to be released or that Jaina just wont kill them and in turn the blood elves wont attack her. It's not surprising though that the Sin'dorei would align themselves with the Horde. Considering that Sylvanas was a kind ally back in those days and that she was a much bigger threat than the humans since they were neighbors the Horde was the obvious choice.

 

[Teldorei]

since garrosh is gone the horde might be a better place for blood elfs than before

 

[Razosh]

since garrosh is gone the horde might be a better place for blood elfs than before

No doubt, Vol'jin seems to care more about his people.

 

[Go'el]

The High Elves should rejoin with the Blood Elves, since they didn't consume fel magics anymore, and then, help the Blood Elves rejoin with Dalaran. Everybody wins, Vereesa will have her place back in Silvermoon and will stay close of her sister_{(FOR THE DARK LADY!!)}, In fact, the High Elves should also join the Horde :3 (I know, it's impossible :c)

 

[Teldorei]

i really liked to see lorthemar as the new leader of the horde instead of vojin

 

[Heinvers]

i really liked to see lorthemar as the new leader of the horde instead of vojin

Indeed. Even tho the Horde is lead by Vol'jin now, it's still strange for me. As for Lorthemar as a Warchief well that's a different story. Just imagine the irony of an Elf leading da' Horde, the same *beasts* that burned Elwyn Forest to the ground almost completely (during the 2nd War). Yes the Horde changed a lot since then but still I have a hunch that some Elves haven't forgotten the Horde's past deeds.

 

[Teldorei]

ofcourse they didnt ,remember what happened in silvermoon's market that people were telling things against horde and magisters?

 

[Razosh]

Vereesa will have her place back in Silvermoon and will stay close of her sister_{(FOR THE DARK LADY!!)}

If you've read the latest novel War Crimes you'll know that being close to Sylvanas is most likely the last thing Vereesa wants right now. Sylvanas doesn't strike me as the forgive and forget type of girl.

 

[Shatterfury]

The Blood Elves aren`t going anywhere for the time being.
Jaina made sure of that.

 

[Heinvers]

The Blood Elves aren`t going anywhere for the time being.
Jaina made sure of that.

For the time being the Sin'dorei will remain still and follow the regent's rule. Although they might go neutral in the future but seeing as Vol'jin became the Warchief of the Horde (we already know his personality, no need for explanations) I'd say they'll be at ease this time (thank goodness that Garrosh was overthrown, who knows what might have happened to the Horde). Yes Jaina is described by her actions but the Blood Elves have their share of guilt too! I'd say that sometime in the near (worst would be far) future the Sunreavers might be re-accepted into the ranks of the Kirin'Tor. Only time will tell.
Edit: After the events of War Crimes (during her resurrection) she did changed a bit, but the fire still remains (although the rage might have faded away for a time).

 

[Teldorei]

even if the are reaccepted ,will the join the kirin tor again after all this?

 

[Shatterfury]

For the time being the Sin'dorei will remain still and follow the regent's rule. Although they might go neutral in the future but seeing as Vol'jin became the Warchief of the Horde (we already know his personality, no need for explanations) I'd say they'll be at ease this time (thank goodness that Garrosh was overthrown, who knows what might have happened to the Horde). Yes Jaina is described by her actions but the Blood Elves have their share of guilt too! I'd say that sometime in the near (worst would be far) future the Sunreavers might be re-accepted into the ranks of the Kirin'Tor. Only time will tell.
Edit: After the events of War Crimes (during her resurrection) she did changed a bit, but the fire still remains (although the rage might have faded away for a time).

I don`t know.

Gamewise there is no reason.Dalaran is firmly Alliance now.They were neutral just for the sake of gameplay to begin with.

I would have made a city for the Taunka since they were quite numerous, that could have served as the Horde city in Northrend.

even if the are reaccepted ,will the join the kirin tor again after all this?

Not for the foreseeable future.

 

[Teldorei]

a city should be added to horde

 

[JCarrill0]

Considering who the Blood Elves were, who they have become, it makes sense to stay with the horde. Even if Jaina didn't do what she did (I'll come back to this in a second) Silvermoon would become heavily assaulted by the Forsaken. The alliance would have little time to support with re-enforcements. The Dark Lady is VERY territorial and slowly but surly is becoming more and more of who the Lich King was.

Don't get me wrong, these are elves! Not to be taken likely, but still the death toll for switching BACK to alliance would of been VERY high!

The Dark Lady is no fool either! She was a very skilled tactician even as a High Elf, very few live who underestimated her. Now as the Banshee Queen, she's at a who new level, and he quest for territory grows everyday.

As for Jaina, and how she screwed everything up, keep in mind this was Jaina Proudmoore for a second. Daughter the Grand Admiral of the alliance. The fall of Theramore & Lordaeron was never the only tragedy she had experienced. Not to mention the whole "Arthas" incidents. in the end she had become her father's hatred, and I'm surprised she didn't Kill Garrosh herself after the seige of orgrimmar.

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Tossing all that aside for the moment, Say Silvermoon did switch faction, , the tides of factional balance would be screwed.


(the following based on my opinions, research, and knowledge on the lore, and trust me, I know my lore. I been playing since wc1)
Most likely, Lady Sylvanas WOULD consider teaming back up with her Elven kin along with the Knights of the Ebon Hand.
(Not saying they would agree to her alliance, but she herself would consider it since she would be easily flanked from all sides if they were to Assault Undercity)

but what then.. the remaining Horde would still be led by Vol'jin, but with few number stand against the might of the new forces in the Grand Alliance? GG imo, GG

 

[Razosh]

but what then.. the remaining Horde would still be led by Vol'jin, but with few number stand against the might of the new forces in the Grand Alliance? GG imo, GG

I didn't realise there was a war going on, when did this happen? I hope the next expansion will be less Horde vs Alliance and more Horde + Alliance vs Iron Horde. Though I don't know what will happen when Velen meets himself from an alternetive future.

 

[JCarrill0]

I didn't realise there was a war going on, when did this happen? I hope the next expansion will be less Horde vs Alliance and more Horde + Alliance vs Iron Horde. Though I don't know what will happen when Velen meets himself from an alternetive future.

Current Lorewise, the war Just ended, but war is always coming. That's what warcraft is.

Major Wars:
First expac "The war againt the Burning Legion"
Second Expac "The war against the Lich King"
Third Expac "The war against DeathWing"
Current Expac "The War against Garrosh"

For those who knew the lore well, already knew the war with Garrosh would come by the end of cata, and those who read up on blizzard knew they already planned siege of Orgimmar as the ending of MOP before cata ended.

 

[Razosh]

This far we only know of the upcoming war with the Iron Horde, hopefully both factions will be neutral towards one another. Meaning they'll shoot the other on sight if that person comes into their teretory. If a war will be started it's not by Vol'Jin atleast more likelly it'd be Varian.

 

[Teldorei]

so now the alliance has one city more than horde does

 

[Razosh]

They sure do but they still don't have what seems to be a larger number based on what happened on the Isle of Thunder.

 

[JCarrill0]

so now the alliance has one city more than horde does

If you think about it, Alliance always had it as a city, and ingame horde can still go there.

 

[Razosh]

If you think about it, Alliance always had it as a city, and ingame horde can still go there.

No we can't, the Dalaran we see is the Dalaran of WotLK if it was the Dalaran of today I would why Rhonin and Malygos are both still alive.

 

[JCarrill0]

ingame horde can still go there.

Just logged out my Blood Elf paladin in Dal

 

[Razosh]

Just logged out my Blood Elf paladin in Dal

Why are you double posting something with other words?

The question was

so now the alliance has one city more than horde does

And the asnwer is that Dalaran is now Alliance controlled, when you walk in Dalaran in game it is Dalaran as it was in 2008 that's why Rhonin's still alive in the city and why it's still being invaded by Malygos.

 

[Heinvers]

when you walk in Dalaran in game it is Dalaran as it was in 2008 that's why Rhonin's still alive in the city and why it's still being invaded by Malygos.

I guess that mainly for people who want to level up if they haven't. Yes that's the old pre MoP Dalaran so it's neutral.

 

[Razosh]

Even my local feline minion agrees with me.

As far as the Sin'dorei go I want to see where they'll go in MoP if we're going to see them. I also hope I will be able to decorate my garrison with red and golden banners and be able to interact directly with Lor'Themar and help my race out.

 

[Teldorei]

do all of the council of six agree with jaina?,i mean dont they see that shes taking advantage of them?

 

[Heinvers]

do all of the council of six agree with jaina?,i mean dont they see that shes taking advantage of them?

I assume they do. After all now she represents Dalaran's voice. Jaina does what she thinks is best for the Kirin'Tor which in term is good for Dalaran. I don't think she uses the six. If that would be the case then Antonidas would have used them too which he didn't!

 

[Teldorei]

what i mean is do they realy want to start a war that isn't theirs?its jaina's war.

 

[Heinvers]

what i mean is do they realy want to start a war that isn't theirs?its jaina's war.

This time they'll go to war against the Iron Horde not da' Horde. I'm pretty sure they'll enjoy the killings this time, so I guess they'll be right beside Jaina fully devoted.

 

[Teldorei]

even khadgar!?

 

[Heinvers]

even khadgar!?

Lemme put some short history recall from the 1st war. Khadgar was Medivh's apprentice, wasn't he? That didn't stopped him from killing his mentor (albeit he was possessed by Kil'jaeden, but that's not the point) when he found out about his *hand* into opening the Dark Portal. SO the point is that he would do it even if he's old now.

 

[JCarrill0]

Why are you double posting something with other words?

I wasn't double posting, I was stating how my point was true.

so now the alliance has one city more than horde does

And the asnwer is that Dalaran is now Alliance controlled

Dalaran always was a Alliance City, since way back when. not just in World of Warcraft WOTLK.

when you walk in Dalaran in game it is Dalaran as it was in 2008 that's why Rhonin's still alive in the city and why it's still being invaded by Malygos.

Correct, making my post also correct, you can still go to Dalaran INGAME (some who post and read this don't actually play wow).

I guess that mainly for people who want to level up if they haven't. Yes that's the old pre MoP Dalaran so it's neutral.

This is correct and I too agree

Even my local feline minion agrees with me.

There is no need to sit there and try to start a flame war becuase you disagree with me. if you do fine, don't turn it into useless debate when its a matter of opinions when both people are correct. In the future, please refrain from arguing to prove me wrong when infact my points were actually true, just because you know what happens doesn't actually mean horde can no longer go to dalaran, when they can.

do all of the council of six agree with jaina?

Most likely yes, or more so, support her decisions. She basically is wanting to see the horde destroyed after what they did. I just wish she be stop and think a bit. The Horde removed the leader and put in a new leader, one they feel will best represent the interest of the true horde.

also keep in mind following the "Purge of Dalaran", the Council of Six has been left with only five known members. Jaina need a Sixth to take the place of Aethas Sunreaver

We can only watch and wait for the next events unfold.

 

[Razosh]

@JCarrill0 Alright so you shifted topic in the middle of a post so it seemed like you were discussing something you were not.

There is no need to sit there and try to start a flame war becuase you disagree with me

It never dawned on you that the statement you're quoting here might not be serious but actually a joke.

And to answer Taldorei's question Modera was outspoken against Jaina's actions towards the Blood Elves. http://wowpedia.org/Archmage_Modera

 

[JCarrill0]

It's most unfortunate what happens to The Blood Elves really, I do hope they get issues with Dalaran sorted out one day. I fear Jaina will be the undoing of more serious discussing The Alliance have planned.

 

[Heinvers]

And to answer Taldorei's question Modera was outspoken against Jaina's actions towards the Blood Elves. http://wowpedia.org/Archmage_Modera

The only time when she was against it. Where was she during Garithos' arrest of the blood elves in Dalaran during late 3rd war? She was in Dalaran at that time but never bothered to defend them at that time, and now you see her questioning Jaina's purge of Dalaran. She's quite two-faced if you ask me. As for the flame war, I hope it's not the case here or I'll ask a moderator to close this thread this instant!

 

[JCarrill0]

The only time when she was against it. Where was she during Garithos' arrest of the blood elves in Dalaran during late 3rd war? She was in Dalaran at that time but never bothered to defend them at that time, and now you see her questioning Jaina's purge of Dalaran. She's quite two-faced if you ask me.

LOL, maybe she was trying to stay neutral, and finally enough was enough.
It does look as if she suddenly spoke up when she normally kept silent about it.

Do you really think Jaina will ever reconcile with Silvermoon?

 

[Razosh]

Her actions during the third war were indeed suspicious. And don't worry about the flame war.

 

[JCarrill0]

Turning this around a bit, how do you think the Leader of Silvermoon feel? Do you think they ever want to go back after these events? I mean if Varian could talk peace negotiations before, could he not do so again?

How do you think they would re-act if he were to attempt this alliance again?

 

[Teldorei]

maybe she becomes softer (like vereesa she was even considering joining horde!)

 

[Razosh]

We could always hope she becomes softer but at this moment that just feels wishful.

 

[Teldorei]

and i compeletely agree about modera with Heinvers,she is first "angry" and "sad" about the purge and then comes to isle of thunder as a commander of kirin tor offensive

 

[Heinvers]

Turning this around a bit, how do you think the Leader of Silvermoon feel? Do you think they ever want to go back after these events? I mean if Varian could talk peace negotiations before, could he not do so again?

How do you think they would re-act if he were to attempt this alliance again?

I would say that it definitely needs another try from both sides. Plus that Dalaran and Silvermoon have been friends for 2000 years which I'm sure the elves haven't forgotten. So I'm sure that in time the tensions would be put out. Until then as Razosh said it's wishful at best right now

 

[Razosh]

She seems to be like Barristan Selmy who disagreed with Joffreys orders yet did nothing to stop him. Although you could ask if she's loyal or if she's a coward.

 

[Heinvers]

She seems to be like Barristan Selmy who disagreed with Joffreys orders yet did nothing to stop him. Although you could ask if she's loyal or if she's a coward.

Good comparison. Sometimes you gotta think and act for yourself even if that's against your superior's orders. She could have stopped Jaina from doing the purge seeing as she was against it instead of letting her go on with it.

 

[Teldorei]

i can only wish archimonde visits dalaran again(too bad he cannot)