AI Out of the Shadows 3.46

[Moderator]

13:49, 1st Aug 2010
ap0calypse: Rejected

 

[EMPerror]

yaay i love this map, you made my day when i saw it pop u on the map list


imma gonna test it...u could say what was new in THIS beta so we know what to test

 

[JakeCake]

yaay i love this map, you made my day when i saw it pop u on the map list


imma gonna test it...u could say what was new in THIS beta so we know what to test

Thanks, whats new.. hmm.. Pritty much everything, and there are extreamly meany bugs, really Don't report like "This and that spell does not work", just stuff as unrealistic damage(if damage system ****'s up) and such I just like to have something to work with all the time, like a long list of bugs, insteed of me having to go in'n'out all the time .. It's even better if you guys get a good experiance, but ofc. this is nothing compared to the final version..

 

[EMPerror]

well, i played and i found some bugs as u would suppose

First of all... hero mode is bugged. The creeps are extremely strong...well, they are weak but compared to the balance implemented in the map, they are strong (the murlocks that spawn at the beginning have 150+ hp and a lot dps, they are really hard to beat.

Second, the only way to get damage increased is by that club u start with...and it sux. So, if u want to have good dmg u have to sacrifice any means of getting some hp up, and u can go at a max of about 80 dmg, but u die with one hit.

Third, towers dont attack creeps in hero mode

4th, we need more items

5th, i was playing as shaman, finally managed to get enough money for one of those expensive items, and bought it while i was in furbolg mode. I didnt notice that and i went to shaman mode without putting the item down to get it again later. I was really surprised when i didnt see it in the inventory... when i got back to furbolg mode i only had a club.

6th, i have NO idea what happened, but i was killing a hero, and i critted 120, and both of us died (i was on full hp btw) ... and he was dealing like 30 dmg so i surely didnt die to him. Probably a system bug.

Well, that's with the bugs for now... and i really like how u managed to create a wow battlegrounds-like map without using the word "WOW" or "battlegrounds" in the name .

Keep working i think this will be a great map

 

[JakeCake]

well, i played and i found some bugs as u would suppose

First of all... hero mode is bugged. The creeps are extremely strong...well, they are weak but compared to the balance implemented in the map, they are strong (the murlocks that spawn at the beginning have 150+ hp and a lot dps, they are really hard to beat.

Second, the only way to get damage increased is by that club u start with...and it sux. So, if u want to have good dmg u have to sacrifice any means of getting some hp up, and u can go at a max of about 80 dmg, but u die with one hit.

Third, towers dont attack creeps in hero mode

4th, we need more items

5th, i was playing as shaman, finally managed to get enough money for one of those expensive items, and bought it while i was in furbolg mode. I didnt notice that and i went to shaman mode without putting the item down to get it again later. I was really surprised when i didnt see it in the inventory... when i got back to furbolg mode i only had a club.

6th, i have NO idea what happened, but i was killing a hero, and i critted 120, and both of us died (i was on full hp btw) ... and he was dealing like 30 dmg so i surely didnt die to him. Probably a system bug.

Well, that's with the bugs for now... and i really like how u managed to create a wow battlegrounds-like map without using the word "WOW" or "battlegrounds" in the name .

Keep working i think this will be a great map

Thank you, helps a lot.

Some of those 'bugs' are aready known, here is a short reply:

1. In hero-mode creeps are supposed to be strong, and they get hp equal to the number of total players, which mean they have 12 times more hp with 12 players than one. So atm. it's only ment to be played with other players, since bot's are kinda bad healers..(You might wan't to try a healing character "Ghost thingy", "Ent" or "Death Knight")

2. Creeps in Hero mode, do give a LOT of damage, and I'm going to fix that It's just not on my top list atm. since all spawning creeps will be custom made, atm. it's just random level creeps This will be a lot better, trust me

3. They are not supposed to, but they will still attack units from the other team.. The creeps are not supposed to win, just to be the way you gain money/XP

4. More items will come, but from version to version, like this latest version 3.33 from 3.30 added 4 new ones

5. That shaman bug is known, and will be fixed as quick as posible, kinda forgot it Thank you

6. I will check that, never seen it happen for me though

About the WoW thing, I have never played WoW before but I have played some Wc:III maps which might have been inspired by WoW, so maybe your right

_jakeCake

 

[DredLord2]

Very rigged. The trees/ghouls become more powerful than the heros.. the game pretty much becomes 1 hit kill. Towers die to easy, "bin" is spelled wrong, its "been". Also, the abilities are not even close to being balanced, and the trees/ghouls sometimes get stuck when they spawn, so they just sit there and dont attack the other side.

 

[krisserz]

You`ve already put it?

 

[DevilishMonkey]

well first of all i love the map .. i would love to help you test the map and make it even greater ( and such stuff )

i found a bug to .. i Picked Warden and used windwalk .. i attacked a creep but i was still in windwalk .. the whole time :O maybe you can fix that

 

[JakeCake]

Thank you all for your bug report and stuff, it will all be fixed ALSO the gramar (some of the tooltips are from map version 1.xx, which was made when I was not much over 15)

@ DredLord2 I'd be more aware of ballance issues, but the creeps should be very powerful, so there's more than just upgrading your hero.. Also heroes will get less damage but more hp, and a lot better spell damage due to a shortly imported 'Bonus Spell Damage' system which will be way more used in the upcoming versions This should solve some issues and give more focus to spells. For the Creeps goining back: I'm lookin' in to solve it now Hope I come out with a solution ..

@ krisserz: As I stated in this topic, the number of people downloading was simply too low, and I found this section a lot better Also, the most major bugs are reported, so some people might just have some fun playing this version.

@DevilishMonkey: I might team up with someone later, but first when all my ideas are in-game and there seem to be no bugs, first there I might ask for help from other people to improve further So if you would just keep an eye on this, I'm sure I could use some help soon Thank you
Also for the Warden: I'm planing on replacing this Hero with a Druid, or at least remake the spells completely, since they are not very original atm.

 

[EMPerror]

well, the forest side needs an assassin hero, so i suggest keeping this hero but remaking him totaly.

And pls add more dps items (talking about items which grant normal dmg, not spell or whatever) .

 

[JakeCake]

Thanks all a new version is uploaded have fun, and please keep reporting me bugs and sugestions, I could need it.. For example: there is a small area in the center-top where the old shop was, what do YOU suggest that should be there now?

Here is a list of some of the changes to this version:
- 'Spell Bonus Damage' is now showed in the leaderboard
- At end, both sides 'creeps per wave = 0' not only swamp site
- The start shild now gives an 20hp bonus
- In hero mode, players is rewarded 2500 bonus gold at start
- Start money is changed from 100 to 500
- Some tooltips are fixed grammar wise
- Towers posisiton slighly changed
- Neurtal creeps damage-settings set! (like spell damage taken = 1.0 etc.)
- Triggers have been modified to make units spawn at the same time, so the game is less focused on luck
- New system enchant maximum damage by 1 for each 8 points in strenght
- Hopefuly fixed a major bug with the AI buyscript (sold their level 2+ items second after they bought it)
- Two new damage-type items have been added on request
- New system enchant minimum damage by 1 for each 10 points in strenght
- Boss units damage is slightly reduced
- Agility now increases armor
- Agility now affect attack-rate
- Abillity 'Immolation now work again'
- Abillity 'Fire Stike' does not damage self when targeting.. well self xD
- New corodinats for spell damage makes it imposible to damage self or friendly units with spell damage, like with normal attacks
- And a LOT more I failed to remember

 

[hotdog911]

Played your map, it was decent. A few comments: (based on playing a few 5v5's with the AI)

-The game seems to be really easy if you get damage right away. You seem to be able to earn 1800 gold really quick in the beginning and you the just buy a sword and you can 3-4 hit the enemy heroes, resulting in more gold, and so on. Having a ranged hero and getting pure damage allowed me to eventually one shot all the enemy heroes.

-There is no anti-camp system. I was able to sit at the enemy base and one shot them as they spawned. I earned gold this way so quickly it wasn't funny.

Besides those two points, i thought the map was fun. A custom damage system is always nice.

 

[JakeCake]

Played your map, it was decent. A few comments: (based on playing a few 5v5's with the AI)

-The game seems to be really easy if you get damage right away. You seem to be able to earn 1800 gold really quick in the beginning and you the just buy a sword and you can 3-4 hit the enemy heroes, resulting in more gold, and so on. Having a ranged hero and getting pure damage allowed me to eventually one shot all the enemy heroes.

-There is no anti-camp system. I was able to sit at the enemy base and one shot them as they spawned. I earned gold this way so quickly it wasn't funny.

Besides those two points, i thought the map was fun. A custom damage system is always nice.

Point taken, but it is not easy to make smart bots, at least not in wc3 with the use of triggers :S 3.35 will contain somewhat of an anti-camp system thought, mostly because I myself think this is a serious problem ..

I will also try to lower the weapon damage on some of the weapons to give even more focus on spells since with the right weapons you can crit 1000+ damage, highest spell crit I got so far was about 600 damage. All in all, heroes health and damage increases from items might be majorly reduced

 

[krisserz]

For me it`s really nice map. like the system you used. Two things that I don`t like the most:
- number of heroes (make more of them)
- heroes skills (some of them just suck)
There are some language mistakes. There was one at the beginning, but I don`t remember what was it.
Anyway great bonus to the map is AI. They use skills, buy items (you should fix, that when they have full inv they still buy items and the bought ones are being dropped). Anyway it`s really nice map, and I enjoyed playing it. From me 3/5 and vote for approval.

 

[JakeCake]

For me it`s really nice map. like the system you used. Two things that I don`t like the most:
- number of heroes (make more of them)
- heroes skills (some of them just suck)
There are some language mistakes. There was one at the beginning, but I don`t remember what was it.
Anyway great bonus to the map is AI. They use skills, buy items (you should fix, that when they have full inv they still buy items and the bought ones are being dropped). Anyway it`s really nice map, and I enjoyed playing it. From me 3/5 and vote for approval.

I'm not planing on adding a lot more heroes, but I am going to remake every single spell and make them more fun, only problem is that heroes has a maximum of 4 chooseable spells, so unless this is changed heroes will as standard have one passive abillity, one single damage spell(or healing), one AOE spell and one ultimate which can be anything really

So expect completely remade spells for every update, 3.35 contains two new atm.

If any of you knows a good way to give heroes more than four/five spells, then feel free to post your idea in this topic

 

[JakeCake]

Sorry for double posting? But how would you feel about an extra shop where the old one was located where you can buy spells? I have already setted up a system which enables you to use your abillities with hotkeys(F1, F2, F3, F4, F5 and F6) this enables you to have six extra spells, these will only be instant cast spells, so they are only casted on yourself? What are your opinions about this system? Wanna see prof of concept?

 

[krisserz]

Do it and then we will see if it`s good ;P

 

[JakeCake]

The next version will be bigger than I expected, a lot of new features have been added, such as a -reset/-restart command for the host, so the map can be played as many times you like too, without a re-host The new spell-shop as a success in my opinion, with only spells that instantly target your hero ONLY..
So, the reason I'm posting now, is that because of the little hero icon in the top left corner removed, I'm looking for some new 'awesome' way to show the HP of the hero(es). The best would be like if you hold 'Alt' but only for heroes, not creeps .. If anyone have an idea how to do this. Then PLEASE help me out here

Expect to see some beta of these new feutures very soon
A full list of changes will be avaible soon - OtS v3.4+

 

[JakeCake]

Okay, I'm going to roskilde festival tomorrow, and won't be arrond for a week or so. I have done a lot on the map, but did not manage to fix the last bugs, so I have decided to wait untill I'm back home again.

The next version will contains lots of new feautures, such as a new unit-upgrade-system, new hero-hp-system and the new spell shop

See ya all soon

 

[The Blademaster]

Gj

Very good job. Just add more items and this map will be delicious.

 

[EMPerror]

maybe add autocast abilities?

or plain passives which increase crit chance or dodge chance or something along those lines.

 

[JakeCake]

maybe add autocast abilities?

or plain passives which increase crit chance or dodge chance or something along those lines.

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but I have already got rid off the spell shop, and begun to add four unique spells for each hero which can be used on (F1, F2, F3 and F4).. So there will not be a price, since this is not fair in any way..

PLEASE people, keep reporting me suggestions and bugs ty guys

I myself have already written these bugs/suggestions down for me to fix for the next version:
- Boss units deal less damage, and have a lot lower attach-rate
- Bots shall not drop any items on the ground any more
- Bots item buy-system will be improved and they should only sell their worst item, insteed of a random, when their inventory is full
- Upgrade auras shall only affect red/green units no player-minions
- Upgrade auras shall also affect towers (they are only affected by hp for now)
- Spell shop will be removed, and heroes will instead start with 4 unique spells on (F1, F2, F3, F4) (They CAN be passive, and can't be upgraded)
- The yellow 'HP%' over heroes will be located 1.z-axis lower so it fit better in the green hp-bar.

Please report like above, I like it like that (list)

_jakeCake

 

[EMPerror]

a question. Does the spell damage apply to aoe abilities? Like sunwave. I had 3 of those 14k gloves and i was dealing about 150 normal damage, but with the spell i wasnt even dealing 50 dmg (an opponent was the knight with soul spawns, and the sunwave didnt kill them)

 

[JakeCake]

Abillities with damage-text above them is affected by spell-damage, which is not very many atm.

I'm aware of the bug with creeps and the whole upgrade system is already improved for the current version, I will upload it as soon as posible I'm at a friend on my laptop right now, so I can't work on the map.

 

[krisserz]

Have you done AI by your own?

 

[JakeCake]

Have you done AI by your own?

Yes, the AI is done by myself, but is far from done, I plan on doing some script which make each AI act different from each-other. Accturly, many of the system used in this map is some the WcIII:WoW team is using/trying to create, cause I always loved that project and hope to help them with something some day They told me they do not wan't anything with GUI, so I'm also planing on redoing all the GUI to Jass Also to get rid of all the leaks and stuff.

Anyway, here is a new version with some important bug-fixes:
- Boss units has lower damage and a lot lower attack-rate
- The upgrade auras no longer affect player units/minions
- The hp-bar is updated to look better
- Various ballances to bosses & towers
- AI buy-system is a bit improved, but will be even more improved for the very next version
- Many small visual changes you will find fast

And here is a list of what I'd be working on for the next version:
- Each hero-type will gain an extra, either passive or instant-cast abillity on level 5, 10, 15 & 20..
- If posible, I will look into getting some-kind of abillity bar like in World of Warcraft insteed of using the top left hero buttons for this.. (This might not be done for some time as it is not my first priority atm.)
- Creating more spells and make old ones working with the damage-system. So I can finaly get out of the Beta stage

I hope to get some feedback on this version aswell, and of cause on my ideas for the future of the map

 

[krisserz]

How much have taken AI for you? I cannot create one

 

[JakeCake]

Any feedback? Someone :S Please, I'm just looking at the level without anything to do on it right now ..

 

[krisserz]

Hmm have you tried this map on new patch?

 

[JakeCake]

Hmm have you tried this map on new patch?

What new patch, I play it on the one I get from battle.net, but if it's 1.24 Beta patch or something, then no..

 

[EMPerror]

ok a couple of suggestions and bug reports.

I think you should classify items as weapons, armor, gloves and other stuff, meaning you can have only one of each type on you at a given time. That way you wont be able to have 6 clubs at the beginning and one hit your opponents as a wind walked warden (from the forest side).

and a bad bug i found. I misclicked something and dropped an item on the ground. My board with stats was opened at the time, and i noticed something strange : my stats didnt go down. Even tho i left the item, i still had the same damage bonus and spell damage bonus and stuff. Maybe it was just the board, i didnt try it, but yeah, you should fix it.

 

[JakeCake]

ok a couple of suggestions and bug reports.

I think you should classify items as weapons, armor, gloves and other stuff, meaning you can have only one of each type on you at a given time. That way you wont be able to have 6 clubs at the beginning and one hit your opponents as a wind walked warden (from the forest side).

I do not plan on doing this right now, I would need a form of new inventory, and a huge amount of new items then. This might come some day, but not right now.

ok a couple of suggestions and bug reports.
and a bad bug i found. I misclicked something and dropped an item on the ground. My board with stats was opened at the time, and i noticed something strange : my stats didnt go down. Even tho i left the item, i still had the same damage bonus and spell damage bonus and stuff. Maybe it was just the board, i didnt try it, but yeah, you should fix it.

I will fix it, I don't know how since I tried it before, it's something to do with the event(Item Dropped) is called before the acturly item is removed from inventory, so it's one item wrong, so if you drop another, the effect of the first one will fade. I think I got a plan how to fix it, but I'm not at my PC atm. So I don't know if it will work, probably will

Edit: I just played a realy fun map with my friends the other day called WoW Arena, it's great, but I think with some of the systems used in my map, I might be able to use the main Idea of WoW:Arena, and create something good I will see what I can do, I plan on something massive, many arena's with many different modes(FFA, Team battle, 1v1 Turnament, All v Boss Unit(s)), and a lot of new heroes(not like the WoW ones), so all the stuff I learned from OtS will help me make something great hopefuly.

This is just an idea, OtS will always be one of my main projects though. do you like the idea? Like to see the damage-system and such used in some other map with more focus on team-play?

 

[Qab]

I love the map. Nice balanced teams and good prices on upgrades + items. Though i wonder... how do you get enough gold for any of the ultra items? other than not buying anything for 5 minutes, (which I did)?

-AI don't seem to buy many upgrades for their troops. If you constantly buy those, your troops just massacre the AI.

-My guy doesn't appear on the minimap. It makes it tough to fing him when I go to get upgrades for my troops.

I liked the way you lowered everyones health, made it so I could heal fast a fountain.
4.5/(5 - 0.5)

 

[JakeCake]

I love the map. Nice balanced teams and good prices on upgrades + items. Though i wonder... how do you get enough gold for any of the ultra items? other than not buying anything for 5 minutes, (which I did)?

You get the upkeep, so the more money you have, the faster you will gain money and all of a sudden you will have 50.000 gold Just try not to die, since you lose 1/4 of your gold then And also, if the other team upgrade their creeps/wave, you will gain way more gold since each unit gives the same amount of gold.

-AI don't seem to buy many upgrades for their troops. If you constantly buy those, your troops just massacre the AI.

The AI buyscript is improved a lot for the next version, which is almost ready for release

-My guy doesn't appear on the minimap. It makes it tough to fing him when I go to get upgrades for my troops.

Use the 'Esc' key, if your hero is not selected, he/she will be if he/she is already selected, or you press twice while not selected, the camera will pan to your hero. You get used to it after a few minutes, and will use it all the time

I liked the way you lowered everyones health, made it so I could heal fast a fountain.
4.5/(5 - 0.5)

Thank you, I will fix everything as fast as posible, I'm glad you liked it

 

[JakeCake]

A new version 3.46 with some bug-fixes and more is released, check the change-log on first page #0 under change-log

 

[krisserz]

When I as the good ones and I choosen my hero my camera has gone (panned) to the enemy base.

And HP bars are ugly... This wasn`t good change.

 

[JakeCake]

When I as the good ones and I choosen my hero my camera has gone (panned) to the enemy base.

I shall fix this for the next version

And HP bars are ugly... This wasn`t good change.

Okay, I like it pretty much myself, so can I just get someone elses opinion on it too? If everyone else feel the same way as you do, then I sure shall change it

 

[krisserz]

The HP bar imo is spamming, and using memory (every 0.0something sec). I think cause of this it was kinda lagging sometimes.

Btw on next update I will fully review it.

 

[JakeCake]

The HP bar imo is spamming, and using memory (every 0.0something sec). I think cause of this it was kinda lagging sometimes.

Btw on next update I will fully review it.

A full review would be nice, but I doubt the next update are coming any time soon, since I have started another project soon to be revealed. Anyway, this new project uses a lot of the same system used in OtS, but updated, and new spells and heroes which can easily be imported. As I said the next version will not come anytime soon, but it will be huge, and hopefuly for those who experiance any lag, that problem will be solved with updated triggers.

I will post something here when I'm ready to show off my new project. And I will of cause not drop this one, Since it's totaly different

 

[JakeCake]

My new project is up on the Hive in a quite good version already I would be extreamly glad if some of you would review and post some feedback on it

Here is a link

 

[JakeCake]

This project is now outdated and will no longer be updated, but the systems created for it lead to another project of mine, a much bigger one: "Corruption"; Please take a look (it's in my signature).. All systems from this map are transfered and well updated to Corruption RPG 2.0+.. I need beta testers now! please

 

[Freelancah]

Seems nice, lemme try it out Hope I & my bro will like it so we can finally get a decent pvp map instead of that damned dota!

 

[Cweener]

Mass Purging Template Version 3.0
Reject.

Reason for not approving:
The tiling was bad in many places.
The triggers were leaky, and some even ineffecient.