Abortion

[SuPa-]

Yeah... abortion

This just touches my heart

It was a bulletin put up on myspace

Yeah. not really factual but it's still touching :')

___________________________________

Month One

Hi Mommy!

I am only 8 inches long

but I have all my organs.

I love the sound of your voice.

Every time I hear it

I wave my arms and legs.

The sound of your heart beat

is my favorite lullaby.






Month Two

Mommy

today I learned how to suck my thumb.

If you could see me

you could definitely tell that I am a baby.

I'm not big enough to survive outside my home though.

It is so nice and warm in here.








Month Three

You know what Mommy

I'm a boy!!

I hope that makes you happy.

I always want you to be happy.

I don't like it when you cry.

You sound so sad.

It makes me sad too

and I cry with you even though

you can't hear me.





Month Four

Mommy

my hair is starting to grow.

It is very short and fine

but I will have a lot of it.

I spend a lot of my time exercising.

I can turn my head and curl my fingers and toes

and stretch my arms and legs.

I am becoming quite good at it too.




Month Five

You went to the doctor today.

Mommy, he lied to you.

He said that I'm not a baby.

I am a baby Mommy, your baby.

I think and feel.

Mommy, what's abortion?








Month Six

I can hear that doctor again.

I don't like him.

He seems cold and heartless.

Something is intruding my home.

The doctor called it a needle.

Mommy what is it? It burns!

Please make him stop!

I can't get away from it!

Mommy! HELP me!







Month Seven


Mommy

I am okay.

I am in Jesus's arms.

He is holding me.

He told me about abortion.

Why didn't you want me Mommy?




Every Abortion Is Just . . .



One more heart that was stopped.

Two more eyes that will never see.

Two more hands that will never touch.

Two more legs that will never run.

One more mouth that will never speak.

_______________________________________________

Yeah, you people may be like "WTF?!?!? ABORTION'S PERFECTLY FINE! IT'S THE MOTHER'S CHOICE IF A LIVING THING LIVES OR DIES!"... well... oh well, please don't say that or I'll devour your brain

Anyway, also don't say I'm some religious freak. I'm an atheist

If you think abortion's fine, well... I won't try to force my ideas onto you... unless you get me all rawr-rawr

 

[Sansui]

This thing is completely stupid, if you find it touching then i have a bridge i would like to sell.


umm the baby isnt 8 inches long in the first month...
at two months its around 1.2 inches...
at two months, a fetus can not suck its thumb and looks like this most likely a little more alien.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/10_weeks_pregnant.jpg

also A fetus should be considered a parasite until the point at which it can sustain life outside of its host.
35-40 weeks
thats about 7+months

almost no abortions are done at 6months time. (these are usually only done to save the mother.)
most are done within 1-3months.90%

at this time the fetus has no pain until around the end of th 5th month of life. giving an early estimate.

some of those abortions are one more serial killer off the streets, one more rapist gone, one more child molester snuffed out, one more lowly drug pusher taken out of the playgrounds.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I really don't mind what you said, but this

some of those abortions are one more serial killer off the streets, one more rapist gone, one more child molester snuffed out, one more lowly drug pusher taken out of the playgrounds.

works both ways.

A lot of this is fluff or fiction. In the first month of pregnany, babies don't even have eyes yet, nonetheless "all his organs".

 

[donut3.5]

Yeah, none of this makes sense. At all.
Sounds like pro-life propaganda to me..
And the conservatives don't mind when we kill in war, as they people soldiers kill are another "heart stopped".. how hypocritical.
--donut3.5--

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I'm not going to sell my view like I did the last time abortion was discussed, but really. The author needs to do his homework. Either that or he is trying to smuggle in lies in an attempt to catch someone's heart.

 

[Hakeem]

I gotta admit, it seems naturally easier to accept abortion the younger it is.
That said, abortion should only be used to save the mothers life, in my opinion. No excuses.

 

[JarrardKO]

It's ashame no one really knows when a fetus is truly alive and thinking. I mean, I can't even remember what I did when I was 1 through 4 years old, and everyone else I've asked can't recall any memories from that age either. What would make me think have a good memory/self awareness/active mind when I wasn't even born?

Also, the fetus knows nothing. It's not educated enough to know what a doctor is or what a heart is.

Pretty stupid read tbh, it's looks almost like one of them Christian fundamentalists wrote it.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yeah, very extreme christian fundamentalists.

Personally, I still think it's the mothers choice. If they want an abortion, who the fuck am I to tell them that they can't?

 

[SuPa-]

I hate when I have to quote myself because someone doesn't read

Yeah. not really factual but it's still touching

Most likely one did lol.

 

[JarrardKO]

Yes we know, it's just the fact that this is one of those Christian guys who are spreading the whole *ABORTION IS MURDER, MURDEEEEEEERRRRRR* message which is a little annoying.

 

[Elenai]

Ironic that the concept behind the poem (not the physical body facts themselves) Is quite true.

Of course you already know my steel vault conviction about this godless act of sheer evil. So I wont spill my own blood and heart in the off topic forum.

It is very touching though.

-Every Abortion Is Just . . .-

-One more heart that was stopped.-

-Two more eyes that will never see.-

-Two more hands that will never touch.-

-Two more legs that will never run.-

-One more mouth that will never speak.-

These lines especially are true.

 

[Dr00d]

Stop bein' a pussy SuPa-. -.-

 

[GST_Nemisis]

almost no abortions are done at 6months time. (these are usually only done to save the mother.)
most are done within 1-3months.90%

this is true because after this time it become dangerous for the mother (in normal curcumstances) and more unethical because of the size of the baby, ie beating heart or whatever...i dunno, but i do know that usually it is before this time and that depending on how you classify a baby as "alive" this is the cut off point.

in my personal opinoin i think abortion is ok in extreem circumstances and when done very early into the pregnacy, so in a situation where the zygote is considered as cells instead of organs.

 

[Elenai]

GST's view is alot more humane.

At least give the baby some respect, name it and give it a burial if you must kill it. Thats what I believe. Though I still believe with all my soul that abortion is evil at even the earliest stage. Mostly because there are so many better and kinder options that preserve the sanctity of life.

 

[donut3.5]

http://www.roguerobot.com/comic/20061004.jpg
--donut3.5--

 

[Moontraveler]

I wasn't moved at all by the poem... (Mostly because it could somehow think (To me intelligence doesn't come untill someone is born.)) But like Elenai I think you should give the child a proper burial after it's killed...

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I wasn't moved at all by the poem... (Mostly because it could somehow think (To me intelligence doesn't come untill someone is born.)) But like Elenai I think you should give the child a proper burial after it's killed...

So you don't like the idea that the embryo/fetus can think, but you would give it a proper burial? I'm not saying your view is wrong or anything, it just strikes me as odd, like holding a funeral for your kidney.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Personnally I think forcing a sixteen year old girl to be a mother is terrible

If a woman doesn't want the baby (and it's mostly always for a good reason, meaning she's not ready and he'll have a crappy life), especially if she got it from being raped or is extremly young, she usually gets abortion early.

Abortion is a good thing, when it's done for good reasons (which is the case extremly often) and can stop a young mother who's not ready for a child who will probably have a bad life anyway from even experiencing such a nightmare.

Don't say it's a terrible act of murder. A foetus is not a being. It can become one, but it isn't. It doesn't feel pain. It doesn't have a conscience. It doesn't have dreams, or thoughts. It is not the murder of a human being.

 

[brad.dude03]

But, to play the Devil's Adocate, if you will, why not let the child live and put it up for adoption? The baby will lead a relatively normal life, the mother doesn't have to cope with raising a child when she's not ready.

 

[Elenai]

EXACTLY!!! There are better options for the child. Like adoption. And it helps both sides of the story without the unneeded death of the baby.

 

[brad.dude03]

It's true. With adoption, everybody wins. The Child gets to live, someone who perhaps can't have a child on their own gets to bring one into their family, the unwed teenage mother gets to pull her life back together.

Everybody wins.

 

[Sansui]

Adoption doesnt work like that LOL.
the kids will bounce from foster home to foster home having a shitty life.
There is already too many people in this situation.

Adoption is worse than abortion,

 

[donut3.5]

Adoption is worse than abortion.

Debatable. Have you ever been aborted and adopted so you could have a legitimate case?
But anyways, the teenage mother often wont get her life pulled together as simply as you might state it. First, she has to miss school for most of the duration that she is pregnant, pushing her academic level back a year. Not to mention socially, I presume it would be something hard to recover from, especially with labels being slapped onto people daily.
Not to mention, I think I can also say pushing a baby out of you can't be the most comfortable thing, and the mother would overall suffer more pain than a prenatal fetus.
--donut3.5--

 

[PurplePoot]

Next thing you know, fundamentalists are going to say that if women don't get pregnant with every single egg, they're murdering because the egg could have become a human... And then all the kids all those would-be humans could have had are murdered too... Jeez, I guess you'd better get laid pretty often if you don't want to be commiting genocide! ><

Anyways, in my opinion, men should stay out of this. It affects women, it's their decision/debate, really.

So you don't like the idea that the embryo/fetus can think, but you would give it a proper burial? I'm not saying your view is wrong or anything, it just strikes me as odd, like holding a funeral for your kidney.

R.I.P Kidney =(

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

R.I.P Kidney =(

It served me well..

 

[donut3.5]

Next thing you know, fundamentalists are going to say that if women don't get pregnant with every single egg, they're murdering because the egg could have become a human... And then all the kids all those would-be humans could have had are murdered too... Jeez, I guess you'd better get laid pretty often if you don't want to be commiting genocide! ><

Anyways, in my opinion, men should stay out of this. It affects women, it's their decision/debate, really.

R.I.P Kidney =(

And then for every sperm not turned into a child, that is yet another murder! Masturbation is genocide!
--donut3.5--

 

[Hakeem]

Personally, I still think it's the mothers choice. If they want an abortion, who the fuck am I to tell them that they can't?

You aren't. The baby is. But it doesn't have a say in the matter. If it did, we all know what it would choose.

Next thing you know, fundamentalists are going to say that if women don't get pregnant with every single egg, they're murdering because the egg could have become a human... And then all the kids all those would-be humans could have had are murdered too... Jeez, I guess you'd better get laid pretty often if you don't want to be commiting genocide! ><

No, an egg cannot become a human. Neither can a sperm cell. Once they meet, it becomes a (potential, if you prefer) human.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

No, an egg cannot become a human. Neither can a sperm cell. Once they meet, it becomes a (potential, if you prefer) human.

And it has a potential to meet, therefore having a potential to become a human. Tadah!

 

[Hakeem]

Half of a potential, potential, human is not a human. It's not even half human.
Potential doesn't count. It depends on when you see the fetus/embryo/zygote as human.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Half of a potential, potential, human is not a human. It's not even half human.
Potential doesn't count. It depends on when you see the fetus/embryo/zygote as human.

To see it as human would be a shady topic, hence causing the storm of controversy.

 

[Hakeem]

Check the topic.

 

[donut3.5]

Of course, by saying the egg and sperm have a potential to meet also says the baby only has a potential to be born. Thus is the case of abortions. But if you're arguing that that is murder, then why isn't an egg or sperm not turning into a child any different?
--donut3.5--

 

[Hakeem]

Because once they meet, it is a growing organism that has human DNA. Many say it's human whereas many others say it's only a potential human.
I'd say that it's human because it has human DNA and is alive.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I'd say that it's human because it has human DNA and is alive.

Sperm cells have human DNA and are alive.

 

[Hakeem]

They don't have complete human DNA.

 

[Shados]

They don't have complete human DNA.

There's viable zygotes with to many or to few chromosones, so some of them don't have complete human DNA either. Are they not human?


-*meow*

 

[Hakeem]

If it has enough chromosomes to naturally develop into something that's very much human, then it's got enough DNA to classify it as human.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

So basically, the argument that the foetus could have been human is utter bullshit and serves no purpose?

I'm cool with that.

Point is, abortion is not murder.

 

[Xarwin]

Abortion is Killing.

A foetus becomes a child.
A child is a human.
A child is life.

The abortion lies between the heart of unrespectful parents, humans, or teenagers... Where is their heart?

Abortion is like war. We just kill innocent people. And in this case, children..
We're screwing life in each way. We keep on killing without a reason.

If you think this is bullshit then you're possibly a murderer.

~- Heero

 

[GST_Nemisis]

A foetus becomes a child.
A child is a human.
A child is life.

if i scratch of some of my skin cells, or if i cut myself and i bleed a little i am killing my cells, but im not a murderer. if i cut off my head i guess i would be murdering myself in a way. if two gamites join to form a zygote (first few cells of a baby) and that zygote is killed there hasnt been a murder. if a foetus has its head cut off there has been a murder. thats how i feel about the whole thing. of course, i wouldnt want to kill my cells anyway and i wouldnt want zygote cells to be killed needlessly, but in extreem situations i can understand why it happens.

 

[Xarwin]

You parents could even made an abortion on you,
so then you wouldn't be here.
Think of that, everyone.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

You parents could even made an abortion on you,
so then you wouldn't be here.
Think of that, everyone.

meh....i guess thats just the way it is, if i werent born at least i wouldnt be mad about it.

 

[brad.dude03]

Except that most of us weren't concieved by accident, and were actually wanted. My parents wanted to have a baby, and therefor I was born.

 

[Hakeem]

So basically, the argument that the foetus could have been human is utter bullshit and serves no purpose?

I'm cool with that.

Point is, abortion is not murder.

Anything 'could have been' so it pointless to argue about it.
The argument is whether or not it is human. If it is human, then it is murder.

if i scratch of some of my skin cells, or if i cut myself and i bleed a little i am killing my cells, but im not a murderer. if i cut off my head i guess i would be murdering myself in a way. if two gamites join to form a zygote (first few cells of a baby) and that zygote is killed there hasnt been a murder. if a foetus has its head cut off there has been a murder. thats how i feel about the whole thing. of course, i wouldnt want to kill my cells anyway and i wouldnt want zygote cells to be killed needlessly, but in extreem situations i can understand why it happens.

Your skin cells and organs wont develop naturally into a human. It's a piece of human, no need to hold a funeral for a kidney.
A zygote on the other hand will naturally develop into a human.
Is an ant not an animal since it is smaller than our organs?
Size doesn't matter. It may be a very small human but it's still human.

 

[Elenai]

Indeed that is true Hakeem.

It is a human life. Not a human body part. It is a human, it is an individual, it is a living thing, it has human DNA, it has a human mind, it has human characteristics, it will grow up to be apart of scociety (or not but still its got the rest of the requirements).

It hasnt commited crimes. It hasnt commited an act of war. It hasnt done anything to deserve death.

Thus it is human, and it hasnt done anything to deserve death.

Why then do we have the right to kill it? We should not.

The only thing 98% of aborted babies did was become an "inconvenience" and just because it becomes inconvenient, Doesn't give anyone the right to rip it apart in cold blood.

"To kill a man who can defend himself is murder....to kill a baby !trapped in the womb or not! Is a blasphemy against all that humanity is."

How could someone be so cruel and heartless and wicked as to destroy their own son or daughter while inside one of the safest places on earth, for a mere....inconvenience? Thats a bad world view to have.

Abortion is not justified at least 98% of the time. The other 2% are sketchy at best.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

A zygote on the other hand will naturally develop into a human.

well, in a way i think that a zygote isnt an induvidual yet, i think that it is a combination of the mother and father and not its own being until it starts to develop recogniseable features. in this way i think they can choose to keep or abort the baby at this stage.

 

[Elenai]

Thats wrong. That is evil. Just because it isnt an "individual" in the sense of emotional development and ect doesnt mean it isnt a human.


See this post
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=329511&postcount=45

 

[Hakeem]

The only thing 98% of aborted babies did was become an "inconvenience" and just because it becomes inconvenient, Doesn't give anyone the right to rip it apart in cold blood.
[...]
Abortion is not justified at least 98% of the time. The other 2% are sketchy at best.

I'm going to have to request links to trustable statistics.

well, in a way i think that a zygote isnt an induvidual yet, i think that it is a combination of the mother and father and not its own being until it starts to develop recogniseable features. in this way i think they can choose to keep or abort the baby at this stage.

Yes, it's very hard to think of a tiny ball of cells, that's too small to see, as human. Still, I wouldn't support their decision to kill it.

Abortion should only be used to save the mother's life. No excuses.

Of course, this is assuming you consider the baby human. Does anyone have a reason why it is not? And read the rest of this thread to make sure your reason wasn't already stated.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

Thats wrong. That is evil. Just because it isnt an "individual" in the sense of emotional development and ect doesnt mean it isnt a human.

pffft, i dont care. thats what i think and considering the fact that some people dont consider the level of development in the baby at all its not really an extreem view. cry more.

 

[Hakeem]

some people dont consider the level of development in the baby at all

I recommend those people watch Inside the Womb on National Geographic. It's human somewhere in development. I'd say it's human pretty early on, but some people might want to say it's only human when it gets brain cells.