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Abortion

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98% was the estimate used by others in the thread. But I say its pretty close. The other 2% is also an estimate. These are medical "mother death" situations.

But hold on I'm searching for statistics.

EDIT: I found some here but I'm looking for more. These ones seem quite extensive and well gathered.
http://www.abortiontv.com/Misc/AbortionStatistics.htm#Abortions Worldwide
 
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So you'd force a 14 year old girl to have child she got from being raped?

The child would have terrible life, and so would the mother. Both would live hell, and I'm sure abortion is taken early in such a case, which means it was NOT a human being.

There's a difference between a bunch of cells that could be a human and a living foetus that's already considered conscient.

Think of the baby. Think of the mother. Think of what they would both live.

Bannin abortion is a stupid and cruel idea. It's the mother's choice. You have NO right to choose for her.
 
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Quit with the religious stuff, please, people. Church and state are separated, remember?

The only thing 98% of aborted babies did was become an "inconvenience" and just because it becomes inconvenient, Doesn't give anyone the right to rip it apart in cold blood.
[citation needed], as wikipedia would justly put it. As for the later-provided link, that's not 2%.

Indeed that is true Hakeem.

It is a human life. Not a human body part. It is a human, it is an individual, it is a living thing, it has human DNA, it has a human mind, it has human characteristics, it will grow up to be apart of scociety (or not but still its got the rest of the requirements).

It hasnt commited crimes. It hasnt commited an act of war. It hasnt done anything to deserve death.

Thus it is human, and it hasnt done anything to deserve death.

Why then do we have the right to kill it? We should not.
Of course, this is assuming you consider the baby human. Does anyone have a reason why it is not? And read the rest of this thread to make sure your reason wasn't already stated.
Your skin cells and organs wont develop naturally into a human. It's a piece of human, no need to hold a funeral for a kidney.
A zygote on the other hand will naturally develop into a human.
Is an ant not an animal since it is smaller than our organs?
Size doesn't matter. It may be a very small human but it's still human.
Bringing us back to my egg point.

Abortion should only be used to save the mother's life. No excuses.
If you were raped, how would you like having a kid from it?

And the mother has the right to choose for the baby? The baby would choose life. All babies would.
I'm not sure the baby is able to 'choose' anything by that point... If you're going to use would haves and could haves, again see my egg point.

To repeat myself, please cut with the religious crap...
 
Adoption is not that much better.

Like it was said before, the child goes from foster to foster home (which sucks as a way of living), meanwhile living with the fact that he doesn't know his mother, and knowing she either didn't want him or could not take care of him, abandonning him to a life he doesn't like.

Sure, there are perfect adoptions that go well, but not always. And not many people want to adopt a fifteen year old child.
 
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First off don't call religion crap. I will not stand for that. Religious people have just as much right to have a say in the government as secular people do. And the seperation of church and state was made so that the government would not interfere with religous freedom by making a state religion. Not abolish religion from government. And besides the secular world has no quams about shutting God away from the political structure. (ACLU)

But back on topic.

Those percentages were an estimate. Not a pin-point accurate laser guided statistic. However, it is accurate enough. And the concept remains true. Most babies are aborted because they become an "inconvenience".

And an egg and sperm is not a human. A human is what happens when the two merge to form a zygote. A sperm/egg is a sex cell like a skin cell. But a zygote is an extremely undeveloped child. To kill it is not only murder. But infanticide.

Abortion from rape victims are few. But even still. Would I force a 14 year old to have the child?.....I would not force her. But she should have the child. And if it were up to me she would. Because it is not the babies fault he/she was concieved that way. If I was raped (and female) I would of course be an emotional wreck. But if a child was concieved I would have it. Hopefully to raise it into a good person. Not kill it.

And adoption is alot better than death. Adoption is not as horrific as you think. Adoption is succesful. There are indeed failures. But it still does not justify abortion.
Raising the child is probably the best solution.

And a baby would choose life if it could. Just because it cant does not mean you should automaticaly deem it unfit to live.

Banning abortion is a stupid and cruel idea? ABORTION is a cruel and stupid idea. Taking a developing human child, sticking a vacuum tube up the mothers vagina, sucking the baby apart, ripping limb from limb, and then vacuuming it into a container to be incinerated like it was nothing more than a piece of feces. THATS the cruelest thing a person could ever do to another human being.
 
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Banning abortion is a stupid and cruel idea? ABORTION is a cruel and stupid idea. Taking a developing human child, sticking a vacuum tube up the mothers vagina, sucking the baby apart, ripping limb from limb, and then vacuuming it into a container to be incinerated like it was nothing more than a piece of feces. THATS the cruelest thing a person could ever do to another human being.

its not that bad, the baby wouldnt feel a thing. i can think of much worse things too. also feces is poo, i doubt the baby will become poo when burnt, but hey ive never seen it done so i cant confirm that. and i personally dont consider a feotus a human being until late into the pregnacy.
 
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K... I've barely read any of the stuff posted because really, I don't want to wade through 3 pages of shit rofl :p

Just think of it like this. Out of all the sperm that could get into an egg, that one sperm made it. Out of the thousands. Out of all the months of years your parents chose to have sex, they chose that month of that year. If it was any other, you wouldn't be here right now. Sometimes we take that very slim chance for granted. Same thing for failed births. Think of what it would be like to have never existed. Incomprehensable, in my opinion. How would you like it if you found out your parents had even CONSIDERED to get an abortion? Just digest that question, and then give me a suitable answer. I'd rather move from foster home from foster home than have never lived a day out in the world. A fetus is a living thing. It has organic (LIVING) material that is of it own self. Do you consider plants to not be alive just because they have no consciousness or brain? I doubt that
 
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Of course a baby doesnt turn into poo. It is thrown away like it was poo.

But I personally believe a fetus is a human. Because you do not become human. You are concieved that way. A fetus has all the requirements to be a human.

Human DNA:
Human body:
Human mind:
Human characteristics:
Human relatives:
ect.

And not only is it a human. It's alive.

Supa is indeed correct.
 
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How would you like it if you found out your parents had even CONSIDERED to get an abortion? Just digest that question, and then give me a suitable answer.

tbh it really wouldnt bother me, its a fact of life that sometimes a baby is completely unsuitable and will not have a happy life. a friend of mine got pregnant and had an abortion when she was 16, she wanted to go to uni and study but a baby wouldnt allow it. not only that but she didnt see the father anymore and she would have been alone with her parents, trying to raise a child, get a job, study and she was 16.....many people need to be ready to have kids and need to be in the right point in their life too. i think its totally understandable.
 
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Understandable? Lets compare with a different concept.

Scenario: You are 23 and you have a sick, bed ridden, crippled grandpa that you have to take care of (no one else but you can take care of him). You want to go to a colledge. But your need to care for your grandpa wont allow it. SO you kill him by chopping him up in his sleep. All because he was an inconvenience. Is that the right? Is that acceptable?
 
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And the mother has the right to choose for the baby?
Yes, what do you think the mother does to parent the child for a long time? She makes decisions for the child. She chooses what you eat. She chooses what rules you follow. She chooses your name. Early on, she chooses what clothes you wear, where you go, what you do. And don't even try to tell me at 2 years old you were calling all the shots.
Also, its not like the baby even has the capacity to care. In retrospect, sure, I'm glad I wasn't aborted but what did I care then? I wouldn't feel the pain, just as I don't feel the pain of when I first scraped my knee. Just as if I was butchered today, no matter how painful it is now, it doesn't matter the second after I die. Once the baby dies, its dead.
Another interesting point: If abortion is murder, is a miscarriage accidental homicide? Furthermore, if the child is born with a genetic disorder, or HIV, you could blame the person for passing on the disease. By birthing a child, this child has the potential to not only die from AIDS itself, but pass it on, so by letting the child live, are you murdering others? And if it had any sort of serious disorder, it could live miserably. However, these are all really big IF's. But so are:
IF the child will be adopted.
IF the child will lead a happy life.
IF the child even lives normally.
Elenai, your main point so far is IF the child wants to live or not. You don't know that they are one way or another. I'm sure if a doctor asked the baby, well, do you want to live? The baby wouldn't A.) Understand, but more importantly, B.) have a developed enough mind to even consider processing the decision. Again, this last part I cannot confirm, as I didn't process deep thought while in the womb.
And also, if we're bringing religion into this, if the baby is in Jesus's arms, as said by the original post, that's good for the baby. Spending a lifetime in heaven == good. Life <<<<<<<<<<< Heaven. The point of living as a Christian is to live a good life, accept Jesus as your savior, then go to heaven and spend it there for eternity. If the baby goes there anyways, he can skip the whole life part and get on with the part worth experiencing.
EDIT
How would you like it if you found out your parents had even CONSIDERED to get an abortion?
Well, if they had a good reason, such as they thought I wasn't going to be happy, or my mother wasn't going to be happy, I would be perfectly understanding. I would die to keep my family alive, happy, and healthy.
--donut3.5--
 
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Is that the right? Is that acceptable?

well the thing about this is that the grandfather probably isnt going to live long anyways and he has laready had a life, so yeh i dont see why someone who has had a life should stop someonelses. i personnaly would get a proffesional care person for him, otherwise poison in his food or jumping out of a cupboard and shouting "blarg im a ghost woooooo!" in an attempt to give him a heart attack are good options too.

and saying about adoption is not useful it is not the answer mainly because A, people want to have their own kids instead of someone elses, hence IVF and B, people dont want to give up their kids to a stranger, they would prefer not to have kids at all.
 
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It is still a living human and it is still unjustified to kill it. It does not matter what it feels the second you kill it you've commited not only murder but infanticide.

And just because the mother makes decisions for the child does not mean the mother can kill it. Heck if thats the case you are trying to make any mother with a kid can kill it any time she pleases no matter what age it is up until its a legal adult....but no you can't because its murder.

And even still a person should experience life and have a chance to serve the Lord on Earth before dying. Life is precious, God especially knows that.

GST:.......killing your grandpa is..acceptable? Thats just dishonorable.
 
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GST:.......killing your grandpa is..acceptable? Thats just dishonorable.

in your opinion maybe, if i were holding my 23 year old grandaughter down i would probably get proffesional help myself instead of being a lazy bum who would prefer to destroy her life than do something on your own. i hate bitter old people that try to ruin other peoples lives because they are old and they know it, if i were like that i would probably take a crap load of drugs all day long. also if the grandfather cant afford proffesional help its his own stupid fault for wasting his life and not saving for retirement; in that situation just claim a whole load of benifits from the government. i would prefer to leech off the system than my grandaughter.
 
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Yes, life is indeed precious, the gift and curse of consciousness being its greatest selling point.

Beyond that, life is cruel.

I don't really care about religion of any sort, seems to me it was more like a social control experiment than anything else, so I fully support abortions.

Ofcourse, you could ask:"If it was you, would you want to be killed while you were in your mothers womb? At that point, my mind would not have developed to the point of being able to make a decision, let alone think, so it is not really a viable question. And if I was able to think and make a decision at that point, while knowing what life I would have ahead of me, sure, I would have taken the blue pill and friggin died instead of going through a lot of shit, only to die of old age being bitter and hateful of all life.

[Going a bit offtopic beyond this point]

We should start killing people who are mentally handicapped, it is a waste of resources.

We've had wars over the control of resources just so little handicapped timmy could get his wheelchair recharged, while being blissfully ignorant of the much more useful minds of the soldiers being snuffed out.
 
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Bringing us back to my egg point.
An egg wont naturally develop into a human. A zygote will.
If you were raped, how would you like having a kid from it?
I'd feel worse if I killed it.
Adoption is not that much better.

Like it was said before, the child goes from foster to foster home (which sucks as a way of living), meanwhile living with the fact that he doesn't know his mother, and knowing she either didn't want him or could not take care of him, abandonning him to a life he doesn't like.
You don't know what that person feel or thinks. Maybe they felt it was a perfect life. Don't dismiss adoption.
Yes, what do you think the mother does to parent the child for a long time? She makes decisions for the child. She chooses what you eat. She chooses what rules you follow. She chooses your name. Early on, she chooses what clothes you wear, where you go, what you do. And don't even try to tell me at 2 years old you were calling all the shots.
The baby is forced to do those things in order to survive.
Another interesting point: If abortion is murder, is a miscarriage accidental homicide?
It can't be helped. Accept it. Nature can't be put in jail.
Furthermore, if the child is born with a genetic disorder, or HIV, you could blame the person for passing on the disease. By birthing a child, this child has the potential to not only die from AIDS itself, but pass it on, so by letting the child live, are you murdering others? And if it had any sort of serious disorder, it could live miserably.
No. It's not the parents fault. And some people are resistant to AIDS.

And I said would choose. Of course the baby can't make such a decision. IF the baby COULD make the decision, it WOULD choose life.
 
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Is that the right? Is that acceptable?
Don't try and define what is right versus what is wrong.
What is right and what is wrong are completely opinion based, there is no saying in what is and what isn't. Terrorists view their ways as virtuous. They don't do it to be evil, they do it because they believe it is for the good of humanity. So, since they think that they are morally right, are they? you may say no, but in turn, does that make them morally wrong? So who does define what's morally right or morally wrong? The majority of the people? If that is so, was slavery morally right, when the majority of the people thought it was? And if you pull God into this, or Jesus, saying that they are the ultimate word of what is right and wrong, you are officially saying that everyone who is not a Christian is morally wrong.
EDIT:
It can't be helped. Accept it. Nature can't be put in jail.
Someone is walking along, and trips on a stick that fell due to a natural force called gravity, and lands on a small infant, killing it. That person would be arrested for accidental homicide. Same thing, only with the baby in the stomach.
--donut3.5--
 
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I'd feel worse if I killed it.
Worse than knowing that the kid was likely to have some big problems? Would you like to be the product of a rape?
You don't know what that person feel or thinks. Maybe they felt it was a perfect life. Don't dismiss adoption.
Look at the happy adoption stories. Then look at the unhappy adoption stories. Which ones do you see more frequently? I know several people who are adopted, and more than half of them think their lives suck, mainly because they were adopted.

It can't be helped. Accept it. Nature can't be put in jail.
Well, then, why do people put down dogs that bite when defending their houses? And I'm sure you could get a nutcase lawyer to turn a miscarriage into murder.

No. It's not the parents fault. And some people are resistant to AIDS.
How is that the parents' fault? Many people have AIDS or HIV and don't know about it until many years after they contract it. And yes, some people are resilient to AIDS, but what are the odds that this specific child will be?
 
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Right and Wrong are not opinion based. There are absolute truths in this world and right and wrong is one of them.

Moral right and wrong are built into humans. Humans just ignore it because they are sinful.

And the Bible is a perfect judge of what is right and wrong. And even if I did pull God and Christ into this debate WHO ARE YOU! To tell me that I am saying that non-christians are anti-moral. Because you would be utterly mistaken.
Do not start a religion debate with me.

And I already know I'm arrogant.

But the point remains. Abortion is still unjustified.
 
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EDIT:
And the bible is a perfect judge of what is right and wrong. And even if I did pull God and Christ into this debate WHO ARE YOU! To tell me that I am saying that non-christians are anti-moral. Because you would be utterly mistaken.
And do not start a religion debate with me.
Too late :D
I never said you did, I said the Christians did. What do you think the Inquisition and the Crusades was all about? Christians going under God's name to convert sinners because God is the only word of Right and Wrong. However, if God is saying killing under his name is alright, then why not abort children under his name? All people are doing is saying I am doing this under the name of God, and suddenly murder, torture, and other becomes OK.
And if you're saying that that's old and irrelevant, why would God ever change his word of right and wrong, if he has always been right and wrong?
--donut3.5--
 
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Yes, life is indeed precious, the gift and curse of consciousness being its greatest selling point.

Beyond that, life is cruel.

I don't really care about religion of any sort, seems to me it was more like a social control experiment than anything else, so I fully support abortions.

Ofcourse, you could ask:"If it was you, would you want to be killed while you were in your mothers womb? At that point, my mind would not have developed to the point of being able to make a decision, let alone think, so it is not really a viable question. And if I was able to think and make a decision at that point, while knowing what life I would have ahead of me, sure, I would have taken the blue pill and friggin died instead of going through a lot of shit, only to die of old age being bitter and hateful of all life.

[Going a bit offtopic beyond this point]

We should start killing people who are mentally handicapped, it is a waste of resources.

We've had wars over the control of resources just so little handicapped timmy could get his wheelchair recharged, while being blissfully ignorant of the much more useful minds of the soldiers being snuffed out.
Get smarter. Much smarter.
Don't try and define what is right versus what is wrong.
What is right and what is wrong are completely opinion based, there is no saying in what is and what isn't. Terrorists view their ways as virtuous. They don't do it to be evil, they do it because they believe it is for the good of humanity. So, since they think that they are morally right, are they? you may say no, but in turn, does that make them morally wrong? So who does define what's morally right or morally wrong? The majority of the people? If that is so, was slavery morally right, when the majority of the people thought it was? And if you pull God into this, or Jesus, saying that they are the ultimate word of what is right and wrong, you are officially saying that everyone who is not a Christian is morally wrong.
Then the best we can do is make everything fair.
Someone is walking along, and trips on a stick that fell due to a natural force called gravity, and lands on a small infant, killing it. That person would be arrested for accidental homicide. Same thing, only with the baby in the stomach.
...
Those 2 things don't compare. Gravity is not the cause of miscarriages. Both being natural doesn't mean they are the same.

Worse than knowing that the kid was likely to have some big problems?
You can't know what the child will be like.
Would you like to be the product of a rape?
I wouldn't care either way. What matters is that I'm alive right now.
Look at the happy adoption stories. Then look at the unhappy adoption stories. Which ones do you see more frequently? I know several people who are adopted, and more than half of them think their lives suck, mainly because they were adopted.
And those are the only people you know that think their life sucks?
Well, then, why do people put down dogs that bite when defending their houses?
Because people also have a great capacity to be stupid.
How is that the parents' fault? Many people have AIDS or HIV and don't know about it until many years after they contract it. And yes, some people are resilient to AIDS, but what are the odds that this specific child will be?

I said it wasn't the parents fault.
 
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And the bible is a perfect judge of what is right and wrong.

i have always found it funny how our laws are updated yearly to make everything fair for the people but the laws of a book 1800 years old are right and will always be right no exception. abortion didnt exist when the bible was written! how do you know it would be considered murder?! there is no chapter explaining the point during child birth that a child becomes considered a human and should therefore be directly affected by the bibles laws, work that one out then.
 
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And so the debate shifts from Abortion to Christianity. How Wonderful!

I suppose I'll be out numbered defending Christianity.....AGAIN!!!

And GST: You are wrong Abortion did exist during biblical times. And their are bible versus that state the humanity of unborn children.

Here is an ancient depiction of an abortion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Angkordemon.jpg

And one example of an anti-abortion verse found in the bible as apart of the Jewish law.

"If men strive, and hurt a women with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life" (Ex.21:22-23).
 
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Falling down stairs = gravity. Tripping and killing the baby in a miscarriage = gravity.
--donut3.5--
The law is often wrong. EDIT: I should have said that first.
Get smarter? Hah, stop being guided by the illusion of morality and start doing your part in ridding this planet of humanity, dont be shy!
Don't judge me. You'll fail. Miserably. Especially you. Humanity is not a plague on the earth. People that think so are part of the problem that they complain about. Humans have a greater capacity for good than evil. Yeah, yeah, human defined, but without defining bad you can't say that humans are bad.
EDIT: And you'll find it very, very, near impossible to kill all humans.
 
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First off don't call religion crap. I will not stand for that. Religious people have just as much right to have a say in the government as secular people do. And the seperation of church and state was made so that the government would not interfere with religous freedom by making a state religion. Not abolish religion from government. And besides the secular world has no quams about shutting God away from the political structure. (ACLU)
You're totally taking what I said out of context. I was not saying I necessarily thought religion was crap, I was just a little annoyed that you're using it an an argument within something in which religion should not be involved. If you don't believe in [abortion] because of your religion, fine, but quit with the "No need to live in hell." stuff, among other things (that specific quote was from Hakeem)

Those percentages were an estimate. Not a pin-point accurate laser guided statistic. However, it is accurate enough. And the concept remains true. Most babies are aborted because they become an "inconvenience".
I personally wouldn't want to be a 16-year old mother either. Would you?

And an egg and sperm is not a human. A human is what happens when the two merge to form a zygote. A sperm/egg is a sex cell like a skin cell. But a zygote is an extremely undeveloped child. To kill it is not only murder. But infanticide.
Do we have scientific consensus on this, or are you just throwing it out there to support your claims?

Abortion from rape victims are few. But even still. Would I force a 14 year old to have the child?.....I would not force her. But she should have the child. And if it were up to me she would. Because it is not the babies fault he/she was concieved that way. If I was raped (and female) I would of course be an emotional wreck. But if a child was concieved I would have it. Hopefully to raise it into a good person. Not kill it.
That would be your decision, but I personally think in a situation like that the potential mother has every right to choose.

And a baby would choose life if it could. Just because it cant does not mean you should automaticaly deem it unfit to live.
If it was indeed human enough to think by that point, which is what the whole disagreement seems to be about.

K... I've barely read any of the stuff posted because really, I don't want to wade through 3 pages of shit rofl :p

Just think of it like this. Out of all the sperm that could get into an egg, that one sperm made it. Out of the thousands. Out of all the months of years your parents chose to have sex, they chose that month of that year. If it was any other, you wouldn't be here right now. Sometimes we take that very slim chance for granted. Same thing for failed births. Think of what it would be like to have never existed. Incomprehensable, in my opinion. How would you like it if you found out your parents had even CONSIDERED to get an abortion? Just digest that question, and then give me a suitable answer. I'd rather move from foster home from foster home than have never lived a day out in the world. A fetus is a living thing. It has organic (LIVING) material that is of it own self. Do you consider plants to not be alive just because they have no consciousness or brain? I doubt that
I wouldn'tve cared, since I never would've had time to think about it.

Scenario: You are 23 and you have a sick, bed ridden, crippled grandpa that you have to take care of (no one else but you can take care of him). You want to go to a colledge. But your need to care for your grandpa wont allow it. SO you kill him by chopping him up in his sleep. All because he was an inconvenience. Is that the right? Is that acceptable?
Because your grandpa and a fetus are the same thing...?

And the Bible is a perfect judge of what is right and wrong. And even if I did pull God and Christ into this debate WHO ARE YOU! To tell me that I am saying that non-christians are anti-moral. Because you would be utterly mistaken.
Do not start a religion debate with me.
Religion again.

Speaking of the bible...

It's right and wrong, right?

Great. I guess we should officially start stoning to death nonbelievers, homosexuals, and people who work on the sabbath. That sounds really civilized and right to me.

Get smarter. Much smarter.
I don't agree with him either (on the mentally handicapped bit), but I don't think he's stupid. Please consider another stance than "Everyone has a right to my opinion."




And please don't start going on about which parts of the bible to ignore and which to use. If you use a document, you use the document. You can't only hear what you want to, yet still present a debate.
 
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These topics are kickass. I can remember having this debate in Civics last year... I sort of fencelined, because I was pro-abortion yet most of the pro-abortion people (this is in class, of course) were, frankly, idiots. (They had all the wrong reasons -.-)

well none the less the world has changed, old laws just arent what they used to be.
Pfft, didn't you see us stoning jimmy the non-believer yesterday, ignorant fool? :p
 
Please take the time to read the whole post. There is a lot in it and simply reading the first part is not enough.

For heaven's sake!

It's not a baby!
It's a bunch of cells! It's less than an organ!

It is NOT human!

It can't think.
It can't feel.
It can't see.
It can't move.
It can't sense pain.
It has no conscience.
It has no "organs".
It doesn't have any power of decision.
It has no opinion.
It has no awareness of what could happen.

It is a bunch of cells that are growing into something that will become organised after months!
It is a potential for human life, but it is not human life. You cannot force people to have a child.

But essentially, the moment it becomes a being, a "baby", something that is decently developped and can feel pain, can feel something, anything, then yes, it is murder.

But most abortions don't happen at that stage, and yes it is wasted potential, but it might just save a certain someone's life, or at least stop that person from living months of hell, and yes some use it to arrogant and even wrong means, getting rid of a nuisance, but essentially, it can be so useful to people who are just not ready to have one.

SO you kill him by chopping him up in his sleep. All because he was an inconvenience. Is that the right? Is that acceptable?

This is different. The grandpa will feel pain, terror and scream, it will be terrible, and mroe importantly, it's a being. It has feelings. You do not kill beings. But killing cells is something we do regularly anyway. You cannot comapre such a thing.

And about having a child after being raped at 14 years of age is terrible.
Each time you'll look at him/her, you'll remember being raped. You'll remember that you gave up a successful education, and possibly a successful life for this, and though you aren't a bad person, and aren't even considering getting rid of him/her (which would be atrocious), you will still remember those things, and when you look at a child and remember those memories again, you won't feel good. You will be extremely sad. And he/she may notice that and feel sad too, maybe even consider killing himself/herself (at the very worst of course).
To see your child and remember those memories is terrible. And if you would even consider such an option as "the right one", then you need a wake up call.
There's such a thing as doing not all that good things for the best, for your health, for your future, and removing such a future saves the baby the pain of such a life. And if there really is a heaven, then the child will be accepted there, and be much happier there.

Abortion is terrible. It's cruel, yes, but sometimes necessary, and can guarantee a good future for someone.
I would feel terrible having abortion, but it would be over, quickly, and would not hinder me or the child for years to come. it is sad, but it is for the best. And that's why it is always done early.
So there is no pain, and there was never even a chance of feeling pain, there was never a being.

Thank you for reading.

___________________________
========================

On the other side though, you have other cases, ones that aren't all that tragic. Families who had an accident and just can't handle another child in an already too big family. Families who aren't ready, or aren't currently in a good situation that could be bad to the child and them. Those reasons can still be considered morally correct, but not to the extreme that is the worst scenarios.

And then you have those that just reject the baby, since it was an accident, and they just don't want a child at all. Not because they can't handle one economically, not because he/she'd have a bad life. Those are arrogant reasons. Ruining the potential for life for such petty reasons such as these is what really makes abortion seem bad.

Those are the wrong reasons. And though they may be the most common (don't really know), banning abortion, or even making it legeal for only specific cases (which will eventually be unfair anyway) ruins other lives. And think that for each "needed" abortion (those for the right reasons, those that should be taken), two lives are hindered. Not one.


Anyways, youch. My fingers hurt and I need to do some last minute homework.
Thank you for not quoting every single part of my post, that just makes the thread annoyingly longer.

BTW: Just to make the conversation slightly spicier, here are some facts:
In the United States, during the year 1999, there were 4 deaths due to legal abortion, 10 due to miscarriage, and 525 due to pregnancy-related reasons.
AGIAbortionReasonsBarChart.png
 
Level 21
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People who are the product of rape probably don't learn it for a long time, but it'd most likely still be hard to comprehend. I'd still chose life over never living if I was. Secondly, it's the girl's fault for getting pregnant at 16. She has to be responsible for her own actions, and abortion is just a sick "undo" button, the easy way out. Also, it does of organs, and it has its own independent living tissues that go through a specific process and development. To say its not a living thing is just a mental block you put up to think its right. How about you have a child one day, he grows up to be about 1 months old, and then your wife randomly stabs it to death. Is that wrong? Be honest, do you remember the first month of your life? I highly doubt that. But it's still highly wrong and horrible. But like you guys say, it's the mothers choice -_-
 
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For heaven's sake!

It's not a baby!
It's a bunch of cells! It's less than an organ!

It is NOT human!

It can't think.
It can't feel.
It can't see.
It can't move.
It can't sense pain.
It has no conscience.
It has no "organs".
It doesn't have any power of decision.
It has no opinion.
It has no awareness of what could happen.

It is a bunch of cells that are growing into something that will become organised after months!
It is a potential for human life, but it is not human life. You cannot force people to have a child.

agreed.

*MERGED*

the easy way out.

i know can you believe people choose to make their lives easy? i mean here i am purposefully making everything i do difficult while some people are choosing to do things the easy way! whats the world coming to?!?! next people will be taking the simple option or the most direct rotue too!
 
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Level 35
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Abortion still remains unjustified. You cannot prove that is it justified. Because to justify abortion is to justify the torture and murder of an innocent baby.

And Will: it is a human. And all the things you just stated, perfectly describe a comatose patient....to bad he/she isnt human if he's in a coma.

And a baby does have organs. And the grandpa example is a good comparison of killing an "inconvenience".

If you want to kill innocent children, then you might as well get rid of the double standard and legalize murder, thievery, torture, domestic violance abuse, child abuse, HECK just throw out all the laws. LETS KILL AND MAIM EVERYTHING!!!
 
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You cannot prove that is it justified.

you cant unjustify it either, especially not with religion, because to unjustify it you must give prolonged suffering to a family that could end up in a very bad situation. perhaps they wont have enought money to support themselves because the baby cost to much, perhaps the mother will start doing drugs, perhaps the baby will starve to death. anyways, how is it torture when the baby has no consiousness?

also, LOL at comparing a zygote and a comatose patient...did anyone notice that will also perfectly describes a drainpipe?!?!?! it cant move! it has no mind! i feels nothing! but no waiiii!!! its human!!!!! quick you best start stopping people from killing drainpipes! what will happen to their water flow!?!?1 "drainpipe damage is murderrrr!!!"
 
Level 35
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OH SURE!!! And the answer to those problems is killing the baby, after all adoption by relatives, or loving families is just a travesty.

Pfft, Just because you cant support the child does not give you the right to kill it. It is a living human baby. To kill it is murder. To say it isnt a human. Is stupid. To say it isnt living. Is just ignorant. And since it isnt a 5-12 year old, or a teen, or an adult....then it must be a baby.

What is a fetus....Its just an unborn undeveloped version of ..GASP!!! A baby.

And do not call me stupid Infinitynexus: I am quite intelligent. I was delving into encyclopedias while you were still looking at the pictures of Dr.Seus's cat in the hat.
 
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