FrozenFire's Addon Race

[Moderator]

12:35, 24th Aug 2010
TriggerHappy:

Appears to work.

 

[Kam]

This is an ok attempt at creating a balanced Naga race, you should spend some more time on presentation though. Generally you order units from left to right by overall cost and complexity, for instance the smaller harvesting turtle should be at the 0,0 postion. The Turtle model used for a building was also death to my sense of immersion - contact Moyack about some custom models.

As for unit balance it was pretty good, I liked the passive ability that changed unit attack damage based on the opponent.

I'll vote for approval, keep at it.

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Thanks for the very constructive comments.

Ah . I never thought about the button position thing at all. Somehow missed the fact of that completely. I'll definitely fix that on the next version.

The next version will have a completed MELEE AI. In fact it is already completed few hours ago. Did a trial run with a normal orc AI. on 4 matches it won 2. But there are some hero skill that need manual tweaking so AI will actually utilize it.

Also, sorry about the turtle. will contact this moyack guy ASAP. I do hope someone could lend a hand on the turtle hatchery model.

 

[Deleted member 177737]

Maby a large turtle shell with eggs inside? (for the hatchery building)

 

[yeohxin]

Why when I run the program, it shows me "Unable to locate the target to patch"?

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Why when I run the program, it shows me "Unable to locate the target to patch"?

Are you on patch 1.24?

 

[yeohxin]

sure.
And do it work on window 7?
I think maby is this problem.

 

[Prince.Zero]

hmmm a very interesting add-on
Great job my friend, +rep

 

[Hawk]

Good add-on race, it's balance & i will vote for approval.

 

[Meat]

I have Windows XP and it works perfectly for me.

 

[Chucky]

Nice although it could use alot of work...tell me pls with what program did u make the installation, I could use it for a mod of my own !

 

[Faith]

I was wondering, does this work on battle.net, or only on single player? That would be cool to be naga on battle.net... Hehehe, people would be so jealous.

Battle.net or not, I vote for APPROVAL...

 

[buns_and_nuts]

it does work on battle.net if both players have it. Although some ppl have warned me that Warden ( google it if you dont know , it's blizzard's little pet ) does check for MPQ changes and might ban you mistaken you for cheating, but I've tried it on bnet several times. Nothing happen.

i can't play it because i have window xp but i don't care xD
ill vote for approval (Y)

I dont htink this needed Windows Vista. I just put it there. coz I'm using Windows Vista

 

[NBalfa]

if the user is creating a map and he is using this program will it work ? if yes (I haven't downloaded yet , just guessing) you could make it in a way so that the user will be able to select a race ,a handicap (100 ,90 ,80 ,70 ,60 ,50) I know that what I am asking might be too hard (espetially for the race selection part but if you can or if you want to try to make sth like this on v.2
........
if not plz make it work at least.

^^ will vote after testing it
Edit:
nice ideas 4/5
try in the next version to add more stuff or do what I have written above
Edit 2nd:
is coral gateway a mode which doesnt exist in warcraft or is it sth like a model with atachments? can you tell me what is it coz I want to have it in one of my maps

 

[Anachron]

Played it. It was pretty cool.

However, the naga mirror spell is to strong. (Attached replay, no cheats used)

 

[NBalfa]

I cant see the replay
this program can "destroy" some stuff ex advance (food limit etc) options or even maps try playing DOTA (defence of the ancients (download it in epic war... the lastest version(6.68c))) try to fix that

 

[buns_and_nuts]

I cant see the replay
this program can "destroy" some stuff ex advance (food limit etc) options or even maps try playing DOTA (defence of the ancients (download it in epic war... the lastest version(6.68c))) try to fix that

I don't get what you mean by destroying some "ex advance" . Can you explain?

This Addon shouldn't run in concurrent with DOTA or any custom map . It WILL screw things up. However, I don't see the point of running this Addon in concurrent with Dota.

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Played it. It was pretty cool.

However, the naga mirror spell is to strong. (Attached replay, no cheats used)

For some reason my WC3 says it can't find the map duskwood :O .
I can assure you the map's there. I just check. Any reason why this happens?
Could it be I have to put the map at a specific location?

EDIT: I try playing a game on Duskwood myself , recorded a replay and somehow it played. Something must be wrong somewhere.

 

[Anachron]

Well so you could open it?

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Well so you could open it?

nope. It said I don't have the map, eventhough I obviously do.
It said maps/(4)DuskWood not found.

Can someone send me replay for other maps or something like that? I wanna make sure it had nothing to do with the addon. My own replay did work though.

 

[buns_and_nuts]

if the user is creating a map and he is using this program will it work ? if yes (I haven't downloaded yet , just guessing) you could make it in a way so that the user will be able to select a race ,a handicap (100 ,90 ,80 ,70 ,60 ,50) I know that what I am asking might be too hard (espetially for the race selection part but if you can or if you want to try to make sth like this on v.2
........
if not plz make it work at least.

^^ will vote after testing it
Edit:
nice ideas 4/5
try in the next version to add more stuff or do what I have written above
Edit 2nd:
is coral gateway a mode which doesnt exist in warcraft or is it sth like a model with atachments? can you tell me what is it coz I want to have it in one of my maps

1) Use created map will work provided it is a 'melee' map. Pre-placed unit is not supported yet however. I could provide a world edit linked exe, but I don't know how the results will be. Afterall the units aren't categorized as 'neat' as I intended and units will be in big mess.

2) I do not understand your race selection question. Currently Naga is selected by setting race to Night Elf and 90% Handicap.

3) Coral gateway is a custom unit. credits are in readme file. Check out the original creator.

 

[Anachron]

Maybe maps/(4)DuskWood is in another folder or so?

 

[Jack Hoffman]

Hm.. doesn't seem to work.
says that Patch is Unsuccesful.. and i have newest patch, i played on B.net a few hours ago.
i have Windows 7.. is that the problem?

edit: found out what to do, just run the program as Administrator, and it will work perfectly.
i love the race, good work man! keep the races coming

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Maybe maps/(4)DuskWood is in another folder or so?

i put duskwood in all the subfolders in maps... i even created maps/maps..

this is totaly weird

 

[Anachron]

Maybe it's because you have wc3 in another install path. My path is
"E:\Portable Programs\Warcraft III\Maps\(4)Duskwood.w3m"

 

[NBalfa]

about the race selection .... it will be like having 2 programs 1st will be like a window with spaces to fill like ....

Naga Race Race: Handicap: %
.
.
.

then this will be saved and when you will open the second program you will have to select your custom stuff to use Naga

(Fix that I think that handicap and race selection doesn't affect it ...I mean that I have tested a custom map and set race to anything and handicap to 100 and ended up having naga race work

finally the unit with the incursor model you use needs to have a tooltip

(I found the model thanks)

Edit: I also think that the faceless one belongs to Naga because his one hand is like an "octupus" hand

 

[buns_and_nuts]

about the race selection .... it will be like having 2 programs 1st will be like a window with spaces to fill like ....

Naga Race Race: Handicap: %
.
.
.

then this will be saved and when you will open the second program you will have to select your custom stuff to use Naga

(Fix that I think that handicap and race selection doesn't affect it ...I mean that I have tested a custom map and set race to anything and handicap to 100 and ended up having naga race work

finally the unit with the incursor model you use needs to have a tooltip

(I found the model thanks)

Edit: I also think that the faceless one belongs to Naga because his one hand is like an "octupus" hand

what program?? I'm lost....


btw.. I can assure you faceless one does NOT belong to Naga. They're the minions of Yogg Saron if I remember correctly. Not every ocean dwelling creatures are from Naga. Even Makrura ( the crab thingy )_ isn't.

 

[NBalfa]

( you don't have to make the race as blizzard's story you have added much stuff that I think blizzard doesn't mention anything about it also you can create your own story about the faceless one you can even say that: when naga tryied to obdain the power of the eye of sageras they also got a power to control other creatures such as the faceless one ... and contineu the story

I didn't mean that the faceless one belongs to naga I mean that he should belong to them it may seem a little crazy to you but if you think it again with the right color he looks like a naga creature , just watch every detail of faceless one in object editor and think if you whould like him to be a naga creature

_______...
also i mean that you have 1 program and 3 notepad files.
Program: RaceAddonV1.1.exe
files: CreditList.txt , Instruction.txt , V1.1 changes.txt

now you can create a 2nd program which will have some defealt stuff and if you open it, it will look sth like this:

(file name)
(information about this file ,if you want to have some)

(races

(Race 1 ex homan) (will be like a custom race of yours you can select which race will be at a selectable handicap)

(Race 2 ex night elfs)

.
.
.
.

and you can save this so that your changes will remain when you will restart your pc!

this program will connect somehow with RaceAddonV1.1.exe so
that when you will open the program RaceAddonV1.1.exe to play as naga you have to select your default race and handicap.

hope you could understand now ^^

Edit: you can some more ubgrades for naga and nightelf towers and also thunderbolts don't fit in tidal guardians as a missle

 

[daverave1212]

Why when I run the program, it shows me "Unable to locate the target to patch"?

because you need to have the latest patch

 

[Warcraft_Tester]

Dude I have to break it to you but it keeps saying that its unable to patch and two my virus scanner keeps thinking its a virus.

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Dude I have to break it to you but it keeps saying that its unable to patch and two my virus scanner keeps thinking its a virus.

are you sure you have patch 1.24?
I'm not sure if it's you're antivirus stopped you from running this. But it works fine for most ppl.

 

[xorkatoss]

Extract the EXE file and put it at the Warcraft 3 root folder.

what's a Warcraft 3 root folder?
maybe give us the path?
that would help a lot since i would like to try this addon...

EDIT:
i found out how to install it!! (actually i read the instructions xD)
awesome addon man!! 5/5 +rep can't wait for more races from you!!

 

[alienz2]

its doesn't work on window 7 ..... my patch 1.24e~

 

[Warcraft_Tester]

I can change the icon for you to any icon if you want...

 

[buns_and_nuts]

I'm using Windows 7 and it works well.

 

[rugal]

Really love it !

some troubles for sure, some icons too, and i wanted to have se seadrake, but it's playable like that.

and, ho, a new tavern hero to replace the naga would be good to

for last, a special selection button would be better than elves with 90% hp

if i can be of some help

want to see more !

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Race selection button is completely not possible without hacking the exe. Warcraft III's exe hardcode the race selection to be only 4.

I actually have the other race about a quarter way done. But I"m too busy to finish it. if you'd love to help , drop me an e-mail in jeremy.choo -a@t- ammoboxstudios.com or add me in msn chiean2000 -a@t- yahoo.com

 

[rugal]

Some models and icons aren't on this site.

Why?

Can we have them?

(exemple : BTNmurgulpool, HQ and upgrades, BTN too)

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

epic,i'm not fan of melee maps but this tool rocks, can you add draeneis? ogres, or that kind of races?

 

[orcwar2]

hey make all the races played from the campaigns that would be epic like the blood elves, fel orcs, and like the dude above me said Draenei.

 

[d34thst4lker]

not at all balanced considering i could kill a entire computer insane human with just my heros

 

[buns_and_nuts]

not at all balanced considering i could kill a entire computer insane human with just my heros

really? can you show me a replay. perhaps i could analyze what's causing the imba-ness

 

[Pfosten]

if u make more races could u make a pandaren race too ????

 

[Mezaluh]

Hi, I have patch 1.26, but it does not work... do I have to re-patch it back to 1.24?

 

[Drazeon]

To those who are having issues with "Unable to locate the target to patch".
It may be the reason that the registry in your computer doesn't have information about Warcarf III, this might because that you directly copy the whole game from another computer into your computer.

To fix this issue find this file in the Warcraf III root folder:
War3PathFixer.exe

If you are able to locate this file, just run it as Administrator and the program should be able to locate your Warcraft III game.

 

[Mezaluh]

To fix this issue find this file in the Warcraf III root folder:
War3PathFixer.exe

Yes, that was the problem... it worked on my old computer with XP, but not on my notebook with Vista, so I thought there might have been some problem with the OS, but now I see it was because of copying the whole game. Thanks for help...

And concerning the addon itself, I love it!
5/5
However, there are still some issues (both aesthetic and systematic), that I would like to discuss with you... I'll just write it down and post here in a while.

 

[Mezaluh]

Well, here comes the list of my ideas. Please, do not take this as negative criticism - as pointed above, I absolutely love your addon. However, perfection is always hard to achieve. Plus, I have been trying to make my own mod with the additional naga faction, so I would like to present my own ideas as well.

Interface:
Obviously, I would suggest to change everything night-elven into naga-ish. This would include changes of the naga UI (for every change, I am trying to find a solution), the naga cursor, changing the game warnings (in the Sound Editor, a complete list of naga warnings can be found), changing the rally point, changing the race icon in the game statistics (this can be found in the World Editor as well, together with a blood elf icon), and - possibly - changing the music.

Buildings, units, spells and improvements:
I have not made any research of the balance issues, neither resource balance, nor unit statistics balance. The only things, I will discuss here, is the tech-tree, some alternatives and the uniqueness of some of your ideas.

Coral Entrance -> Coral Gateway -> Coral Monument:
I have seen this model in the "Power of Corruption" mod, for the first time. It serves well as a three-step upgrading building, but a coral reef does not seem to be an adequate headquarters for the proud race of nagas. In my (WIP) naga map, I have rather used the naga citadel model, which features the basic Temple of Tides together with two upgrades (and the second one is really interesting! ). The replacement of the models would require also change of the names (and if I may tell my suggestion, I would say Temple of Seas -> Temple of Tides -> Temple of Depths).
Mur'Gul Slave - the training button has one apostrophe redundant. And what is the reason to give workers two battle-abilities (Feast & increased health from Mur'Gul Vitality)?
Healing Waters - I have always had a problem with unique healing abilities for the naga race. Adding it as an active spell for the main building is really an interesting option, but I would definitely change the graphical effects.

Coral Bed - nothing special to say

Spawning Grounds:
Mur'Gul Reaver - I have always understood the naga as a race of invaders, who need to establish a base on the shores of Azeroth as quickly as possible. That's why I have agreed with Reavers being trained in Temple of Tides (or generally, the main building). It gave the race a special feeling, when they could rush just by building the Altar and getting a hero - the basic melee units would have been trained already. I know, there might be some balance problems, but I would suggest returning this unit to the main building. And, I would also change the Feast ability, because this way, Reavers are too similar to Ghouls.
Naga Myrmidon - wow, Battle Instinct is really a cool ability. This way, the Myrmidons are sort of giant-slayers. However, I would change the Amulet of Azshara into an active ability. In the human Skill Tree in the Editor, you may find a spell-blocking ability, very similar to Footman's Defend, but making the unit invulnerable to spells instead of more resistant to piercing attacks. I would suggest to use that ability, instead of the Amulet.
Snap Dragon - a nice earth-only pierce-attacking unit with Nerve Poison, nothing to comment.
Coautl - just change the Armour-piercing Spines effect.

Tidal Guardian - OK.

Altar of Depths:
Dreamstealer - an interesting Mur'Gul hero, but I would change some of his spells. Windwalk and Sleep should definitely go out, since they are just copies of Blademaster's and Dreadlord's abilities. On the other hand, Mind Eater and Mind Gateway are pretty cool.
Enchantress - I do not know really why, but I dislike this hero... it did not manage to enchant me. Although Song of Ocean's Wrath is an awesome ability, Song of Serenity and Song of Clarity are too similar. And Song of Betrayal is just a massive temporary Charm, plus it does not affect Mountain Giants, which made me loose one important battle... So, I would just pass Song of Ocean's Wrath and one of the healing songs to Dreamstealer.
Tidebaron - my favourite naga hero. Turning the Tide is an interesting alternation to Pitlord's Howl of Terror. Burrow is just awesome (although the spell effect could change) and both Serpent Strength Aura and Call of Invasion are pretty useful. However, I would consider changing his model, to make him more distinctive - either to this, this or this.
Sea Witch - I did not see any changes to the original Sea Witch, so I like this hero as much, as I liked her before.
...now, you might ask me for a substitution for the Enchantress. Well, I have always kept in mind the naga connection to Old Gods, so what about adding the Fire Lord? I know, it may sound ridiculous, to add a fire elemental to a sea faction, but if you view the naga as masters of destructive elemental magic, Firelord fits there pretty well.

Mur'Gul Hall - the upgrades are OK, but what is the Mur'Gul doing???

Weapon Storage:
I do not fully understand, why did you choose to make a separate building for 2 Mur'Gul upgrades and a wood drop-off point(the Mur'Gul Hall) and a separate building for general upgrades? Plus, I would add one more upgrade (to match with the four types for each race). Maybe an building upgrade, that would add some kind of aura to the naga buildings - this aura could slow down the enemies, when entering the naga base, slowly draining their mana, or giving some buff to allies.
Another big issue is the Magic Wagon. The item offer is quite good, but why did you have to make it a trainable movable unit? I would suggest using the "Serpent Treasury" model from "Power of Corruption" mod (and maybe naming it "Bazaar" would be suitable ).

Turtle Hatchery:
One more time: why did you decide to make a building (that does not look like a building) produce a unit, that may become a building itself? Do not understand me wrong, I loooove Ancient Turtle, but why do I have to produce it in another turtle? I would just give the Mur'Gul Slaves an opportunity to build (or plant/raise/farm) the Deployed Ancient Turtle straight away. This then could be un-deployed and moved to target location. As I have already said, I adore the Ancient Turtle (although its shell resembles rather night elves, than naga) and the idea to make it an drop-off point is just brilliant, but there is a small bug (or, at least, I believe, this was not your intention) - the Slaves can drop the harvested resources even when the Ancient Turtle is un-deployed and moves.
Juvenile Turtle - for me, this unit is just as redundant, as the building, in which it is produced. A more efficient wood-cutter might be useful, but the Goblin Shredders can do that 4-times better.
Dragon Turtle - classical naga siege creature. It's OK.

Shrine of Azshara:
Naga Siren - I love the way, how you altered her skills. This caster is great, although Ice Touch changing the melee attack to a ranged one seems to be too powerful.
Storm Spirit - a flying non-attacking ethereal caster? Well, that's called uniqueness! However, her spells might need a bit balance.
Naga Sorceror - another unit, that I do not like. Despite its abilities, which are really interesting (Destroy Magic is the most inventive healing ability, I have ever seen) I would put this unit away, for several reasons: 1. naga males are (in most cases) not able to practice magic (source), 2. there are already too many anti-magic units (Myrmidon, Storm Spirit and Sorceror), 3. it's head model is strange, 4. I don't like it

Temple of Basilisk:
Considering the usage of Naga Citadel model as the main building, I would change the model for the Basilisk Temple, either to the model of Coral Monument, or to the Naga Observatory (however, this model corrupted some of my maps)
Greater Basilisk - the elite units of other races are making a space particularly for a walking (or rather, non-flying) ranged unit. Basilisk is such a unit, but it looks quite unappealing. Instead, Hydra might do better - but hydras are already creeps. So, as a unique serpentine ranged unit I would suggest a Kirin (or Quilin), like that one in M&M:H6. It might be a floating (not flying!) unit with very interesting (and cool) appearance!

--------------------------------------------

At the end, I would just summarize the unit changes, that I consider most important:
- remove Juvenile Turtle
- replace Turtle Hatchery with Deployed Ancient Turtle
- change Storm Spirit's appearance (and maybe a name change will be required, as well)
- replace Naga Sorcerer with a completely different unit
- replace Greater Basilisk with a Kirin, or a different unit

Just to give some quick ideas, you might use a Medusa with Petrify ability, or a Nian. You might also consider the naga expanse in Outland - they could bring back some netherrays, tripods, beholders or even the nether dragons...

I hope, you did not get angry, that I dare to interfere into your addon. I may assure you, that my intentions were pure - I just wanted to make this addon even better. I would be very happy, if you would find any of my ideas good enough for implementation. And I would be even happier, if I might participate in this project as well

EDIT: Just two more notes:
- Destroy Magic should have auto-cast, because this way it's used too little
- Spirit Mirage is too strong. In the late game, I just make one or two Greater Basilisks, and a bunch of Storm Spirits. I just go, attack enemy base, and copy my basilisks as long, as I do not run out of mana - which is quite long Therefore, I would suggest raising the mana cost drastically, or lowering the stats of the mirage & shortening its duration

 

[buns_and_nuts]

Angry is the last thing on my mind. Your criticism is amazing and it hits a lot of spots accurately. In lieu to this, I promise to find time to fix this in a week or two's time. I'm currently busy developing a commercial game ( indie ) and thus really need to dig for time. But I have my war3 and JNGP on my trusty pendrive. To be honest, the biggest issue I have with making changes is the fact that I have to do all 15 steps of converting the map into a .exe mod. But another reason is that the Demon race is half done and everytime I opens the map it aches me to know how little time I have and how much I would love to implement. However, several things I would like to discuss with you :

1) My functional chart shows that if juvenile and ancient turtle is removed, I currently lack 2 units. I'll be glad to share this design chart with you for your input if you could add me to msn at chiean2000 -@- yahoo-dot-com .

2) Btw, I'm aware of some of the story behind naga. I read through a lot on WoWWiki before designing this race. However as I do not play WoW I might have missed out a lot of storylines. I've been keep trying to find time to make a proper 'manual' or a document kind of thing explaining all the races/units/story behind this mod. But alas, only notepads of details are done. Haha.

So anyway, the idea of this race came on as a story about Naga decided to invade the land dwellers by digging tunnels straight above onto the surface and raising Coral Monuments as outpost. They send send out evolve to live even on freshwater and are able sniff out and dig into underground water streams to regroup ( thus the burrow ability of Tidebaron ). Also that notice that the Naga Male do not practice spell, thus the Naga Sorceror is a spell blocker. Destroying spells by mastering the use of ancient artifact, and not by practicing magic directly . To be honest I've no intention to change the spells of Naga Sorceror, Siren and Storm Spirit, I've bounced with a lot of other ideas on these 3 units, but I've come to be very satisfied with the current sets, not that I think it's perfect. I think other areas deserve more attention. Yes I agree Mirage should be adjusted. , as for the Ice Touch, it's only range when it's vs Air. It's same on ground. As for the Sorceror, I couldn't think of a better anti-magic unit for Naga.

Also, to be honest, I don't mind scrapping both Juvenile Turtle and Ancient Turtle. I just couldn't find better ways to implement a Turtle Hatchery. or perhaps this entire idea could be challenged. Contact me on msn for further discussion on this if you're willing.

3) As for the basilisk. Bear in mind warcraft3 does not have a heavy range ground T3 unit. So I think it could fit in perfectly. I like what you say about it. and agreed with it wholeheartedly. However, I couldn't find a better suited model for Basilisk. or any better unit.

4) Workers can drop stuff at ancient turtle when undeployed? I need to check this out. Again, this entire mova-ble command centre isn't something that got me super excited as well. I dont mind to scrap this with a better idea. On the point on directly building ancient turtles, I don't see how I can explain workers being able to 'build' a giant turtle. But I guess that's fine. hehe

5) Heroes : For the dreamstealer, I think sleep should stay or maybe tweaked a bit due to the theme of it. Windwalk should be the one to change. However, the current skills seems to be an extremely powerful combo for a hero killer though ( I didn't actually intended it to be ) . Sleep a hero, windwalk straight to it and do a bonus dmg on mind eater. Rinse repeat. When it's about to escape, take potion and ulti it. GG. Sometimes i felt it's a little overpowered. Haha. I also think Sleep should stay due to the fact that Mind Eater spell requires the unit to be sleeping.

Oh my what's wrong with my enchantress. I love her man. I like a song-themed hero. Notice that all the spells are in form of song. All of them giving gradual boosting spell. I think one of the most interesting thing about this hero is that you can keep casting song of clarity and can boost and entire army of caster's mana very quickly. I'm thinking of readjusting the song of clarity to NOT affect self, but then looking at archmage's brilliance aura, i felt it's fair that the spell should affect itself.

Hearing what you've got to say, I'm strongly considering switching naga sorceror to Medusa or enchantress to Medusa. But this means the naga-idol hero is gone

note: I can't use nian. Reskinning is bad, as far as I know it changes every felhound in the game. Unless it's a new model .

6) The worker bonus is not intended. However, because the Reaver and the worker looks like cousin. I suppose the upgrade should affect both. Also no other race has got upgrade that give combat boosts the worker i believe ( except you might ask why do peons need pillage ) . and yes Reaver is a little like ghoul I believe except that they are not workers. But perhaps I think it's the feast ability that makes them feel similar ?( rest assured the ability is completely different in actual usage )

7) As for the weapon upgrades. not all races have 4 upgrades for units. Orcs have 3. The other one is for buildings. I guess as for the Murgul Hall, I intended it to be a mill. Like Human . Mill and Blacksmith is separate. But in this case, it can also train Magic Wagon ( bazaar is good , but sounds a little like a celebration-themed unit ).


ps : I would like to ask for a little favor. Can you check out from public if it's possible to change the UI on the fly ( without hard-replacing ) . Bear in mind that the 4 races are still there, you don't want to completely replace Night Elf's UI.

Well, here comes the list of my ideas. Please, do not take this as negative criticism - as pointed above, I absolutely love your addon. However, perfection is always hard to achieve. Plus, I have been trying to make my own mod with the additional naga faction, so I would like to present my own ideas as well.

Interface:
Obviously, I would suggest to change everything night-elven into naga-ish. This would include changes of the naga UI (for every change, I am trying to find a solution), the naga cursor, changing the game warnings (in the Sound Editor, a complete list of naga warnings can be found), changing the rally point, changing the race icon in the game statistics (this can be found in the World Editor as well, together with a blood elf icon), and - possibly - changing the music.

Buildings, units, spells and improvements:
I have not made any research of the balance issues, neither resource balance, nor unit statistics balance. The only things, I will discuss here, is the tech-tree, some alternatives and the uniqueness of some of your ideas.

Coral Entrance -> Coral Gateway -> Coral Monument:
I have seen this model in the "Power of Corruption" mod, for the first time. It serves well as a three-step upgrading building, but a coral reef does not seem to be an adequate headquarters for the proud race of nagas. In my (WIP) naga map, I have rather used the naga citadel model, which features the basic Temple of Tides together with two upgrades (and the second one is really interesting! ). The replacement of the models would require also change of the names (and if I may tell my suggestion, I would say Temple of Seas -> Temple of Tides -> Temple of Depths).
Mur'Gul Slave - the training button has one apostrophe redundant. And what is the reason to give workers two battle-abilities (Feast & increased health from Mur'Gul Vitality)?
Healing Waters - I have always had a problem with unique healing abilities for the naga race. Adding it as an active spell for the main building is really an interesting option, but I would definitely change the graphical effects.

Coral Bed - nothing special to say

Spawning Grounds:
Mur'Gul Reaver - I have always understood the naga as a race of invaders, who need to establish a base on the shores of Azeroth as quickly as possible. That's why I have agreed with Reavers being trained in Temple of Tides (or generally, the main building). It gave the race a special feeling, when they could rush just by building the Altar and getting a hero - the basic melee units would have been trained already. I know, there might be some balance problems, but I would suggest returning this unit to the main building. And, I would also change the Feast ability, because this way, Reavers are too similar to Ghouls.
Naga Myrmidon - wow, Battle Instinct is really a cool ability. This way, the Myrmidons are sort of giant-slayers. However, I would change the Amulet of Azshara into an active ability. In the human Skill Tree in the Editor, you may find a spell-blocking ability, very similar to Footman's Defend, but making the unit invulnerable to spells instead of more resistant to piercing attacks. I would suggest to use that ability, instead of the Amulet.
Snap Dragon - a nice earth-only pierce-attacking unit with Nerve Poison, nothing to comment.
Coautl - just change the Armour-piercing Spines effect.

Tidal Guardian - OK.

Altar of Depths:
Dreamstealer - an interesting Mur'Gul hero, but I would change some of his spells. Windwalk and Sleep should definitely go out, since they are just copies of Blademaster's and Dreadlord's abilities. On the other hand, Mind Eater and Mind Gateway are pretty cool.
Enchantress - I do not know really why, but I dislike this hero... it did not manage to enchant me. Although Song of Ocean's Wrath is an awesome ability, Song of Serenity and Song of Clarity are too similar. And Song of Betrayal is just a massive temporary Charm, plus it does not affect Mountain Giants, which made me loose one important battle... So, I would just pass Song of Ocean's Wrath and one of the healing songs to Dreamstealer.
Tidebaron - my favourite naga hero. Turning the Tide is an interesting alternation to Pitlord's Howl of Terror. Burrow is just awesome (although the spell effect could change) and both Serpent Strength Aura and Call of Invasion are pretty useful. However, I would consider changing his model, to make him more distinctive - either to this, this or this.
Sea Witch - I did not see any changes to the original Sea Witch, so I like this hero as much, as I liked her before.
...now, you might ask me for a substitution for the Enchantress. Well, I have always kept in mind the naga connection to Old Gods, so what about adding the Fire Lord? I know, it may sound ridiculous, to add a fire elemental to a sea faction, but if you view the naga as masters of destructive elemental magic, Firelord fits there pretty well.

Mur'Gul Hall - the upgrades are OK, but what is the Mur'Gul doing???

Weapon Storage:
I do not fully understand, why did you choose to make a separate building for 2 Mur'Gul upgrades and a wood drop-off point(the Mur'Gul Hall) and a separate building for general upgrades? Plus, I would add one more upgrade (to match with the four types for each race). Maybe an building upgrade, that would add some kind of aura to the naga buildings - this aura could slow down the enemies, when entering the naga base, slowly draining their mana, or giving some buff to allies.
Another big issue is the Magic Wagon. The item offer is quite good, but why did you have to make it a trainable movable unit? I would suggest using the "Serpent Treasury" model from "Power of Corruption" mod (and maybe naming it "Bazaar" would be suitable ).

Turtle Hatchery:
One more time: why did you decide to make a building (that does not look like a building) produce a unit, that may become a building itself? Do not understand me wrong, I loooove Ancient Turtle, but why do I have to produce it in another turtle? I would just give the Mur'Gul Slaves an opportunity to build (or plant/raise/farm) the Deployed Ancient Turtle straight away. This then could be un-deployed and moved to target location. As I have already said, I adore the Ancient Turtle (although its shell resembles rather night elves, than naga) and the idea to make it an drop-off point is just brilliant, but there is a small bug (or, at least, I believe, this was not your intention) - the Slaves can drop the harvested resources even when the Ancient Turtle is un-deployed and moves.
Juvenile Turtle - for me, this unit is just as redundant, as the building, in which it is produced. A more efficient wood-cutter might be useful, but the Goblin Shredders can do that 4-times better.
Dragon Turtle - classical naga siege creature. It's OK.

Shrine of Azshara:
Naga Siren - I love the way, how you altered her skills. This caster is great, although Ice Touch changing the melee attack to a ranged one seems to be too powerful.
Storm Spirit - a flying non-attacking ethereal caster? Well, that's called uniqueness! However, her spells might need a bit balance.
Naga Sorceror - another unit, that I do not like. Despite its abilities, which are really interesting (Destroy Magic is the most inventive healing ability, I have ever seen) I would put this unit away, for several reasons: 1. naga males are (in most cases) not able to practice magic (source), 2. there are already too many anti-magic units (Myrmidon, Storm Spirit and Sorceror), 3. it's head model is strange, 4. I don't like it

Temple of Basilisk:
Considering the usage of Naga Citadel model as the main building, I would change the model for the Basilisk Temple, either to the model of Coral Monument, or to the Naga Observatory (however, this model corrupted some of my maps)
Greater Basilisk - the elite units of other races are making a space particularly for a walking (or rather, non-flying) ranged unit. Basilisk is such a unit, but it looks quite unappealing. Instead, Hydra might do better - but hydras are already creeps. So, as a unique serpentine ranged unit I would suggest a Kirin (or Quilin), like that one in M&M:H6. It might be a floating (not flying!) unit with very interesting (and cool) appearance!

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At the end, I would just summarize the unit changes, that I consider most important:
- remove Juvenile Turtle
- replace Turtle Hatchery with Deployed Ancient Turtle
- change Storm Spirit's appearance (and maybe a name change will be required, as well)
- replace Naga Sorcerer with a completely different unit
- replace Greater Basilisk with a Kirin, or a different unit

Just to give some quick ideas, you might use a Medusa with Petrify ability, or a Nian. You might also consider the naga expanse in Outland - they could bring back some netherrays, tripods, beholders or even the nether dragons...

I hope, you did not get angry, that I dare to interfere into your addon. I may assure you, that my intentions were pure - I just wanted to make this addon even better. I would be very happy, if you would find any of my ideas good enough for implementation. And I would be even happier, if I might participate in this project as well

EDIT: Just two more notes:
- Destroy Magic should have auto-cast, because this way it's used too little
- Spirit Mirage is too strong. In the late game, I just make one or two Greater Basilisks, and a bunch of Storm Spirits. I just go, attack enemy base, and copy my basilisks as long, as I do not run out of mana - which is quite long Therefore, I would suggest raising the mana cost drastically, or lowering the stats of the mirage & shortening its duration

 

[Mezaluh]

To be honest, I did not expect any answer, so I am more than surprised, that you have written such a long reaction... well, thank you

I would reply to your e-mail, but since I do not have an MSN account, I was not sure, whether a ordinary mail would be accepted. Thus, I have decided to write my answer here. So, to your points:

1. Yes, I have made several charts as well + I have been inspired - and partially guided - by a Fifth Race Designing Guide. If I use the terminology from that article, after removing juvenile and ancient turtle (as a unit), you will need a "Shop Flyer" and a "Support" unit.
According to another chart, that I made, you will need 2 units, that should somehow combine these characteristics: 1 flying & 1 walking/floating unit; 1 anti-air unit; 1 mechanical unit; 1 defensive/support unit.
I suggest this combinations: anti-air flyer (similar to Dragonhawk with Aerial Shackles or Batrider with Unstable Concoction) and some mechanical vehicle with supporting abilities with very small, or no attack, but lots of HP. Even though flying mechanical support unit sounds interesting, but since you have Storm Spirit, which is a flying non-attacking caster, I would prefer the former idea.
Now, to name some examples: the flying unit could be a beholder, kirin (or cloud serpent, from Mists of Pandaria), nether-drake, or some other...
The defensive support unit is a bit harder to define, but considering, that Magic Wagon is a movable shop, and Ancient Turtle (possibly replacing Turtle Hatchery) is a movable deploy-point, the support unit might be skipped, leaving the nagas with 11 units + 2 half-units.

2. Well, after a longer time playing for the naga, I somehow got used to the naga sorceror and approve this unit now
However, there are still some things, I believe, should be changed:
- change his name, "Sorceror" evokes a caster unit... a "Naga Disruptor" sounds stupid, but it describes his role more appropriately... maybe a ritualist? Or something else...?
- change his icon with the "Battle Instinct" upgrade icon. The current icon is too similar to Myrmidon's one.
- I am still convinced, that Destroy Magic should have auto-cast. And if you change the automatical self-heal and leave just the stacking healing ability, this might be pretty cool.
- I have not (yet) found a proper model for the Storm Spirit, but I believe, that it should be changed... the current model (although in different colours) is already used by Banshee and the Ghost creeps

3. I agree, that a heavy range ground T3 unit is exactly, what WC3 needed, that's why I like your concept of the elite naga unit... I just still don't like it's model. However, I am afraid, that as long as there is no better resource, the current basilisk will stay.

4. Well, how were the workers able to "build" the Turtle Hatchery (which seemed to me as a turtle brood-mother)? I have only two "reasonable" possibilities in mind - either they will be sacrificed to an under-water turtle god(dess) - like Wisps building an ancient - or, they might plant some egg, from which the Ancient Turtle evolves....

5. To be honest, I have not been thinking a lot about the heroes any more. However, if you want to keep the Sleep ability for Dream Stealer, you should change Dreadlords abilities.
And yes, Enchantress is a nice hero, and the concept of song-abilities is really great, but it either needs an overhaul, or another hero should be introduced. However, adding Medusa is not a good idea either, because she would be too similar to Sea Witch (who is a medusa, body-wise)...

6. Maybe you could change the way, how the bonus attack is gained. Instead of feasting on dead bodies, they could buff up near water... or something like that. Which brings me to one question - why did you scrap the "Submerge" ability? This could be used as a regenerative spell for the naga...

7. Yes, I know that not all races have 4 unit upgrades, but they all have 4 upgrades with 3 tiers in one building. And I think, that a structural upgrade is just what the naga need. I have already a concept in my mind, but am not sure about the details. It is based on the Old Gods and should be something like this:
A. Gift of N'Zoth - small defence-bonus for the naga structures + "Waters of Ny'alotha" ability for the Coral Entrance/Gateway/Monument (which is simply the Healing Waters ability).
B. Gift of C'Thun - another defence-bonus for the buildings + Coral Beds and Tidal Guardians would get an ability to spawn eyes on tentacles, that would be able to see invisible units.
C. Gift of Yogg-Saron - one more time boosting the defence of naga buildings + giving several structers the ability to spawn defensive tentacles (like the Forgotten One's).

I have asked several of my friends, that have spent hours on hours with World Editor, but it seems, that the only possibility to change the racial UI just for the 90% Night Elves is impossible...

Well, I hope, I helped a little bit. I am really excited to hear, that demons are lurking somewhere in another release of this mod... and an indie game? Wow, that sounds really awesome! I can really understand, that you have very little spare time, so I appreciate your responses and reactions even more