• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Your Opinions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
I have been doing a sort of "research" for creating a new brand of AoS/Arena Maps.

Now, after the tiring hours of my research, I want to hear from the gamers themselves. I want to know:

1. What do you want to see in a Hero-Based Map, such as an AoS or an Arena?
2. What have you loved about it? Do you think it can be improved even in a very small way?
3. What do you hate about these brand of maps? How do you think it can be improved?
4. For those looking to redefine standards for these brand of maps, what must one mapper know on the gameplay?
5. Say one wants to change the face or create a new generation of AoS/Arena Maps, what must one include to make it fell the same genre but create a new look/style for it?

Ive seen too much with the same concepts, and I want to know what do you think can be implemented to give a different feel to these Map Genre's.
Please give ideas from a gamers perspective, not a mappers perspective.

This is not made for me, but I did this to get new ideas and create an inventive play style for AoS/Arena Maps.



Compilations

These are compilations for new, original game styles. Only heavy features are placed, if one uses these features, credits to me (Drunken_Jackal) and the person who created the idea.
They are, as follows:
Compilations

Modes


Total Control: On every lane, there are seven flags in three key points, three of one team, three for the other and one neutral. If there are so for each lane, there would be twenty-one flags in total. Non-neutral flags are called colored flags, where neutral flags are simple Neutral flags.

Flags can win in two ways. Each team flag (non-neutral flag) can generate points, as well as be used to gain possession.

Possession is a whole percentage. There are in total 18 colored flags, so for every team flag in possession, it would gain 5% possession, the last 10% acquired differently. Example: Team A has lost two flags at the beginning, giving Team B eleven flags in total, giving Team B 55% possession and Team A only 35% possession. If a team acquires 90% possession for more than (let's say) 10 minutes, they win.

Winning through points is pretty simple. Only Neutral Flags and 12 or more colored flags can generate points, so both teams start with 0 points. For every flag captured, colored or Neutral, 20 points are given to that team. If it is a Neutral Flag, points are generated at 2 per second. If a second Neutral Flag is captured, generated points are increased to 5 per second and finally if the last Neutral Flag is captured, points are increase to 10 per second. If a team has 12 colored flags or more, then points generated are increased by 2 per second (eg. If a team has 2 Neutral Flags and 14 colored flags, then they would have a point generation of 7 points per second.) The Team that has 1600 points at the end of the game, wins.

If a Team has 80% possession for more than 20 minutes and all three Neutral flags, insta-win.

Rules can be applied to flag capture. For example: When a flag is on a hero, then is decrease movement speed by 30%. Or flags can be guarded by creeps. Or maybe even Neutral flags can only be captures after fulfilling specific criterias in separate lanes (eg. Mid lane requires at least two level 6 players and 1800 gold on each player in order to be captured). If Team A is attempting to capture a Neutral flag from Team B, then heavier penalties can ensue.


Millionaire: Each side will have two bases and two sites on each lane. At the center of the map, there will be an unlockable Hidden Ruins which can generate 700 gold per minute. One main base and a forward base. The main base generates 800 every minute while the forward base generates 300 gold every minute. Each site generates 100 gold every minute. Players cannot take out the gold generated by the bases and sites, but they can place gold in. If a team reaches the 1 million gold mark, victory.


Protector of the Land: If a player has at least 5 as a close ally for 30 minutes and manages to defend it from other tribes at least twice, victory will ensue and a cinematic will play depicting all the tribes swarming and slaying the enemy team.


Destruction: If a team has no sites or towers and has lost both their forward base and main base, then a death deal will ensue. Every player on the team without any standing structure will gain a 100% increase in damage and a 40% increase in movement speed and attack speed. But once one hero dies, it dies permanently. The team that destroyed the other teams structure must kill the remaining opposing team members to ensure victory. The main base can be restored after 12 minutes which will decrease the buffs to 50% damage increase and 20% movement and attack speed. Once at least one tower is rebuilt, then the buff is completely removed. A player will the buff will be hostile to everyone, including neutral creeps, except their own faction.


Dominance: Around the map, five neutral places will have something called checkpoints. Three extra checkpoints can be revealed, one of which can be permanently obtained. A team must gain two thirds of all checkpoints for forty minutes and survive a final attack by the opposing team. The final attack allows the attackers to have a 40% boost in attack damage and a 20% boost in attack speed. If the attack succeed, then all checkpoints are destroyed and players cannot obtain them again.


Tribal Warfare.
Traditional AoS gameplay, but Tribes who hone the land interfere with your battles. The tribes mostly cling in at lanes and kill any troops and have no allies, except other tribes. Tribes can be allies once killing their leader and the player which did most damage would be their Blood-Kin. Blood-Kin is a term for leader. The tribe would then interfere with the lanes, BUT be allied to you. You win the traditional way, killing the main structure. A tribe is treated enemy again when their former Blood-Kin, now a Battle-Brother, their second in command is attacked by an ally of their Blood-Kin.


Code of War
This is made to make the AoS feel real as possible. The map would be HUGE. At the map, there are tactical locations and camps scattered by the opposing factions. There are also tribes, which are all enemies. Can be allied by negotiating (persuasion or paying), gaining trust (doing quests) or lastly, challange their Blood-Kin.

No lanes here, well they are not technically called lanes, since they are mostly jagged and broken. Units are not spawned, but are already at premade legions, which can or cant be controlled by players. There would be like a sub-mode wherein you can choose if you want to be a commander or not. Units are given a sort of AI where their party can either charge or remain and defend. Think of it as a Castle Defense + AoS + RPG. You can also upgrade your troops by hiring mercenaries or using your own gold.

Legions only move when their AI tells so, or if their commander is a hero. Camps can be captured.

To be continued.

Features


Locals and Settlements
The various local tribes can either become your worst nightmare or a valuable ally. In total, there can be six tribes which will increase your creep generation and provide unique bonuses, as well as having each individual items that cannot be found anywhere else. Having a different combination of tribes will also help. Each tribe can be won over through different methods. Example:
Malkarith Tribe: The tribe that prospers. If the tribe is on your side, it would provide an increase of 300 gold per minute plus 100 for every settlement. Players can also purchase various items to increase gold-making.
Dandarli Tribe: The tribe that battles. If the tribe is on your side, two extra melee warriors and a healer will be generated. Players can also purchase unique items with unique effects on them for combat.
Narkalthi Tribe: The tribe that watches. If the tribe is on your side, many of it's spies will now share vision with you and a watcher is generated every creep spawn to spy on the enemy. Players can purchase various spells to help them target their enemies better.
Vornasri Tribe: The tribe that invokes. If the tribe is on your side, players can purchase various scrolls and one-time use spells as well as unique enchantments to destroy their enemy.
Weoan Tribe: The tribe that nurses. If the tribe is on your side, every player will gain a 3% hp increase as well as a 5% hp regen increase rate. Players can also purchase more potent potions and strengthen their creeps.
Talkaron Tribe: The tribe that leads. If the tribe is on your side, every player will help every creep around them to have a 10% damage increase and once in a while a 20% attack speed increase for 5 seconds.

The Hidden Temple is an unlockable place which can be revealed after gaining the alliance of at least three tribes, destroying the three colossi and giving at least 10000 gold to the Golden Totem. When unlocked it allows for a checkpoint to be obtained. A travelling vendor will also spawn which sells various items which cannot be used on their own but are useful as ingredients for other things. An extra boss will spawn which will be part of a universal quest. And finally, when the opposing team is about to win, a massive beast is spawned and the winning team must destroy the beast to prevent destruction.


Each team will also have three towers. For every tower still standing, 1 extra melee warrior will spawn and when all three are still present, 1 mage will spawn. The opposing team can destroy these towers.

Research By
Team OverMod™

Redefining Standards

 
Last edited:
Level 28
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
4,759
First of all enough of the boring terrain.

And this is the real list of what I want to see on a Hero-Based Map
  • Unique item system
  • A stunning hero selection system (Enough of the tavern pick :p)
  • At least give the damn map a story
  • No more first blood kill streak like dota at least try to make your own streak system
  • A 3rd person cam for a change?
I will add more later

And I hope my map is not included on the same concept map the you're saying. :psmile:
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
Thanks for your input!

Well 3rd Person cam wouldn't really work, since Birds Eye View Cam gives a more strategic approach.

In the item system, can you give an example?

I mostly follow the saying of Todd Howard(Skyrim's Project Leader) on complexity:
"Simple systems acting together create complexity that players can appreciate".
 
Level 28
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
4,759
Thanks for your input!

Well 3rd Person cam wouldn't really work, since Birds Eye View Cam gives a more strategic approach.

In the item system, can you give an example?

I mostly follow the saying of Todd Howard(Skyrim's Project Leader) on complexity:
"Simple systems acting together create complexity that players can appreciate".

Yeah 3rd person is bad, but sometimes the hero-basesd map also needs a change.

And about the item system, something like this:

You have item X then you have 3 options to upgrade it, you can buy upgrade a, b or c each have different effects. I think that is a good one without making the players mind blow.

You should always remember that players this days don't stick on very complex map/game.
 
Level 12
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
1,030
  • Include some macro-tactics, instead of just playing your hero "tactically" (Micro-tactics).
  • Lanes are boring. Unless each of them are different. Perhaps make each lane suited for some heroes and not for others?
  • Items. Less focusing on the combining with others to create new items more on one-time-use-only items. (eg. Consumables)
  • Terrain advantage. (eg. Flatland allows rangers to increase range but is more vulnerable to missile spells)
  • More than one way to win. Now that would be extremely interesting.
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
Well something has been lingering at my head for a while now.
Top Lane would be well something like a highlands. Bad on projectiles and slower .
Mid Lane is sort of a foresty part. For those stealthy heroes.
Lastly, Bottom Lane is a swamp or a wetlands. Foggy and lower accuracy.

Thanks for your input!

Also, can you tell me some possibilities for different endings and macro-management?
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
Well Mid would be ideal for Carry heroes since they can appear then pwn jo arse. They would be bad at highlands where Tanks rule. Supports would just well support. Bottom could be for those cunning heroes too, but it has decreased accuracy.

Low HP heroes tend to be Carries and Supports though. Tanks would obviously dominate early game even if they were in Bottom or Top, but not at Mid. Bottom since they dont rely on accuracy, since they are buffed up and macho mans.

But, this is all just ideas now.

EDIT
Aargh! Still need to spreads.
 
Level 12
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
1,030
I'll just explain what I meant.

Micro-management
Micro-management means managing small things, hence micro which means small (eg. microchips, microscopic). Micro-management in this case means that players only have to control their heroes on a small scale. They only need to know how to use their hero and nothing else which is why it's very small managing.

Macro-management
Macro-management, on the other hand, is management on a large scale, macro meaning big or large. Macro-management in this case would be heroes using micro-management (controlling their own heroes) and working together to achieve something (use of tactics, terrain and anything else you might implement into your game).

Different endings.
Total Control: On every lane, there are seven flags in three key points, three of one team, three for the other and one neutral. If there are so for each lane, there would be twenty-one flags in total. Non-neutral flags are called colored flags, where neutral flags are simple Neutral flags.

Flags can win in two ways. Each team flag (non-neutral flag) can generate points, as well as be used to gain possession.

Possession is a whole percentage. There are in total 18 colored flags, so for every team flag in possession, it would gain 5% possession, the last 10% acquired differently. Example: Team A has lost two flags at the beginning, giving Team B eleven flags in total, giving Team B 55% possession and Team A only 35% possession. If a team acquires 90% possession for more than (let's say) 10 minutes, they win.

Winning through points is pretty simple. Only Neutral Flags and 12 or more colored flags can generate points, so both teams start with 0 points. For every flag captured, colored or Neutral, 20 points are given to that team. If it is a Neutral Flag, points are generated at 2 per second. If a second Neutral Flag is captured, generated points are increased to 5 per second and finally if the last Neutral Flag is captured, points are increase to 10 per second. If a team has 12 colored flags or more, then points generated are increased by 2 per second (eg. If a team has 2 Neutral Flags and 14 colored flags, then they would have a point generation of 7 points per second.) The Team that has 1600 points at the end of the game, wins.

If a Team has 80% possession for more than 20 minutes and all three Neutral flags, insta-win.

Rules can be applied to flag capture. For example: When a flag is on a hero, then is decrease movement speed by 30%. Or flags can be guarded by creeps. Or maybe even Neutral flags can only be captures after fulfilling specific criterias in separate lanes (eg. Mid lane requires at least two level 6 players and 1800 gold on each player in order to be captured). If Team A is attempting to capture a Neutral flag from Team B, then heavier penalties can ensue.


Slaughter: Around the map, there can be three colossus that can be slain for a bonus. If all three colossus are slain and every player of a team has gained more than 25 kills, it would count as a win. Killing a colossus can provide different benefits. Example, killing the Shade Colossus can provide 5% damage increase while killing the Mist Colossus can provide 10% movement speed increase.


Millionaire: Each side will have two bases and two sites on each lane. At the center of the map, there will be an unlockable Hidden Ruins which can generate 700 gold per minute. One main base and a forward base. The main base generates 800 every minute while the forward base generates 300 gold every minute. Each site generates 100 gold every minute. Players cannot take out the gold generated by the bases and sites, but they can place gold in. If a team reaches the 1 million gold mark, victory.


Protector of the Land: If a player has at least 5 as a close ally for 30 minutes and manages to defend it from other tribes at least twice, victory will ensue and a cinematic will play depicting all the tribes swarming and slaying the enemy team.


Destruction: If a team has no sites or towers and has lost both their forward base and main base, then a death deal will ensue. Every player on the team without any standing structure will gain a 100% increase in damage and a 40% increase in movement speed and attack speed. But once one hero dies, it dies permanently. The team that destroyed the other teams structure must kill the remaining opposing team members to ensure victory. The main base can be restored after 12 minutes which will decrease the buffs to 50% damage increase and 20% movement and attack speed. Once at least one tower is rebuilt, then the buff is completely removed. A player will the buff will be hostile to everyone, including neutral creeps, except their own faction.


Dominance: Around the map, five neutral places will have something called checkpoints. Three extra checkpoints can be revealed, one of which can be permanently obtained. A team must gain two thirds of all checkpoints for forty minutes and survive a final attack by the opposing team. The final attack allows the attackers to have a 40% boost in attack damage and a 20% boost in attack speed. If the attack succeed, then all checkpoints are destroyed and players cannot obtain them again.


Those are simply drafts.

Other features I'd recommend would be these:
  • Locals and settlements.
    The various local tribes can either become your worst nightmare or a valuable ally. In total, there can be six tribes which will increase your creep generation and provide unique bonuses, as well as having each individual items that cannot be found anywhere else. Having a different combination of tribes will also help. Each tribe can be won over through different methods. Example:
    Malkarith Tribe: The tribe that prospers. If the tribe is on your side, it would provide an increase of 300 gold per minute plus 100 for every settlement. Players can also purchase various items to increase gold-making.
    Dandarli Tribe: The tribe that battles. If the tribe is on your side, two extra melee warriors and a healer will be generated. Players can also purchase unique items with unique effects on them for combat.
    Narkalthi Tribe: The tribe that watches. If the tribe is on your side, many of it's spies will now share vision with you and a watcher is generated every creep spawn to spy on the enemy. Players can purchase various spells to help them target their enemies better.
    Vornasri Tribe: The tribe that invokes. If the tribe is on your side, players can purchase various scrolls and one-time use spells as well as unique enchantments to destroy their enemy.
    Weoan Tribe: The tribe that nurses. If the tribe is on your side, every player will gain a 3% hp increase as well as a 5% hp regen increase rate. Players can also purchase more potent potions and strengthen their creeps.
    Talkaron Tribe: The tribe that leads. If the tribe is on your side, every player will help every creep around them to have a 10% damage increase and once in a while a 20% attack speed increase for 5 seconds.

    The Hidden Temple is an unlockable place which can be revealed after gaining the alliance of at least three tribes, destroying the three colossi and giving at least 10000 gold to the Golden Totem. When unlocked it allows for a checkpoint to be obtained. A travelling vendor will also spawn which sells various items which cannot be used on their own but are useful as ingredients for other things. An extra boss will spawn which will be part of a universal quest. And finally, when the opposing team is about to win, a massive beast is spawned and the winning team must destroy the beast to prevent destruction.


    Each team will also have three towers. For every tower still standing, 1 extra melee warrior will spawn and when all three are still present, 1 mage will spawn. The opposing team can destroy these towers.
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
Lol you should've said it would be a mega post. Also, I know micro-management and macro-management, I just want to know how macro can be implemented in an AoS, asides from tactics and things you said. Well maybe wave controlling/structural upgrades can be an option.

Thanks again for your input, well appreciated. Too bad I need to spread...

For flags, I think it would be better if it summed up to 100%, not 90%, making 20 flags. 2 could be hidden. Instead of hero carrying these flags, it would be better if it were in a structure of some sorts and to gain it you need to capture this structure.

Slaughter: Very nice idea! But, I think 25 kills is imbalanced. Maybe 20 - 23 is ok. But hey, im thinking from a mappers, not gamers perspective.

Millionaire: Sounds good! But I have a fell not much players would use this mode.

Protector of the Land: I dont get the first sentence, sadly.

Destruction: Seems very specific and less hero killing. I think players want more hero battles than structure destruction.

Dominance: I dont see a victory condition. If there is, I misunderstood you.

For the tribes: Love it!

Well I did think of something, called Tribal Warfare.
Traditional AoS gameplay, but Tribes who hone the land interfere with your battles. The tribes mostly cling in at lanes and kill any troops and have no allies, except other tribes. Tribes can be allies once killing their leader and the player which did most damage would be their Blood-Kin. Blood-Kin is a term for leader. The tribe would then interfere with the lanes, BUT be allied to you. You win the traditional way, killing the main structure. A tribe is treated enemy again when their former Blood-Kin, now a Battle-Brother, their second in command is attacked by an ally of their Blood-Kin.

Another one:
Code of War
This is made to make the AoS feel real as possible. The map would be HUGE. At the map, there are tactical locations and camps scattered by the opposing factions. There are also tribes, which are all enemies. Can be allied by negotiating (persuasion or paying), gaining trust (doing quests) or lastly, challange their Blood-Kin.

No lanes here, well they are not technically called lanes, since they are mostly jagged and broken. Units are not spawned, but are already at premade legions, which can or cant be controlled by players. There would be like a sub-mode wherein you can choose if you want to be a commander or not. Units are given a sort of AI where their party can either charge or remain and defend. Think of it as a Castle Defense + AoS + RPG. You can also upgrade your troops by hiring mercenaries or using your own gold.

Legions only move when their AI tells so, or if their commander is a hero. Camps can be captured.

Welll thats all I got now, but I will compile these stuff.

I plan yo collect these ideas and post them at the main post.
Please be noted:
This is not made for me, but all mappers. I made this thread to gather, compile and create new ideas to create a new, inventive play style for an AoS Map and/or an Arena map.
 
Level 12
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
1,030
Sorry about the Protector of the Land thing. I'll explain it fully here.

If you manage to gain a tribe as an ally, you will require to win their hearts and support. Generally, the first thing you do is complete a series of totally unrelated side-quests (eg. Kill x number of creeps, Gain this from x place), preferably three. Then a single quest is available which will lead to the next quest. That last quest will involve a selected race (Let's assume kobolds) which will invade the tribe in small groups and you must defend the tribe with minimal losses. If successful, you become an ally of the tribe.

To become a close ally, players must pay tribute to the tribe's respective totem as well as conduct two quests which will finally lead up to a final quest which involves slaying a mini-boss. Once close ally, more items or benefits will be available while existing benefits and buffs will be increased.

Once an ally or close ally to a tribe, they will never change allegiance meaning if you want to prevent any tribes from helping the enemy, you have to destroy them. If two tribes are allied with different sides, they will occasionally skirmish on the lanes alongside your faction creeps.

Protector of the Land requires a team to become a close ally to five tribes for 30 minutes. Every now and then, a kobold raiding party will attack the tribes and you must defend each one at least twice. When done, a final quest will once again be available which will involve slaying the kobold leader. From there, victory will ensue and a cinematic will play depicting the allied tribes and your factions swarming over the enemy bases in large numbers. Hardest but most rewarding way to win IMO.

Destruction is meant for players to cooperate in order to bring down heavily fortified structures. Every tower will have it's won defense mechanisms and each player must tailor their strategy according to their heroes to bring down the towers and bases whilst fending off enemy heroes. More on the macro-management scale kind of thing.

I like the idea of the tribes attacking everyone but allying with the first side that negotiates with them.
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
Ahh so thats what you meant by a close ally. Well I tend to like over-complicated quests better though.

The tribes thing IS awesome. In my opinion, a MUST to include for those who wants to create a new generation of AoS maps.

How about those smaller factors at games? Such as creeps, bases, hero play style? What can be improved by them?
 

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 40
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
13,182
1. nice playable terain not suck boring terain as in dota etc, nice triggered spells with nice visual effects, equipment system and fullscreen hero selection system.

3. they are all (mostly) copies of dota with bad terain and the tavern of heroes etc
4. english, know how to use hotkeys, general gameknowage not just randomly pressing buttons
5. upgrade the normal systems and suggestions for that are allready mentioned
 
Level 5
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
107
Something I would love to see is some truly interactive environments that have lots of variables put in. So even though you're limited ability-wise, you can't just have this great item set that blows everything away anyway. Or spells that go over all the terrain and make the game less fun because one person can do something about it and the other can't because of their hero.

It would be nice to see day-night shifts, real ones, as well. Perhaps triggered things involving the environment. If you go into a foggy forest, trigger that the hero loses sight range. If you're going through a marsh, you lose movement speed (even with boots of speed. I don't care what enchantment you have, you're not going to road-runner through thick muck without tripping.)

Perhaps some obstacles are a bit too powerful. Although I imagine it'd be complicated, perhaps spells like Shockwave could, while maybe being enough to knock down trees, would be reduced to nothing by rock and mountain walls. Perhaps certain spells could leave behind doodad effects that go away after a short time. (Like cinematic fire doodads. Though I imagine this has already been done before.)

I could go on and on with ideas, but I'm sure someone would have enough creativity to figure it all out. Just a place that feels real, and creates real issues. Where even the farthest shooting bow, the plowing tank, or the catastrophic spell would be hindered.

Alternatively, something that would make me awfully surprised and happy with a map, especially an AoS, would be an AI system. Where a hero plays just like a player. Has realistic goals, custom builds, uses abilities correctly and at certain times, and simply makes the game a difficult, enjoyable experience. Maybe even communicating with the player, and finding intelligent workarounds for the environmental obstacles that it encounters.

That's my two cents, I might post more later if I have any ideas.
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
1. nice playable terain not suck boring terain as in dota etc, nice triggered spells with nice visual effects, equipment system and fullscreen hero selection system.

3. they are all (mostly) copies of dota with bad terain and the tavern of heroes etc
4. english, know how to use hotkeys, general gameknowage not just randomly pressing buttons
5. upgrade the normal systems and suggestions for that are allready mentioned

Thanks! Well this is good suggestions for the current AoS maps now though, not those core flaws.

Thanks again for your input!

Something I would love to see is some truly interactive environments that have lots of variables put in. So even though you're limited ability-wise, you can't just have this great item set that blows everything away anyway. Or spells that go over all the terrain and make the game less fun because one person can do something about it and the other can't because of their hero.

Hmm... Interactive environments. I think you are saying those below. Also, a logical weather for the created environment is nice. Say random sandstorms for a desert or heavy rains that reduce armor and mobility for forests.

That could do, right?

It would be nice to see day-night shifts, real ones, as well. Perhaps triggered things involving the environment. If you go into a foggy forest, trigger that the hero loses sight range. If you're going through a marsh, you lose movement speed (even with boots of speed. I don't care what enchantment you have, you're not going to road-runner through thick muck without tripping.)

Yes, this has been thought about at a previous post. As for day-night shifts reduced visibility and lower damage from holy/light-related spells could do? Also, greater damage from dark/night-themed spells.

Perhaps some obstacles are a bit too powerful. Although I imagine it'd be complicated, perhaps spells like Shockwave could, while maybe being enough to knock down trees, would be reduced to nothing by rock and mountain walls. Perhaps certain spells could leave behind doodad effects that go away after a short time. (Like cinematic fire doodads. Though I imagine this has already been done before.)

Well stuff like Fire Walls are done, this obstacles thing are pretty good factor to note for gameplay. In my opinion, they allow the player to think as a tactician and act as one.

I could go on and on with ideas, but I'm sure someone would have enough creativity to figure it all out. Just a place that feels real, and creates real issues. Where even the farthest shooting bow, the plowing tank, or the catastrophic spell would be hindered.


Alternatively, something that would make me awfully surprised and happy with a map, especially an AoS, would be an AI system. Where a hero plays just like a player. Has realistic goals, custom builds, uses abilities correctly and at certain times, and simply makes the game a difficult, enjoyable experience. Maybe even communicating with the player, and finding intelligent workarounds for the environmental obstacles that it encounters.

That's my two cents, I might post more later if I have any ideas.

AI's now are really... suckish. Realism is the primary goal of any map, even if if is fantasy/sci-fi themed, am I right?

Thanks much for your input!
 
Level 4
Joined
Nov 13, 2010
Messages
53
When you make interactive enviroment perhaps you could also make a weather system?
Certain spells and abilities would get buffed/debuffed turning certain weather. Perhaps you could also add a fire rain?

Also, I was thinking that perhaps the team could elect a team Captain who has limited control over creep spawning and base defenses.
A Captain would be able to increase the spawn of creeps in one location, while lessening it in the other location. You could also make it so the more you push the opponent back, the more leadership skill you gain and the more you can change the spawns in each of your spawn points. You could also use the Tribe thing here, make the captain be able to command the tribes that are allied to the team.

I also had an idea about nights. Instead of just making you see less, how about making the nights Actually dark and dangerous. I mean having the player see very little without a torch or some other item that generates light and having night creeps spawn and attack both of the teams forces. Could also make it so surviving the night can be hard and that one of the goals of the game is just to survive to see the next day.

Also, instead of having outposts that can simply be captured by attacking/standing, how about make it so after you capture it, your teams workers spawn in your base and move to the outpost and construct an actual outpost. While constructing, it's weak, but once it has finished, it could have a tower or 2 and a barracks that spawns creeps for your team.

Invasions would be pretty cool aswell, if balanced right. Basically what i mean by invasions is that the team can choose to spawn a large group of units over a few mins and then have them charge the enemy base. The enemy team would be notified once the invasion army starts gathering to prepare for it.

Manable te towers or towers controlled by a remote could be a new edition aswell.
Manable towers would require a unit or a hero to enter it. Perhaps make it so all towers are manned by creeps usually but the player can enter them to control them and have an ability or 2.
Remote controlled towers would mean that somewhere there would be a button that turns off a certain tower. If the enemy manages to get to the remote, he can deactivate the tower and your team would have to reactivate it later.
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,789
A rain of fire, sounds creative, but maybe imbalanced, unless applied only to a certain area, which makes it look unnatural.

Captains huh, well I had an idea earlier regarding that you can either lead legions, which are mass number of units or not. Instead of waves, legions are used and its up to you to use them. Well that maybe nice, but it would make the players attention divided, which is bad.

Yeah, I just watched Decisive Battles on one battle when they were attacked at night. It game me inspiration. Your idea, seems good. Maybe some tribes tend to attack more at night, or ghostly beings pop at your face then kill you!

That outpost thing, well many already thought of that, I think. Been around my mind. Even though, good idea.

Well this is sorta like the legion thing I mentioned (Invasions).

The towers, I thought of it that it can only attack if a unit is loaded into it, like the Orc Burrows. Also, I thought of a sort of lever, which can be only be activated once at a tower, which blasts like an uber beam of something.
The remote thing = futuristic.

Thanks for your input!
 
Level 6
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
300
This might have been said already, but I'd like too see a couple of different winning conditions.

Especially "one winning condition - multiplies way to get there"-type of concepts.

Let's pretend that you're supposed to reach a number of points, say 100.
If you imagine two bases, belonging to each respective team, and the area between those bases.
That area between the bases, there could be some capturable buildings inside that area, that when captured, try to send supplies back to your base.
The caravan could be killed on it's way, and it would require a fully connected supply line back to your team's base.

Bad schematic layout:
Code:
    x __ x
  /  \   / \
 o     y    p 
  \   / \  /
    x -- x

o = team 1's base
p = team 2's base
x = standard supply base
y = high-yield supply base
\, /, - = supply lines

This kind of setup could give birth to a lot of different 'maps', or battlegrounds.
A team could also apply different strategies like a maximizing strategy or an optimal strategy.
(Maximal strategy = strategy that takes advantage of opponents' weaknesses)
(Optimal strategy = strategy that tries to minimize potential losses.)
There might even be some nash equilibrium involved in this design.

A random idea, that certainly has been done before - but an idea that I haven't actually seen executed.
 
Level 6
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
300
In game theory, non-cooperative and cooperative aren't really what you'd expect them to be (from a player's perspective).

Non-cooperative game is when you don't have to factor in other peoples' actions. (Sort of.)
Cooperative game is when you have to factor in other peoples' actions, and how you can affect other peoples' actions.

Very badly explained, so hopefully wiki does a better job :)
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,097
There's one thing I saw once, where the heroes have intercrossing backstory: for example two sister archers on opposite sides, where one was taken by the undead forces. What I would liked to have seen is some kind of interaction on that, like extra damage or saying something when killed.

Also, AI heroes. You just don't see enough of those.
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,097
Well obviously not ALL of them, unless they have very awkward family reunions. But things like, say, one joined the evil side out of choice and the other vowed to stop him, two rivals who thought joining either side would give them better opportunities, etc.

You can recycle just about any plot device and it can still fit.


I like a level of thematic cohesion too: if it's mostly magic, the robot with the rocket launcher is going to stand out.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
112
how about this..

No premade heroes.
You start as a simple unit. you upgrade skills and attributes. and learn spells on a school of magic sumthin sumthin located at your base. then you buy or craft armors. From zero to hero, that's how it really works anyway. realism.
 
Level 3
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
51
Here's what I am currently working on,

Multiple heroes per game, when spawning, you have a choice between 2-3 free heroes (ghoul, acolyte, crypt fiend), and better heroes (abominations, necromancers, frost wyrm) cost in game credits earned through combat. This is much like items in regular AoS, but instead of buying permanent items, you can "buy a hero" to replace your current one.

Note: Credit isn't permanent either, you start with 0 at the beginning of each game.

Permanent death, once you die, you don't respawn back with your hero, you have to select a new one again, if you have enough credits, you can instantly spawn with an high tier hero, if you don't, there's the free heroes you can use. Max level per heroes is around 4-5.

No skill trees, instead of upgrading skills you have from your skill tree, each time you gain a level, you can select from a number of skills only avaible for that level. Replayability comes from different builds.

Factions, instead of a big pool of hero units to choose from, they are seperated by factions (Undead, NE, Humans, Orcs) that you have to pick at the beginning of the game.

Dynamic bases, bases aren't static like DotA or any MobA games out there, they're pretty much like your standard melee matches of Wc3 with ressource gathering and the like. They're managed by the computer.
 
Level 28
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
3,097
Not sure how well this'd work out, but:

On a 3-or-more player map, the center holds an artifact of some kind. When activated (a hero gets a certain number of kills, channels a countdown uninterrupted, all three Mcguffins are inserted in the artifact, etc.) an event occurs that forces all players to cooperate. Something along the lines of releasing a terrible and ancient evil, that is strong enough to match the assembled players.

All players are teleported to a separate battlefield during the event, but are still hostile to each other so they can "accidentally" incapacitate rival players while taking out the monster.

An alternative would be to keep everything on the same battlefield, but with the monster summoning his own creep waves against the bases.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top