Beyond the Throne: Tides of Darkness

Kam · Apr 15, 2009

I'd like to do a winter map, but those are always a challenge.

arthas_king · Apr 15, 2009

Why dont do one based on Alterac mountains or outside Ironforge? =)

Ham Ham · Apr 15, 2009

Hi Kam, I played the first versions last year, I dont like it much, but I played these lastversions: the map really became great! Thats the best wc2 to wc3 conversion I ever played. Congrats.
and I have some suggestions:

1) What about giving Knights the Cleaving Attack ability instead Footmans? So, the Footies wold act as a defensive unit (you can make a research called Mistic Armor that would increase footies armor by 4, or just give Taunt ability). In that way, Footmans would act as defensive units, and archers and knights as ofensive ones.

2) Dont you think the starting current food to much? You should make it smaller, so people would have to build more farms.

3) The only thing I disliked the map is the heroes. First, shouldnt I able to choose them? Why when I start playing, I have a pre-placed hero? (PS: I already checked if, the option to start melee maps with pre-placed heroes is off. It was off, but it still started with pre-placed heroes.) Second, looks like you have made some fusion betwen the wc3 and wc2 heroes, like, I started with an archer hero called Sylvanas. Shouldnt it be the legendary Alleria? Also, you need to give the heroes some spells.

4)Zul'Jin - The Hive Workshop - A Warcraft III Modding Site
If you decide to add Zul'Jin, use this model, it does kick ass =D
There were also a Wc2 Orc Barracks by Red XVII, but I cant find.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource.php?t=49455&prev=search=Male%20Archer&d=list&r=20
You can use this for Elven Archers
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource.php?t=48316&prev=search=Male%20Archer&d=list&r=20
And this for Rangers
Otherwise, great map! 5/5

EDIT: PS: About a snow map, I can make the terrain for you, if you want.

Kam · Apr 15, 2009

I thought about it, but footmen needed something to make them more valuable - they were kind of bleh.

The starting food is enough to make two more workers for gold and five for lumber for a total of 12 workers. I find this to be a good starting number.

No I don't want people to choose their hero. They have their passive bonus aura ability and an inventory, this makes them a very valuable unit. I want it to be random so players adapt and learn to use different strategies. Also in the campaigns of WC 2 you were always given your heroes and that was it, no choosing.

I'd be great if you did some terrain. I can't promise I will end up using it, I am extremely picky when it comes to terrain. Don't let me stop you though! =)

Ham Ham · Apr 15, 2009

k, then I'll take a work on it. How many players you want? Do you want a completely custom terrain with totaly unique things, or a map with melee traces? (Like, you just have your base, enemy bases, some roads, and creeps to kill.)

Kam · Apr 15, 2009

The current map is what it should conform too.

6 players, melee map design, open water areas for naval, not spread out, small map size (no medium/large/epic maps), some kind of winter tile set ( I do like the ice texture from the Icecrown Glacier set)

Those would be the basic guidelines. Oh and no waygates please, this map has quite enough of that.

Ham Ham · Apr 18, 2009

ah, and I forgot to ask how much neutral gold mines and how much creep camps you want.

Kam · Apr 18, 2009

Mystic Isles has a good number of creep camps, but basically where it feels like there should be one. I like there to be less neutral mines than players, 4 neutral mines is good for 6 players.

Ham Ham · Apr 21, 2009

I've been busy for the last days, and for now, I could just make a sample. Just to see if you like the concept. Those watter channels will be used for the boat trafic. (dont worry about the bridges, the boats will able to go under them with waygates).

CHA_Owner · Apr 21, 2009

to limit the submarines from shallow water is by creating a region over all the shallow water areas and using a command to order unit to stop/travel in opposite direction create the unit-type under conditions and pick submarine or w/e you dont want to go.

Kam · Apr 21, 2009

Ham Ham: That's a good start, but I don't really like grid style maps. You'll notice that Mystic Isles has a feeling of randomness to it, like it was created by nature. I suggest not mapping it out in your head and just going with the flow. Try just placing start locations where you want them in general, and then randomly molding the terrain around them.

CHA Owner: I've tried this in the past, it doesn't really work and causes a lot of confusion for the player.

arthas_king · Apr 21, 2009

Hey,i tested your map again when you fixed it and it worked

i like the random hero style and the techtrees!Good work!

CHA_Owner · Apr 21, 2009

You could make floating text above the unallowed region to tell the player

Kam · Apr 22, 2009

So I've been balancing some units and making revisions to some of the triggers; is there anything that you really want to see added/removed/altered/etc?

I'd like to see some suggestions more for how to alter existing units rather than additions, perhaps some passive ability suggestions.

arthas_king · Apr 22, 2009

Well i have some active/passive suggestions:At level 5 the hero you have will get a spell Str=Cleave Agi=Wind walk Int=Flame Blast(Fire Bolt) What do you think?At least that will make aiming harder!

Ham Ham · Apr 30, 2009

Also, am I allowed to use custom doodads/trees?

Kam · May 1, 2009

Sure, as long as they have all the correct animations.

punwisp · May 6, 2009

I'm wondering, from viewing those pics on first page, why are paladins knights? There were Knights in warcraft 2

, why not just use the paladin model with the deleted glows, so they seem like normal units? Besides, majority of paladins uses maces, or at least they prefer maces.

Kam · May 6, 2009

Knights and Paladins use a different model in my map, they don't look the same.

CHA_Owner · May 7, 2009

I really enjoyed playing this and i have nothing bad to report ill give you a 5/5

Kam · May 9, 2009

So I'm looking for feedback on a possible third race, any suggestions or help is appreciated. Also, here's a preview of the new mini map.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/nerubian-race-feedback-126945/

Edit: And if anyone has a workaround for Vexorians Optimizer not functioning properly due to the last patch please let me know.

Delterius · May 14, 2009

Finally I can play this and Its great!
Oh, looks like you added my suggestion about the command auras. (i think

)

Kam · May 15, 2009

Yes there are special auras now. The next version is done too, I'm just waiting for Blizzard to patch 1.24.

Delterius · May 16, 2009

Oh, I'm looking forward to it... although my friends won't play war3 any longer

Kam · May 16, 2009

Oh really, they lose their accounts?

HFR · May 17, 2009

Kam said:
Yes there are special auras now. The next version is done too, I'm just waiting for Blizzard to patch 1.24.

Why?

Kam · May 17, 2009

They screwed over Vexorians Map Optimizer, and I don't want to release my map when bnet is deserted due to the exploit.

HFR · May 17, 2009

Oh, Understood. But, if Blizzard never release the patch?

Kam · May 17, 2009

They will, the dota community is pressuring them to hurry up.

Delterius · May 17, 2009

Kam said:
Oh really, they lose their accounts?

No no... they just quitted it sadly.

They just can't balance war3 and wow like me

HFR · May 17, 2009

Kam said:
They will, the dota community is pressuring them to hurry up.

Right, Blizz will never leave the dotards alone.

Delterius · May 17, 2009

HFR said:
Right, Blizz will never leave the dotards alone.

At least this time Dota is useful.

arthas_king · May 17, 2009

Y at least it keeps WC3 alive but it sucks dotard

supertoinkz · May 19, 2009

I love it!! when i play it on computer, i just automass ships

.
Anyways, i have one question. Campaign?

Kam · May 19, 2009

I've thought about it, but I really am not as devoted as I used to be. A campaign is a large undertaking. I am working on the possible third race though. =)

Delterius · May 20, 2009

Well Linaze is trying to make a campaign already... what if they need help?

supertoinkz · May 20, 2009

what's the next race? the unknown?

Kam · May 20, 2009

No, I call them the Seed. You'll see soon. =)

arthas_king · Jun 8, 2009

Seed?The darkelven race with trees for units!

Kam · Jun 9, 2009

Haha not quite. See the image.

Also, new version is due out the instant I find something to protect it with, Vexorian's currently does not protect object editor data from being opened.

*Note: Third race will not be in next version, too much is yet undone.

punwisp · Jun 9, 2009

Heh, your expanding past wc2 =)

arthas_king · Jun 9, 2009

Zergs have teamed up with Nerubians!OMG

,we will all die!

Kam · Jun 9, 2009

Well I admit they are zerg based, but they won't play like them. I'm having some trouble deciding what to do with them at the moment.

Does anyone have a recommendation for map protection?

Kam · Jun 10, 2009

New version up, enjoy and post your feedback.

arthas_king · Jun 11, 2009

I have a suggestion,add a spell at each hero (told this before) for str heroes add the spell ''bloodlust'' so they can cast it by themselves,at int add the spell ''fireball'' and at agility add the spell ''wind walk''.This will make tha game funnier

.

Delterius · Jun 17, 2009

I don't think that Wind Walk is a good suggestion for it is more effective than Fireball and self-cast only Bloodlust.

Maybe that can work through without super spells such as those of normal heroes (apart from the auras) that change gameplay, taking the necessity of creating an army out of it.

Self-cast only buffs seem to be a good suggestion to me.

Elven Spellmake · Jun 22, 2009

After playing this version, the humans seem less worthless than they did before and they have a bit more oomph back into them.

However those Dragons are far, far, far too strong, the Gryphons need an upgrade to strike multiple targets and even then only in a line and weaker.

The Dragon's splash attack for miles and for far to much damage and the Burning Oil is an absolute pain and nearly impossible to combat.

Please consider removing the Burning Oil and lowering the splash damage hugely of the Dragons, as they are already stronger than the Gryphons, they do splash damage in a circle and not a line and don't need an upgrade to do this ridiculous splash damage.

If you can do that then I think its far more balanced and fair.

supertoinkz · Jul 3, 2009

last night, i dreamt about battle realms

so a suggestion came by
grunt->legionnaire footman->captain
catapult->demolisher ballista->glaive thrower

suggestions only "D

Kam · Jul 3, 2009

Interesting. I'm not sure about the catapult/ballista upgrade, but I would definitely consider the tech1 melee upgrade. Perhaps they could be upgrades available at the Church and Altar of Storms. What does a legionnaire look like?

On a side note, I still need some model edits done for the 3rd race.

VeljkoM · Jul 3, 2009

So the tier one units will have upgrades that will make them useful latter in game?

Do you have any screen shots of third race (or at least part of it)?

Beyond the Throne: Tides of Darkness

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