Why have wc3 maps evolved in to Income Per turn

[SNIper of DARKness]

So since Risk basically introduced the income timer (every 1 or 2 minutes you get resources), all maps that use this system have taken to being called "risk games", even though many of them are very far from that.

However, from Azeroth Wars ( and all their spin offs), Greece, World in Flames, LOTR, War in the Plaguelands, basically all the grand strategy maps have taken to this concept.

I just want to discuss why this has become the norm, is it good? Isn't it just making all maps the same? Why no one uses the Gold mines.

 

[Duckfarter]

I think gathering resources adds extra steps of complexity, not enjoyed by most casual players. A system of income is clear and simple. In theory it should increase the total amount of complexity available for other parts of the game.

 

[SNIper of DARKness]

I think gathering resources adds extra steps of complexity, not enjoyed by most casual players. A system of income is clear and simple. In theory it should increase the total amount of complexity available for other parts of the game.

My question relates more to why is it income per turn rather than just making you gain resources with normal game ticks. Like I understand buildings that generate resources but why is it every 2 minutes, why not all the time?

 

[Duckfarter]

Take Risk as an example, the exact timing offers some offensive tactics, destroying enemy income right before its gained or gaining additional income right before the income which would give an incentive for such tactics. It adds a lot of weight and stress/panic to the situation. Now imagine that being pulled off on several different fronts, it would have a detrimental effect on enemy economy compared to only losing income for 15 seconds or so. It throws turn-base into the mix whilst not really being turn-based. Now for Risk that to me seems like a very good mechanic compared to more of a normal game ticks gold approach.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Why no one uses the Gold mines.

They wanted to use custom or complex income mechanics, but lacked the ability to trigger a reliable and performant constant income system. They could have turned it into a constant flow of income over time without impacting gameplay.

I believe Risk did it because Risk, the board game it was inspired by, had turns? As such it is a deliberate choice, possibly trying to emulate board game or turn based mechanics into real time.

Gold mines are often inappropriate for such games, since they are based on capture point mechanics, or income buildings like the old Azeroth Wars, rather than resource gathering.

 

[Uncle]

I can't speak for every map on that list, but I imagine it's because a stream of constant income pressures the Player to constantly spend said income. That would interfere with the primary focus of the map which is -> Micro intensive battles. These battles are likely considered the most fun aspect therefore all other systems should be designed around amplifying that fun rather than taking you away from it. You don't want to punish the Player for enjoying a core aspect of the map and you definitely don't want to overwhelm them to the point of stress and exhaustion.

I also think, and with all due respect, that a decent chunk of modders simply lack the ability to create more intricate systems. I've helped many people with their maps (some fairly popular ones) and when I open the map I am almost always greeted with gum and paperclips holding the whole thing together. So a more advanced system just ain't in the cards. That being said, these maps have often been passed between different authors over the years and have become a sort of amalgamation of ideas, dev skill levels, and best solutions "at that time" so it's not really a big surprise that the map is messy. Another factor is a lack of information, for example, people to this day fail to create a proper Dummy unit which is a fairly crucial thing to get right. But it's hard to blame them when most of the information out there on the topic is either incorrect or outdated (the helper and world editor tutorials come up as #2 and #3 in a google search despite being 18 years old and filled with misinformation).

 

[SNIper of DARKness]

So instead of income per turn being the peak of wc3 gaming, it is simply the easiest thing to do and copy from the other maps, which now has become synonymous with Risk, even maps that have nothing to do with Risk but that still use a Income per turn are categorised as Risk.

I am rather disappointed, I would have thought that this would have been some kind of Dawrwinism of mechanics, where everything has been tried and the income per turn is the most viable of all income mechanics.
Do you think another reason for this is to simplify the economy mechanics, and reduce harassability of workers?

I am very curious about how this became the absolute norm, where even very big projects from the biggest map makers use the same income per turn mechanics found in Risk.

 

[Tasyen]

no goldmine workers also keeps the unit count lower, as warcraft 3 has some problem with many moving units per player.

 

[SNIper of DARKness]

no goldmine workers also keeps the unit count lower, as warcraft 3 has some problem with many moving units per player.

They can use the Night Elf or Undead mining system.

 

[Tasyen]

yes, but that still takes units, has a goldmine gold amount and now someone needs to put that workers into the mine or someone can kill them. adds mircro managment, probably unwanted.

 

[Uncle]

So instead of income per turn being the peak of wc3 gaming, it is simply the easiest thing to do and copy from the other maps, which now has become synonymous with Risk, even maps that have nothing to do with Risk but that still use a Income per turn are categorised as Risk.

I am rather disappointed, I would have thought that this would have been some kind of Dawrwinism of mechanics, where everything has been tried and the income per turn is the most viable of all income mechanics.
Do you think another reason for this is to simplify the economy mechanics, and reduce harassability of workers?

I am very curious about how this became the absolute norm, where even very big projects from the biggest map makers use the same income per turn mechanics found in Risk.

At the end of the day we're playing Warcraft 3 here, so you're rather limited in what you can do or at least what your players should be expected to do.

You have the standard gold mine mechanic and you have triggers that can Add gold when some "Event" occurs. This Event is often time based, which makes sense for the "risk" style maps for reasons I mentioned earlier, although those were just my thoughts and opinions on the matter. Those maps can also reward gold for kills, destroying/capturing towers, and completing other objectives, so income can come from more than just a periodic event. But ALL maps are somewhat limited to the confines of Warcraft 3.

Also, I think another factor that comes into play here is the difficulty in trying to get new players to adopt your interesting mechanics. Using tried and true mechanics that people are familiar with is a safer bet since people will immediately know what to do. It makes sense to aim for this, at least when starting out, if you want your map to be popular.

From a creative standpoint, I agree that it's a shame to see a lack of new ideas, although I don't play enough Warcraft 3 to make this statement with confidence. Maybe the more creative maps just aren't as popular? Maybe these maps just need a little better advertising.

I remember there was a map called Desert of Exile back in the day that was a much more polished "DotA" which was well-thought-out, innovative, and crafted by skilled devs and artists. We're talking custom skins for every hero, a custom Condition (buff) system that all abilities adhered to, and unique items which often had downsides along with their perks - plus they could only be purchased with a unique resource that was earned from hero kills/conquering bases. Unfortunately, DotA's simplicity won in the end (I say with 10k hours of playtime in DotA 2, sometimes simple is good).