- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
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- 6,677
Where'd all the SC2 modding hype go? I haven't tuned into it since beta, so I'm curious... did Blizzard screw it up or something?
The modding of StarCraft II is not just «bad here at the Hive». I have yet to see a map on Battle.Net that truly shows the «power» of the editor that so many keep squeaking about.
Nailed it.The data editor is cool, but really, it can't do everything, plus most complex things take massive amounts of time to do anyways. Giving us better coding support would've eliminated the need for such a complex data editor, taken a tiny portion of the time to make, and drastically increased the capabilities of what mods could do.
Actually im starting to realize a great deal of freedom has been removed along with SC2.
I miss channels, and hosting your own games. How will i now discover a fun map if no people will join because it's on page 5 or whatever. It's really weird.
This is to make people play more. People used to rage over every individual loss as they were recorded publicilly and acted as awards of degredation.I do not like the fact they removed loss count for people under Master
But you do... Just you need a link to the persons name. They should let you /w a certain user name from any text chatable field to open a conversation with the target. The target is choosen first by name (as some names are unique) and then by friends list if not (as you mostly want to wisper your friends). /R should also be added so you can quick reponse people from ingame without opening the conversation window.nor the fact we don't have whisper
How is that map abusing it? Anyway, nothing is wrong with that system as popular maps usually are popular for a reason. The problem is there is no "games needing players" view so you can not find players for unpopular maps. It is basically a lottery to get a player to join a map that is not on the first 4 pages odd as nobody has any idea of what games people are waiting for players with.The popularity system, being based on time played, is being abused, for example, by "Squadron TD".
Yeh the mod system is currently broken. The idea was to get public resources into mods which a map then depends on resulting in are shared between maps and map version only having to be downloaded once. The problem is the editor bugs for multiple dependencies and that you just lack the ability to depend on someone else's mod (you can not see public mods). The result is that every map maker has to upload a mod with all art he uses downloaded from a site like this which might remove the version parallelisim WC3 has but still keeps the map parallelisim.This whole «total map control» concept screwed up things for modding websites -- I feel clueless about how to structure the website around this «mod» concept, what, are they going to have dozens of mods with repeated resources in them? Not to mention it is malfunctioning for what I've read.
In the example I referred, the mapper sets things to the longest wait time possible so that people spend more time in the game. I'm not saying the map wouldn't get popular -- it is a nice concept --, but it would certainly not be as popular.
The idea is modding sites advertise them. You are only given 100 letters odd to label a mod in the editor so external resources would be needed.the need to download those mods only once would kinda screw the modding sites.
So you basically spent a lot of time learning what fields do? The data system in SC2 follows simple rules of database systems. The only problem is finding what all the fields do as a lot of crutial documentation from blizzard is missing. If they wrote an indepth guide like what intel did for the x86 architecture then using the editor is prety easy. Sadly we have to rely on a lot of trial an error to find how exactly the fields work (especially actor events where no documentation was provided).Ironically, I have become one of the foremost experts on the Data Editor because of this.
I have been telling this to people for ages. The problem with duplication in SC2 is some default value fields break their references and references to the object are not also duplicated meaning a lot of references get lost. You can also take advantage of inhertance with making your own data elements which saves space, improves maintainability and allows for some clever triggering.Modders, in general, are finding that they actually have to develop good habits when creating custom content in SC2 or the editor will massacre them. The most obvious example would be the fact that people try to duplicate objects rather than making them from scratch. It is honestly better AND faster to create a new object and link it to your other custom objects. You avoid more bugs, develop good habits and actually learn the editor.
Most people do not know much about WC3 at all. 90% of the remaining moders for it still use GUI. A lot of people do not even realise there is an attack rate limit in WC3. The fact is not very good modders could still make a working WC3 map (which no one plays because it is not very good) while SC2 actually needs an element of skill above that inorder to even make a functional map.In general, the modding community is used to the WC3 environment where things are known, widely used and predictable. Rather than understand that a new editor means starting over, people just assume that SC2 should pick up where WC3 left off and instantly have a vast array of awesomeness that everyone can use. This is laziness and the ultimate reason why the community is uneasy.
This is to make people play more. People used to rage over every individual loss as they were recorded publicilly and acted as awards of degredation.
But you do... Just you need a link to the persons name. They should let you /w a certain user name from any text chatable field to open a conversation with the target. The target is choosen first by name (as some names are unique) and then by friends list if not (as you mostly want to wisper your friends). /R should also be added so you can quick reponse people from ingame without opening the conversation window.
So you basically spent a lot of time learning what fields do? The data system in SC2 follows simple rules of database systems. The only problem is finding what all the fields do as a lot of crutial documentation from blizzard is missing. If they wrote an indepth guide like what intel did for the x86 architecture then using the editor is prety easy. Sadly we have to rely on a lot of trial an error to find how exactly the fields work (especially actor events where no documentation was provided).
A true expert must be master of both data and triggering inorder to interface the two systems in a flawless and efficent manner.
Not exactly. You don't have to master both Data and Triggers to make amazing things in the editor. One significant difference between SC2 and past editors is that you can make an entire map through Data or Triggers and publish it. That's not to say that you shouldn't know a lil' about Triggers or a lil' about Data Editing, but saying that you must master both is almost like saying, "you must know everything about this editor" which is going to take years. The bottom line is, it is far better to specialize in one part of the editor and then co-op with others than it is to attempt to do everything on your own. SC2 really doesn't lend itself to the solo modder. If you are attempting to make a superbly polished mod/map on your own you are going to be spending a great deal of time more than you should need to and you will almost always lag behind modding pairs/teams.
Again, simple CS stuff. Effects with high order of complexity or itteration rate need to be as light weight as possible.You can achieve the same effect through multiple venues and knowing the most efficient method of doing this is the majority of work in the Data Editor.
That sounds like those people were not paying much attention to their map lol.Essentially, even though we know what 90% of the fields do in certain areas, there are still so many fields there that wondering which combination of fields we should use is the greater challenge. I can't tell you how many maps I've looked through for modders only to realize that they created the exact same ability 4 different ways for 4 different heroes.
JackRCDF, it is logical that making your own game is more flexible than modding an existing game. If you wanted to you could make any game engine you want from total scratch using the DX11 SDK, windows SDK and Visual C++ IDE. This however would take a stupid amount of time managing simple stuff but the end result will be much better.
Yes, SC2 can not make the next Mass Effect or Super Smash Brothers game but those are games made with approximatly equal development resources.
SC2 however can make hundreds of thousands of maps of which some are unique and could potentially be worth more to some one than the orignal game.
I have no problem learning new things; the problem I have with the editor is the ugly and inefficient UI, and limited yet bloated data editor. Compared to SDKs like UDK and cryengine, galaxyedit is a sad old beast which could have been done so muh better. With that said, I'll still use galaxyedit because the userbase is fairly large and I enjoy pushing limitations; however, for a more professional project I'll use a proper game engine and editor.
The editor still has some very strict rules you must follow. You can not get more than 14 players in a game for example. Where as you can make games with even 32 people in a game at a time if you code it correctly.
Yeh but in separate games this is possible. Especially FPS games which SC2's engine lacks good support for (as its a RTS).(due to things like performance issues and the general difficulty of getting that many people to join).
The editor still has some very strict rules you must follow. You can not get more than 14 players in a game for example. Where as you can make games with even 32 people in a game at a time if you code it correctly.