Larger maps?

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Hey, I haven't been keeping tabs on SC2 since I realized how lack-luster the custom content was (did they ever fix that horrid popularity system?) But I'm curious if it's even possible to get massive maps, like in WC3 you could get insanely huge maps, like 400x400, and I'm just curious if the same will eventually be possible on SC2. I have a map I want to make, but the current map sizes are so tiny it looks like crap (space map, space needs... well... space) So I'm just wondering if it's even possible with the code to get a third party editor that allows for xbox hueg maps. Thanks in advance for any responses :D
 
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Yeah but even that has it's limits, I made a map on WC3 with a 400x400, AND everything shrunk down. I had entire star systems (planets revolving around suns) and slipspace abilities, along with a portion of the map seperated for land-based stuff. Even if I shrunk everything (which I have done), it still wont be enough.
 
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It's probably possible :) but, with the new terrain-texture system, 256x256 maps with normal terrain fills up like 2mb, so a 400x400 is like 5-6mb, and you have a limit of 10mb for each map at the moment.

Yeah, it's this kind of limitations and restrictions that kept me from buying the game to begin with. If they didn't decide to use their absolutely horrid, and stupid "hurr host it on our serves" method, people could continue to create whatever the hell they wanted. Sigh, the editor is good, but in a lot of ways it, and other custom content, are vastly inferior to WC3. I'd love a blend of the two. WC3's method of custom content, peer to peer downloads and whatnot, no restrictions on names or words used in the map, or the content of the map. But with SC2s editor, god that'd be epic.
 

Dr Super Good

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Apparently, multiplayer multi map support is implimented although it does require everyone to change map at the same time. Yet to see someone use this though (as those who would want to would generally spend time actually making 2 or more decent maps).

RTS games (the core of SC2) are not made for massivly enourmous maps and even 400*400 maps in WC3 caused lag on the best of computers if made well. If you want a huge map, reduce scale or break it appart into separate areas (each being a separate game).
 
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Apparently, multiplayer multi map support is implimented although it does require everyone to change map at the same time. Yet to see someone use this though (as those who would want to would generally spend time actually making 2 or more decent maps).

RTS games (the core of SC2) are not made for massivly enourmous maps and even 400*400 maps in WC3 caused lag on the best of computers if made well. If you want a huge map, reduce scale or break it appart into separate areas (each being a separate game).

Map size isn't what caused lag in WC3, what was on it did. I remember playing some 400x400 WW2 game, THAT was laggy. But on the flip-side, if I played a 400x400 galactic conquest, it ran fine. Simply because, while it was the same size, it had significantly less content. It was all just blank open space.

But ultimately, it should be up to the map makers, not Blizzard. This hand-holding, limitations they've imposed is the sole reason I wont buy SC2. It simply isn't their place to tell me how large my map can be, or what I put into it, or what I name it. SC and WC3 worked because people could litterally create anything they damn-well pleased, that doesn't exist in SC2. It's ironic because SC2's editor allows us to create almost anything, but blizzard wont.

If I wannt spend my time making a giant 400x400 map, that's a gigabyte in size, and that no-one will ever play because it lags. That's MY choice, Blizzard shouldn't be making it for me. If the map's too large, and lags. Surprise, people wont play it. Seriously, I can't stand this big-brother mentality, it absolutely ruins the game and it's such a shame.

My only hope is that we get a third party editor, like in WC3 and SC, and can truly create anything we want. Sure Blizzard will continue being assholes, and wont let us play our maps with other people. But atleast we'd be able to create them freely. :|
 
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You could introduce gameplay mechanics as well as relative scaling that allow you to get the effect of having a massively huge map while not requiring a giant amount of space.

That's what I'm gonna try to do. I've already shrunk all the models, I'll just need to find a way to zoom in the camera, so it doesn't look like you're playing with ants. Still, was far easier to just crank up the size of the map. It also made it feel MASSIVE. On WC3 I made a version of the map I'm making now, 400x400 size, yet I shrunk all units to about 1/4 their normal size, as well as zoomed in the camera. God it took like 5 minutes to cross from one side to the other. I put entire star systems in it (sun, orbiting planets, the works) and there was STILL a massive void between systems. It really made FTL travel essential. No matter how much I shrink units on here, I wont get that same effect, and it saddens me.
 

Dr Super Good

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You will, you just need to shrink it down even more. Terrain is at like 8-16 times the resolution as WC3 and if you are doing a space map you use a star filled background rather than any actual terrain (hide it all) so that it is a scaleable vector with no finite resolution.

If cameras pan too fast, lower pan speed etc. There is no real excuse now to need a 400*400 sized map for a space game.
 
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That's what I'm gonna try to do. I've already shrunk all the models, I'll just need to find a way to zoom in the camera, so it doesn't look like you're playing with ants. Still, was far easier to just crank up the size of the map. It also made it feel MASSIVE. On WC3 I made a version of the map I'm making now, 400x400 size, yet I shrunk all units to about 1/4 their normal size, as well as zoomed in the camera. God it took like 5 minutes to cross from one side to the other. I put entire star systems in it (sun, orbiting planets, the works) and there was STILL a massive void between systems. It really made FTL travel essential. No matter how much I shrink units on here, I wont get that same effect, and it saddens me.
Actually you could apply an arbitrary move speed decrease while units are moving between solar systems or something. (obviously, this would be more difficult if you wanted to have combat in the void, but meh).
 
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The problem is, it's not -JUST- a space game. It has both land and space, so while shrinking everything to the size of microbes might work in the space part, I don't think it'd hold over too well on the land part.

I'm fairly new to mapping, so maybe there's a way to make the camera zoom out to acceptable levels when on the planets surface, and then zoom in when in space. If you can emulate the vastness via camera manipulation and scaled models, then awesome, I'll just have to find someone who can do that for me eventually XD
 

Dr Super Good

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Oh, there is a cool thing you can do with the camera. Because what you see is not parrallel (if it was you would see virtually nothing) the game allows you to adjust what would appear to the user as "the curvature of the lens" if you refer to it in camera termonolgy. If set to near 90 degrees it makes everything appear tiny and distored due to the vastness of the angle of view you get but if set to smaller than normal values it will make everything seem bigger (because you see less angle of picture).

This might help you make your map seem larger than it actually is, a key part to giving something a vastness feel.
 
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Well I shy away from the complexities of the editor, so I haven't even looked at camera controls. I'll prolly just finish up the foundation and try to find some experienced mapper to help with the complex stuff, but atleast now I know it's possible to get that same vast feeling. That was what I was most proud of in my WC3 version, just this vast space, with like two dozen star systems and a dozen usable planetary surfaces. I want that again D:
 
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#1 @ colt556 tell me where i can get this epic map you speak of :)

#2 eventually somebody will probalbly manage to hack a third party editor, just might take some time like starcraft and warcraft did. and i hope for a 2000x2000 epic space map with 60 players for starcraft 3 one day... alas it may not happen but a man can dream...
 

Dr Super Good

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and i hope for a 2000x2000 epic space map with 60 players for starcraft 3 one day... alas it may not happen but a man can dream...

You would have to recompile SC2 as 64 bit and lay out more fiberoptic connections which are both impossible as a user. I am afraid that the game is 32 bit compiled (hopefully an expansion will include a 64 bit compilation with some additional optimizations) and as such is limited to only 4 GB of virtual memory address space. A 2048*2048 map with 60 players will well exceed that address space and as such crash for everyone. Let us not forget that 60 players will mean that some server will be having to send out 3600 player order instructions per update (each player will send 1 and receive 60) which most people can not handle playing with and such servers which can are expensive and would not be for free.

A custom editor is also far fetched and impossible unless blizzard grants us source code or tools for publishing maps outside of their editor. Yes making one is easy (well physically not but still is doable with enough time are understanding) but the maps will be unplayable online due to the inability to publish them.
 
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aye, what you say be true. but by the time Starcraft 3 even gets convieved we may have the technology to do as such, im just saying what i hope for :p an entirely very realistic space map with as many factions as their are planets haha i ask for to much. and i should probalbly just play sins again but even thats not realistic enoguh for me :mad: hehe.

and yea we might not see one unless we see widespread use of a cracked sc2
 
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lol, the camera zoom idea worked wonderfully. According to a friend's math, my map's scale is around 1000x1000 now. We zoomed the camera in to about 7.6, and scaled everything down accordingly. Works quite well. It still doesn't seem as expansive as my WC3 version, but oh well. I could only imagine what it'd be like if I had a 400x400 map AND did the zoom-in trick, I'd have that 2000x2000 map mentioned above XD
 
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what is this epic map??? please tell... and tell me about thsi starcraft version as well... :p

(sorry ive been looking for a major space map for a looong time...)
 
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Oh, you wont find my WC3 version, I never finished it. I can't do triggers, and couldn't ever find someone to do them for me. So it just faded into the void. My SC2 version is just that, a version for SC2. It's large scale Halo map, set in the Halo universe. It basically follows the course of the entire war (all 27 years) from the perspective of the factions themselves. It's a conquest game, you build armies, conquer your enemies, with events that take place from the timeline. It even forces you to initiate ground combat (a fact I'm quite proud of, too often in space maps is it JUST space). It'll have 7 players, 3 UNSC, 3 Covenant, and 1 Flood. So yeah. If you like large-scale space games, you should like mine. Unfortunately you'll never get to play it, since it'll forever be at the bottom of the popularity system XD.
 
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dr super good, you might want to work on your knowledge of the english language you fuckin asshole. god damn illiterate cunt. and prolly a virgin too.
 
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