Weapon types with different effects

[CloudWolf]

Whil'st going through my monotonous daily routine of adding items to the map, I had a bit of an idea

Basically, I was thinking we could put all the weapons into classes. Each weapon class could then provide different kind of stats, just to increase the customisation of characters For example:

- Axe's could increase attack speed, but do less damage
- Swords could just do moderate damage, without affecting attack speed
- Hammers could do huge damage, but decrease attack speed

If I made 3 weapon classes per hero class, I reckon it would add a tiny bit more diversity between each player

what do you guys reckon?

 

[dansaDisco]

Great.

Although I don't see axes as a fast weapon, I'd make the swords give +ias ^^

 

[CloudWolf]

Great.

Although I don't see axes as a fast weapon, I'd make the swords give +ias ^^

aaah oki Well, its all subject to change anyways Im happy to make them however people want

 

[Xezko]

i agree with DD, the axe isnt a speed weapon :S
it would be cool if you put that.

PS.: da other day hav a dream, a xtrange one.
Dont ask me why i hav thats dream but:
Its posibble to modify the MPQ File, importin all the custom models and skin and say to the people than need to download the new MPQ file to play the map.
This will do that we be able to add unlimited custom models and skin, keeping the map file down that damned 4 mb.
Hope this can be possible, but its an idea ^^

 

[dansaDisco]

Xezko, that would not really work out, because then people would want 2 folders with warcraft 3, unless they wanted non-teamcolored ghouls and other stuff when playing dota xD

Because modifying the MPQ changes the whole wc3 game

 

[CloudWolf]

i agree with DD, the axe isnt a speed weapon :S
it would be cool if you put that.

PS.: da other day hav a dream, a xtrange one.
Dont ask me why i hav thats dream but:
Its posibble to modify the MPQ File, importin all the custom models and skin and say to the people than need to download the new MPQ file to play the map.
This will do that we be able to add unlimited custom models and skin, keeping the map file down that damned 4 mb.
Hope this can be possible, but its an idea ^^

Haha Im all for dream ideas I kinda had the brainwave of making this map while being half asleep lol

The only problem with changing the MPQ is that the changes will affect every warcraft 3 map people play Not to mention, most bnet players wont have downloaded it :S

We do have quite a lot of room though I recently optimized some of the imported skins to make some more room. For example, the ghoul skin used to be 120kb, ive reduced the quality to 60% and now its only 37kb A huge decrease and the change in quality hardly shows in game

If I do similar changes to all the models and textures youde be suprised how many we can fit in

nice idea though, I would never have thought of it

 

[Xezko]

This can be done with a custom model of the ghoul, only changin the skin.
(Its simple, and i know how to do it.)
And the are two ghouls, one normal, and one for D3!

 

[dansaDisco]

Haha, I was just gonna ask you if you wanted to optimized version of my ghoul skin that was about 45kb cloud ^^

This can be done with a custom model of the ghoul, only changin the skin.
(Its simple, and i know how to do it.)
And the are two ghouls, one normal, and one for D3!

This is true, but that would make the MPQ file HUGE, and we would probably make some sort of copyright infringement by distributing the whole WC3 MPQ, even if it was modified..

 

[CloudWolf]

Haha, I was just gonna ask you if you wanted to optimized version of my ghoul skin that was about 45kb cloud ^^

lol yea dont worry about it! I already optimised it before importing it

 

[Xezko]

When, about Bnet, there are 2 things:
- Do it in WarSoc.
- Or put a Password in any game that be on the .Zip (this zip would containin the .MPQ) and everypalyer that want to play must download the MPQ that has the password and has an txt showin how to install it!

 

[CloudWolf]

When, about Bnet, there are 2 things:
- Do it in WarSoc.
- Or put a Password in any game that be on the .Zip (this zip would containin the .MPQ) and everypalyer that want to play must download the MPQ that has the password and has an txt showin how to install it!

I just think its too much effort for a player to download all that extra stuff :S The final release of this version is going to be played on bnet, and will not support Warsoc.

To make it easier for me, ive decided to keep the current map to 2 weapon classes per hero class for v1.18 Means I can release it quicker xD I'll introduce more item classes when I start the second map

 

[Xezko]

Good Idea!
But, i really hope when you finish this map you start a campaing. This great map need a more detailed campaing showing his potential!

 

[CloudWolf]

Good Idea!
But, i really hope when you finish this map you start a campaing. This great map need a more detailed campaing showing his potential!

The problem I have is that I want this map to be 100% multiplayer orientated A campaign would limit us in that department :S

Another reason for not making it a campaign is because thats exactly what the guys over at wc3c.net are doing, and I dont want them to think I'm copying them lol

Once the map is finished though, we might decide to make a single player version with some extra features (due to the unlimited file space)

If not, im sure someone will make a mod for single player lol

 

[Xezko]

well, isnt necessary to a single player mod.
Can be a LAN multiplayer one!

 

[Phalanx]

Suggestion of weapons:
Spears - slow, small range
Bow - low damage, long range
Crossbow - slow, long range
Javelin - change melee (low damage) to range (high damage, limited amount, long range)
Staff - low damage, slow

I believe thats all of them

 

[Reaper2008]

Also add other realism effects, such as armor slowing down units and shield slowing both move and atk speed (a little though, about 2-4 %)

 

[redmarine]

well, isnt necessary to a single player mod.
Can be a LAN multiplayer one!

Just wanted to inform you that LAN multiplayer restricts you from playing maps that aren't battle.net compatible - too big filesize.

Basically maps bigger than 4.1MB are not playable multiplayer.

 

[Xezko]

Thats really??!!
Damn Blizzard and your stupid restrictions... ¬.¬

 

[redmarine]

Thats really??!!
Damn Blizzard and your stupid restrictions... ¬.¬

How could they expect the custom maps to actually exeed the mark 5-6 years ago? Not to mention that they updated the Editor with patches in the first couple of years.

I don't actually care because they're going to release StarCraft II soon enough with Battle.net 2.0 powered by lots of WoW servers.

 

[Xezko]

Well i think they must change that limit to almost 10 mb. With the powerfuled internet conexxions of our days, i dont think that this will be a problem. But, who know? maybe im wrong.
On TOPIC:
i think that the Reaper2008 idea is good enough, but i dont think that is good for this style of map.

 

[CloudMax]

Bahh.
i think it should be more randomized depending on the size of the weapon.
Like if you have huge two handed axe it is REALLY SLOW. If its a one handed in medium size, it should be a normal attack speed. And if it is a small one handed axe it should be a fast.

And so on.

 

[Xezko]

mm... i dont know.. that will be too WoW-like... maybe...

 

[dansaDisco]

mm... i dont know.. that will be too WoW-like... maybe...

Remember that a lot of the stuff that people consider to be "WoW-like" nowadays usually comes from older games, such as diablo II

 

[redmarine]

Remember that a lot of the stuff that people consider to be "WoW-like" nowadays usually comes from older games, such as diablo II

It's true. The talent tree was inspired by the skill tree from Diablo 2.

 

[CloudMax]

The sizes of the weapons should be what makes the biggest differences, not the kind of weapons. Like, a big axe and a small axe should not have the same speed. The big one should be slower but stronger. And such things like i said before.

 

[Xezko]

dont treat me as if i never played Diablo. I finish Diablo I, Hellfire, II & LoD. I'm just a big fan of this game (that is the best of all, in my opinion). I now that Blizzard stolen things among their projects. (come on! the draeneis are too similar to the protoss... xD)
ON TOPIC: remember the material of a weapon. only if you want to make realistic. Not the same a wooden stick that a metal spear.

 

[CloudMax]

Im also a big fan of Diablo. Thats why im in this project.
I played diablo II for about 3-4 years and i reached level 96, then i quited becouse i just lended the game from my dads bro. I was an ice sorc

 

[Xezko]

im was a frenzy barbarian! (Atila_el_Huno - lv 89)
... also i had a tessladin (Rayitoloco - lv 76) and a shapeshifting druid. (ladro_y_muerdo - lv 48)
but that was years ago (in v1.9)... Im get banned without reason... and i cry... too much that day... T-T
Now, i play in a private (and free) server in my country, and i has a berseker barbarian with IK! i has IK!!!! =D

------

backin on topic, i dont know thats of the weapons, coz, to be based on the size, then you will need to add attachments to the map, and it will more size... (this reaches the damnes 4.1 mbs!)

 

[dansaDisco]

Don't worry. We'll handle the attachments, but the witch doctor model shouldn't have any weapon anyway.

 

[CloudWolf]

im was a frenzy barbarian! (Atila_el_Huno - lv 89)
... also i had a tessladin (Rayitoloco - lv 76) and a shapeshifting druid. (ladro_y_muerdo - lv 48)
but that was years ago (in v1.9)... Im get banned without reason... and i cry... too much that day... T-T
Now, i play in a private (and free) server in my country, and i has a berseker barbarian with IK! i has IK!!!! =D

------

backin on topic, i dont know thats of the weapons, coz, to be based on the size, then you will need to add attachments to the map, and it will more size... (this reaches the damnes 4.1 mbs!)

Ive been doing some major optimizing and ive managed to get the filesize down to 3.45mb I could probably save us some more if we need it

 

[Xezko]

thats cool! but try to dont get down the quality of the game.

 

[redmarine]

thats cool! but try to dont get down the quality of the game.

He's just reducing the filesize of the textures without making any noticeable quality changes.

 

[CloudWolf]

thats cool! but try to dont get down the quality of the game.

aye as Redmarine said, the reduction in quality doesnt show at all in game

There were a lot of textures that were saved at 100% quality making them around 180kb :S By reducing it to 60% quality they're more like 50kb now This basically allows us to use more imports lol

 

[Phalanx]

How about every weapon have their own unique critical like a sword will deal more damage, a mace will stun, a wand will mana drain, an axe will cleave.

Are there shields?

 

[CloudMax]

How about every weapon have their own unique critical like a sword will deal more damage, a mace will stun, a wand will mana drain, an axe will cleave.

Are there shields?

I dont like that idea.
Example.
Mana drain is already a real spell and we shouldent make items with it.
Adding stun chance to items would destory the need of barbarian stuns.
And adding cleaver would remove the need of barbarians cleave spell.

I suggest to just make all items custom.
And make all items different to make it more exciting and fun. That way you would have to search around alot to get the best items

 

[67chrome]

In my current project I'm doing something similar with weapons, only I divided it into 6 tiers:

1 - very fast weapons: daggers, knives, katars
2 - fast weapons: short sword,
3 - moderatly fast weapons: Mace, handaxe, long sword, club,
4 - moderatly slow weapons: great sword, great axe, morningstar, spear, wand
5 - slow weapons: shortbow, magic staff, javelin, demon sword, halberd
6 - very slow weapons: longbow, crossbow, rifle

basically they are all balanced to have the same dps-making every weapon worth considering. I just scaled the attack speed and damage bonus to make it work out. Besides, the spells and abilities are what determines a class's true dps so no heavy emphasis must be placed on creating unrealistic weapon damage bonuses.
And as far as weapon attachments go, most of those files are around the same size as icons, and you don't need to import a disabled version.

But what you should defiantly do with the weapons, at least for the wizard and witch doctor, is give them a missile art changing ability (orb of etc.) so each weapon will change and customize the heroe's missile art

 

[CloudMax]

Even if slow weapon and a fast weapon has the same DPS, it can get imbalanced.
Example: You use a fast weapon and have a spell that gives your attack 10 bonus damage, now think for a second.
"Damn, having that 10 damage bonus on a fast weapon insted of a slow one would be like x10 times better!"

There is much more to think of then just DPS. :}
And currently it seems like CloudWolf havent impletented a system like this yet becouse all the items is kinda the same.

 

[67chrome]

Yes, and if you have the same % chance to critical and criticals cause stuns it is also imbalanced, but as far as balancing goes it is just a numbers game, if something is imbalanced you nerf it with the chance it can happen, its duration, the damage it causes, etc. If you have any abilities that increase damage by a set amount you could intentionally reduce the damage bonus from faster weapons to compensate. If stun-locking would be a problem you can decrease the chance a fast weapon can critically hit. It all comes down to weather or not you are willing to put the work into implementing the system.

As far as chance on hit abilities go, such as stuns, they will never replace the need for spells that have the same effect, especially if they happen randomly. In most cases it will be cast in the most useless and trivial point in the game, rather than a spot that will cause serious imbalances. If every class is capable of wielding weapons with stun effects you could always have bosses targeted as heroes, and set the chance to stun them to 0, or drastically reduce the stun duration they would suffer.

If you use the orb of slow/orb of lightning abilities to add weapon attachments and modify projectile art, you can also set them to have a % chance to cast an ability (it only works with instant-cast abilities that have a target). The ability cannot be cast more frequently than it's cooldown time, and should be set to have a mana cost of 0 as it will require mana to be cast. It's pretty fun to mess around with anyways

 

[Edhel-dur]

Whil'st going through my monotonous daily routine of adding items to the map, I had a bit of an idea

Basically, I was thinking we could put all the weapons into classes. Each weapon class could then provide different kind of stats, just to increase the customisation of characters For example:

- Axe's could increase attack speed, but do less damage
- Swords could just do moderate damage, without affecting attack speed
- Hammers could do huge damage, but decrease attack speed

If I made 3 weapon classes per hero class, I reckon it would add a tiny bit more diversity between each player

what do you guys reckon?

I don't know if it has been said but. . .thing is if ratio of Barbarian ability dmg and enemy mob / boss remains the same. . .everyone would want an Axe. . .the faster the wep, the more rage you get.From my own experience (and i played 1.17 quite a lot) abilities are the best way of doing dmg than using normal hits. Cleave isn't really a good ability.
So I think it would be nice mby if abilities could scale with agility for a barbarian. Agility could give no bonus IAS or Armor. A Hammer would give high dmg and high agility thus increasing the dmg of an ability although it will cast it less often, while an Axe would give less agility, thus the dmg of the ability itself would be smaller however you can cast the spell more often.
That I believe would be a huger and maybe better impact on the entire game reguarding the difference of different weapons.