Warcraft: A New Dawn

[Vosty]

Since TWIF's ISP is down for about another week, I'll say it for him:
STFU!
Wow lore, sucks. Just completely ignore it.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Vosty, you are so fucking awesome.

Stat, STFU. wow lore sucks.

 

[Linaze]

Vosty, you are so fucking awesome.

Stat, STFU. wow lore sucks.

How exactly does the lore "suck"?
I mean, compared to War3 which had a simple and predictable story, the story of WoW actually has twists, more depth and is expressed in a better way. Just take the beloved Scarlet Crusade, it comes from WoW and not War3.

 

[Turminator8]

we're talking about the main story line here Linaze. WoW story line was made to fit an MMORPG. All the main characters were killed off by 25-40 no-bodies. Also, the scarlet crusade was some little side plot made just so Blizzard could add some instances into WoW, it really didn't affect the overall main story line.

Yes, I agree that the Scarlet crusade is a good story, but the whole outlook on the Warcraft story, as a whole, is rather poor based on WoW Lore.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Hey guys, sorry I've been so long inactive, damn exams and such, but am I fired or can I start working on that Night-Elf lore?

Seeing as everyone else seemed to ignore you... I'll say yes, sure that would be fantastic
Have you signed up at WorldCraft yet? Links in my sig, I would request your presence and activity if your willing =)

 

[Linaze]

we're talking about the main story line here Linaze. WoW story line was made to fit an MMORPG. All the main characters were killed off by 25-40 no-bodies. Also, the scarlet crusade was some little side plot made just so Blizzard could add some instances into WoW, it really didn't affect the overall main story line.

Yes, I agree that the Scarlet crusade is a good story, but the whole outlook on the Warcraft story, as a whole, is rather poor based on WoW Lore.

Main characters, such as, say, Illidan? As far as I know, he was killed by 25 "randoms", Akama and Maiev, what more do you want, a battalion of soldiers and another five named characters?
And what you said about the Scarlet Crusade is simply incorrect. First of all, they are no "little side plot". Furthermore, they did affect the lore, just look at the Ashbringer and the entire story of Tirion.

 

[Turminator8]

all Im saying is that WoW Lore was made to fit an MMORPG game.. NOT and RTS strategy game. There was not enough lore and story to the fall of Illidan.. since they decided to kill him off... ok I kinda exaggerated on the Scarlet Crusade, but my point is that WoW Lore was made for a MMORPG period... this is an RTS game.

For example... Undead Forsaken join up with Orcs and Tauren
??? wtf

"draenei" come from outer space and join in with the Alliance WHICH were on the downfall at the end of Wc3 and now they've magically come back??? what?

This is what I'm talknig about...

Now, I'm not opposed to trying to use some of the concepts (like the Scarlet Crusade, if you will) and creating a more fitting story line from that, but using WoW Lore in Wc4?? No, I dont think so..

Edit: Also, one of the reasons why we're so strong and definitive on not using WoW Lore is because 99% of teh team doesn't liek it, and most of our community feedback has been against it.

If you disagree and think otherwise please post at http://worldcraft.hordestudio.com/social/index.php, our forums. Thank you for your interest and I do look forward to more input like this in the future. We are still open to ideas and we WILL take this into consideration, but I do want you to understand where we are coming from here.

 

[Linaze]

Yes, I understand and respect your decision. I just hate it when people say WoW lore/story sucks without any valid arguments to back it up. Anyways, we're enough off-topic as it is and I've said everything I wanted to. Good luck with your project.

 

[Triceron]

WoW lore has many many inconsistencies with it, many of which were made in order to make the gameplay work.

Night Elf society is matriarchal, with females being the priestesses and warriors while the males are all druidic. Night Elves are also supposed to be the only race to have druids; even Metzen wanted this class to stay exclusive; but it simply wouldn't have worked out for class balance. Gender exclusivity is something that wouldn't have worked out well for the popularity of the class.

Paladins and Shamans; Drenai and Blood Elves are also gameplay-oriented design decisions. Blood Elves joining the Horde makes little sense when there are so many other races that could join the Horde. The reason was because Horde lacked a 'fair' race that girls and women could play.

There's just a lot of little things that are sacrificed in order to make the gameplay work in WoW. There's just a lot more freedom with Warcraft 3 than using WoW's Lore, which was tailored specifically for MMO.

 

[Fussiler1]

all Im saying is that WoW Lore was made to fit an MMORPG game.. NOT and RTS strategy game. There was not enough lore and story to the fall of Illidan.. since they decided to kill him off... ok I kinda exaggerated on the Scarlet Crusade, but my point is that WoW Lore was made for a MMORPG period... this is an RTS game.

True.

For example... Undead Forsaken join up with Orcs and Tauren
??? wtf

Not this again.. think of the strategic use of having the Forsaken joining up with the Horde.

"draenei" come from outer space and join in with the Alliance WHICH were on the downfall at the end of Wc3 and now they've magically come back??? what?

A common enemy unites I suppose, the Scourge.

Edit: Also, one of the reasons why we're so strong and definitive on not using WoW Lore is because 99% of teh team doesn't liek it, and most of our community feedback has been against it.

Mhm, understandable.

 

[Turminator8]

Not this again.. think of the strategic use of having the Forsaken joining up with the Horde.

But they wouldn't... the foresaken despise the living and the horde wouldn't group with abominations like the undead.

A common enemy unites I suppose, the Scourge.

idk seems far fetched to me.

 

[Fussiler1]

But they wouldn't... the foresaken despise the living and the horde wouldn't group with abominations like the undead.

Abominations that were part of the Scourge, and by that, possibly know quite much about it, they could prove valuable allies?

 

[Turminator8]

Heh I just can't seeing the honorable orcs siding with the Foresaken... it just doesn't make a lot of sense... unless u really go into WOW lore and read all that crap..

 

[Statharas]

we're talking about the main story line here Linaze. WoW story line was made to fit an MMORPG. All the main characters were killed off by 25-40 no-bodies. Also, the scarlet crusade was some little side plot made just so Blizzard could add some instances into WoW, it really didn't affect the overall main story line.

Yes, I agree that the Scarlet crusade is a good story, but the whole outlook on the Warcraft story, as a whole, is rather poor based on WoW Lore.

*cough* lemme get my WOTLK expansion set.
Can't find it.


Anyway, it has a small leaflet that contains stuff like... Illidan was defeated in the black temple by the combined forces of the Warden, Maeiv, and the Draenai Rebel Akama. Kael was defeated in the tempest keep by the forces of the sunreavers, and retreated in the isle of quel danas. That's what i remember at least. Let's say that Naxxramas was moved to Dragonblight, It was assaulted by Dalaran's mages, and the combined forces of the Alliance and the Horde.

We can cover up prety much everything, and USE the lore as well.
Maybe include characters from WoW as well. Like... Garrosh Hellscream.

 

[Fussiler1]

We can cover up prety much everything, and USE the lore as well.
Maybe include characters from WoW as well. Like... Garrosh Hellscream.

You could've used sooo many other WoW characters.. yet.. you picked Garrosh Hellscream..

 

[Statharas]

My point is, that we can use those characters, and throw out some stuff not fitting with the Wc3 lore, and keep the rest. Everything would be really easy to do.

After Illidan's assasination in the Dark Temple, the Legion could establish their own foothold on Outland once again, and raid Azeroth.

I mean, we can work it out prety well. Just take out stuff that wouldn't fit the RTS gameplay.

 

[Deolrin]

What the hell guys. WoW lore is awesome at some points. It doesn't just "sucks".
The Forsaken did not "ally" with the Horde, they're USING it, and the first signs of THAT are Putress' and Varmiatrhas' betrayal.
The Blood Elves joined the Horde because of necessity. The Alliance FAILED the Blood Elves, and they needed help. Don't you remember the whole Garithos plot? Not to mention that their prince, Kael'thas, became evil and shit so they couldn't hold alone.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Ehem, we might take one or two concepts that really fit with wc3 lore (and wc3 may have been heading there anyway) but as i said, we are not going to use wow lore, essentially at all. and i again, have no plans to include it. this game is intended for c3 fans who never played, or disliked wow, (or even liked it, but prefer war3's storyline.)

I have no plans to include wow lore, and as far as i am concered the discussion is closed.

(also, akama joining maeiv and killing illidan is hohwash imo, and ELUNE being a Naaru is to. infact, Naaru is total... $%^@ imo.)

So, to wrap it up.
Bottom line:

THIS PROJECT, will completely ignore wow lore. If, in the future, it is widely decidedby the majority of the team and community that we should embrave wow lore, i MIGHT CONSIDER IT. but for now, wow lore will be ignored, especially because it was intended for an MMORPG, and NOT and rts, and also beacuse blizzard themselves said that the accual warcrat 4 will IGNORE WOW LORE aswell.

Thats is, apologise for my poor grammar atm.
No. WoW. Lore.
thats all i have to say.

Lets move on to discussing somthing else.


EDIT - Debode, i disagree.
1. the horde is on the other side of THE WORLD.
2. the blood elves would not ally the horde, beacuse there is no reason too, also, werent the blood elves last in outland?

anyway, i just dislike the lore, and it seems like it wasnt designed to fit in with an rts or anything other than a mmorpg.
thats how i feel, and because of that, and the feelings of 90% of my team, we are gonig to ignore wow lore.

 

[Sgt. Johnson]

2. the blood elves would not ally the horde, beacuse there is no reason too, also, werent the blood elves last in outland?

Draenei were being hunted down by Kael's BE's in Outland and escaped in one of their "spaceships" and were pursued by the BE's, the draenei eventually crashed into an island off the shore of ashenvale and I'm not sure if the BE crashed as well. The Draenei were brought into the alliance, the Forsaken then vouched for the BE's as Sylvannus was a high elf before Arthas killed her and they were brought into the horde. That's pretty much how that went down, eventually the BE's in Silvermoon find out Kael's mad after he attacks Silvermoon and pledge themselves to the Horde and A'dal.

 

[CyberDuelX16]

O-o. We really need to store all of this lore somewhere

 

[Tharkas]

We'll surely add a few high elves to the alliance remmnants and the Theramorian City-State, but since most of them were arrested, imprisoned and then rescued by Kael'Thas and Lady Vashj and transported to the Outlands, they'll be just a few. In the Sunwell Trilogy comics (wich are based on actual WC lore and not wow's) it's shown that there're just a few high elves left after Sylvannas' liberation from Arthas' grip. Through Sylvannas still feel some sympathy for the living elves, her loyalty is now with the dead ones, and that'll not change.
Still, we'll keep Sylvannas as WC4's "Kerrigan", manipulating her enemies and changing allies constantly, as she did in WC3 TFT.

 

[Triceron]

Just a heads up, an MDX export script is now available for the latest 3ds Max, and it supports animation. It works with NiNtoxicated01's .m3 export scripts. You can import War3 models straight into SC2 now with these tools, either for use as placeholders or whatnot.

 

[Taylor Mouse]

You mean it support animation for the .m3 format ????

The url plzzzzzz

T.

 

[Triceron]

You guys are behind on the tech. Animation support has been out for about a month now

Go to SC2Mapster.com and grab the .m3 importer/exporter script, then go get the .mdx script, now!

 

[Vosty]

^^
For now, I guess the wc3 models could be used as placeholders, but I seriously don't hope all of your models are wc3 ones. Most of them suck compared to sc2's new ones, with normal maps and such.

 

[Turminator8]

I have a feeling the Wc3 ones will be just place holders to allow us to progress. I agree that the sc2 ones, and especially Taylor's models, are far better.

 

[Vosty]

I have a feeling the Wc3 ones will be just place holders to allow us to progress. I agree that the sc2 ones, and especially Taylor's models, are far better.

Good idea, so that way you can actually make some progress with stuff without waiting for models.

 

[Statharas]

I have a feeling the Wc3 ones will be just place holders to allow us to progress. I agree that the sc2 ones, and especially Taylor's models, are far better.

Well, we will start by using the Wc3 models, and replace them with each model Taylor makes.

Plus, YEY! Taylor is back! Get on MSN

 

[Taylor Mouse]

Some progress ( finally )

T.

 

[Statharas]

Her face is too..flat.

 

[Tharkas]

She looks too... masculine.
I don't know I'd need to see a full-body screenshot.

 

[Statharas]

Carve her boobs a lil more, make her more smexy.

 

[M0rbid]

I just want to tell that I'll be nearly inactive for one and a half month now, since I'm busy with exams. But after that I'lll use my vacations to hopefully come up with some really finished concepts!

 

[Erader]

Her right boob is allot bigger then the left

 

[Statharas]

Wait. When does your vacation start at?

 

[M0rbid]

Wait. When does your vacation start at?

My vacation will start at 22th of July, since I'm writing my last exam on 21th. But I'll be on holidayys for two weeks then and will only be able to work on concepts, not to go online and post stuff in this time!

 

[Alfagar]

Omg, the story is awesome so far

 

[Grey Nightmare]

@Taylor smashing work, good job =)

@Stathisdjs - Remember you'll see it from an RTS cam point of view

@Morbid - That sucks :/ Just as everyone else finishes D:

Oh well, we shall await your return good luck with your exams and have a nice vacation!

@Cyber - Are you coming or going?

@Death_Minion Thankyou It's always great to see appreciation, very motivating! xD

 

[The World Is Flat]

Cyber, get online and active or i'll rip your face off.

Taylor, shes sexy, but the face is too sqaure jawed, thin her out a bit.


everyone, now is when your all needed most on the team, this is the make or break for us, lets all get hopping and hope things go for the best!

 

[real138]

guys unfortunately i am without a wc3 comp. since my screen broke a few days ago... Idk when it will be fixed because my parents aren't too willing to pay 150 euro for repairs so im probably gonna have to wait a month to get a new comp... ill see what i can do.

 

[CyberDuelX16]

Cyber, get online and active or i'll rip your face off.

My face is already off, I have been online. Where have YOU been?

guys unfortunately i am without a wc3 comp. since my screen broke a few days ago.

Same here, except i first got a blue screen of death and now my comp won't even start. At least my laptop is still working.

 

[Statharas]

guys unfortunately i am without a wc3 comp. since my screen broke a few days ago... Idk when it will be fixed because my parents aren't too willing to pay 150 euro for repairs so im probably gonna have to wait a month to get a new comp... ill see what i can do.

I might be able to help you real, what's the problem with it?

 

[Rui]

Holy mother of... SotHM. The last pages of this thread were full of spam. Stop discussing your MSN encounters here. Taylor, add that blog thing to your signature and don't double-post please. CyberDuel, I've never seen anyone post so many useless messages.
I've only cleaned the last third of the thread. Please do not submit unnecessary or noncontributory posts from hereon.
~Thread cleaned

 

[Fussiler1]

Rui is right, time to get serious for this project again. Almost done with my assigment, by the way.

 

[Rui]

I've been doing some extra cleaning but have not finished. This thread is gigantic. My record was a 45-page thread with 20 posts/page, this one had nearly 75 before yesterday's cleanup.

Anyway, I'm glad you dropped the idea of choosing subraces. Not only was it complex, but, most importantly, it was a very bad concept for a strategy game. I'm already in despair thinking how you're going to balance 6 races, let alone having to balance subraces.
This «subrace» concept is one of the reasons LotR: The Battle for Middle Earth II modifications are so bad. Dozens of good models, but the gameplay is so left behind that it's not fun even if you can play solely Rivendell, Mirkwood, or whatever.
I'm saying this just in case this idea pops back. You might point out that they are two different games, but I'm telling you, it won't work. It creates a too large diversification of strategies, all of which have to be balanced. Plus, balance is, sometimes, subjective, which makes it even harder.

 

[The World Is Flat]

It wont be returning.
Thank you for your assistance and input RUI, you've been very helpful.

More race tree updates soon.

 

[Rui]

Wait a moment... I really wouldn't recommend giving heroes more than 4 abilities. For the same reason it's bad having subraces: too many things at stake.
On that point, I wish to complement what I wrote on my previous post: having many subraces (or abilities) will create a too vast amount of strategies assuming you diversify them from each other.
I really don't think you'll be able to diversify 11 abilities per hero. Even if you have three heroes per race, it's still 33 abilities in just one race, not counting with the spellcasters. Multiply that by the number of available races, and I'm sure the picture and my point get across.

EDIT: ffs this server... I can't post anything without my post being cloned.
Anyway, I just wanted to say I approved a few linkbacks to this thread. However, there's this game-damachi.com whose language is oriental, so I'm not sure whether it's safe to approve it or not.

 

[The World Is Flat]

We've temporarily removed heroes altogether.
we are looking for either replacments or keeping it this way.

I dont know who linked us to a oriental site. maybe cyberduel.

 

[Statharas]

Well, we ARE gonna be using heroes for special scenarios.. Without Exp..

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Special Scenarios? I don't recall ever discussing such a thing, are you sure your a member of our team?

No, last we decided we were having 'sub' heroes in melee, like the captain unit in the human campaign, stronger melee units with auras and one or two active abilities - the point being that they help an army but aren't overpowered or particularly useful on their own.

I think TWIF wants heroes in the Campaigns though, purely for story purposes, it'll probably follow something similar - think AOE heroes? He'll have to clarify that, I'm not 100% sure...