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[Melee] Warcraft 3: Ability Draft

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by bhusta, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Xonok

    Xonok

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    Just give the ability with the usual UnitAddAbility native. If this makes the ability start out learned, then set its level lower or something. I'm quite sure hero abilities can be added, as it has been done in maps such as Custom Castle Defense.

    About the altars, make a few generic types like you have now. Then make all heroes trainable at every altar and Disable the invalid ones when you have randomed the heroes for each player.
     
  2. bhusta

    bhusta

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    I guess the thing with the altar can be done easily for the next update.
    I tried it that way, but it did not work.
    What I have tried before was giving every hero every hero ability as normal ability and disabled them with
    SetPlayerAbilityAvailable(whichPlayer, abilid, avail)
    After the pick phase I enabled the abilities which were picked.
    This worked fine but I had to give every hero their own ability set because the abilities would be enabled for all heroes of that player.
    So, I had ca. 3000 objects and the map needed about 3-4 minutes to load.
    Unfortunately the Widgetizer couldn't handle it anymore so there is no optimization possible at the moment. And there was another problem.
    A lot of abilities work while they are disabled like Black Arrow or Spiked Carapace.
    To solve this I added a fourth level which nulled all effects.
    The problem with that was that the levels of the disabled abilities won't be taken if the hero uses a morph ability as Chemical Rage or Metamorphosis and Mirror Images as well.

    If there is a way to add skillable hero abilities via Trigger and these abilities won't be removed if the hero morphs, then I will definitely do it.
     
  3. Xonok

    Xonok

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    Other possibilities:
    Engineering upgrade - using this to replace dummy abilities with real ones
    Hidden spellbooks with hero abilities.


    Okay, I looked at the ability guide. In there is this method: Use engineering upgrade with a nonexistent base ability(the one that's supposed to be there before getting EU). Add and remove the engineering upgrade and it will use the fields of the previous ability(including level being 0) on the new one and will be learnable.
     
  4. bhusta

    bhusta

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    Sounds like a good plan. I will do that for version 0.3. If that works it's like a belated christmas present :D
    Nevertheless, here is version 0.2.


    Update Version 0.2

    (2)Melting Valley by Blizzard

    (4)Renegade City by Filmting

    (4)Twisted Meadows by Blizzard

    (12)Ice Crown by Blizzard (only 4 non-AI players possible)


    Changelog 0.2
    • the explanation texttags at the beginning of the game are changed
    • tooltip improvements
    • name texttags for the pick heroes
    • added visual highlights if one got a picked or random ability
    • actual random pick
    • preparations for 12 player maps

    @sonofjay, I couldn't add any of your maps yet and I can't do (2)Rocky Land at all
    because somehow the center of the map is somehow outside the map.
    I guess you modified the map bounds and your shift the map only in one direction.
    But I already started with "In the End" and it will come with the update 0.3.

    @Daffa the Mage, Ice Crown is attached :)
    (But still only 4 non-AI Players possible)


    Edit: Maps removed due to new version update.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  5. sonofjay

    sonofjay

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    You can hold Rocky Land for now but how do I fix that problem? Anyway, can't wait for In the End. :)
     
  6. bhusta

    bhusta

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    Adding the EU to replace a dummy ability works, but if I remove the engineering upgrade, the effect is also gone. And if I add EU without removing it and then use a morph ability, EU is also removed and the effect as well.

    If I knew how to fix it, I would do it :D
    Haven't seen that before as well.
     
  7. Xonok

    Xonok

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    Try switching around the abilities, so that the effect would instead be applied when you remove EU. You might need to use some dummy abilities on the unit to make it happen.
     
  8. bhusta

    bhusta

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    Wow I could get it to work. I am so happy right now, because I struggled with it nearly two months.

    This is how it works:

    • Hero has a dummy hero ability A
    • Hero gets an EU ability B that replaces dummy ability A with the ability you want to have in the end (C)
    • Hero gets another EU ability D which replaces ability C with another dummy ability E
    • Remove ability B
    • Remove ability D
    • et voilà, only the ability C is left, fully operational and skillable

    Thank you so much Xonok.
    This means I'll rework the whole skill system for version 0.3.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  9. Xonok

    Xonok

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    It might even be possible to do it with less steps.

    Refer to the ability guide for more precise instructions on how it's supposed to work.

    Atm I am not willing to test those things myself, but maybe the success streak will keep going.
     
  10. bhusta

    bhusta

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    I got everything to work. One trains the heroes directly and one can skill the abilities directly as well. I even created every ability for the hotkeys Q W E R. It feels so much better now.

    Version 0.3 will be a great update.
     
  11. Xonok

    Xonok

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    I'll be waiting to try it out.
    Also, maybe there could optionally be new selectable abilities too at some point.
     
  12. Daffa the Mage

    Daffa the Mage

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    @bhusta, I'll play it when I can (schools begins tomorrow). Thanks a lot!
     
  13. bhusta

    bhusta

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    During multiplayer testing of version 0.3, we had the problem that our abilities were mixed up due to me using a wrong index. Also the new way how I add abilities, caused a lag at the first spawn of each hero. I could solve both problems.

    So, version 0.3a will come very soon. The only goal left for this version is the transformed map "In the End" by sonofjay.
     
  14. bhusta

    bhusta

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    I got a lot of feedback yesterday by playtesting the version 0.3a and we encountered several bugs which are totally new to me again ...
    But today, I will do some hotfixes so that I've got a stable version again and then I release the new version.
    I already have so many points for version 0.4 again ^^
     
  15. bhusta

    bhusta

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  16. Xonok

    Xonok

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    Tried the new version(0.3a) and it looks better.
    A few more things:
    *The picks are too fast to think even with a previously thought out set of abilities. I wish there was a way to freely pick abilities but without the stressful timing.
    *The order of abilities seems random, even though the abilities are the same. What's with that?
     
  17. bhusta

    bhusta

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    Thank you.

    *The pick time is 6 seconds at the moment. I don't think the project would benefit from a longer pick time.
    The pick time of Dota 2 is 5 seconds so it is already a little bit longer.
    The problem is, if you have a full house game there are "4 Players x 3 Heroes x 4 Abilities x 6 seconds" = 4.8 Minutes.
    Every additional seconds increases the wait time a lot.
    In Dota 2 there are less heroes overall but there are 10 seconds breaks between each pick cycle.
    I don't want people to wait too long for the actual game.
    For the single player mode I could remove pick time at all.
    Maybe I could change the way the counter counts works.
    I could increase the pick time to 7 seconds and if there are more then 3 seconds left for picking then it sets the counter to 3 seconds left.

    *What do you mean with the order? Heroes get the abilities in the order which they are picked and so are the hotkeys Q W E R (I admit I have to change the tooltips for that.)
    Or do you mean the abilities from the pick pool? I shuffled all abilities and put them into the limited pick pool. Because there are no 100 standard heroes like in dota, the pick table could look similar from time to time that's true.

    @all: I would be really happy if you send me replays of multiplayer matches.
    I discovered so many bugs and improveable points during multiplayer matches, it is insane.
     
  18. Xonok

    Xonok

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    Okay, this clarified things a bit.
    I think it would make sense to have an all pick mode with the full ability pool and allowing duplicates. It wouldn't be draft pick, but it would be a very good alternative mode. This mode would also avoid the long pick time because every player can pick their abilities at the same time.

    An alternative would be being able to vote for pick time in a wide range, because matches with less players can allow longer pick times per player.
     
  19. bhusta

    bhusta

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    You descripe the non-official dota 2 mod Legends of Dota pretty well :D
    In that mod you also have the possibility to pick a fifth ability which is a unit ability.
    It would be a fun addition but it's not on of the things I want to implement before version 1.0.

    The idea behind ability draft is to have a certain random situation where you have to adjust your playstyle while being able to counter spells of your opponent.
    Because of the limited pick pool, the overall gameplay should feel different for every new game.
    This is the type of game I really like. Technically I should implement some kind of draft for the units and buildings but I don't think this will happen anytime soon.
    Possible stuff which is easy to implement is something like randomizing creep camps and mercanaries. But I will only implement that, if it is wanted.

    The pick pool consits of 39 normal abilities and 13 ultimates due to having 12 hereos during a full house game.
    I did not add one more set of abilities because this is also made in the dota 2 map rather than making certain abilities not possible to pick together on the same hero as Chemical Rage and Robo

    Goblin, which just bug if they are used together.
    Overall there are 72 normal abilities and 24 ultimates. I will make Robo Goblin and Engineering Upgrade available for verion 0.4.

    Sure, I think I will implement it. Maybe not for the next update but for the following one.

    At the moment I have so many points for the next update that I don't know where to start :D
    But that shouldn't hinder people to report more points :)
     
  20. bhusta

    bhusta

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    Finished nearly everything I wanted to do for version 0.4.
    All abilities work now and will be available. I only have to adjust the preload and some minor fixes.

    Any standard melee map wishes?
    (At the moment I encounter strange bugs if I use an altered melee map.
    So, I can transform only maps without custom material.)